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Bellmaker posted:Never played Frontier 1, but Frontier 2 had a great story and worldbuilding (if you like political shenangians), albeit the same opaque bullshit gameplay. Also the final boss is a kick in the eggs Frontier 1 is great, if just for the fact that it straight up lets you play as a sentai hero, complete with your own unique theme music, special attacks, weapons, and all that. The mechanics behind everything are dense as poo poo, to the point of being flat-out obtuse, but drat if the game doesn't have style at times, like finishing off a boss with a long combo attack string that does five digit damage. I just wish they'd actually had the chance to finish the bloody game instead of leaving it half finished and putting everything they were planning on doing into a Japan-only resource book. 
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Feb 10, 2013 06:57
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Every SaGa game is amazing (in its own way) and I will agree to nothing less. That being said, I haven't actually brought myself to play Unlimited SaGa yet. victrix posted:Saga games are annoying because they present intriguing worlds and interesting gameplay mechanics Also, this is true.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:01
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I once played SaGa Frontier years ago. I started out as this bard dude and had no idea where to go so I went somewhere and the monsters there killed me in one hit. So then I picked the Sentai dude and sort of got a little bit farther until I reached an area where the monsters killed me in one hit. And then I sold the game to a friend. After that a friend of mine showed me his copy of Unlimited SaGa which he bought because of the Final Fantasy X-2 preview it had. I played some little girl witch with a terrible voice and then got to some sort of board game which was supposed to be a dungeon and then there were slot machines, and I didn't even finish the battle, I just turned off the system. I really have no idea how anyone plays those games.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:07
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I wish Square would make a whole game based around the T260G part. I want to play a whole game where my party is a drunk swordsman and his four sweet robo-pals.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:16
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S-Alpha posted:Frontier 1 is great, if just for the fact that it straight up lets you play as a sentai hero, complete with your own unique theme music, special attacks, weapons, and all that. Hey, Wild Arms 2 let you do that too.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:20
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The problem with Saga isn't even the complexity so much as that a lot of the "unique" or "experimental" mechanics are just infuriating. They love things like limited-use weapons you can't buy more of and the really infamous "sparking" system for learning techs from like RS1-3 and SF1, which comes largely down to dumb luck and RNG even when you do understand it.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:20
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Ross posted:Final Fantasy Legend II (which is SaGa 2 I think) is a fantastic game, not just a great GameBoy RPG but a great RPG period. The first one's not bad either but not nearly as good. The first game had plenty of issues. Humans had to use items to get strong, and it was more cost-effective to buy the basic hp 200(?) item and use tons of themfor 1hp gains over buying the higher 'cap' ones. And in the time you spend getting money to do all this, your Mutant party member(s) will have similar or better stats because they don't need items. Shame they fixed Punch in SaGa 2. It'd have been kind of fun to play through super punching everything. E: But Rocks Hurt Head posted:That being said, the best SaGa game is probably The Last Remnant (on PC). I'm pretty sure meant Worst, because Last Remnant is a loving terrible game. 
Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 07:26
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ImpAtom posted:Hey, Wild Arms 2 let you do that too. I've only just gotten around to playing that in the last month.  You are right, though, it does own. But I like the whole thing they did with Alkaiser in that the game actually had a mechanic around protecting your secret identity, which was cool.And despite its more infuriating aspects, I actually liked the Sparking mechanic. It does pretty much exemplify the whole 'obtuse as poo poo' side of the SaGa games though.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:35
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Shaezerus posted:Sol, in his base stats, is a slightly faster, slightly less tanky Aigis - I think they even get the same Strength boost. He's great as a Dragoon and if you're set on keeping Aigis as a Paladin, is best-suited for Final Heaven spamming simply for the Speed difference between the two. It also makes him an okay backup healer, only really limited by a meager MP pool - White Wind and Full Cure aren't affected by Mind (which is the lowest Dragoon stat), and should be easy enough to get since the former is "on the way" to Final Heaven and the latter only needs a L1 White Mage/Seer if you master Dragoon. Well shoot, I've already got him to JLv19 as a Red Mage. Trying to think of the best way to salvage his build at this point, as I'm obsessive about keeping the main character in the party. So far I've got: Sol: Red Mage 19 Sarah: White Mage 20 Aigis: Dragoon 18 Dusk: Black Mage 20 Nacht: Ranger 18 Diana: White Mage 20 Alba: Black Mage 20 Glaive: Monk 20 The way I see it, Sol's options are: 1. Go Seer, either be the main party healer or a backup healer while Dualcasting Holy at everything when he's free. 2. Go Paladin and play with Holy Blade and Magic Blade while Aigis goes into, I dunno, Warrior or something. 3. Go Black Mage, and dualcast high level black magic at people with impunity.
