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Guinness posted:The definition of "reliable" has enormously changed in the past few decades. In the 1970s getting a car to 100-150k miles was an achievement. Now there are many cars on the market that aren't even due for their first major service interval until nearly 100k miles. Thanks, I didn't realize this. Really all you hear these days is "they don't make em like they used to! It's all plastic crap today!" Really I'd be happy if it lasted me 10 years before becoming too expensive to keep, and it sounds like that's not a feat if I keep putting low miles on it.
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Feb 6, 2013 23:31
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It's also worth noting that freeway miles put less wear and tear on a car than stop-and-go/in-town driving. So a car with 80k freeway miles could easily be in generally better mechanical condition than the same car with 40k city miles.
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Feb 7, 2013 01:13
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Wax Dynasty posted:What should I know about third-party car leasing companies (I'm not even sure if this is the right name)? I mean a company that's not a dealership that will find and arrange a lease on pretty much any make and model. Examples here in the DFW area include Autoflex and D&M Leasing. Although my current car is (barely) holding up, it's old enough that nearly any serious repair is going to be more than the car's worth. And due to uncertainty about my job situation and where I'll be living next year, should I need a replacement vehicle I'd prefer to get a two-year lease on a new(ish) vehicle rather than buy used or lease for a longer period. After some test drives I find myself really liking the Mazda 3, but the problem is that my local Mazda dealership won't offer a two-year lease (admittedly, I haven't called around to other shops). Would it be stupid to go through a place like Autoflex to get a two-year lease? Stay far, far, far faaaaar away.
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Feb 7, 2013 01:42
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wa27 posted:Thanks, I didn't realize this. Really all you hear these days is "they don't make em like they used to! It's all plastic crap today!" Really I'd be happy if it lasted me 10 years before becoming too expensive to keep, and it sounds like that's not a feat if I keep putting low miles on it. People who complain about that fall in to two groups: curmudgeons who are terrible idiots, and people who like to turn their own wrenches. For the vast majority of people, cars are more reliable than ever before, probably up to the quarter million mile mark. Most consumers dispose of their vehicle far in advance of that, typically as soon as it needs major drivetrain service, and that point is farther off than ever before. However, for the enthusiast who likes to work on cars, new cars are a nightmare. But if you're not turning your own wrench, basically every single car you can buy today in the United States is safer and more reliable than anything you could buy 20 years ago.
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Feb 7, 2013 01:45
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wa27 posted:The latest car I've been eyeing is a 2008 Mazda3 GT with a ton of options (GPS and Bose sound system, in addition to the standard GT options). Not really stuff I need, but cars with loaded options do appeal to me. And I do at least need the touring trim level for the cruise control. I haven't had a chance to drive it because it's out of town. 83k miles is the tipping point to high mileage. It's not high mileage now, but when you get rid of it, it will be. You drove your last car into the ground (190k miles), it is worth very little now. You don't care to do that again, but if you buy this car at 83k, put 4 years in it (with avg 12,000mi/yr), it'll have 131k - still some life left in it, but there are not many people in the market for a car with that many miles. i.e. it'll be worth almost nothing. If you buy a car in the 40k range and put 4 years in it, it'll have 88k miles - you can sell it to some schmuck for ~$11k.
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Feb 7, 2013 09:00
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photomikey posted:In the used market, the value of "a ton of options" is low and gets lower as a vehicle gets older - which is to say that I always look for a used car that is decked out, because it's $250 or $500 more than a car with AM/FM/cassete. So you're on the right track there. Well I certainly would like to have it for more than four years, but I only expect to put about 7k/yr on it. Obviously things could change, but I think it's likely that I keep putting low miles on it. I figure the depreciation works a little differently in that case because the car will be older by the time I get it to 130k. Thanks for the input, though. I'll do some in-depth calculations of resale value tonight for some of my options. I'm not just trying to talk myself into it! 
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Feb 7, 2013 15:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:People who complain about that fall in to two groups: curmudgeons who are terrible idiots, and people who like to turn their own wrenches. For the vast majority of people, cars are more reliable than ever before, probably up to the quarter million mile mark. Most consumers dispose of their vehicle far in advance of that, typically as soon as it needs major drivetrain service, and that point is farther off than ever before. Speaking of the latter group, are newer cars (2007 and newer) all harder to do your own repair work on? I'm still driving a small mid-90s Ford Escort, and I've done enough stuff like change out the master cylinder, new CV axles, shocks and the like to enjoy it. I'd like to know if that kind of stuff is possible with any of the newer cars?
