|
slowbeef posted:I just don't know where I'd put it.  It's not so bad for this case so far, since most of the action so far has happened within these past three updates, but finding details like Nagito going to the convenience store, you do gotta hunt a little bit. There could be other tiny tidbits that we wouldn't pick up unless we reread the whole drat thing, although this early on that's not a TERRIBLY daunting task. You could just make a post at the end of each chapter summarizing the updates, since that's when everybody tends to go nuts with theories and speculation. If you wanted, you could throw in an extra link in the OP after each chapter and call it like "Chapter Summary" or "Chapter Breakdown" or something like that.
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 08:50 |
|
|
I doubt Kuzuryuu did it. For one, he wouldn't have access to the breaker (he'd risk being seen setting up a timed-breaker or pulling it to begin with), the skewer (he'd risk being seen going to the kitchen) or the knife under the table (again, he'd risk being seen setting it up.) Also, he wouldn't need to do this. The plan was for them to have a sleepover. If he was going to kill someone, waiting until they slept would be better. I think that Kuzuryuu is going to be the fall guy that the murderer is trying to pin it on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 17:03
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:I just don't know where I'd put it. Host it offsite on the SSLP Test poster and have a link to it in the OP that warns that your table of contents will have spoilers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 17:08
|
|
|
Heck, you could probably have a mini table of contents at the end of the (ab)normal days section, when a murder happens, that links to that chapter's updates. The time when most people will want that sort of table of contents is after a murder, after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 17:23
|
|
|
I know I offered, but I really won't have time to do this for awhile today. If anyone else would like to exert the effort, feel free. I do like the SSLP test post solution, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
Tentative Table of Contents? 1: Super High school Level Introduction 2: "Heart-thumping Field Twip" 3: SHSL Luck, and what the trip is about. 4: Meeting Gundam and Souda 5: Meeting Tsumiki and Ibuki 6: Meeting Nidai, Kuzuryuu, and Koizumi 7: Meeting Peko and Chiaki 8: Meeting Teruteru and Nevermind. 9: Meeting Akane, Saionji, and Togami 10: BEACH PARTY! 11: Wait, why are there clouds and thunder. Ominous 12: F-field trip of mutual killing!? 13: Hitana's Anguish and Despair 14: A meeting of the Students and some food of unknown origins 15: Mikan's first fall, and a leader is Togami? 16: Ticking Clock and Monomi's back! 17: Gundam's a blogger, and Togami is obsessed with fat? 18: Kyzuryuu's oath, and the first motive... Manzai!? What? 19: They've lost their memories? And Monobear, I think the fourth wall needs some repairs. 20: The second restaurant meeting, a party, and drawing lots? 21: Television with Sonia and Pork with Togami. 22: Party Protection Plans 23: Togami talking, more protection plans, and barren Blackout? 24: Super High School Level Death 1 Edited with more intertaining names, in my opinon. I still believe Rith's table of contents is much more applicable than mine for what we want, but I do like it. HangedManArcana fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
Obviously I won't be able to update this comment for future updates, as that'll spoil anyone reading through the thread from the beginning, but here's a quick overview of each update until now for reference purposes. Annotated Table of Contents Prologue Super High-school Level Update #1 - in which Hinata enters Hope's Peak Academy, meets the cast briefly, and Usami arrives on scene. Super High-school Level Update #2 - in which we meet Usami and she reveals the students are actually on a tropical island. 'DANGAN ISLAND' opening video. Super High-school Level Update #3 - in which Nagito introduces himself, Hinata realises he can't remember his talent, and we get our first look at the Electronic Student Handbook. Super High-school Level Update #4 - in which we meet Souda and Gundam at the airport, and learn Usami's rules. Super High-school Level Update #5 - in which we meet Tsumiki and Ibuki at the market. Super High-school Level Update #6 - in which we meet Nidai, Kuzuryuu and Mahiru at the hotel, and our electronic pet hatches. Super High-school Level Update #7 - in which Usami forbids us from entering the dangewous lodge, and we meet Nanami and Pekoyama inside the hotel. Super High-school Level Update #8 - in which we meet Hanamura and Sonia in the hotel kitchen. Super High-school Level Update #9 - in which Usami displays the power of her Magical Stick, we meet Owari and Saionji at the farm, levels are explained, and we meet Togami at the park. Super High-school Level Update #10 - in which the group gather to discuss the island, Togami identifies it as Jabberwock Island, half the cast end up in swimsuits and Hinata starts to embrace the situation just in time for Monobear to show up. (Addendum in which we talk to the remaining characters who refused to swim, all of whom are clearly crossdressers.) Super High-school Level Update #11 - in which Monobear reveals himself, turns Usami into Monomi, demands murder and explains the school trial. Monobeast video. Super High-school Level Update #12 - in which the Monobeasts demonstrate their power and the students try to come to terms with their new situation. 