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frajaq posted:But like you said the biggest problem is the motive really! I can't think of any reason for them to kill eachother without obvious motives like money in DR1. Erm. The motive is survival. Monobear's game is ultimately kill or be killed.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:16
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slowbeef posted:It seems like they'd plan for the lights to go out, and plan to go under the table where the knife is... but they probably didn't intend for Togami to don night vision and follow them. So Togami gets his night vision, sees someone under the table, and the person - having been caught - stabs him instead... somehow without getting blood on themselves.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:25
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slowbeef posted:It seems like they'd plan for the lights to go out, and plan to go under the table where the knife is... but they probably didn't intend for Togami to don night vision and follow them. So Togami gets his night vision, sees someone under the table, and the person - having been caught - stabs him instead... somehow without getting blood on themselves. The glowing knife was probably a red herring because if it were used in the stabbing, the blood on the knife would have covered on both sides instead of on the edge. Also it would pretty much impossible to stab anyone under the table and not get caught let alone not get blood on them and do it eight times without any obvious struggling. What could have happen is that the knife would bait Togami since he was looking out for dangerous weapons and when he gets to the knife, the glow would be covered up and anyone under the floorboards would know someone is there and done the deed there.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:34
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slowbeef posted:If Togami was stabbed from below, I guess that means whoever was under the floorboards didn't intend to kill him. Maybe they attempted to sneak out and try and kill Pekoyama or Chiaki? I think Nagito almost certainly set up the knife and blackout, went to murder someone, struggled with Togami and ended up stabbing him non-fatally (or perhaps Togami actually stabbed himself by accident when Nagito let go of the knife, who knows). copy just had a theory that explains the rest, though - another person found the knife beforehand and surmised that someone was going to grab it during the party. If that were the case, knowing that someone would unobtrusively get under the table, they would have been free to just wait under the floorboards in that specific spot and stab upwards when they heard movement. If the killer was someone known to be out of the room at the time, it would give them both time to clean themselves up and a good alibi; after all, they weren't even present when the murder took place, right? theshim posted:Speaking of which, if Togami was stabbed through the floorboards with the skewer, as people are theorizing, the slats should still have allowed a good amount of blood through. I have to wonder - if the murderer ended up bloody, what did they do about it? Ha, that actually makes me think of the cook. He'd have access to plenty of aprons, and it probably wouldn't be too suspicious if one of them were blood-spattered. Quick to change out of, too.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:37
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I personally think the knife was set up as bait for Togami to notice with the night vision goggles so the murderer could get him into position to skewer him from below. Given his "security paranoia" he might just check below the tables too so he'd notice the glow?
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Feb 27, 2013 18:47
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Zandar posted:Ha, that actually makes me think of the cook. He'd have access to plenty of aprons, and it probably wouldn't be too suspicious if one of them were blood-spattered. Quick to change out of, too. There's getting blood on your apron from really fresh meet, and there's getting blood all over your apron from the ludicrous amount of murder blood in Togami's murder body.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:50
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doomfunk posted:There's getting blood on your apron from really fresh meet, and there's getting blood all over your apron from the ludicrous amount of murder blood in Togami's murder body. Plus:  B...Blood...? Isn't that strange? I haven't made any rare meat today...
