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Negotiate the price you're going to pay before you discuss the exact methodology of payment.
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Feb 13, 2013 03:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Right now the used car market is so hosed that it's not too bad to go new at this point if you're looking at say, gently used Mazda3s vs new. Well, "gently used" isn't necessarily what I'd suggest going for, assuming that implies fairly low miles. There are lots of 5-8 year old cars out there with >170k. Most people are afraid of cars with such high mileage; as someone else noted earlier in the thread, cars last a lot longer now than they used to so this fear is simply to my advantage. Any car that young with so many miles was probably used as a commuter car, mostly highway miles. Make sure the service records look good and check the car itself to make sure it's in good shape and you've got yourself a pretty sweet deal. A quick look at Craigslist shows a number of likely candidates under $3000 in my area at the moment, though my personal favorite (Subaru) has gotten popular lately and those do seem to have risen in price.
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Feb 13, 2013 04:06
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Does anybody have any experience with buying a rebuilt car? I've been watching Craigslist like a hawk for a while and I'm getting down to either buying a new 2012 Civic for ~$14000 or going for rebuilt. All of the used cars I see are 100k+ miles and they want insane amounts of money for what you're getting. Rebuilt you can get a lot cheaper. I know it's a gamble, but I'm interested in just how much of a gamble it is.
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Feb 13, 2013 04:11
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Does anybody have any experience with buying a rebuilt car? I've been watching Craigslist like a hawk for a while and I'm getting down to either buying a new 2012 Civic for ~$14000 or going for rebuilt. All of the used cars I see are 100k+ miles and they want insane amounts of money for what you're getting. Rebuilt you can get a lot cheaper. I know it's a gamble, but I'm interested in just how much of a gamble it is. If you arent familiar with cars buying a salvage title is going to only end in disaster.
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Feb 13, 2013 04:13
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Does anybody have any experience with buying a rebuilt car? I've been watching Craigslist like a hawk for a while and I'm getting down to either buying a new 2012 Civic for ~$14000 or going for rebuilt. All of the used cars I see are 100k+ miles and they want insane amounts of money for what you're getting. Rebuilt you can get a lot cheaper. I know it's a gamble, but I'm interested in just how much of a gamble it is. I would consider buying a salvage titled car in two circumstances. 1. It was my car originally and I was buying it back from insurance, and it was rare/old/sentimental value or a combination of the three. 2. I knew, personally and professionally, the body shop that had done the repairs on the vehicle and I had 100% complete repair documentation, and I knew the previous owner personally, and I persuaded the shop to sign a waiver that would quadruple my medical coverage.
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Feb 13, 2013 04:51
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Proposed Budget: $18,000-$25,000 New or Used: New or certified used Body Style: Sedan or Coupe. How will you be using the car?: No towing, rarely have passengers, mainly used for just driving to work and back as I use the SUV on weekends due to kids. Commute 24 miles each way to work, mostly highway. I want something comfortable and stylish. What aspects are most important to you?: Style, decent to high MPG, semi-sporty but not a sports car. Must have leather. Just looking for anything that I may of skipped over in my search thus far as I haven't had any luck finding anything I like. I used to have a 2006 Civic but sold it before deployment. I loved how it drove and was realiable but it's looks never really impressed me.
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Feb 13, 2013 20:27
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Seraphimikey posted:Proposed Budget: $18,000-$25,000 Have you checked out the V6 Mustang? If you stick to 2011+ the V6 falls in the "sporty" category, you'll get ~28mpg or more on the highway, you can get leather and heated seats and all that jazz. Of course, in stop and go you'll be under 20 mpg if you have a heavy foot. Don't look at 2010 or older V6 Mustangs, they fall in the "flaming turd" category. Other than that your best bet for sporty, high mpg sedans or coupes with leather under $25k consist of Hundai Sonata Turbo and a used Accord V6 off the top of my head, and neither of those are particularly fuel efficient. If "sporty" doesn't mean "powerful" then you might look at the 2012+ Mazda 3, which will be vastly more fuel efficient than any of these, but slower than a V6 Camry. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 13, 2013 |
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Feb 13, 2013 20:35
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Seraphimikey posted:Proposed Budget: $18,000-$25,000 The Ford Focus Titanium (top trim level) has leather seats and good driving dymanics, with MSRP for the sedan at $23,200. Try to get it with the manual transmission - the automatic is a little sketchy. Also take a look at the Mazda3 (MSRP 22,800 with leather) or the Dodge Dart (19,995 and gorgeous). The new Civic has lost the fun dynamics that previous generations had, and the current Corolla is ancient.
