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teagone posted:If you want to delve into technicalities, Obi-Wan id's Anakin's lightsaber as the weapon of a Jedi Knight, not a master, but that's pedantic. That said, we're never really given a proper distinction between Jedi ranks in the OT, but in Empire, it's implied that Yoda (a presumed great Jedi master) has no use for a lightsaber because he's such a powerful force entity. This notion is also embellished by Palpatine in RotJ when he id's Luke's lightsaber as a "Jedi weapon" with an apparent disdain, heavily implying that the the use of them is beneath him, or that the Sith don't even bother using them. Vader uses one regularly though. And isn't he explicitly called out as a Dark Lord of the Sith in the OT?
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Feb 26, 2013 02:11
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jivjov posted:Vader uses one regularly though. And isn't he explicitly called out as a Dark Lord of the Sith in the OT? The word "Sith" never appears in the original trilogy. Darth Vader was an evil - fallen - Jedi.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:14
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Bongo Bill posted:The word "Sith" never appears in the original trilogy. Darth Vader was an evil - fallen - Jedi. I was confusing the film and the novelization; Dark Lord of the Sith was Vader's title in the ANH novel.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:18
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I remember using Lexis Nexis to read news stories from the late 70s and early 80s. Vader was known as a Sith Lord in the media. The term is also in the script. (5 times in ANH). euphronius fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 02:19
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teagone posted:That said, we're never really given a proper distinction between Jedi ranks in the OT Because there was no need of one. Jedis are guys who use the Force and use Lightsabers. Jedi Masters? Jedis who are masters of the above. teagone posted:This notion is also embellished by Palpatine in RotJ when he id's Luke's lightsaber as a "Jedi weapon" with an apparent disdain Wouldn't you have distain for the weapons of your enemy? Palpatine is clearly showing that anything Jedi is weak, not that he wouldn't use lightsabers at all.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:20
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The whole line is *truncated* "A Jedi's weapon, like your father's." It's not about disdain, it's likening Luke to his father, a fallen Jedi. I can't think of a single person who saw that scene with Palpatine and even had a thought pass through that he would have a lightsaber up his sleeve. They were wondering "what he could do" to match Yoda's force-lifting-mastery...and that was brought forth with pure force lightning energy, which was awesome.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:30
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MisterBibs posted:Because there was no need of one. Jedis are guys who use the Force and use Lightsabers. Jedi Masters? Jedis who are masters of the above. I always assumed (probably incorrectly) that the Jedi ranking was similar to the Sith in that each master had an apprentice. Of course, there could be three ranks (Apprentice, Jedi, Master) but who knows.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:40
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Darko posted:The whole line is *truncated* "A Jedi's weapon, like your father's." It's not about disdain, it's likening Luke to his father, a fallen Jedi. But if we're taking ANH in a vacuum, Luke's father is not a fallen Jedi, he's a guy that was struck down by a fallen Jedi.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:43
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I never took that scene in Empire as Yoda saying "Lightsabers are poo poo, I don't use one because I'm so powerful" "What's in there?" "Only what you take with you" "...your weapons .. you will not need them" is what's said immediately prior. It's a vision and a mirror of Luke's frame of mind at that point. It's saying that if Luke goes in there with fear and doubt, he will be shown his own possible failure. It's not about disdain for weapons, it's disdain for Luke still thinking of being "a great warrior" This comes back at the end of Return of the Jedi - Luke has to face Vader and the Emperor to truly "be a Jedi", and that moment is when he refuses to fight at all. It wouldn't matter if Luke was using a light saber or a gun or his magic powers to kill Vader at that point, by standing down he has won against the Emperor and will never turn to the dark side.
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Feb 26, 2013 03:00
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jivjov posted:But if we're taking ANH in a vacuum, Luke's father is not a fallen Jedi, he's a guy that was struck down by a fallen Jedi. Why would we be talking about ANH in a vaccum when talking about RotJ?