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Feb 7, 2013 18:53
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Newer cars aren't that bad to work on if you aren't tearing deep into the engine. Modern engine bays are more cramped than the old days, but it's still all mostly the same parts. And suspension and brakes and all that pretty much work the same unless you have something like an S-Class with magnetic shocks filled with voodoo. Plus modern cars practically diagnose themselves when it comes to engine problems, which are also few and far between compared to cars from before the 90s. Curmudgeons and luddites just like to complain about everything new. The only real legitimate gripe they might have is that new cars are loaded with electrical gizmos and controllers, which are a pain in the rear end to troubleshoot if they start fritzing out. But unless you have a Volkswagen or a Land Rover you shouldn't have too many electrical nightmares, and all those sensors and computers keep things more reliable, more efficient, and easier to troubleshoot (by pulling codes). Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 7, 2013 |
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Feb 7, 2013 19:03
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The real problem with working on anything modern is indeed the electronics. The issue is that there are a lot of computers / electronic modules in cars that can fail, which can have implications anywhere from a dead radio to a failed airbag system to a poorly-running engine; but only the engine computer has to have a standardized communication system with the outside world (OBD II). OBD II readers are now cheap and commonly available, so it's easier for the shadetree mechanic to work on an issue that can be diagnosed via OBD; but if I get an airbag light or a stability control light in my MS3, I can't do anything to even diagnose it. I can't even unplug the accelerometer in my MS3 to rule out a flaky connection without a Mazda diagnostic computer to recalibrate it once I plug the part back in. But the counterpoint is that overall, the car is damned reliable. Not counting wear items, I've had a relatively limited number of issues on my car, and most of them are related to the fact that I opted for the low-production high-performance model, not the volume seller. I've put just short of 100k on it in just under four years and it's only ever had two repairs that required more than a day to fix, one of which was under warranty and only took that long because the dealer was throwing parts at it instead of diagnosing the real problem.
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Feb 7, 2013 20:26
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Yeah, note that my "hard to work on" was specifically in terms of around the engine repairs. There's more electronic stuff around the wheel these days, but everything you posted about doing is still doable on modern cars.
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Feb 8, 2013 00:13
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Guinness posted:Curmudgeons and luddites just like to complain about everything new. The only real legitimate gripe they might have is that new cars are loaded with electrical gizmos and controllers, which are a pain in the rear end to troubleshoot if they start fritzing out. But unless you have a Volkswagen or a Land Rover you shouldn't have too many electrical nightmares, and all those sensors and computers keep things more reliable, more efficient, and easier to troubleshoot (by pulling codes). What is with the 'hate' for VW around here? Can someone divulge the secret because I have found (through internet research) that VWs aren't any less reliable than other cars. What gives? Edit: Also, I just got my first paycheck from my new job and I have narrowed my choices down to three that I want to drive this weekend: 2010 VW Golf (45k miles), 2011 Hyundai Elantra (38k) and 2009 Honda Civic EX(38k). Any strong feelings for or against any of these? About a month ago I posted that I'm replacing a stolen 1997 Honda Civic. MickeyFinn fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 8, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 02:46
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German cars, even German cars made in Mexico, have higher repair costs on average than their domestic and Japanese counterparts. Couple this with VW's absolutely god awful A4 platform (Mk4 Jettas, Golfs, etc), and you have stuff like your window regulator making GBS threads out on you on a somewhat frequent business and the part alone costs $170. VW's Mk5 and Mk6 cars definitely have improved reliability over their 2000s era cars; however, for more than a few years VW was near the bottom of the JD Power Associates reliability index while simultaneously being near the top of the JD Power Associates customer satisfaction list. It was kind of obvious to draw the conclusion that VW owners are really enthusiastic about their unreliable cars.
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Feb 8, 2013 03:57
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MickeyFinn posted:What is with the 'hate' for VW around here? Can someone divulge the secret because I have found (through internet research) that VWs aren't any less reliable than other cars. What gives? We bought a 1993 VW Golf for like $6k a good few years back. In the 2 years we owned it we spent $8k on fixing the loving thing. gently caress VW.