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Feb 27, 2013 18:58
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Plus: One hopes that, regardless of how the meat was cooked, it started out fresh.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:01
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That investigation music is groovy  Something I haven't seen anyone mention- Mikan seems really suspicious here, to me. She's the first thing everyone notices when the lights come back on, and she's mysteriously spilled her rear end all over the ground. What if she was like that because she had just emerged from under the floorboards and tried to pull attention away from that? I mean, she managed to pull some food with her, so maybe she was crawling out from under a table? She said she got her foot stuck on the carpet, but there could have been some loose boards underneath there or something. She also seems like exactly the type that would panic and stab Togami 8(?) times instead of doing it cleanly. It's the only way I can think that that stupid pose is relevant to the case at all. E: Also: Falls Down Stairs posted:
Yeah, that's really strange to me. I'm pretty sure Hinata hasn't said a thing about that to anyone, and Nagito specifically mentioned he didn't remember Hinata from the web research he did. Something is fishy with that. DeathBySpoon fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 19:18
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I think Gundam's Earring is really to demonstrate that the killer had to be underneath the floorboards in order to kill Togami; that there is no easy way to reach under the floor for anything. for that, the answer may lie in the bathroom. it being locked the whole time would mean the way to get under the floor may be in there, and they did not want anyone to find that. though until we get to investigate the rest of the place that is all I got. As for potential suspects, Everyone in the pictures (including Mahiru) are innocent (though I do agree Nagito is still under suspect) assuming the blackout only lasted a few moments, otherwise ignore this statement. If the blackout was orchestrated by overloading the system, Peko is innocent, as her only role was to flip the beaker to get the power back on. Chiaki can have Monomi vouch for her, though depending on what Monomi say this could also implicate Chiaki if they only met up seconds before Hinata found them. However anything Monomi says can be taken suspect even though I would think even Monobear wants them to find the killer at this point of the game. Hanamura was bringing food from the kitchen, but that gives him opportunity to get to the bathroom or wherever the way into the crawlspace is. Kuzuryuu was missing the entire time, but that just seems way too obvious; though that is the type of obvious a first case sometimes has. I forget if i have missed anyone. Finally, a bit of wild, baseless speculation: Togami is actually Togami Juinor. His dark past that would place him under suspect is that his mother is a Serial Killer. The other theory is Togami was the traitor, if there were no murders it would be up to him to break the ice, much like the deal Monobear had with Soraka in DR1, and his memories of Hope's Peak are still intact. Both of these theories would support how him being fat is no big deal to himself.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:50
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The way I see it, the fanservice evidence is there to point to the carpet being messed with. As I recall, Nagito made a big deal about choosing that carpet for the room, and it's entirely possible that he could have found some sort of access underneath the floor that he wanted to keep a secret when he initially came to the cabin. I also somewhat wonder how luminescent that tape is supposed to be, because I noticed the table that Togami was under was not only covered on all sides by the tablecloth, but was also completely off the carpet so that the tape could maybe be seen from underneath. Also, that is a lot of poop for an animal that supposedly starved to death. Where did you get all that poop Chibimi!
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Feb 27, 2013 19:57
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So I posted a big theory earlier and it still mostly holds up with this new information, though the reasoning for explicitly painting the tape with luminescent paint is a bit bewildering. The long of the short of it, with revisions, is as follows: -Nagito planted the knife and rigged the power to go out. -Togami whipped out the goggles and saw Nagito ducking under the table. -Togami went under the table after him, but Nagito stabbed him with the knife and ran off. -Togami attempted to retrieve the knife, at which point somebody beneath the floorboards stabbed him with the skewer like crazy, probably to ensure his victim was thoroughly dead. Until we see where you can access the crawlspace, the identity of the real culprit is up in the air. -Mikan was either intentionally creating a distraction or it was a happy coincidence for Nagito/the killer. Whoever flipped the power back on or returned from the crawlspace could slip in without drawing attention. I have a feeling Nagito thought he was the murderer until the autopsy showed multiple stabbings, which would explain why he was so determined to prove that none of them killed Togami, which he declared before the Monobear file was provided. When he said that, he had assumed that his single stab did Togami in. Also, Nagito likely put laxatives in Peko's meal, leaving the fuse box unmanned (so the power wouldn't immediately be flipped back on), the bathroom occupied, and all the suspicion on her. Gundam's earring seems to be a way of establishing that there is space underneath the floor and cracks big enough to slip things through. Again, I'm just waiting to see how you get to the crawlspace before pointing any fingers. If you can only enter from outside, my money's on Kuzuryuu, but if it's inside, it'll depend on the location and who had access to it. Oh, and the new investigation music is loving rad! I've been waiting so long for it, I'm not disappointed.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:27