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Feb 26, 2013 03:38
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Darko posted:Why would we be talking about ANH in a vaccum when talking about RotJ? Well, we're discussing a line from ANH. And the current discussion is already wanting to look at the OT outside the context of the rest of the Star Wars saga. Why do we pick and choose what to include whne discussing a given line/concept/character?
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Feb 26, 2013 03:49
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jivjov posted:Well, we're discussing a line from ANH. And the current discussion is already wanting to look at the OT outside the context of the rest of the Star Wars saga. Why do we pick and choose what to include whne discussing a given line/concept/character? That's what Palpatine tells Luke. VADER His lightsaber. Vader extends a gloved hand toward the Emperor, revealing Luke's lightsaber. The Emperor takes it. EMPEROR Ah, yes, a Jedi's weapon. Much like your father's. By now you must know your father can never be turned from the dark side. So will it be with you.
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Feb 26, 2013 03:51
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My apologies, I thought we were still on Ben's line from ANH. My bad.
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Feb 26, 2013 04:07
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jivjov posted:Well, we're discussing a line from ANH. And the current discussion is already wanting to look at the OT outside the context of the rest of the Star Wars saga. Why do we pick and choose what to include whne discussing a given line/concept/character? Because 3 of the films were created 20+ years after the fact by an almost entirely different creative team in an entirely different creative environment and 3 of them were not.
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Feb 26, 2013 04:10
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feedmyleg posted:Because 3 of the films were created 20+ years after the fact by an almost entirely different creative team in an entirely different creative environment and 3 of them were not. Yes but they're all still numbered episodes in the Star Wars Saga, designed to be part of the same series. I'm not even counting the EU in all of this, just the 6 (and soon to be 7) films. Its not like even the OT was crafted by exactly the same people.
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Feb 26, 2013 04:14
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I always took Palaptine's line about a lightsaber being a Jedi line one of mockery. Like "Oh you've got a lightsaber? Think that makes you a Jedi now? I mean come on you trained for what 6 months?".
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Feb 26, 2013 05:52
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In order to stop trying to squeeze another drop out of the dry and dusty lemon that is this argument, does anyone know any good resources for viewing the storyboards for the OT online? I noticed there was an extensive book about ESB written ages ago, but I can only find ebay listings for it and not any scans of any of the storyboards themselves.
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Feb 26, 2013 05:54
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jivjov posted:I think people are reading way too much into the "your weapons, you will not need them" line. Yoda was referring to that particular exercise, with the force cave. Yes, you can extrapolate it out to mean "Don't go waving your saber around to solve every little problem" but I find it hard to read that line as a blanket "never use a weapon ever" statement. Eh, it's Yoda acquiescing to the realization that Jedi are a bunch of twats. Really. That's the point of Star Wars -- all of it -- heroes and idealists are delusional idiots that imperil the pragmatic people actually making the galaxy tick. Just look at Luke, situated as the purest hero of the saga. Arguably he does some good in ANH, but the moment he starts thinking of himself as a Jedi they may as well have CGIed Sancho Panza next to him into the special edition to get the point across. He fucks up a routine patrol and endangers Han (who has no pretense about his ethics or elite status), has a fruitless fight with an AT-AT, flies off through the blockade while his companions are ruthlessly pursued, plays with his toys in a swamp while his companions are captured and tortured simply because some other twat has the same pointless obsessions he does. Then he comes to rescue them, gets his hand chopped off, cries, and gets rescued by the very people he came to rescue (who had to rescue themselves). After awkwardly botching his role in R2D2's rescue of Han in RotJ, he doesn't even try to help with the actual conflict anymore and goes off to have a melodramatic grunting dick-waving contest that has no bearing on the outcome of the conflict (or even the survival of the Emperor) -- and even his sideshow is ultimately resolved by him just putting down his weapon and shutting up. The Jedi are, down to a person, bumbling, delusional, oblivious, self-important idiots. Enough people didn't pick this up from the OT that Lucas had to make three films where it's flashing on the screen. Luke's, Obi-Wan's, Qui-Gon's and Yoda's only redemption comes from realizing they're giant fuckheads and either letting themselves be killed, doing absolutely nothing or exiling themselves to the everglades so that their childish fantasies quit loving things up for the people just trying to scrape by.