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Feb 13, 2013 20:47
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JosephStalinVEVO posted:Thank you for this! I shopped around and hit up all of my banks/credit card places and was approved everywhere for an auto loan. I got a 3.54% rate, which for my somewhat checkered credit history seems pretty good. 3.54% for how many months? Typically the exact rate varies depending on the length of the loan. That sounds quite reasonable regardless, though. What you do is you negotiate on the "out the door price" of the vehicle. Refuse to discuss terms. If they insist on knowing whether you'll finance, tell them that you will decide whether to finance based on what the final price is. Many uninformed buyers think dealers would be delighted to have you pay in cash and will offer a better price for cash buyers, probably because that is true of private parties, bank-owned homes, and small business owners. But it's the opposite for dealerships. Understand that many dealerships make more profit from their financing arm, than they do from direct sales of cars. They want to finance anyone with not-horrific credit, ideally for some usurious rate. They want to disguise that usurious rate by discussing price in terms of monthly payments, rather than total price. Alternatively they will discuss total price, but not include the interest, up-front fees, etc. They might accept a lower price if they are certain they will be charging you 12% interest for 6 years on that amount. But gently caress all that. Once you have an actual "out the door" price that they've committed to and you're happy with, then you trot out the financing deal you have in your pocket and give them the opportunity to beat it. They have to beat the APR and any associated fees, so for example, it's no good if they beat the APR but charge you $800 up front in add-ons. (For brand new cars, often the killer financing deal offered by a factory is instead of some up-front cash/discount, so be aware of the opportunity cost there and do the math. It may be that getting the $1500 cash incentive is better for you than losing it in order to get .25% lower interest rate on the factory loan, compared to your bank's rate, instead.) Anyway be diligent with the paperwork too, and don't be intimidated. Demand an "out the door" price, inclusive of taxes, titles, fees, origination, delivery, fuel charge, surtax, cleaning fee, DMV fee, etc*. Negotiate on that price, and do not sign anything that adds dollars on top of that price. (Optionally, negotiate on the out-the-door price exclusive of tax, if you want to compare the out-the-door to the prices on KBB or Edmunds, etc., since those prices never include taxes. Just make sure nothing beyond the out-the-door is tacked on, save actual tax items, which may include federal, state, and local taxes.) Be prepared to walk away at any stage, including after you've test-driven six cars, come back the next day, negotiated on price, sat in the office for 20 minutes while they print up paperwork, checked with the manager, and finally presented you with documents. You don't have to be melodramatic or anything. Just insist on the price you negotiated for, and if they try to jerk you around, say "I'm not comfortable with this. I'd like to take this quote and come back later." Stand up and put on your coat and leave. If they tell you the quote is only good for today, walk away anyway. "Sorry - I don't like feeling pressured, I need to look this over more carefully, this isn't the price we agreed upon." Don't get drawn into a debate over the details. Just remind yourself that thousands of dollars of purchase are worthy of a little more of your time, there are plenty more cars and plenty more dealerships. Honestly I've never encountered that kind of pressure tactic but I've read horror stories so I know it does happen. Most likely you'll have a polite sales person who will recognize quickly that you're well informed and will stick to your guns, and they'll accept a modest profit and sell you a car without much hassle. *Some of these fees are legitimate, of course; or rather, they're legitimate expenses for the dealership. But it's entirely optional for the dealership to call them out as line-items on top of the sale price or not. When you buy milk at the grocery store, they don't tack on a "refrigeration fee" even though storing the milk definitely costs them some money in refrigeration. So even though the dealership probably had to pay a fee to the DMV to obtain title on the car, and then another fee to transfer title to you, there's no special reason why that has to be tacked on to the final price vs. absorbed by their operating costs built into their sales margins. It may also be useful for them to be line-items because they're not taxable: you may owe sales tax on the sale price of the car, but not on the DMV fee paid for titling the car. That's fine... just ask for all these fees to be built into your out-the-door quote, and then settle on an out-the-door price you're happy with. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 14, 2013 |
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Feb 14, 2013 00:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I would consider buying a salvage titled car in two circumstances. Bovril Delight posted:If you arent familiar with cars buying a salvage title is going to only end in disaster. Point taken. I may go with an older car and just be ready to stick a rebuilt engine in it at some point.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:42
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Bovril Delight posted:If you arent familiar with cars buying a salvage title is going to only end in disaster. Why is this? Is it primarily because of the high likelihood you are buying a lemon turdmobile? Are there insurance implications also?