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quote:- if the murderer ended up bloody, what did they do about it? In my oppinion, we don't know enough to really speculate too much, but I do think this is a reasonable point. To me, this makes me more suspicious of the person in the bathroom, as it would be an extremely easy place to pull off a murder from. Step 1: Lock yourself in bathroom with weapons, tools, whatever at the start of the party. No one sees you go in, so you can have whatever equipment you need with you without being suspicious. Step 2: Go underneath the easily removable floorboards, keeping the door locked so no one can follow you. Step 3: ULTIMATE DESPAIR (murder) Step 4: Return to bathroom, fix floorboards, while leaving equipment used locked away under the ground or at the sight of the murder, really anywhere not directly traceable back to you. Step 5: Wash blood off (which of course is pretty easily doable in a bathroom which could even have a shower in it for all we know!) Step 6: Hope to dear god Nidai doesn't kill you... The only problem with that, is you would have a crappy alibi. That's really all I am willing to make of this case so far. Of course we all have our ideas and such, just feel it's too early to draw wild conclusions.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:23
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Yeah, this is how I see things happening, and why I still think Pekoyama's the most likely culprit. Presumably there's towels in the bathroom which the murderer could have wrapped around him or herself to protect their clothes from getting bloody and dirty. They could then dump the towels underneath the house...? Okay, that's not a good disposal method but it's better than leaving them in the bathroom or showing up covered in blood.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:34
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 Presumably, the goggles are Togami's, and he was using them to see in the dark and prevent any murder attempts. So... why isn't his corpse still wearing them? The way his body fell, there's no way the goggles popped off his head and landed facing the direction they're facing (unless that's just artistic license to give the players a clear view of what they are). Which would mean someone pulled the goggles off him before the lights came back up and the body was revealed. But why would they do that? I doubt it'll be important in the grand scheme of things, but it's really bugging the hell out of me.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:46
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Fumbling for them in the dark in a hurry, he didn't manage to get the strap over his head and just held them in front of his face?
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Feb 27, 2013 21:49
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W.T. Fits posted:
Maybe he took them off himself, realizing the cause of the blackout and coming to the conclusion that he may not need the goggles for long once he apprehends the miscreant, not to mention the glow-in-the-dark paint will show him where the knife wielder is, for even if they put it down, the paint may rub off onto their palms.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:50
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gegi posted:Fumbling for them in the dark in a hurry, he didn't manage to get the strap over his head and just held them in front of his face? Not to mention he'd be wearing them over his glasses. In the heat of the moment, it might've been more prudent to hold them like binoculars rather than strap them on properly.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:52
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If someone shadowed Togami while he loaded up his case at the supermarket, they could kill him by coming up with one thing they know he doesn't expect. All the have to do after that is not get caught, ie make it really confusing who did it. I don't think he saw the blackout/night vision coming. Otherwise he could've hosed that murder attempt with a bright light. If this is true then the goggles were planted. I also think that a smart culprit would carry night vision goggles, a luminous knife and luminous tape to plant at the scene of the crime. Could have been under the building, in order to be pulled up and planted in a more obvious place to implicate Nagito. The bottom of the building could be accessed from outside--the lattice around it probably doesn't extend around the entire building, that or there's a trapdoor inside the building to get down there.  My pet theory is that it was Kuzuryuu and Peko. Three reasons for Peko are the following: she's been the only one in contact with Kuzuryuu for a while and told everyone he wouldn't come to the party, so it would start without him; Togami didn't confiscate her weapon, which to me means that he underestimated her (kind of a double standard, taking Souda's wrench and not her practice sword); and I didn't hear her call out during the blackout, even though Teruteru called out despite being in the kitchen, and Sonia and Souda called out something about the circuit breakers and going to the office where she should have been. Also the character reason is she was threatening to smash the protagonist's nuts with her wooden sword even before Monobear showed up, she and Kuzuryuu were the only ones who were introduced as serious and violent. My reason for Kuzuryuu is that no one thinks he's coming to the party because of what Peko said, and he's a murderous criminal probably well-versed in committing crimes and evading justice by pinning them on someone else or making it look like an accident or otherwise confounding trials. I think it was both of them because Togami is too heavy for one person to lift or quickly or quietly drag, and I don't think he was lured to the place his body was found, I think he was jumped before he could arm himself. However I don't even lift so maybe a 42kg man or 51kg woman could lug a 130kg resisting or limp body around alone, in that case Kuzuryuu could've sneaked into the building once Peko signaled him that the party was starting and hidden in the bathroom or the office, both near the entrance, with murder implements.  