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Feb 26, 2013 06:21
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Darko posted:The whole line is *truncated* "A Jedi's weapon, like your father's." It's not about disdain, it's likening Luke to his father, a fallen Jedi. Hell, the point's made when he casually unlocks Luke's handcuffs with a gesture. We also know from Empire that Vader considers the Emperor to be so powerful that the only way he can possibly be defeated is with him and Luke working together.
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Feb 26, 2013 12:32
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Alchenar posted:We also know from Empire that Vader considers the Emperor to be so powerful that the only way he can possibly be defeated is with him and Luke working together. The fool, clearly the Emperor is more powerful than Darth Maul and Darth Maul kicked two Jedi's asses rather easily!
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Feb 26, 2013 13:31
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It all comes down to whatever people enjoy most. If people really LIKE the idea that Yoda and Palpatine always had weapons up their sleeves in the Original Trilogy, then good for them! I personally don't like to think that they did, because I take the movies, and the themes that I've interpreted from them, at face value. A little simplistic, I suppose, but hey, this is Star Wars, not the new Battlestar Gallactica. Same thing with Boba Fett. To me, he's dead and there are no such things as Mandalorians. But whatever, why should I give two fucks whether or not someone worships that character and his stories in the EU? I personally feel that George Lucas misinterpreted a lot of the themes and concepts brought in by the people who made Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. That or he just didn't care, and wanted to give the fans (and kids) what they wanted: lightsabers and jedi stuff everywhere. While I like some of the imagery, music and themes of the Prequels, I find them even MORE shallow and cynical than the originals. I was disappointed that the Jedi were more monks rather than knights, 'cause I like me some Arthurian Tragedy, which SORT OF came up, but not really. Forbidden love works well in tales of tragic irony, but Lucas' attempt at bringing that theme to the table didn't quite live up to what I was hoping for.
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Feb 26, 2013 16:15
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Rocket Ace posted:It all comes down to whatever people enjoy most. It's largely how I deal with comic books; for me the modern Marvel universe starts with the original Fantastic Four comic from 1961 and it peters out in the early to mid 1990s. I know those books have been going on since then, but I think they're awful. That "new" awfulness doesn't retroactively change the older stories (in real, published order terms, not lovely "in-universe" terms where my understanding is that everything everywhere has been reconned several hundred times).
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Feb 26, 2013 16:53
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Cheesus posted:I think this is a great way to approach serialized fiction. Side point, the concurrent F4/Fantastic Four run by Hickman was the best the comic has ever been. You're doing yourself a disservice by not reading those if you liked the earlier eras of Kirby,etc. books.
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Feb 26, 2013 17:21
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I wonder if ep 7 will continue the OT's theme of faith being the most important thing. In the first film, Vader literally says "don't be too proud of this technological terror", and he's proven right later, because the force helps Luke destroy it. Han says "there's no match for a blaster at your side" yet in Empire it doesn't hurt Vader. And at the end, even R2 gets put out of commission, so Luke's on his own, even turning off his targeting computer, until Han returns to help, because even he believes in the force now, and had told Luke. There are a lot more references in the next 2 films, culminating in the Emperor outright saying "faith in friends is a weakness", which we know is false. Lando continues the attack because he believes Han will take the shield down, and even when Luke is tortured he believes his dad will save him. Then we run into technology not solving everything again, because Vader's suit won't sustain him any more, now that his destiny is fulfilled.
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Feb 28, 2013 00:23
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effectual posted:I wonder if ep 7 will continue the OT's theme of faith being the most important thing. That's just standard fantasy genre 'the good guys hope for the best, and it happens because they live in a universe with a good/evil narrative' stuff. It's a pretty important component of the vast majority of fantasy stories, but it isn't anything particularly deep. The good guys have dreams, the bad guys are all cynical.