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Feb 14, 2013 23:55
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Point taken. I may go with an older car and just be ready to stick a rebuilt engine in it at some point. If oil got changed, it's very likely that the engine will outlive the rest of the drivetrain and the rest of the car in general with most modern engine designs.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:59
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Point taken. I may go with an older car and just be ready to stick a rebuilt engine in it at some point. Unless you're buying a $14k 996-generation Porsche 911, no reasonable $14k car will need a "rebuilt engine" at any time in the remotely near future if you follow basic maintenance schedules. And if $10-14k is only finding you "100k mile" cars, you either seriously need to expand your search in terms of make/model/location, or work on your search skills. Of course, as discussed in the thread repeatedly, having 100k miles is not the death knell people thought it was. The lowest-mile car I own has 120k, and it's only six years old. canyoneer posted:Why is this? Is it primarily because of the high likelihood you are buying a lemon turdmobile? Are there insurance implications also? There's insurance implications from a diminished value perspective (so, never buy a salvage title car that you need to take a loan to get) and there's no real certification that the car was truly repaired properly. LloydDobler in AI has made it a long-term habit of buying salvage-title Volvos, but that's because he buys them in their as-is condition and fixes them himself. He's also made it a habit to cherrypick ones that are salvaged due to easy-to-fix things. For example, it's not hard to total a car out with hail damage, but it won't actually impact anything other than the appearance. A car that's had the entire front clip smashed off by an eighteen-wheeler will require extreme skill and care taken to put it back to as-new condition, and a car that gets flooded out by a hurricane may never be truly repaired. There are 'inspections' that most salvage-title cars go through to be titled for road use again - but in most areas the only goal of these is to ensure that there's enough car there to be basically road legal (lights, brakes, etc) and that none of the parts on it are from stolen cars. There's no telling whether the unibody was just hammered until it fit, or if it was carefully pulled and measured until it was back to factory spec. Leperflesh posted:*Some of these fees are legitimate, of course; or rather, they're legitimate expenses for the dealership. But it's entirely optional for the dealership to call them out as line-items on top of the sale price or not. When you buy milk at the grocery store, they don't tack on a "refrigeration fee" even though storing the milk definitely costs them some money in refrigeration. So even though the dealership probably had to pay a fee to the DMV to obtain title on the car, and then another fee to transfer title to you, there's no special reason why that has to be tacked on to the final price vs. absorbed by their operating costs built into their sales margins. It may also be useful for them to be line-items because they're not taxable: you may owe sales tax on the sale price of the car, but not on the DMV fee paid for titling the car. That's fine... just ask for all these fees to be built into your out-the-door quote, and then settle on an out-the-door price you're happy with. This and everything else in the post is damned good advice. Out-the-door negotiation is critical because different dealers will charge different fees for this. Around here they usually call it "doc fees" and they charge anywhere from $200 to $800 for what amounts to $30 worth of actual filing. If you focus on out-the-door pricing, you know exactly what your total cost will be, and it's the only way to accurately compare one dealer to another.