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Feb 10, 2013 07:54
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Jjust make Sol in to a Seer and set Alba to mastering Red Mage and then make her a Magus. Sol as a black mage won't be worth using in the end and lack of level 8 black magic means that any Dark Warrior is instantly a better black mage than Sol or any of the Light warriors could hope to be. Alba doing single casts of Meteor will likely out perform Sol dualcasting Flare. Alba dualcasting meteor will out perform almost anything else vs single targets. Especially if she has the black mage's damage buff equipped in addition to dualcast once 4 slots are available. Having Aigis get up to 14 or so in Warrior would also let him get Mighty Wall once he's leveled enough as a paladin. This means a party-wide +atk/pdef/mdef buff (for 96mp or so) and having him just attack afterwards with the doublehand ability while a pair of Dark Warriors use rapid fire/phantom rush backed up by a dualcasting Seer and dualcasting Magus will make short work of pretty much anything. One thing I don't get is why Ultima is such a let down. Only use I've ever seen for it is against 4 enemies and even then, meteor works just fine.
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Feb 10, 2013 08:04
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There are people that liked and played through Saga Frontier 2? I gave that game an honest shot on a couple occasions and left it bewildered every time. I've finished plotlines on the first game, ran into difficulty walls on the other characters, and look forward to sitting down with it and a detailed FAQ in the future. But the second game just seemed like a big mess.
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Feb 10, 2013 08:14
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:There are people that liked and played through Saga Frontier 2? I gave that game an honest shot on a couple occasions and left it bewildered every time. I've finished plotlines on the first game, ran into difficulty walls on the other characters, and look forward to sitting down with it and a detailed FAQ in the future. But the second game just seemed like a big mess. There's somebody who liked and played through everything. Everything. But yeah, Saga Frontier 2 is absolutely loving batshit. The story is batshit (as soon as you diverge from Gustav), the game mechanics are batshit, and it has one of the most wildly uneven difficulty curves of any game I've ever played. To be honest, I think my favorite Saga game is still Romancing Saga 3, which is probably the most pedestrian answer. The mechanics are really honed, perfected versions of prior RS mechanics, some of the characters are rad, and the spritework is amazing (and reminiscent of FF6). It's one of only two games I own a physical Super Famicom cartridge for. And I still wouldn't call it a great game.