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Feb 28, 2013 00:52
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"Careful, you tread on my dreams." - Equilibrium
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Feb 28, 2013 04:27
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Alchenar posted:That's just standard fantasy genre 'the good guys hope for the best, and it happens because they live in a universe with a good/evil narrative' stuff. Just the opposite - the villains place as much faith in the Force as Yoda does. The Emperor just thinks that the power of hate, not of love, is the proper thing to believe in - and given that it has enabled him to take over the Galaxy, is he far wrong? Darth Vader says things like "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force," and chokes people for calling it a bunch of parlor tricks. His faith is mysterious and unshakeable ("You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master."), and is the source of his implacable menace, since it delivers him from hesitation and doubt. In the end it is only overcome by Luke, who, since their previous encounter, has acquired an even greater faith of his own. Even the prequels carry this message on. Anakin is corrupted by appeals to his faith in the Force, tempted by the promise that it has the power to save Padme. He blames himself for his mother's murder because he believes the Force gave him the ability to accomplish anything, even save her; later, he chokes the Death Star's commander because he implied that his failure to secure the plans was due to a limit of the Force. His betrayal of the Jedi Order is at least rationalized by the idea that their teachings are false ("From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"). There's a parallel here: Anakin is described as a virgin birth, or, put another way, the Force itself is his father; he and Luke are both motivated to attain their respective destinies by their faith in their fathers.
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Feb 28, 2013 10:52
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Breakfast All Day posted:Eh, it's Yoda acquiescing to the realization that Jedi are a bunch of twats. Really. That's the point of Star Wars -- all of it -- heroes and idealists are delusional idiots that imperil the pragmatic people actually making the galaxy tick. Just look at Luke, situated as the purest hero of the saga. Arguably he does some good in ANH, but the moment he starts thinking of himself as a Jedi they may as well have CGIed Sancho Panza next to him into the special edition to get the point across. He fucks up a routine patrol and endangers Han (who has no pretense about his ethics or elite status), has a fruitless fight with an AT-AT, flies off through the blockade while his companions are ruthlessly pursued, plays with his toys in a swamp while his companions are captured and tortured simply because some other twat has the same pointless obsessions he does. Then he comes to rescue them, gets his hand chopped off, cries, and gets rescued by the very people he came to rescue (who had to rescue themselves). After awkwardly botching his role in R2D2's rescue of Han in RotJ, he doesn't even try to help with the actual conflict anymore and goes off to have a melodramatic grunting dick-waving contest that has no bearing on the outcome of the conflict (or even the survival of the Emperor) -- and even his sideshow is ultimately resolved by him just putting down his weapon and shutting up. The Jedi are, down to a person, bumbling, delusional, oblivious, self-important idiots. Enough people didn't pick this up from the OT that Lucas had to make three films where it's flashing on the screen. Luke's, Obi-Wan's, Qui-Gon's and Yoda's only redemption comes from realizing they're giant fuckheads and either letting themselves be killed, doing absolutely nothing or exiling themselves to the everglades so that their childish fantasies quit loving things up for the people just trying to scrape by. Take Han Solo in ANH. He owes a legal debt to Jabba; certainly, spice smuggling isn't very laudatory but as far as we know, within the film itself, Han is a resident of Tatooine, where the Hutts seem to be the equivalent of the legitimate government. Nevertheless, Han is a knowing smuggler into Imperial territories; implicitly, he has successfully violated Imperial law repeatedly. When faced with a legally authorized officer of the