'Super Dangan Ronpa 2' opening video. Chapter 1 (Ab)normal days Super High-school Level Update #13 - in which we read Monobear's new rules in the Handbook, enter our cottage and find that Hinata is taking all this pretty hard. Monobear Theatre segment. Super High-school Level Update #14 - in which Monobear instructs us to find figurines, Souda isn't taking things too well either, we learn that the Monobeasts are blocking off the other islands and Togami calls a breakfast meeting. Super High-school Level Update #15 - in which Tsumiki falls over, Togami appoints himself leader and we discover a Mysterious Countdown Device. Super High-school Level Update #16 - in which the Mysterious Countdown Device is discussed and we see Monomi for the first time since her unfortunate Monobeast encounter in update #12. Super High-school Level Update #17 - in which we search for Hidden Monobears and spend our free time with Gundam and Togami. Super High-school Level Update #18 - in which Monobear summons everyone to the park, Kuzuryuu declares his intention to kill, and Monobear drags Monomi into a comedy routine. Super High-school Level Update #19 - in which Monobear informs everyone of their amnesia and offers memories in return for murder, and there may be a traitor amongst the students' ranks. Monobear Theatre segment. Super High-school Level Update #20 - in which everyone but Kuzuryuu gathers at the restaurant, Togami proposes a party and lots are drawn to determine who will clean the lodge. Super High-school Level Update #21 - in which we spend our free time with Sonia and Togami. Super High-school Level Update #22 - in which we explore and discuss the lodge, learn of Togami's security measures, watch Togami eat and check the kitchen for dangerous items. Super High-school Level Update #23 - in which Togami vaguely references his past, we finish checking the kitchen, Pekoyama offers to guard a case, Nanami goes in search of Monomi, Owari eats a lot, Gundam has lost an earring and there's a blackout. Super High-school Level Update #24 - in which Tsumiki falls over again, Nidai displays a startling array of needing-the-toilet faces, Pekoyama is missing and we find our first body. Hope that's useful! (EDIT: Whoops, sorry if this stepped on your toes, HangedManArcana. Good luck with your test!) Rith fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 18:58
|
|
|
HangedManArcana posted:Tentative Table of Contents? The only thing with getting too creative is that it might not be obvious what exactly happened in the update. I mean, sure "Blackout?" and "F-field trip..." are pretty obvious, but 1 and 3-9 are pretty clear about it. Basically, if I'm looking for something Mahiru said, it'd be nice to somehow know if she's involved in the update or not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but do we know what happened to Togami's mystery box? He said he had to protect it with his life, after all, and now there's no sign of it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 19:08
|
|
|
legoman727 posted:I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but do we know what happened to Togami's mystery box? He said he had to protect it with his life, after all, and now there's no sign of it. I think the general consensus is that he had the nightvision goggles in there, though we're still not certain obviously. Whether he was going to use them for good or for evil is still being debated as well. The investigation will clear up a lot of these issues I think.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 19:13
|
|
|
legoman727 posted:I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but do we know what happened to Togami's mystery box? He said he had to protect it with his life, after all, and now there's no sign of it. It's just offscreen, for sure. No point in wasting narration on a drat box when it'll certainly come up five minutes later in the investigation part anyway. Also, yeah, the goggles are pretty much the only item shown (so far) that could've been in it along with the key to the other box.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 19:25
|
|
|
Armanky posted:I think the general consensus is that he had the nightvision goggles in there, though we're still not certain obviously. Whether he was going to use them for good or for evil is still being debated as well. The investigation will clear up a lot of these issues I think. I don't know if that's true. Togami removed "dangerous items" From update 24: "...It seems you are not carrying any dangerous items." (And then he goes on about the Duralumin boxes.) Do the goggles count as dangerous? I mean, I guess now they do, but still. And the night vision goggles were - at least previously - in the store. Even if he had stored them in the box, someone could've taken a pair prior to the party.  This stand has military goods... Are those night-vision goggles? What supermarket would carry these things?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 19:27
|
|
|
I really doubt Togami is dead. It'd feel weak that someone who had so much preparation and thought into stopping murder would die to a quick stabbing. Even as Slowbeef shows above, there's body armor available. I wouldn't doubt that he has it on 24/7. It'd definitely stop a knife.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 19:31