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Feb 10, 2013 08:41
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ImpAtom posted:Hey, Wild Arms 2 let you do that too. also you can scroll the cursor off the bottom of the name entry screen and input hiraganas, but only like three different ones that aren't even incorporated in Japanese orthography. I dunno how the gently caress that happened Pyroxene Stigma posted:There are people that liked and played through Saga Frontier 2? I gave that game an honest shot on a couple occasions and left it bewildered every time. I've finished plotlines on the first game, ran into difficulty walls on the other characters, and look forward to sitting down with it and a detailed FAQ in the future. But the second game just seemed like a big mess. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 08:41
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ProfessorProf posted:The way I see it, Sol's options are: Sol makes a pretty good Paladin, his slight Speed edge over Aigis can mean a fair bit with extra stacking and Haste. Magic Blade also owns bones; the [Element] Sword skills deal 1.5x physical damage and work with not only the Two-Handed skill and Doublecast, but with any weapon as well, making just about any melee Job capable of wrecking house with it. I did both Magic Sword+Two-Handed and Magic Sword+Doublecast with Aigis during my first run of the game and he was easily my biggest damage-dealer in the Warriors of Light up until I unlocked Final Heaven (which put Sol on level with him). As for making Sol a Dualcast Seer, I haven't tried it but it has potential uses, so long as you're able to chuck ethers at the guy every so often. With enough Mind stacking Curaga can generate some great healing even cast just once, which frees him up to wing a Holy as his second spell for offensive support. The downside to this is it costs nearly 80 MP a turn, but it's still more efficient than Phoenix (though whether or not it's faster I'm not sure). Light Warrior Black Mages have no place in the party after both groups reunite, as Magus is superior in every relevant way. (The same goes for Dark Warrior White Mages versus Seers.) Keep in mind that there's really no reason to not double up on beatstickery if needed. While Paladin has ungodly amounts of tankiness it can beat faces with the best of 'em, so going the same route for both Sol and Aigis is a totally valid strategy. For what it's worth, until postgame my first run's party was Sol (Paladin/Battle Arts), Aigis (Paladin/Magic Sword), Nacht (Ninja/Dark Blade), Dusk (Seer/Mental Discipline), Alba (Magus/Dualcast). The White Dragon posted:WA2 really needs a fan retranslation. I don't understand how Tales of Phantasia, basically unplayable in the latter half as it was, got, like, five of them--including the PSX port--while WA2 is sitting in "A third of this game is really clever, a third of it feels like an eight-year-old localized it, and the last third is literal gibberish" limbo. A retranslated Wild ARMs 2 would be amazing, if only to see how the blue gently caress they can make sense of the endgame's story. I love that game so much but it is almost painful to play anymore. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 08:42
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Thematically I like Sol as a Paladin better than as a Seer, so I'm inclined to go with that, which makes my party... Sol (Red Mage / Paladin) Glaive (Monk / Dancer) Sarah (White Mage / Bard? / Seer) Then some pick of two out of... Aigis (Dragoon / ???) Nacht (Ranger / ???) Alba (Black Mage / Red Mage? / Magus) Sol for dualcasting Magic Blades into people's faces and exploiting elemental vulnerabilities, Glaive for spamming Phantom Rush, Sarah for healing and possibly spamming Lullaby in random encounters. Aigis would be providing backup tanking, Alba primary nuking, and Nacht Doubleshot/QuickShot/Aim:X spam. For backup jobs, maybe Warrior for Aigis or Ninja or Thief for Nacht. Honestly, I think Nacht is the most likely drop from the party, since the role of "Hang out in the back row hurting people a lot" is handled nicely by Alba... although the downside is that it looks like she has two full jobs to master if I want to get the most out of her. It took me like 40 hours of gameplay to master one job for each of these people. Is there an insane amount of AP in the final act, or am I in all likelihood going to finish the game before I finish that build? Man, I really like this job system. It's making me stop and think a lot.