evident law of Tatooine, in the form of Greedo Han shoots that officer; the question of whether or not he returned fire before, after, or simultaneously with Greedo's attempt to execute the terms of the contract on Han's head, is moot, because Han did in fact kill him. Even leaving aside that cop-killing is generally considered illegal, which might reasonably be extended to bounty hunters, he did not attempt a disabling shot which was clearly demonstrated to be possible by the disabling of Princess Leia. In the special edition he speaks briefly with Jabba on this matter but the details here are mostly irrelevant; he is reminded of his debt and essentially promises to pay with some interest after completing his current mission. Upon arriving in the Alderaan area, Han does not attempt to turn over his two state-enemy clients to lawful authority; instead, he facilitates them in aiding in the escape of a captured insurgent, contributing to the death of numerous military personnel. While one of the wicked cosmic menaces is slain in valiant combat by Lord Vader (who is at least here using his demonic, wicked, inherently corrupting, no-good, very bad powers in the service of lawful authority) the others are permitted to escape, to assist the Empire in finding a nest of terrorists. Receiving his payment, Han Solo then opts to assist these terrorists in an attack on a major military installation. For a while, Han profits from this, becoming a respected insurgent officer, but time is soon up for him; while attempting to smuggle Leia bint Anakin Organa from Hoth he is subjected to technical difficulties. An Imperial/Hutt law enforcement task force pursues him, and he is arrested. We may speculate on the legitimacy of his treatment, of course, but the enhanced interrogation methods used on him were intended in large part to draw out the established profound, destructive evil of a possible Jedi, and may thus be excused on either understandable zealotry or the intense psychological trauma and abuse that Lord Vader had undergone, in his youth, at the hands of Jedi indoctrination officers. Solo is then incarcerated and returned to Hutt authority by Lord Vader. It would appear that the Hutts used a privatized justice system, and being frozen in carbonite, Han is thus kept to serve out an indefinite sentence; he may well be rather garish to the eyes of humans, but to Hutts, perhaps such treatment is in fact typical. Regardless, some time later the insurgent forces attack Jabba in his home, motivated by the increasingly maddened and distinctly non-critical-thinking Luke Skywalker and a small group of his fedayeen. Surprisingly, given the demonic power of a Jedi, the Hutt forces manage to apprehend them, but those same powers lead to the ignoble death by torture of Jabba, at least one LEO (Mr. Fett) and the release of Han from confinement. Han Solo is restored to full health in short order and immediately resumes engaging in his same criminal acts, this time leading to the actual downfall of the legitimate Galactic government; the Emperor is killed, as is Lord Vader (though this may spare the Galaxy having such a damaged person as its leader; besides which, he too was one of the thrice-damned users of the alleged "Force"). We may assume that the galaxy, now without a central legal body, will soon degenerate into merciless banditry and a loss of social order and stability which may take thousands of years to put right - all because of the efforts of one rear end in a top hat smuggler. I believe the underlying message of this entire sequence is that you can't trust criminals, and if anything, the Emperor and Lord Vader were too merciful. (Perhaps they were tainted by their unnatural powers. The only sane users of these powers would appear to be Kreia and, perhaps, Qui-Gon Jinn, who at least attempted to comprehend them using rational inquiry and the scientific method, viz. the midichloran tests.) I would say it is quite reasonable to say from this that George Lucas feels we should use atomic bombs on the Middle East (Tatooine) to stop the criminals and terrorists at their apparent source.
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Feb 28, 2013 11:18
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Er, Jabba is a crime lord and Greedo is a bounty hunter (a profession that in the Star Wars universe seems to be exclusively reserved for evil/dark side/bad guy activity). Hardly representatives or officers of the law.