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:The only thing with getting too creative is that it might not be obvious what exactly happened in the update. Ah, well Rith has done one that's a lot more clear than mine I guess. I was a bit worried about keeping things in the table of contents as spoiler-free as I can, for some reason. And I'm going to finish my Table up with creative titles for the updates mostly since it's fun to do, but I'd go with Rith's more than mine. Their's Table is good for glancing back at the updates to try and recall things. (Also, thanks for the good luck, Rith. I think I did well.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 19:35
|
|
|
Can we have the update numbers listed at the top of each update too? So if you haven't read the thread in a week and you read one of the three new updates, one can go look at the topic OP and realize they have only read update 22 of 24. Sometimes one can skip to the last page to clear out the commentary and miss the fact that there have been 3 newer updates. (Or land on a quoted picture of a dead body for example). An improved table of contents could also use an interspersed list of the DR2 updates and DR0 updates if the order/pacing that Oren is posting the DR0 content is going to be important later on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:00
|
|
|
HangedManArcana posted:Ah, well Rith has done one that's a lot more clear than mine I guess. I was a bit worried about keeping things in the table of contents as spoiler-free as I can, for some reason. Oh wow, I somehow completely missed Rith's. That is perfect. Thank you both for extending the effort.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
James Totes posted:I really doubt Togami is dead. It'd feel weak that someone who had so much preparation and thought into stopping murder would die to a quick stabbing. Even as Slowbeef shows above, there's body armor available. I wouldn't doubt that he has it on 24/7. It'd definitely stop a knife. Not sure how relevant this is, but kevlar vests have been shown in studies to not be very effective against stabbing attacks. I remember reading about this a long time ago (in the Darwin Awards maybe?) While they're excellent and absorbing energy from bullets, knives (or skewers) for example can penetrate kevlar with a reasonably strong stabbing motion, due to the fact the point of the knife concentrates all of the force on just a few fibres in the vest. It gave another example that a forcefully delivered knife stab could penetrate a car door where small caliber bullets wouldn't. Although the knife seems to have been used with the blood along one edge as though slashed through the victim, my guess is Togami will actually have been skewered through the floor boards somehow. It would account for the bullet point on the lovely floor quality. Still not sure who's in the bathroom or why it's locked, or the signifigance of Hamster Master's earring, though! I'm really loving Coach's lines by the way, his sprite changes over the toilet being occupied long-term are making me smile in a most uncaring juvenile fashion. edit: On looking back closely at the military good picture to see if it was indeed a ballistic vest like I was thinking, Im not sure it's a protective vest at all, looks like a dummy torso wearing a camo ski mask and goggles to be honest, so probably all moot points above Tiocfaidh Yar Ma fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:03
|
|
|
Rith's proposed table of contents reads like one you'd find in an 18th century novel (Fielding, Richardson, etc.).
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:08
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:Even if he had stored them in the box, someone could've taken a pair prior to the party. Yeah, but the hard part wouldn't be getting the goggles so much as getting them to the party unnoticed. I know you just pointed out he said he'd only do it for dangerous items, but I can't really imagine him not confiscating them given how paranoid he acted up to that point. I mean, I can't imagine him checking everybody for items that could be used in a murder, finding night vision goggles and going "That seems safe enough." The only issue with that assumption is that it requires the killer to have gotten the goggles there before the party. And thanks to Rith's useful table of contents, I can actually source my arguments now! Nagito was in the lodge cleaning it up, so the killer couldn't have hid it very easily. It is true that Nagito left the lodge to get the carpet, but that's a very small timeframe to rig a power outage and hide the night vision goggles somewhere that Nagito wouldn't find while cleaning it up. In addition to that, the killer would have to know that Nagito was going to leave the lodge and for how long he'd be gone to do this, since this would be a premeditated crime. Another thing is that the killer would have to know that Togami was going to body search everybody once they got there. It's not impossible to assume the criminal was just as paranoid as Togami, but it's still a point against it and when you pile it up with everything else it just seems really hard that the killer managed to sneak those night vision goggles there. That would mean that either Nagito is the killer(since he would be the only one who could have reasonably used them) or that the glasses belonged to Togami. There's another possibility though. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it's possible that the night vision goggles came in after the bodychecks as opposed to before. For example, the gangster who refused to come to the party - supposing he entered the place after the body checks and stayed hidden somewhere(the bathroom?) he could easily have gotten them there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:14