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Feb 10, 2013 08:54
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ProfessorProf posted:Aigis would be providing backup tanking, Alba primary nuking, and Nacht Doubleshot/QuickShot/Aim:X spam. For backup jobs, maybe Warrior for Aigis or Ninja or Thief for Nacht. Honestly, I think Nacht is the most likely drop from the party, since the role of "Hang out in the back row hurting people a lot" is handled nicely by Alba... although the downside is that it looks like she has two full jobs to master if I want to get the most out of her. Nacht makes the best Ninja in the game, since he's got the best Speed boost out of both parties to go on top of the Ninja's already insane Speed stat; give him the Dark Knight's Backliner skill and the Thief's SPD+10% ability and he turns into a straight up death machine because he's getting two turns to everyone else's and is taking less damage by sitting in the back row. Since you're training him up in Ranger he should already have Alchemy as well, which gives him a ton of utility as a backup healer/ether dispensary. Dual Wield also applies to Aim's Spreadshot, which puts the skill above Phantom Rush in raw damage (eight hits versus six, and has nearly half its MP cost). If you don't have Spreadshot yet, Dark Blade is a great Ninja secondary since Dual Wield applies to Darkness, Onyx Wave and Ebony Slash, but only triggers the backlash once - Onyx Wave in particular is nice to have as a crowd-clearer if you don't want to use more of your Magus's MP since you're throwing out a double-damage multitarget attack. Ninja is also the best class to use Final Thrust with if you feel like gambling, since the chargeup is slow as hell on any other Job (it's not affected by Dual Wield though). Ninjutsu can be pretty handy situationally, but I find that outside of the occasional Restorative Pill I don't use it that much because Nacht is either murdering things too fast or has Alchemy and is better off chucking items instead. As for the AP grind, there's a section in the final dungeon that has Movers in it, which drop gobs of AP (100 per for a possible total of 300 each encounter), and the regular encounters there cough up respectable amounts of it as well. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 09:12
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The White Dragon posted:WA2 really needs a fan retranslation. I don't understand how Tales of Phantasia, basically unplayable in the latter half as it was, got, like, five of them--including the PSX port--while WA2 is sitting in "A third of this game is really clever, a third of it feels like an eight-year-old localized it, and the last third is literal gibberish" limbo. Yeah, WA2's translation was amazing in just how incredibly bad it was. It just got increasingly less coherent until the point where your brain eventually substituted other words because there is no way what was written could make sense. I think the problem is just that WA doesn't have a lot of super-dedicated fans or a lot of real pushes towards translation. Every meaningful WA thing got translated (or 'translated' in the case of WA2) and so there's not a lot energy behind an effort to retranslate and patch it because "well, it was translated at least once already." It's the same reason there was never actually a meaningful retranslation of FFVII despite every existing FFVII translation being objectively poo poo. Of course you have people doing awful hyper-literal retranslations of FF6 or whatever but I think that's a case of it requiring less effort. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 09:16
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ImpAtom posted:Of course you have people doing awful hyper-literal retranslations of FF6 or whatever but I think that's a case of it requiring less effort. Haha, "Cefca."  I mean I know they got it from some official-romanization stuff but it's like some weird inverse version of Aeris-versus-Aerith, what the hell. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 09:36
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Last Remnant is really weird. I played for a couple hours or so and obliterated every enemy I came across. Then I met the first real boss and realized I had no idea what I was doing the whole time. Took me three tries and after that I really tried figuring the system out, but I just kind of lost interest. I'd like to get back to it one day, after I beat Persona 3 and Resonance of Fate. Ok, that will never happen... I haven't played either for years.
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Feb 10, 2013 10:58
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:There are people that liked and played through Saga Frontier 2? I gave that game an honest shot on a couple occasions and left it bewildered every time. I've finished plotlines on the first game, ran into difficulty walls on the other characters, and look forward to sitting down with it and a detailed FAQ in the future. But the second game just seemed like a big mess. It's me. I beat it. I'm pretty sure TWD and I are the only ones All the Dimensions talk is really tempting me but I don't want to play the thing on my drat phone Squeenix, come on port it to SOMETHING.
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Feb 10, 2013 14:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:
xbox version sucked, but pc version is up there with square's best works, even if the plot is even worse than usual.
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Feb 10, 2013 16:04
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Aureon posted:xbox version sucked, but pc version is up there with square's best works, even if the plot is even worse than usual. The Last Remnant has a plot? Could have fooled me.
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Feb 10, 2013 16:37
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I have never spent more than $2 for a mobile app before, but you guys are making Dimensions sound pretty drat awesome. Sounds like the job system is pretty deep.
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Feb 10, 2013 16:38
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Aureon posted:xbox version sucked, but pc version is up there with square's best works, even if the plot is even worse than usual. I picked up the PC version during xmas sale for a few bucks - I played it a bit, but it was, as ever, confusing. The little reading I did indicated that you can screw yourself over by fighting too much/too little, crafting/not crafting weapons for teammates who will automatically upgrade badly and gently caress you over, I don't know. I gave up and went back to playing other poo poo, I'll try it again at some point  I sort of admire Square's dedication to bringing Kawazu's crazy bullshit over here, after so many lukewarm receptions... that dude must have some serious pull inside the company. I know they sell well in japan, but it seems weird that they'd pay the expense of full localization for something like that and not, I don't know, FF12 IZJS or something.