Alternatively if there's a trapdoor or any of the lovely floorboards are loose or broken (the building was due for reconstruction after all) he could hide under the building there, say under the bathroom, office, or most likely storage room. They wait for 1130, and either wait for the AC to turn off the lights or throw the breakers, then don their night vision goggles, rush out to the big guy, overpower him with two people, drag him under a table maybe with the help of a table cloth, murder him at some point and plant the murder weapon, tape, and maybe Peko's goggles right next to the body so it's guaranteed to be found and implicate Nagito. They could even have set the AC timer in the dark if it was separate from the lights. Then he makes his getaway then Peko turns on the lights. If Kuzuryuu could get his pair of goggles back to the supermarket it'd be really hard to pin the murder on him. The problem with that plan is Nanami and the bunny are keeping watch outside the building, and Peko might not even know (she left for guard duty last hearing that it was Togami's "one last thing" before the party would start, and then Nanami thought up keeping watch afterwards when he said "oh and one more thing") so it's possible that the signal to enter got hosed and with it, the ability to flee the scene until she left her post, which she just did. That might have been enough to cause some panicked evidence disposal or other mistake. I'd like to think Kuzuryuu is hiding in the bathroom while Nidai craps some vile bodybuilder crap.
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Feb 27, 2013 22:01
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W.T. Fits posted:
When he fell onto the floor face down the goggles fell off as they would not be able to stay on at that position.
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Feb 27, 2013 22:53
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Not sure if this has been stated yet, but the game threw some 'I'm Naegi!' flags with the ending of that update. I'm guessing Nagito found out about the AC being able to cut out the power while he was cleaning, because i'm sure it got hot while he was in there and tried to use the AC only to be in the dark. It's very hard to think of what this game is going to do next because they don't follow common tropes, but in a way they actually do. I'm basically thinking that Nagito killed Togami and they are just going to get both recurring characters out of the way to troll the players of DR1 from thinking they actually had a big role in the story.  EDIT: Reading a few posts up I see that it was predicted. I need to learn to read comments instead of posting right after I read the update. ZeroCaim fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 23:26
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If Nagito found out that the power cuts out by testing the AC earlier, wouldn't The Cook be able to tell the others? He's been there just as long as Nagito and would have known if the power had gone out earlier. I guess it can still come up but I think he might have mentioned something by now.
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Feb 28, 2013 04:10
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DapperDinosaur posted:If Nagito found out that the power cuts out by testing the AC earlier, wouldn't The Cook be able to tell the others? He's been there just as long as Nagito and would have known if the power had gone out earlier. I guess it can still come up but I think he might have mentioned something by now. Nah, Nagito was in there all day cleaning up, he'd have plenty of time to test out things like the AC without anyone around.
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Feb 28, 2013 04:15
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The ways an update can change a theory =/ Togami probably wasn't even wearing the goggles, but just looking through them. If he needs his glasses to see further, he'd have to hold up the goggles in front of them. So It doesn't look like togami was targeted, it looks more like he saw someone doing something suspicious, and it turned into murder. The fact that Togami saw them and walked over to them, must mean the culprit wasn't attacking him from under the floor boards by surprise, but in plain sight after Togami approached them. Then afterwards, the culprit escaped under the floorboards, and came up elsewhere. Its possible they cleaned up and rejoined the group, or could still be hiding somewhere. Joenen fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 06:21
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slowbeef posted:If Togami was stabbed from below, I guess that means whoever was under the floorboards didn't intend to kill him. Maybe they attempted to sneak out and try and kill Pekoyama or Chiaki? How did you come to that conclusion? I'm not following.
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Feb 28, 2013 06:21
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zetsubous posted:How did you come to that conclusion? I'm not following. I suspect the cracks in the floor are big enough for someone under them to discern some things above them. The person below the floorboards would have at least seen Togami's white suit, I think.