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Feb 8, 2013 06:27
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Oh by the way do not buy the Beetle because the window regulators come pre-broken from the factory. They desynchronize and nobody knows what's actually wrong (though there is a simple temporary reset).
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Feb 8, 2013 14:14
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I have a few grand burning a hole in my pocket, and I already have 3 cars. Should I buy a 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano for $1600 or open a Roth IRA? Help me, AI/BFC!
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Feb 8, 2013 15:44
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Do you need to drive to places? Do any of the other 3 cars run? If so then yes buy the Alfa.
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Feb 8, 2013 15:48
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Phone posted:It was kind of obvious to draw the conclusion that VW owners are really enthusiastic about their unreliable cars. This is absolutely my dad and he is absolutely in complete denial about having had to spend more than 100% of the cost of his 1998 Passat wagon in repairs. Meanwhile he also spent $15000 on a restored 1936 canoe.
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Feb 8, 2013 18:08
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Proposed Budget: up to $6000, possibly more if there's great deals within an extra couple of thousand. Will be purchasing from a dealership to get financing. New or Used: Used Body Style: 4 door preferable, hatchback preferable How will you be using the car?: Hauling lots of music equipment around; daily driver What aspects are most important to you? Reliability and low cost of ownership. I don't want poo poo that's going to break down. A 5-speed would be nice but isn't necessary. From what I've seen, a good contender is a mid-2000s Hyundai Elantra GT. Should I be looking at any other cars that are similar?
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Feb 8, 2013 20:38
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moana posted:Proposed Budget: up to $6000, possibly more if there's great deals within an extra couple of thousand. Will be purchasing from a dealership to get financing. Assuming this is for you BF right? Strongly suggest looking at a Pontiac Vibe. Re-badged Toyota Matrix, so the Toyota quality is there, but dead brand so discount is there too. Very versatile vehicle.
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Feb 8, 2013 20:44
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skipdogg posted:Assuming this is for you BF right? Strongly suggest looking at a Pontiac Vibe. Also, since I'm terrible at this whole car buying thing: Would you say it's better to have a later year or fewer miles? Here are some options I don't have a clue how to compare, for example: - 03 Vibe with 115k miles for $5500 - 07 Vibe with 137k miles for $6995 - 03 Matrix with 92k miles for $7000 - 05 Matrix with 140k miles for $5500
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Feb 8, 2013 21:22
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Don't forget that you never pay dealer list prices on used vehicles. I'd pick out something being offered at $7k and offer $5k, and be willing to get negotiated up to $5800. e. I'd also go with a later year rather than fewer miles, on the assumption that a car that did 20k miles a year was probably mostly driven freeway miles, compared to one that did 10k miles/year for more years. That's as a general principle, though: the actual specifics of an individual car outweigh it. E.g., evaluate each car's condition and prefer the car in best condition. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 8, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 22:28
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See if you can find a Honda Fit. The back seats fold down flat, which makes it ideal for a fuel-efficent hauler.
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Feb 8, 2013 23:21
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Your budget is going to put you in the 100K mile territory on used cars. The used car market is crazy right now. A friend just sold a beat to poo poo Honda Civic with unknown mileage, a shredded interior and multiple body panel issues for 2500 cash. I don't mind mileage on vehicles as long as there is some kind of service record. I drive almost 30K miles a year but every 2 months I get an oil change and tire rotation. I follow service guidelines on the rest of it, and I'm expecting this car to get me to 200K miles pretty easily.
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Feb 9, 2013 00:10
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skipdogg posted:Your budget is going to put you in the 100K mile territory on used cars. The used car market is crazy right now.
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Feb 9, 2013 00:25
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Leperflesh posted:Don't forget that you never pay dealer list prices on used vehicles. I'd pick out something being offered at $7k and offer $5k, and be willing to get negotiated up to $5800. One caveat - find the scheduled maintenance cycles for the car. If 120K is a huge service, I'd rather pay for a car with 137K miles than one with 115K miles, assuming roughly equal prices.