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Feb 10, 2013 16:45
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I just started playing FFVI (the SNES version) for the first time ever, and I'm about two hours in, heading out of Southern Fortuna to Mt...Klot, was it? Anyway, I remember reading that evade, and a whole host of other things in the battle system, are massively broken in some way. Can someone elaborate? Any other beginner tips would be appreciated too.
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Feb 10, 2013 17:20
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Amppelix posted:I just started playing FFVI (the SNES version) for the first time ever, and I'm about two hours in, heading out of Southern Fortuna to Mt...Klot, was it? Anyway, I remember reading that evade, and a whole host of other things in the battle system, are massively broken in some way. Can someone elaborate? Any other beginner tips would be appreciated too. MEvade is used for both magic and physical attacks. Evade is never used in any calculations. Shaezerus posted:Nacht makes the best Ninja in the game, since he's got the best Speed boost out of both parties to go on top of the Ninja's already insane Speed stat; give him the Dark Knight's Backliner skill and the Thief's SPD+10% ability and he turns into a straight up death machine because he's getting two turns to everyone else's and is taking less damage by sitting in the back row. Since you're training him up in Ranger he should already have Alchemy as well, which gives him a ton of utility as a backup healer/ether dispensary. Dual Wield also applies to Aim's Spreadshot, which puts the skill above Phantom Rush in raw damage (eight hits versus six, and has nearly half its MP cost). If you don't have Spreadshot yet, Dark Blade is a great Ninja secondary since Dual Wield applies to Darkness, Onyx Wave and Ebony Slash, but only triggers the backlash once - Onyx Wave in particular is nice to have as a crowd-clearer if you don't want to use more of your Magus's MP since you're throwing out a double-damage multitarget attack. Ninja is also the best class to use Final Thrust with if you feel like gambling, since the chargeup is slow as hell on any other Job (it's not affected by Dual Wield though). Ninjutsu can be pretty handy situationally, but I find that outside of the occasional Restorative Pill I don't use it that much because Nacht is either murdering things too fast or has Alchemy and is better off chucking items instead. Well dang. Sounds like I'm kicking Aigis out. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 17:28
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So, you know how SE will most probably never, ever release Type-0 in the west? Well, a group of translators said "gently caress it" and finally started working on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6NiBDBXlgU
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Feb 10, 2013 18:41
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Amppelix posted:I just started playing FFVI (the SNES version) for the first time ever, and I'm about two hours in, heading out of Southern Fortuna to Mt...Klot, was it? Anyway, I remember reading that evade, and a whole host of other things in the battle system, are massively broken in some way. Can someone elaborate? Any other beginner tips would be appreciated too. The SNES version also has the Vanish trick: if an enemy is affected by Vanish (which, as a buff, no enemy resists), ALL status magic will work and bypass any resistances. This includes Death (and enemies who would normally absorb it like Undeads) and X-Zone, but X-Zone does weird poo poo to the game's scripting and doesn't count the enemies you kill as "dead," so stick with Death once it's an option if you wanna use the trick.
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Feb 10, 2013 18:49
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We need to set up a Kawazu challenge week. Everyone plays one of Saga Frontier 1 or 2, Unlimited Saga, Romancing Saga: Minstrel Song, or The Last Remnant. Winner is the last one still playing in a month or so
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Feb 10, 2013 18:51
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victrix posted:We need to set up a Kawazu challenge week. I've finished all those games.
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Feb 10, 2013 18:53
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ImpAtom posted:I've finished all those games. I'm not sure if I should shake your hand or pat you on the back I finished RS and enjoyed it, beat maybe one story in SF1, maybe, didn't finish SF2, US uh yeah, and haven't played TLR really yet. I did beat FFL2 a long time ago and thought it was pretty awesome at the time
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Feb 10, 2013 18:55
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Krad posted:So, you know how SE will most probably never, ever release Type-0 in the west? Well, a group of translators said "gently caress it" and finally started working on it. Huh, that's pretty cool. Hope they don't make it as literal as possible though. Or keep the honourifics.