|
|
|
Sherringford posted:Nagito was in the lodge cleaning it up, so the killer couldn't have hid it very easily. It is true that Nagito left the lodge to get the carpet, but that's a very small timeframe to rig a power outage and hide the night vision goggles somewhere that Nagito wouldn't find while cleaning it up. In addition to that, the killer would have to know that Nagito was going to leave the lodge and for how long he'd be gone to do this, since this would be a premeditated crime. Another thing is that the killer would have to know that Togami was going to body search everybody once they got there. It's not impossible to assume the criminal was just as paranoid as Togami, but it's still a point against it and when you pile it up with everything else it just seems really hard that the killer managed to sneak those night vision goggles there. Perhaps the killer, after grabbing a pair of goggles and stashing them somewhere nearby, told Nagito about the carpet in the supermarket, thus creating an opportunity to find the goggles. Also, couldn't the killer have gotten the knife from the kitchen of the resturant in the hotel, seeing as there were no knives missing from the lodge's kitchen. quote:There's another possibility though. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it's possible that the night vision goggles came in after the bodychecks as opposed to before. For example, the gangster who refused to come to the party - supposing he entered the place after the body checks and stayed hidden somewhere(the bathroom?) he could easily have gotten them there. Don't take this as fact, but when we met Nidai on the way to the hall before the meal, didn't he say something about the restroom being locked? If so, then can't we assume the door remained locked all this time?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:I don't know if that's true. Togami removed "dangerous items" From update 24: Keep in mind he had two boxes. One for confiscated items that he gave to Peko to guard, and the other he kept with him and he said contained the key to the first box. Whether it also had night vision goggles, we don't know. I find that it'd be hard for anyone but Togami or Nagito to have goggles, though. (Well, the gangster could have used them also...) This is because Togami searched everyone. He of course could have them, and Nagito could have stashed it when he was cleaning. We also don't know if Togami used the goggles, or simply noticed someone going under the table (or noticed the florescent tape), followed them, and died. It's also possible that the goggles were stashed under the table and were never used.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:36
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:This stand has military goods... Are those night-vision goggles? I'm pretty sure I've seen stuff like that at Wal-Mart, and I don't even live in the states. At the very least, I know my mom got them from somewhere, I'd have to ask her where (and more importantly come to think of it, why.) she bought those, but I am pretty sure it was the local mall. Yeah, here they are. Now I just need to ask why she has these. :| Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:42
|
|
|
RefinedUndefined posted:Perhaps the killer, after grabbing a pair of goggles and stashing them somewhere nearby, told Nagito about the carpet in the supermarket, thus creating an opportunity to find the goggles. Also, couldn't the killer have gotten the knife from the kitchen of the resturant in the hotel, seeing as there were no knives missing from the lodge's kitchen. Yeah, but that would make the murderer's identity incredibly obvious. I mean, it could happen, but it doesn't seem especially likely right now. Plus it's still just kind of bizarre to plan a murder around the assumption that Nagito would want to get the carpet all the way to the lodge. I'm not too concerned about how the criminal got the knife or whatever the murder weapon was, I was referring specifically to the night vision goggles. The way it stands, I'm more or less comfortable assuming that the goggles were brought by either Nagito or Togami. RefinedUndefined posted:Don't take this as fact, but when we met Nidai on the way to the hall before the meal, didn't he say something about the restroom being locked? If so, then can't we assume the door remained locked all this time? I'll be honest, I have no idea because we don't really know what the hell is up with that door. I can think of a few ways to work around that("Gangster dude is the one who locked it because he had the key somehow because he's whatever") but none of them have any logic behind it, so I'll just put that theory on the backburner for now. I mean it didn't look very likely to start with, but you know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:49
|
|
|