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Feb 9, 2013 00:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:One caveat - find the scheduled maintenance cycles for the car. If 120K is a huge service, I'd rather pay for a car with 137K miles than one with 115K miles, assuming roughly equal prices. You're making the assumption that the car with 137k has received said maintenance, which is not always the case. moana: At least around here you save a nice chunk of change if you can manage to get a bank to give you a check to buy a car private-party, since you lose sales tax (no idea how this works in other states, though). Also, if you're willing to stretch the budget to $8-10k, I would still look at used versus new. The only cars on the market new at $12k or less are stripper-model subcompacts. Even the thread-favorite Mazda3 officially starts at $20k new, though you can get a couple grand off if you find a 2012 still on a lot.
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Feb 9, 2013 01:06
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I am the worlds worst negotiator when it comes to, well, pretty much anything. And now I'm in the market for a used car, although possibly new-ish (last years model 'new', or <10k on it). What's the rough ball park on wiggle room? Obviously every single car is different, but 10-20% seem right when I go in to lowball on a used car?
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Feb 11, 2013 20:34
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I ended up buying the 08 Mazda3 with 83k miles I asked about earlier in the thread. Haven't found a single thing wrong with it except for a couple scratches on the fender. Hard to believe it has that many miles on it; they did a great job detailing. I couldn't be happier, thanks for the advice everyone gave!
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Feb 11, 2013 20:44
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Update: thanks for the advice everybody, it made me feel a lot more confident looking through listings. We went in to test drive some of the options, but the newer cars like the Matrix really drove like most new cars - lovely pickup and handling, and they were all $1-3k more expensive. The Elantras on the other hand drive like cars from the 90s, something I dearly miss after trading in my old civic. We ended up looking through craigslist since none of the dealerships had any good deals on Elantras. We're leaning heavily towards an 02 Elantra GT hatchback that has less than 100k miles on it, single-owner for $4700. It drove well and I think that's a reasonable price but will probably end up offering a few hundred less. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the advice and I will let you know if it falls apart within the month
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Feb 11, 2013 20:57
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JosephStalinVEVO posted:I am the worlds worst negotiator when it comes to, well, pretty much anything. And now I'm in the market for a used car, although possibly new-ish (last years model 'new', or <10k on it). Well, it really does depend on the car. I'm assuming you're talking about dealerships here. You will have the most "wiggle-room" on a car which A) they bought for cheap, and/or B) has been sitting on their lot for too long. In either of these circumstances, you have leverage to use. There is a third option C) which is that the sales guy really really wants to make a sale immediately... that can happen at the end of the month, when he's trying to meet a quota or earn a bonus based on how many unit sales he makes in the month. So to have maximum leverage at a dealership, shop for relatively common or relatively unpopular vehicles (which doesn't mean "bad" vehicles; just, anything which might sit on the lot for longer, such as a less-popular color, option combination, trim level, or whatever), at the end of the month, and assume the dealer got a great price on trade-in and therefore has a lot of room to negotiate. Just remember that all they can do is decline your offer or make a counter-offer. Don't worry about insulting someone. In fact, assume that 90% of the people who buy cars from dealerships get completely raped on the price, and the staff will actually respect you as a person more because you're not a typical sucker. Having said all that, I think an opening offer on a used car at a dealership should always be at least 10% less than they're asking. I'd usually start lower than that: 20% or more, on the assumption that after haggling we'll wind up with at least 10% off the list price. But that comes with the assumption that the list price was reasonable to begin with. You need to do your research and find out what a given car is actually worth before you make an offer. Some deals on the lot are already reasonably priced, and some are hilariously over-priced, and unless you've memorized the value of every car at every year and every mileage level and every condition, you just don't know if the sticker price is reasonable until you look it up. For me, that means I would never buy a car on the first visit to the lot. Instead I'd write down a few cars I'm interested in, the sticker price, and be absolutely clear to the sales person that I'm not buying today but if I see something I like, I'll be back. In the past I've shopped on my own but used my wife as my excuse: "Yeah this car is OK, I might go for it, but I have to run it past the wife first." I also (and without lying) tell them I'm looking at some other options too. "I've found a couple cars on craigslist