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Feb 10, 2013 18:58
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Still hoping for an actual SEoA job, but that's the next best thing if it never happens.
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Feb 10, 2013 19:01
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victrix posted:We need to set up a Kawazu challenge week. This sounds fun as hell. If people actually signed up to do so, I'd get in on it. I've been meaning to play The Last Remnant for a while now too. And that Type-0 thing is something I'll keep an eye on, hopefully they don't get C&D'd.
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Feb 10, 2013 19:03
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The White Dragon posted:The SNES version also has the Vanish trick: if an enemy is affected by Vanish (which, as a buff, no enemy resists), ALL status magic will work and bypass any resistances. This includes Death (and enemies who would normally absorb it like Undeads) and X-Zone, but X-Zone does weird poo poo to the game's scripting and doesn't count the enemies you kill as "dead," so stick with Death once it's an option if you wanna use the trick. I always assumed that Vanish status making status effect spells stick 100% of the time was intentional (since the downside of it is supposed to be vulnerability to magic), and since Vanish counted as a beneficial status it had a 100% hit rate + no enemies were specifically immune to it. So like it was a case of two intended functions clashing in an unintended and kind of hilarious way, which is kind of conceptually (if not practically) different from a bug. S-Alpha posted:And that Type-0 thing is something I'll keep an eye on, hopefully they don't get C&D'd. I feel like that's sadly inevitable, given the game's recent release and Square-Enix's track record with this stuff. Hope I'm wrong! Baku fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 19:05
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Saga Frontier is fun as long as you make sure to take advantage of the unique characters in each scenario and build unique teams. Like with Lute, get Captain Hamilton ASAP and then train five gun users, and watch as all their regular attacks link together and do ridiculous damage 
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Feb 10, 2013 19:10
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Krad posted:So, you know how SE will most probably never, ever release Type-0 in the west? Well, a group of translators said "gently caress it" and finally started working on it. Can someone give a reasonable explanation for this? Why is Square just sitting on a finished modern Final Fantasy and not doing anything with it? Is translating and distributing it so expensive that they don't think they can get their money back? I know Final Fantasy's reputation isn't as great as it used to be, but they still sell well enough, I thought.
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Feb 10, 2013 19:14
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Attitude Indicator posted:Can someone give a reasonable explanation for this? Why is Square just sitting on a finished modern Final Fantasy and not doing anything with it? Is translating and distributing it so expensive that they don't think they can get their money back? It has a lot to do with Type-0 being a PSP title when the PSP is now effectively a dead system replaced wholesale by the Vita. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that they have decided the costs involved with localizing it and preparing for a NA release would be greater than whatever they'd get back by releasing it digitally on the Vita for a price point which would have to be below the average Vita game. There was also talk about remaking the game to be a proper Vita title but apparently that has fallen through for similar reasons. So yes, it really is just a money issue. I'm still hoping they'll change their minds but I'll definitely settle for a fan translation lacking other options.
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Feb 10, 2013 19:26
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Saga Frontier is fun as long as you make sure to take advantage of the unique characters in each scenario and build unique teams. Like with Lute, get Captain Hamilton ASAP and then train five gun users, and watch as all their regular attacks link together and do ridiculous damage Yeah, Saga Frontier is really fun once you know what you're doing. It just takes like 2-3 separate character playthroughs to get to that point and until then it will suck.
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Feb 10, 2013 19:28
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Meiteron posted:It has a lot to do with Type-0 being a PSP title when the PSP is now effectively a dead system replaced wholesale by the Vita. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that they have decided the costs involved with localizing it and preparing for a NA release would be greater than whatever they'd get back by releasing it digitally on the Vita for a price point which would have to be below the average Vita game. Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. So they pretty much started making a game then took too long to get it out, before the console was dead, and now there's no place to put it. In a roundabout way that makes the answer the one I was expecting all along: Square!
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Feb 10, 2013 19:36
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