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Feb 15, 2013 00:09
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canyoneer posted:Why is this? Is it primarily because of the high likelihood you are buying a lemon turdmobile? Are there insurance implications also? How much do you want to get in a car accident in a car that had significant structural damage repaired by god knows who using god knows what tools, equipment and techniques?
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Feb 15, 2013 00:56
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I'm debating a single-owner 2008 Mustang V6 ($13,900 with low mileage). I've had a hard time find 2011+ V6s under 20k out here around Seattle. Please tell me why I should not buy this car.
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Feb 15, 2013 04:43
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You're going to get walked by a base model 4 cylinder Honda Accord at a stoplight? The Cologne V6 was known for having timing chain(s) problems, because it was originally an OHV engine converted to SOHC. There are 3 timing chains including one at the back of the engine that are difficult and expensive to get to. Most of this seems to be on older Rangers and Exploreres though, so maybe they've fixed it on the newer Mustangs?
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Feb 15, 2013 05:15
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IOwnCalculus posted:Unless you're buying a $14k 996-generation Porsche 911, no reasonable $14k car will need a "rebuilt engine" at any time in the remotely near future if you follow basic maintenance schedules. And if $10-14k is only finding you "100k mile" cars, you either seriously need to expand your search in terms of make/model/location, or work on your search skills. Of course, as discussed in the thread repeatedly, having 100k miles is not the death knell people thought it was. The lowest-mile car I own has 120k, and it's only six years old. Sorry that was a confusing sentence. The $14k would be for a brand new car (2012 model), or about $16k w/ taxes and fees. If I'm going with a car to stick an engine in I would be looking in the ~$2k range. The lowest mileage car I've ever owned had 97k on it and the one I drive now has 120k, it works but it burns oil like mad and I have to replace something every few months. One junkyard near me has the same model and if it weren't for being able to strip that thing I probably would have given up. I'm know that there are cars out there that do fine with very high miles but they are hard to find and I just hate the thought of putting down $5-7k on a gamble like that. I think I'm just longing for the good old days when you actually could get a decent little car for a few thousand bucks but the market isn't like that anymore.
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Feb 15, 2013 05:33
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Rukawa posted:I'm debating a single-owner 2008 Mustang V6 ($13,900 with low mileage). I've had a hard time find 2011+ V6s under 20k out here around Seattle. Please tell me why I should not buy this car. Considering that you can get lucky at a Ford dealership and walk out with a 2012 Mustang GT (the one with the 5.0 V8) for $25k or less...
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Feb 15, 2013 05:35
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Throatwarbler posted:You're going to get walked by a base model 4 cylinder Honda Accord at a stoplight? Hrm, awesome info, thanks! I really want an '11 V6 Premium and I've only heard good things about it, but I've had a hell of a time finding a color I like plus low mileage and at less than 20k. I'm not married to the idea of a mustang, but I think I've settled on the idea of a 2-3 year old reasonably priced sports car, which likely means a cheaper pony. I have been trolling CL for older deals, just haven't found what I'm looking for yet.
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Feb 15, 2013 07:12
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Rukawa posted:Hrm, awesome info, thanks! I really want an '11 V6 Premium and I've only heard good things about it, but I've had a hell of a time finding a color I like plus low mileage and at less than 20k. A pre-2011 v6 mustang is not really a sports car. Its more of a transportation device for people who want to look fast but don't really care about driving. The motor is boring as hell. If you can't swing a 2011+ v6, get an older GT or another car. Are you paying cash or getting a loan. You might find that a loan on a 2013 Mustang GT for $25k is very similar in overall cost than a $20k 2011 Mustang V6 given the significantly lower interest rates. New cars are current less of a terrible idea as everyone is defaulting to used cars.