I'm looking at, and also a couple other dealerships. I want to explore my options." Don't fall for lines like "what would it take to get you into this car today". That's a lead-in to them negotiating a discount off the sticker that you could have gotten anyway. Also, if you have a trade-in, do not mention it until you have an agreed-upon price for the car. Your trade-in value needs to come off of that final price, not be built-in. If a sales person asks you if you have a trade-in before you have a nailed-down price, tell them "well, maybe, but I might just buy the car straight-up. We can talk about it later." Refuse to discuss what car you're considering trading in, or its condition, or (especially) its value. You should also know, before you show up, what the trade-in value is, of course. IF you are talking about private-party sales, there's no rule of thumb. There' no rule at all. Many cars will be hideously overvalued. Others will be priced right, and a few will be bargains. Some sellers assume they'll be negotiating down, and some will be insulted by the mere suggestion that their price is negotiable - you're privileged to even have the option to pay their asking price, in their opinion. So it's entirely case-by-case. In all cases, though, and as an overriding rule, you should never pay more than what you're comfortable paying, for that car. It doesn't ultimately matter what other people think that car is worth: what matters is, what is it worth to you. If a car is going for $8k but to you it's only worth $6k, don't pay a dime over $6k. That might mean you can't buy that car, but that's OK: it's better to not buy it, than to pay more than what you're comfortable with for that car. On the other hand, it might be that a car normally priced at $4k is worth twice that to you, because it's the car you desperately want. In that case, feel free to find the best possible example, negotiate as best you can, but perhaps pay a premium because you're just not willing to walk away. That's OK too. I feel this is the ultimate key to negotiation. Know what the going price is, know what your other options are, be polite but firm, and in the end, be completely willing and happy to walk away if you can't get the price you want. e. Oh, I forgot to mention another thing: take your time. The less time you spend, the more you'll pay, almost as a rule. If you desperately need a car this weekend, go rent one. Sure it'll cost you some money, but odds are good you'll save a lot more than the cost of the rental, if you take the necessary time to filter out all the cars that are near-misses (a little above your price range, a little below your quality standard, a little bit too poor condition, not quite the right year/make/model you wanted, not the color you wanted, not the options you wanted, etc.) and wind up with just the right car. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Feb 11, 2013 |
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Feb 11, 2013 22:53
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Proposed Budget: Pay off in less than 4 years on 30k/yr New or Used: New Body Style: 4 door sedan, non-compact. How will you be using the car?: Basic around town driving, comfortably sitting four adults, driving once to twice a month for 3-6 hours for trip to Atlanta, prefer luxury with gizmos. What aspects are most important to you?: Hybrid, Driver and passenger comfort. I'm going to be starting a new job on salary for about 30k/yr. I currently have no vehicle and I want to have a nice one. I have no bills or debt. I want to get a hybrid as I really enjoy the fuel economy. My only problem is that the only ones I've been in, two older model Prius, were not very comfortable with even two large adults in them. I've been looking options from Lexus and Lincoln, but I haven't really found any cost of ownership on their 2013 models. The two exact models I am interested in are the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid and the Lexus 300h. I like the luxury options of the Lincoln and the higher fuel economy. They're priced almost the same with the way I configured them. I guess my biggest thing is reliability and cost of ownership. SlayVus fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Feb 11, 2013 |
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Feb 11, 2013 23:12
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JosephStalinVEVO posted:I am the worlds worst negotiator when it comes to, well, pretty much anything. And now I'm in the market for a used car, although possibly new-ish (last years model 'new', or <10k on it). I once went to look at a used Buell motorcycle at a Harley dealership. Sticker price was $2k. I went in with the idea that if I could get out the door at $2k including sales taxes, fees, etc. then all would be well. The bottom line of the first invoice they brought me was for $3600, which included crap like a "pre-owned inspection" and over $400 in title/documentation/registration/transfer fees. I politely told them to go to hell. The point is, don't get sweet on the salesman if they "cut you a deal" on the sticker price, because they may be planning on making up the difference by trying to bone you with rubbish fees. Turns out it was a good thing. I almost bought a Buell! 
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Feb 11, 2013 23:54
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SlayVus posted:Proposed Budget: Pay off in less than 4 years on 30k/yr Those models are going to make you very car poor on 30k/yr, which is not much. You should be looking at something more in the Civic price range.