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Feb 28, 2013 06:38
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JT Jag posted:The person below the floorboards would have at least seen Togami's white suit, I think. The person under the floor boards would have seen the glow of the knife through the cracks, and then absolutely nothing (because a human body is blocking out the glow from the knife and it's pitch black in that room). The nothing would be the signal to start stabbing indiscriminately upwards.
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Feb 28, 2013 06:40
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JT Jag posted:How would they have known that it was specifically Togami that they were stabbing, is probably the point slowbeef is trying to make. That should be obvious, but I share the confusion as to how that means the killer was trying to get to Pekoyama or Chiaki (who obviously weren't hiding under the table), as opposed to the killer being Pekoyama or Chiaki.
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Feb 28, 2013 09:42
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JT Jag posted:How would they have known that it was specifically Togami that they were stabbing, is probably the point slowbeef is trying to make. Ah, okay. I misread that as, they were intending to do something other than kill him. As for that, though, I'm not sure -- they might have planted the knife and the tape, knowing that Togami's obsessiveness about keeping everyone safe (or depriving everyone of weapons) would make him go for it if he spotted it. Also, we're not sure right now if the knife was removed from the underside of the table before or after Togami was murdered. For example, it could have been placed there beforehand to make it look like someone was taking it down. That would also explain how the blood splattered onto it in the way it did. And if so, the glow tape would have illuminated Togami's body at least a little bit.
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Feb 28, 2013 13:05
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fool_of_sound posted:Erm. The motive is survival. Monobear's game is ultimately kill or be killed. Of course, in the first game the students who killed or attempted to kill had deeper motives for their actions beyond simply "wanting to escape". For instance, the videos in the first game's opening chapter provided a motive for Maizono to attempt murder to escape, by playing on her fears of what had happened on the outside. I could see "kill or be killed" as a motive in the later chapters after the students have seen their classmates start killing each other, but at this point, who's going to be paranoid enough to strike the first blow? What will end up pushing someone to attempt (or succeed in) murder? For this chapter, I see two obvious "motives" in play. 1. The traitor. - Either the traitor themselves ended up killing out of fear of being exposed, or someone else suspected another student of being the traitor and attempted to kill them out of paranoia. It remains to be seen whether Togami was the intended target, or if he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because of the possibility of Togami being the traitor, this seems like the more plausible motive to me. 2. Monobear's claim of stolen memories, and promise to restore them. - This seems like the weaker motive, because the idea of memory alteration would be harder to swallow than the possibility of a traitor for students unfamiliar with the way Monobear works. After all, who's actually going to believe the bear's wild fish tale about Monomi erasing their memories? Unless, of course, Monobear planted evidence in the lodge to back up his claims(such as one of those mysterious photos that the students don't remember taking), in order to convince one of the students that the story was true. Now I'm curious as to what could be in that dusty storage room...
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Feb 28, 2013 14:16
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tiistai posted:That should be obvious, but I share the confusion as to how that means the killer was trying to get to Pekoyama or Chiaki (who obviously weren't hiding under the table), as opposed to the killer being Pekoyama or Chiaki. My point is that it's a LOT of assumption to say the killer knew in advance that Togami had night vision and could see you in the dark. I'm contending it's far more likely the killer wanted to sneak out and kill someone else in the confusion, but ended up caught by Togami as they were trying to escape... Under the table, I guess. I don't know that the killer planned to stab someone from under the floor at all, initially. Even if you figure on night vision, that's still a lot of assumption that he'd even follow you. If there is a trapdoor or something under the table, it'd seem like Togami's now on top of it, so I wouldn't get how the killer could get back into the room unnoticed. edit: To be clearer now that I'm off mobile; there's just a lot of variables in "If I cause a blackout, I'm gonna bet that Togami brought night vision. I'll make sure he sees me sneaking under a table, wait til he comes, and kill him! ...Why did I bother planting a knife since that doesn't help me cover that plan at all?" slowbeef fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 14:46
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Wyvernil posted:
There's a couple more. Sonia - or one of the people supporting her - might not have liked that Togami more or less usurped her position as leader. Also, Chiaki's a gamer and we're in a murder game. Maybe she wants to win at all costs?