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Feb 15, 2013 07:44
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nm posted:A pre-2011 v6 mustang is not really a sports car. Its more of a transportation device for people who want to look fast but don't really care about driving. The motor is boring as hell. If you can't swing a 2011+ v6, get an older GT or another car. If I were to buy the 08 Mustang, I likely would take a $7500 loan, I've been approved at 3.49% over five years. I'd aim to pay it off in two or sooner. I'm assuming that APR would stick with a loan twice that much, but maybe not. Dropping the APR to 0 would save a couple grand and that would definitely bring those two models closer together.
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Feb 15, 2013 08:23
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I've been car shopping for a while, and test drove a Mazda3, Focus and a Cruze. I really liked the Cruze since it's not really a base model. The Cruze I drove is a 2012 2LT with an MRSP of 22k, and an "Internet Special" price of 19.5. What's the lowest you guys think I could work them down to on that car?
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Feb 15, 2013 14:58
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Rukawa posted:I'm debating a single-owner 2008 Mustang V6 ($13,900 with low mileage). I've had a hard time find 2011+ V6s under 20k out here around Seattle. Please tell me why I should not buy this car. I factory ordered a 2013 V6 Premium last year with some options for under $23k, a hair under $25k out the door after all taxes & fees. If I were looking for a 2011 V6 Premium I'd expect them to be worth around $16k, there are tons of these cars sold and they've never held their value exceptionally well. I'm not expecting mine to be worth a ton, but I really like the car and want to keep it 8+ years. You're going to an incredibly difficult time getting a 2013 GT Premium for under $28k, but it's possible if you find a 2012 on a lot somewhere. Whatever you do, do NOT get a 2008. There are much better cars of any type and price you can imagine than a Mustang with the 4.0 V6.
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Feb 15, 2013 15:10
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I'll put it this way: a 2008 V6 Mustang is as good of an idea as a 1999-2006 A4 platform Volkswagen.
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Feb 15, 2013 15:52
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Rukawa posted:If I were to buy the 08 Mustang, I likely would take a $7500 loan, I've been approved at 3.49% over five years. I'd aim to pay it off in two or sooner. I'm assuming that APR would stick with a loan twice that much, but maybe not. Dropping the APR to 0 would save a couple grand and that would definitely bring those two models closer together. Be sure you check the terms of the loan if you're planning on early pay-off. My last auto loan had an "early payoff fee" of $250. For a 3 year term loan, if you paid the loan off within 24 months, you'd pay the $250 fee which would eat up any interest savings from early payoff.
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Feb 15, 2013 17:15
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canyoneer posted:Be sure you check the terms of the loan if you're planning on early pay-off. My last auto loan had an "early payoff fee" of $250. For a 3 year term loan, if you paid the loan off within 24 months, you'd pay the $250 fee which would eat up any interest savings from early payoff. Yeah, I figured that verbiage might be included in there. I will definitely check. I have been properly convinced to shy away from that Mustang, thanks guys  . I'll keep holding out and looking for a deal.
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Feb 15, 2013 17:31
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SpiffyMcGee posted:I've been car shopping for a while, and test drove a Mazda3, Focus and a Cruze. I really liked the Cruze since it's not really a base model. The Cruze I drove is a 2012 2LT with an MRSP of 22k, and an "Internet Special" price of 19.5. What's the lowest you guys think I could work them down to on that car? Kelly Bluebook doesn't list a 2LT for 2012, just 2013. They list invoice as $18,603 for the LT. I'd say try and talk them down closer to that. Since it's last model year, you can probably put some pressure on it.