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Feb 11, 2013 23:56
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SlayVus posted:Proposed Budget: Pay off in less than 4 years on 30k/yr Because this is BFC, I'm going to say that it would be a very poor personal finance decision to purchase a new car for more than a year's salary. In fact, I think it's crazy to spend more than maybe ~40% of a years salary at the very extreme on a car, and that's assuming you're willing to make cuts in other places because you really want that car. The Prius might be your best bet if you want a new car that's not compact, and only because they hold resale value like crazy. Really though, on $30k gross I would be careful about being so willing to take on debt. Buying a either of the two cars you mentioned would have you putting more than 1/3 of your gross income to your car payment alone, which is absolutely insane.
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Feb 12, 2013 00:09
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SlayVus posted:I'm going to be starting a new job on salary for about 30k/yr. I currently have no vehicle and I want to have a nice one. I have no bills or debt.
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Feb 12, 2013 00:37
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Is carfinder legit and useful? I'm not in a huge rush to buy a used car, and just getting something practical and cost-effective like a 2010 Camry or Accord. Can I just enter a relatively low price setting on carfinder.com and just wait for suitors? Or is the site just a horrible marketing ploy to get dealers my personal information?
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Feb 12, 2013 01:31
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moana posted:I made 50% more than you when I was a high school teacher; have you looked at the cars in a high school teacher parking lot? You're acting like it's totally okay to spend your entire year's salary on a car. Is this your first job ever or something? Trust me, you don't want to be in debt for such a stupidly depreciating item as a luxury vehicle. If you don't have any bills (any? you're living with your parents?) then save up for a year and buy your car then. Ideally take out the money from your bank so you have to physically hand over an armful of hundred dollar bills to see how ridiculous a decision you're making. SlayVus, pay attention to this. Personally, I've always been of the opinion that buying a car brand new is an extravagant waste of money. If you're sitting on gobs of cash, of course, do what you like, but the majority of people are better served buying a carefully-researched used vehicle. (Of course the flaw in my logic is that as soon as everyone actually listens to me the supply of used cars with shrink too much.) I spent $3k on my last car, a Subaru with high mileage but in great shape; I've put near to 80,000 miles on it since, and only spent about $1k in repairs beyond the usual maintenance (fluids/filters/tires/brakes/etc.). I'll drive it until it dies and then buy another decent used car (the one I had before this cost me $2k and got me 50,000 miles). A $30k car would have to get me 600,000 miles without any expensive repairs to match that (and my insurance costs would be higher to boot). Why buy new unless you have the money to throw away?
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Feb 12, 2013 07:00
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moana posted:I made 50% more than you when I was a high school teacher; have you looked at the cars in a high school teacher parking lot? You're acting like it's totally okay to spend your entire year's salary on a car. Is this your first job ever or something? Trust me, you don't want to be in debt for such a stupidly depreciating item as a luxury vehicle. If you don't have any bills (any? you're living with your parents?) then save up for a year and buy your car then. Ideally take out the money from your bank so you have to physically hand over an armful of hundred dollar bills to see how ridiculous a decision you're making. Not to mention that if you roll up to your first day of school in a new Lexus, your fellow teachers are going to judge the poo poo out of you. Also, going by my buddy's car, if you teach in rougher areas your car's going to get vandalized to poo poo. Yes, they did etch "Mr. _______'s car" into it. He nows drives a Mazda 3 because that is what makes sense (he also makes about double what you do in a fairly low COL area). Get like a used mid-sized car (Or hell, smaller, are you really going to be putting 4 adults in the car that often? I'm 6'4" and fairly fat and I fit in a drat fiat 500). I make more than twice what you will be making and I won't be darkening a Lexus dealer's door any time soon. $30k doesn't go that far and it will be better to realize that when you're not making $500+/mo payments for years. Oh and if you finance a car beyond the B2B warranty period, I'm going to laugh at you when poo poo breaks when you're still making payments. Bonus if you're still upside down. nm fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 07:52
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Choadmaster posted:SlayVus, pay attention to this. Right now the used car market is so hosed that it's not too bad to go new at this point if you're looking at say, gently used Mazda3s vs new.
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Feb 13, 2013 01:48
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 16:04 |
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Thank you for this! I shopped around and hit up all of my banks/credit card places and was approved everywhere for an auto loan. I got a 3.54% rate, which for my somewhat checkered credit history seems pretty good. Do I say I'm paying in cash or how does that work? My previous 2 cars were financed through the car place (VW and BMW financial services, 2.9 and 6.9% respectively, years ago).
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Feb 13, 2013 03:18
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