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Feb 28, 2013 15:19
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slowbeef posted:There's a couple more. Sonia - or one of the people supporting her - might not have liked that Togami more or less usurped her position as leader. Considering that the only people we know to be supporting, or possible supporting, Sonia are either a coward, obsessed with his missing ear-ring and the one character who is probably the most broken up by the murder, I think this line of thought may be wrong. Also, if viewed as a game, one could try to find an alternate path to win it, like in the last game, not to mention how Chiaki would probably fall asleep after or even during the murder, I don't believe she did it either.
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Feb 28, 2013 15:45
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slowbeef posted:My point is that it's a LOT of assumption to say the killer knew in advance that Togami had night vision and could see you in the dark. I'm not sure if anyone suggested that. A culprit was planning on killing someone in the room by planting a knife using glowing tape and causing a blackout. When everything went dark, he reached for the knife, but was unexpectedly noticed by the goggle-wearing Togami ("Oy, what are you doing?!"), who crawled under the table either to follow the culprit or to see what he was trying to find there ("Stop it!!"). This much seems more or less clear to me. What happened afterwards is the tricky part. Basically I'm thinking the knife-culprit had to give up and leave the knife while Togami was being skewered from below by another person, probably as an unintended victim. I don't think the would-be culprit was going to kill someone not in the room. Chiaki leaving was unexpected, no way to plan for that. Someone in the office room could maybe have been anticipated if they knew Togami's box needed a guardian, but I don't really see the point in causing a blackout to try and kill the person in the room with the breaker, where someone was bound to go check - not to mention the culprit doesn't seem to have had night vision, so they'd have had to fumble there in the darkness, knife in hand, and then back again before the lights came back on.
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Feb 28, 2013 16:00
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slowbeef posted:My point is that it's a LOT of assumption to say the killer knew in advance that Togami had night vision and could see you in the dark. This has been mentioned before, but the knife probably WAS the trap. It wasn't put there as a potential murder weapon, it was there for Togami to find. They all knew he was on the warpath for dangerous items, so a knife strapped under the table with a luminous patch (or at least a strange glowing object when seen from afar) would be the proverbial red rag to the bull. Togami goes for the knife, killer stabs with the skewer from below through the floorboards, all that's left is the body with a knife bloodied by victim. As to getting back in the room, there are a handful of students that weren't in the room during the blackout. That gives them a much longer timeframe to move freely about in. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 16:41
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RefinedUndefined posted:Considering that the only people we know to be supporting, or possible supporting, Sonia are either a coward, obsessed with his missing ear-ring and the one character who is probably the most broken up by the murder, I think this line of thought may be wrong. Also, if viewed as a game, one could try to find an alternate path to win it, like in the last game, not to mention how Chiaki would probably fall asleep after or even during the murder, I don't believe she did it either. It's not hard to murder someone if you're a coward (or pretending to be). And you can also act like you're broken up about a murder, especially if you're trying to dissuade suspicion. And Chiaki is too lazy to be a suspect? That's a joke, right? I will agree that it's unlikely Gundam would point out the floorboards as a problem if he were involved, assuming the boards are a component of the murder. zetsubous posted:Also, we're not sure right now if the knife was removed from the underside of the table before or after Togami was murdered. For example, it could have been placed there beforehand to make it look like someone was taking it down. That would also explain how the blood splattered onto it in the way it did. And if so, the glow tape would have illuminated Togami's body at least a little bit. But why? Why obfuscate the murder weapon with another weapon in the same place? Your only hope is to frame Nagito who had access to the room. ...Well, okay, why not just use the knife then? Why even involve the skewer? If you were unable to reach the knife, how did you just happen to have the skewer anyway? tiistai posted:That should be obvious, but I share the confusion as to how that means the killer was trying to get to Pekoyama or Chiaki (who obviously weren't hiding under the table), as opposed to the killer being Pekoyama or Chiaki. Because now you have Togami seeing someone sneak into the room from under the table. So how is the killer unable to get the knife? It's right there. Also if the killer came into the room to start with, what happens? Let's say it's Pekoyama. Togami sees her coming in from under the table, she discovers she's been spotted, and goes back under the floor. Togami crawls down there and Pekoyama stabs him? Okay. Why is that more likely than Togami catches someone sneaking away, and the killer has to kill him instead now? Better question: If you're causing a blackout and you can't presumably see, why would you murder someone there? Doesn't it make a lot more sense to go somewhere you can see? (Why am I presuming the murderer couldn't see? Because they used glow-in-the-dark tape to find the knife.) Neddy Seagoon posted:This has been mentioned before, but the knife probably WAS the trap. It wasn't put there as a potential murder weapon, it was there for Togami to find. Then why the underside of the table, where it's least likely to be seen? Why not the floor?