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Feb 15, 2013 21:17
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Proposed Budget: <$6,760 New or Used: Used Body Style: Coupe or sedan. How will you be using the car?: Going to use the car to get to and from work. Don't tow anything. Will usually only drive 1 passenger. I put in about 14,000 miles a year. What aspects are most important to you? Automatic transmission. MPG. I'd prefer something inexpensive to maintain and I can rely on. I'm buying a car to replace my 2002 Honda Civic 4D EX Sedan. I just had a car accident and it was totaled. Insurance is giving me a $6,760 check for it. I was planning to save up to replace it in 2 years, but this throws a monkey wrench into things. I don't have a lot of money to go beyond what they're giving me because I'm saving for a wedding at the end of this year. I just want something that I can rely on that will get me through the next two years, passed my wedding and graduation. If you can recommend something that's a little higher in my budget that would be worth it, I'm willing to throw in an extra $1,000. Edit: Future mother-in-law is telling me she has a family friend who works for a Nissan dealer. How's their reputation? Raimondo fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 15, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 21:20
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2002-2007 Ford Focus. You can choose the body style.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:38
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What's a decent offer to make on this car, assuming the test drive/inspection goes okay? http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3617827901.html
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Feb 16, 2013 01:35
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Seraphimikey posted:Proposed Budget: $18,000-$25,000 I can tell you a BMW 3 series between '07 and '10 should fit into your price range. If you're willing to set aside a bit more than you're used to for preventive maintenance [and premium gas], then it could be a good fit for you.
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Feb 16, 2013 02:01
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Or, since Seraphimikey liked how the civic drove, an Acura of some flavor might be a good choice.
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Feb 16, 2013 04:14
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TheManWithNoName posted:What's a decent offer to make on this car, assuming the test drive/inspection goes okay? $1000 if it runs. Unless it has some sort of hobbyist value I'm not aware of.
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Feb 16, 2013 16:02
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Proposed Budget: $6,000-$8,000 New or Used:Used Body Style: 4 door sedan How will you be using the car?: Weekends, mostly. What aspects are most important to you? Safety, reliability, maintenance, style, automatic. It rains a lot here and I don't really like driving. I kind of like the 2003 Volvo S60 FWD or AWD from what I've been looking at also Lexus IS300. Grumpicat fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Feb 17, 2013 |
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Feb 17, 2013 21:08
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I posted earlier about a car for my mom. She's settled on the Subaru Impreza 5 door limited/sport limited. Is there any consensus on this Subaru?
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Feb 17, 2013 21:14
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Looking at getting a new car. Want something cheap, reliable and somewhat fuel efficient right now as I will mostly only be using it to commute to work. There is a 2011 Honda Civic coupe for sale near me for about ~$13,000 with 16k miles on it. Going to shoot for paying it off in 3 years if possible. I have $3k for a down payment and also I'm a member of a credit union so my interest rate would be 2%.
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Feb 17, 2013 22:02
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So, it turns out I got a pretty good deal on a 2014 V6 Mustang. I paid 23 out the door, with the tech and sync packages. Thanks for all the help guys .
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Feb 18, 2013 04:12
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So, I'm active duty stationed in Korea until August. I sold my last car (2005 Honda Civic) when I left and have been saving up for a new one while I've been away. Proposed Budget: < $25k New or Used: Prefer new, not crucial Body Style: Smaller is better How will you be using the car?: I have a ~40 minute commute between Ft. Meade and Baltimore, rarely carry more than two people, desperately need to be able to park it on crowded downtown neighborhood streets What aspects are most important to you?: reliable, fuel efficient I'm really interested in the new electric cars they're working on right now, but I don't know much about them. I've seen some charging stations around Baltimore in the parking garages, and I wonder how much trouble one would be. Has anyone owned one or had any experience with them? Is that even something I should bother considering, given my budget?
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Feb 18, 2013 16:14
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Pucklynn posted:So, I'm active duty stationed in Korea until August. I sold my last car (2005 Honda Civic) when I left and have been saving up for a new one while I've been away. I think only the Leaf and I-MIEV are in that budget and neither are particularly exciting.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:09
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The iMIEV might be pretty scary if your commute is largely highway, and the Leaf has known / documented battery lifespan issues in non-temperate climates, which Nissan has not been particularly good at handling so far. Pure electric (or electric-with-generator like the Volt) is still a bleeding-edge technology that comes with a hefty price premium (and some potential significant early adopter problems). At $25k I would not consider any of them. You might be able to swing a lightly used plug-in Prius, but when my dad did the math on buying one versus his regular Prius, the uptick in cost between the two would've taken the better part of a decade to recoup.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:26
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