Sherringford posted:Yeah, but that would make the murderer's identity incredibly obvious. I mean, it could happen, but it doesn't seem especially likely right now. Plus it's still just kind of bizarre to plan a murder around the assumption that Nagito would want to get the carpet all the way to the lodge. I'm not too concerned about how the criminal got the knife or whatever the murder weapon was, I was referring specifically to the night vision goggles. The way it stands, I'm more or less comfortable assuming that the goggles were brought by either Nagito or Togami. Okay, so my suggestion about the murderer creating an opportunity to hide their equipment is wrong, but I still think that the knife came from the resturant's kitchen and not the lodge's kitchen, besides, the culprit could have snuck into the lodge, hidden the knife in the office, then picked it up later, although when it got hidden under the table, if it actually did, is something I can't figure out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Personally, I'm more curious about the taped up knife. Who taped it there? It can't have somehow come from the Peko-box, because it was taped under the table(and seemingly glowing), which doesn't make much sense. if you somehow went and grabbed it from the Peko-box during the blackout, taping it under the table and then using it would be weird. It's not a knife from the kitchen, because they were all accounted for (and shoved into the Peko-box), except for a single skewer. Nagito was around all the time, except for when he went to the store to get a carpet, so no one could have put the knife up outside of that timeframe. Hanamura was in the kitchen, but as far as we know, he was in the kitchen all day. He didn't have time to get a knife from outside. This leaves us with the only reasonable suspect for taping the knife there being Nagito after he returned from the convenience store (where he might have grabbed a knife in addition to the carpet.) If we listen to what's going on during the blackout. Togami: "What are you doing?" Togami: "Stop it!!" Someone, as far as I can hear it's Nagito, but I'm not completely sure of that: "Ow" First of all I think this shows that Togami was the one with the night vision glasses. There's something going on which he doesn't like one bit, followed by someone saying ow. Considering that there doesn't seem to be blood anywhere else, I think it's safe to assume he was stabbed where he was found. Presumably he went under the table to grab the knife after having had a minor scuffle with someone in the dark... and this is where things get hairy. There are essentially two competing hypotheses. Hypothesis 1: whoever he yelled at and made say "ow" had a second weapon (the skewer?). Problems with this hypothesis: It is weird to have a plan with a knife taped up under a table if you already have a weapon within range you can use if you can't get the knife. If this hypothesis holds, the murderer seems to be Nagito Hypothesis 2: Whoever he yelled at and made say "ow" didn't kill Togami, being unarmed. This would necessitate that we have two attempted murderers, one successful one and one less successful one. Problems with this hypothesis: This would require two possible murderers who both knew ahead of time that there was going to be a blackout. One hid a skewer and the other hid a knife. If this hypothesis holds, the murderer seems to be Hanamura Someone hid the skewer, and if it isn't Nagito (in which case we're pretty much back at Hypothesis 1), then it has to be Hanamura. Judging from the fact that the blood is in a pool underneath Togami's body, he would have to be attacked from below (possibly from the front for a stab to the chest), but Togami can see in the dark, Nagito wouldn't be able to, and I doubt Nagito would attack Togami from the front with a skewer, knowing that Togami can see him. I think I have a little bit more confidence in Hypothesis 2, but, well, we just don't have enough knowledge to say for sure yet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 20:56
|
|
|
Sherringford posted:Yeah, but the hard part wouldn't be getting the goggles so much as getting them to the party unnoticed. I know you just pointed out he said he'd only do it for dangerous items, but I can't really imagine him not confiscating them given how paranoid he acted up to that point. I mean, I can't imagine him checking everybody for items that could be used in a murder, finding night vision goggles and going "That seems safe enough." The only issue with that assumption is that it requires the killer to have gotten the goggles there before the party. I'll meet you halfway: I don't know that I agree that he'd consider goggles as a potential murder weapon or accessory, though it's a possibility. Either way, Togami would've discovered them on his search of everyone, so they must have been planted beforehand or snuck past him somehow. Now another weird problem: blood. Someone stabbed Togami while standing up, and moved the body under the table. (No one heard the body drop? He's a big guy!) They did this without getting blood on themselves, or the floor. I guess this only works with the skewer, since the entry point is so small, but realistically, I'd have to imagine there'd be way more blood if he were stabbed in the heart. That's more of a "what the hell game?" point than any sort of theory. The only sort of events with the actual stabbing I can think of are: - Lights go out - Killer stabs Togami in the commotion - Manages to drag the body under the table - Removes skewer then (because otherwise, I'd have to image blood would spurt out) - Disposes of goggles - Lights come back on Exercu posted:Personally, I'm more curious about the taped up knife. Who taped it there? It can't have somehow come from the Peko-box, because it was taped under the table(and seemingly glowing) Glow in the dark knife? I'd have to imagine other people would've seen it, though. edit: Wait, if it is the skewer, why's the knife bloody? slowbeef fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:04