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Feb 28, 2013 16:47
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slowbeef posted:Then why the underside of the table, where it's least likely to be seen? Why not the floor? I can only hazard a guess that it's so it wasn't discovered too soon by accident, given it's been pointed out some of them are clumsy, and Togami was checking everything to the last detail for dangerous objects. I admit, I'm still stuck on how Togami actually spotted the knife with the tablecloth down in the dark though. Nightvision would mean he had no need of the luminous tape if the knife were his - he'd already know where to find it.
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Feb 28, 2013 17:01
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This has been mentioned before, but the knife probably WAS the trap. It wasn't put there as a potential murder weapon, it was there for Togami to find. They all knew he was on the warpath for dangerous items, so a knife strapped under the table with a luminous patch (or at least a strange glowing object when seen from afar) would be the proverbial red rag to the bull. Togami goes for the knife, killer stabs with the skewer from below through the floorboards, all that's left is the body with a knife bloodied by victim. As to getting back in the room, there are a handful of students that weren't in the room during the blackout. That gives them a much longer timeframe to move freely about in. I kind of shouted this theory down the first time it came up and I don't really know why it's gaining traction again since we haven't really learned anything that really supports it. Okay, so it looks like Togami was probably using the goggles; it seems people think that if he was wearing the goggles, they'd amplify light enough that he could see the glowing paint on the underside of the table despite its positioning and, you know, how the tablecloth is thick enough that blood can't even soak through to the other side. But let's say this is what happened for the sake of an argument. Togami sees a suspicious glow, goes under the table to investigate, and gets killed through the floorboards. Problem? Why is the knife there at all? This makes the glow the key thing that lured him under there; Togami's desire to remove weapons from the room wouldn't figure into it and it's not like the knife would glow in a knife shape. This also would depend on the killer knowing that Togami had the goggles to be able to see the glow, which is a pretty huge, unjustified assumption. edit: Neddy Seagoon posted:I can only hazard a guess that it's so it wasn't discovered too soon by accident, given it's been pointed out some of them are clumsy, and Togami was checking everything to the last detail for dangerous objects. I admit, I'm still stuck on how Togami actually spotted the knife with the tablecloth down in the dark though. Nightvision would mean he had no need of the luminous tape if the knife were his - he'd already know where to find it. So you think it was there for him to find... despite having no reason whatsoever to suppose that he'd find it? 
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Feb 28, 2013 17:04
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Falls Down Stairs posted:So you think it was there for him to find... despite having no reason whatsoever to suppose that he'd find it? That's exactly the problem. The knife's meant to be undiscovered in the light. And even in the dark, I don't buy that Togami would see it better with night vision goggles - it'd still be presuming the killer knew he had goggles, because if it really was casting light from under the table, wouldn't other people have the opportunity to see it? Unless it was somehow casting just enough light that you could only see it with goggles? Somehow? And again, if it's totally dark in the lodge, how is the killer able to see while under the floorboards to stab Togami?
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Feb 28, 2013 17:12
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This whole under the floorboards thing is completely off base. I think the large gaps means that something is hidden between them, like perhaps the missing skewer. I don't think there's been anything to suggest that there's actually some kind of space underneath the floorboards and the evidence of Gundam's earring actually directly contradicts this possibility.
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Feb 28, 2013 17:16
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