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:Now another weird problem: blood. I think that, given the amount of blood on the inside of the tablecloth, Togami was already under the table when he was stabbed. I mean, there's no blood anywhere else that we've seen, but there's a whole lot under the table. If the murder weapon was the missing skewer, that's pretty similar looking to a sword, and there is a SHSL Swordslady in the midst of all this. It's kind of a leap, but being able to stab someone accurately in the dark with everyone panicking does seem like part of her skill set.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:19
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:Someone stabbed Togami while standing up, and moved the body under the table. (No one heard the body drop? He's a big guy!) They did this without getting blood on themselves, or the floor. Huh, I hadn't noticed that nobody had heard his body drop, nice catch. The best explanation I can think of for people not hearing that is that his body didn't drop at all. If he was hiding under the table and then got stabbed, I think that would clear up the issues you mentioned. It would explain how the body got there without any apparent blood on the floor and why nobody heard his body drop. If he was already hiding under the table to start with, it might also be possible that the criminal only got his hand/sleeve covered in blood if he was lucky enough with the angle of the stabbing and then just cleaned that off with a napkin or something. It wouldn't be as much blood as he would have gotten on him if Togami was stabbed while standing in front of him, at least. This scenario would be something like: - Lights go out. - Togami hides under the table for some reason. - Killer goes under the table to kill Togami. Assuming the killer was the one with the night vision goggles, it would be easy to explain why Togami didn't fight back(angle/couldn't see) but there would still be a weird question kind of hanging in the air. I think that scenario would explain a lot, but if it were true, why would the night-vision-goggles wearing criminal go for Togami, who apparently hid under a table? It sounds like a weird victim choice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:21
|
|
|
I just realized that this is the first kind of murder that occured with nearly all the characters in the same room. This is definitely more complex than the previous game's cases. Though I'm sure the scope of suspects will narrow down once we investigate the murder weapon and check the bathroom/carpet/weapon locker. Those seem to be the key points here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:25
|
|
|
RefinedUndefined posted:Don't take this as fact, but when we met Nidai on the way to the hall before the meal, didn't he say something about the restroom being locked? If so, then can't we assume the door remained locked all this time? Sherringford posted:I'll be honest, I have no idea because we don't really know what the hell is up with that door. I can think of a few ways to work around that("Gangster dude is the one who locked it because he had the key somehow because he's whatever") but none of them have any logic behind it, so I'll just put that theory on the backburner for now. I mean it didn't look very likely to start with, but you know. Makin' use of our shiny new Table of Contents (Rith, you're awesome): he does say that he thinks that the door has been locked for literally the entire party in update 24, after the lights-out (so RefinedUndefined is right that the game expects us to think the washroom has never been unlocked at any point while we've been here because of Nidai, but he's wrong about all the details): orenronen posted:Um... I'm supposed to go search the entrance. Nanami should still be there, too. He's seen waiting in the hallway, near the kitchen, back in update 22, but he doesn't start complaining about the toilet until later. Personally, I think this is evidence that Kuzuryuu has been hiding in the washroom for... some reason or another. Nidai keeps wording it as "someone is in the washroom and has been the entire party", not just "the washroom is locked"; I could be really easily be overhasty in judging this point but I think this gives us some reason to think that there really is someone in there and it's not just locked. It's usually easy to hear running water or flushing toilets or someone thumping around or something. But we've seen every other character at the party in some capacity since entering the lodge, so either Nidai is wrong about what he's saying in some way (i.e., maybe it's just locked and he's wrong in his judgement that someone is inside; maybe people have been coming and going and he just keeps missing a moment when it's free) or he's right, and the person inside is Kuzuryuu, because Kuzuryuu is the only washroom-occupant who is a logical possibility prior to the blackout. slowbeef posted:edit: Wait, if it is the skewer, why's the knife bloody? And if it's a stabbing, why's only one side of the knife bloody? (unless rather than being stabbed, his throat was cut or something (which could explain why we didn't hear him shout when he was attacked or anything)) or the knife's blood patterns could just be an art quirk
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:26
|
|
But we can't just leave the people on the way alone, can we?
Nuuuuuu...
W...What are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be checking the toilet?
S...Someone is using it...
YOU FIEND! KEEPING THE CRAPPER TO YOURSELF IS EXTREMELY INCONSIDERATE!
Guwaaaaaah! The more I hold it the more it keeps piling up!
|
Sherringford posted:- Lights go out. If that knife were, say, taped to the underside of the table, there's a couple explanations. 1. To be safe, Togami taped a knife under the table. When the lights go out, he realizes he might get killed. He goes under the table to get the knife and defend himself. Killer has night vision (and maybe is already there), and stabs him first as he's trying to get the knife. 2. Togami was always planning to kill someone at the party. He retrieves all weapons, has the knife planted, and is overcome by someone else with a similar plan (or self defense I guess?)... and then that's where I start to lose the theory. I kinda like the notion that Togami was lying the whole time, and planning to kill someone. But I can't imagine him wanting the blackout without the night vision, nor can I imagine the killer being able to kill him without the night vision. Since there's only one set of goggles (presumably), I don't know if Togami was planning to kill someone in the dark (which seems hard and unlikely), or if he had the goggles and the killer managed to kill him in the dark? edit: Odds on Mahiru having a night-vision feature on the camera? Wait no, double night-vision makes no sense. Presumably only one person knew about the blackout beforehand and had the goggles. slowbeef fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:44
|
|
|
Falls Down Stairs posted:And if it's a stabbing, why's only one side of the knife bloody? (unless rather than being stabbed, his throat was cut or something (which could explain why we didn't hear him shout when he was attacked or anything)) or the knife's blood patterns could just be an art quirk Now that you mention it, the blood on the knife is a little thicker towards Togami. So either his throat was slit, the blood was simply spilled onto the knife (if the investigation were to show that the hidden side is clean, this would virtually confirm it), or it's just the way they drew the blood. It's hard to imagine that Togami was killed anywhere but underneath the table. Given the amount he's bled out, there's no way in hell dragging the corpse wouldn't leave a bloody trail, and as Slowbeef pointed out, a big ol' fatass like Togami would've definitely made a commotion if he were to tumble over during the blackout. Also, this could just be me, but if you listen to the voice clips during the blackout, Togami's sounds slightly muffled, like he's a little ways away. And judging from his dialogue, he definitely seemed to be in confrontation with someone as opposed to, say, somebody planting the skewer as a trap. So somebody definitely could've been under the table with him and stabbed him with the skewer under there, perhaps wearing the nightvision goggles. If Togami was wearing the goggles to begin with, you would think he'd still be wearing them after his death, but the killer definitely had time to manipulate the body, so that's not a guarantee. Or perhaps Togami had the goggles, put them on during the blackout, saw somebody (Nagito?) ducking under the table ("Hey, what are you doing?") and went after them, but then somebody ELSE in the crawlspace stabbed upwards and killed Togami. Then the knife murderer, thinking they killed Togami, could remove his goggles and set it up so that Togami was going for the knife to begin with, but it turns out someone completely different (Kuzuryuu?) actually landed the killing blow. I think it'd be pretty fun if the first case were just a clusterfuck of murder attempts, ya know? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 21:50
|
|
|
 Map of the lodge. Note that if we can trust Souda, and we're assuming the passageway is from the locked bathroom to the main room, the killer has to leave the room into the main hallway in order to trip circuits (in the office). Souda should've run into them when the lights came back on. One thing I just don't get. You're the killer (and presumably not Togami). You have this plan to turn off the power, and kill someone in the dark. Okay. You take the night vision off for some reason or the other... ...How do you see to get out of the room and turn the lights back on? I didn't like the timed power outage theory (i.e. some mechanism does it for them), but maybe that's the only way this works. Killer knows the lights will be back on soon, so they have to ditch the goggles in order not to get caught red-handed with them. Or maybe pink-handed as the case may be. One last thing. Note that Togami's wound seems to be under his body. I didn't love the "stabbed from under the floor" theory, but unless the killer rolled him over or something, it seems like that's the only way?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:01
|
|
|
I'm going to revise my earlier theory because it didn't account for the missing skewer. I still think Hanamura was the culprit, but I also think that Nagito attempted and failed to murder someone. Nagito planted the knife under the table with glow-in-the-dark tape while he was cleaning the lodge, with the intention of stabbing someone once the lights went out. Hanamura was also in the lodge and saw Nagito placing the knife there. He came up with a plan to hide under the floorboards, wait until Nagito went for the knife and then stab him with the skewer. Things didn't go according to plan, because Togami had a pair of nightvision goggles and saw Nagito going for the knife. This is when Togami said 'Oy, what are you doing?' He pushed Nagito out of the way and Nagito said 'ow'. Togami crawled under the table to grab the knife. Then Hanamura stabbed Togami through the floorboards, thinking it was Nagito. The main problem with this theory is that it doesn't account for the huge bloodstains on the tablecloth next to Togami. If he was stabbed from below, the blood couldn't have splattered on it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:03
|
|
|
One thing that's been bothering me - supposing the killer had some sort of extremely well hidden place to keep his night vision goggles in that he could get them in the dark despite not seeing a thing...why did he not put them back there? It would be one less piece of evidence to explain how he killed Togami. If Togami's the one who had the goggles though, that would explain why he never put them away. Being kind of dead and all.slowbeef posted:One last thing. Note that Togami's wound seems to be under his body. I didn't love the "stabbed from under the floor" theory, but unless the killer rolled him over or something, it seems like that's the only way? Not the only way, but yeah it's the most probable one. He could also have been crawling on the floor and looking up when the night-vision murderer stabbed him in the chest. But it's kind of a weird angle to imagine. If he was stabbed from under the floor, that would account for all contradictions save for one. How would the murderer know where Togami was? If the attack came from under, the goggles definitely didn't belong to the killer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
edit: Missed a whole extra page.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
One reason Togami could have gone under the table would be if it were close enough to wherever the Togami Box was placed that while guarding it during the blackout he heard someone else rustling under the table (presumably fetching the taped knife).Sherringford posted:That would mean that either Nagito is the killer(since he would be the only one who could have reasonably used them) or that the glasses belonged to Togami. Is there a reason you don't think Hanamura could have prepped the nightvision? He would have had roughly as much relative freedom to move about the cabin without suspicion as Nagito and would have had ample opportunity to smuggle in a pair while carting in food from the supermarket (he could have gotten some food from the storage room but I doubt he'd limit himself to that stuff). If he had access to the crawlspace under the lodge (and this is a big if for all potential killers, since even if the floorboards are in terrible enough shape that one could pry open an entrance anywhere, you would need to do it in a space that no one would notice easily) stashing them somewhere Togami and Hinata couldn't notice in their search would be easy. The bathroom door is definitely interesting. It could simply have been locked while the door is open and then closed (two of the bathrooms in my house can let you lock yourself out like this, requiring either the key or to pick the lock) solely to keep people from using the bathroom, or it was locked and then exited another way (crawlspace?). I'm not sure why someone would put a crawlspace entrance in the bathroom, it could be because they possess the key to open it (preventing others from finding the crawlspace) or maybe it's supposed to be accessed from another crawlspace, and they stored the nightvision or skewer or something there (seems more complicated than just leaving it in the dirt). Edit: Yeah, idea of a guy with nightvision attacking from the crawlspace really does seem to contradict where the nightvision ended up. I think I'm gonna stop speculating at this point because there are just too many unanswered questions to do much more good. Also, can't wait until we get to see what the new "Box X" theme is (please let there be a new "Box X" theme). Rawkking fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:12
|
|
|
Sherringford posted:Not the only way, but yeah it's the most probable one. He could also have been crawling on the floor and looking up when the night-vision murderer stabbed him in the chest. But it's kind of a weird angle to imagine. If he was stabbed from under the floor, that would account for all contradictions save for one. How would the murderer know where Togami was? If the attack came from under, the goggles definitely didn't belong to the killer. That one is easy to explain if we assume whoever attacked Togami had prior knowledge of where the knife was hidden. Plus if the knife was taped to the underside of the table with fluorescent tape, the killer would probably be able to see the green glow between the cracks of the floor and guess where the person above would most likely be. That table is only so big and any stab near the tape would more than likely hit someone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:15
|
|
|
Meeks Sisu posted:I'm going to revise my earlier theory because it didn't account for the missing skewer. I still think Hanamura was the culprit, but I also think that Nagito attempted and failed to murder someone. Nagito planted the knife under the table with glow-in-the-dark tape while he was cleaning the lodge, with the intention of stabbing someone once the lights went out. Hanamura was also in the lodge and saw Nagito placing the knife there. He came up with a plan to hide under the floorboards, wait until Nagito went for the knife and then stab him with the skewer. I think we both came up with the same theory just now, unless you were going off of my suggestion. Suddenly this sounds extremely plausible. I'm not sure we can pin any name on it just yet, but it could've easily been Kuzuryuu as well, if he'd been snooping around underneath and noticed the bright green glowtape underneath the table. Perhaps he busted his way out of the crawlspace through the bathroom, snuck into the kitchen before the party, swiped a skewer, headed back into the bathroom, locked it, and ducked back into the crawlspace. Then he would've figured that SOMEBODY would go for the knife under the table at some point and simply waited for that to happen. Then blackout, Nagito goes for knife, Togami sees him, Togami pushes him, Togami goes for knife, Kuzuryuu stabs Togami. As you said, though, there's still an awful lot of blood on that cloth for a single stab from below, though Togami could have flailed around a bit before dying. There are multiple possible suspects, but there are two reasons I think Kuzuryuu is a plausible murderer. 1) He has an alibi in that he was not present at the party and couldn't possibly know what was going on. Finding out about the crawlspace would disprove this. 2) They may have taken some liberty on this one, but wouldn't somebody crawling around underneath the cabin be totally filthy and covered in cobwebs and stuff? If the cabin itself was a huge mess, you can imagine how nightmarish the space under it is. Again, there are other possible culprits here, but I really like the sound of Togami pushing the would-be murderer out of the way and taking the fall for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 08:50 |
|
|
slowbeef posted:One last thing. Note that Togami's wound seems to be under his body. I didn't love the "stabbed from under the floor" theory, but unless the killer rolled him over or something, it seems like that's the only way? Well, he is rather round... since there is no blood trail, if he was killed near the table "rolling" him isn't too out of the question. Otherwise I think there are maybe 2 people strong enough to move Togami; Nidai and Oowari, and neither of them seem like killers... EDIT: Just caught the blood splash on the back. Sorry if it's been pointed out, but... how did the blood get on the outside right side of the cloth? is it supposed to be so thick as not to sink through? Gensuki fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2013 22:19
|
|