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Feb 28, 2013 16:55
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Nessus posted:
Star Wars is certainly concerned with the necessity of revolutionary resistance to objective violence, but I don't think it leads to the conclusions you draw here. The 'midochloridian' inquiry is a condemnation of that sort of blind rationality and a part of the wider criticism of the sort of "non-ideology" of the Jedi order and the liberal republic. Star Wars pretty overtly asserts the righteousness of the insurgency against imperialist hegemony. The prequels were then made in light of the 30 years of fan reaction and dissolving of the radical message into franchise, a process of reterritorialization. Danger fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 17:39
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jivjov posted:Er, Jabba is a crime lord and Greedo is a bounty hunter (a profession that in the Star Wars universe seems to be exclusively reserved for evil/dark side/bad guy activity). Hardly representatives or officers of the law. David Graeber posted:The IMF (International Monetary Fund) and what they did to countries in the Global South—which is, of course, exactly the same thing bankers are starting to do at home now—is just a modern version of this old story. That is, creditors and governments saying you’re having a financial crisis, you owe money, obviously you must pay your debts. There’s no question of forgiving debts. Therefore, people are going to have to stop eating so much. The money has to be extracted from the most vulnerable members of society. Lives are destroyed; millions of people die. People would never dream of supporting such a policy until you say, “Well, they have to pay their debts.” Then Jabba is garroted by one of his slaves. Danger fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Feb 28, 2013 17:46
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I like the reasoning in the Plinkett reviews concerning the above. Obviously it's just one guy's opinion, but it makes a lot of sense. The bit about lightning being used to torture and thematic effect vs. "you've reached Sith Level 12, you've unlocked Force Lightning" in the prequels is great. If for whatever reason you haven't seen these videos, I recommend them heartily to you. Also, "audiences have been waiting for Yoda to take out his little lazer sword and go to town" was the only justification for a Yoda fight scene. It has nothing to do with the motivations of the character and shouldn't be viewed as some Rule About Jedi. George Lucas has the worst and best quotes about his own franchise that both pander to and demolish fans everywhere. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 20:06
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Firstborn posted:The bit about lightning being used to torture and thematic effect vs. "you've reached Sith Level 12, you've unlocked Force Lightning" in the prequels is great. If for whatever reason you haven't seen these videos, I recommend them heartily to you. Not sure if we're talking about the same bit, but I thought the treatment of the Obi Wan/Anakin vs. Count Dooku duel as a videogame battle in which the combatants used trademarked Force Powers against one another was one of the funniest bits the Plinkett reviews (right beside the analysis of Anakin's courtship of Padme). Also, what the prequels did to force lightning reminds me of the way the prequels stole all of the thematic meaning of the emperor's appearance in the original trilogy. As Plinkett noted, we'd always assumed the emperor looked the way he did because he was incredibly old, and had extended his lifespan unnaturally using technology and the dark side of the force. This was in stark contrast to the Jedi, who accepted their deaths and got to pass on their wisdom to the next generation (symbolized by their post-death existence as incorporeal ghosts). Then, the prequels tell us the emperor was ugly because Mace Windu reflected a Force Bolt (TM) into his face, and Yoda and Obi Wan came back as ghosts because they had completed their Qui Gon Force Ghost Training Programs (TM). gently caress it all.
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Feb 28, 2013 21:36
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justsomedude posted:
This is still in the PT, though. Palpatine's age is never really established but he's already kind of old during the events of TPM and it's basically outright stated that he used his mentor's teaching to lengthen his life past its natural scope.
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Feb 28, 2013 21:55
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justsomedude posted:Then, the prequels tell us the emperor was ugly because Mace Windu reflected a Force Bolt (TM) into his face, and Yoda and Obi Wan came back as ghosts because they had completed their Qui Gon Force Ghost Training Programs (TM). gently caress it all. I always took it as him having hidden his true appearance somehow and the lightning or whatever got rid of that and he stopped hiding it and used it as part of his 'jedi conspiracy' story.
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Feb 28, 2013 23:08
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A human heart posted:I always took it as him having hidden his true appearance somehow and the lightning or whatever got rid of that and he stopped hiding it and used it as part of his 'jedi conspiracy' story. The integral part here is the writer didn't know or care beyond setting the stage for ANH, and neither should you. You could say his identity was revealed as having a bulbous fivehead, the lightning was partially reflected and melted his face, or whatever else and it'd be just as wrong (or at least unverified). The prequels are one of those magical set of films where analysis of how and why it came to be is way more engaging than anything the actual movies have to offer. I love them for this reason, 6+ years of a complete trainwreck and how to dredge a beloved franchise through the mud*. It's also pretty great to see Lucas retroactively change things in the OT out of petty spite not unlike a kid taking his toys and going home. I'm not trying to be crass, mind you, the films themselves are. * - I should note that I'm not even a huge fan. I've seen the OT around twice, the prequels once each, and have absorbed the rest through cultural osmosis and wiki pages. This is just to reinforce I'm not one of the "the prequels ruined my childhood" types. I always preferred Indiana Jones- so you already know what I'd be more inclined to bitch about. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 23:46
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Firstborn posted:I should note that I'm not even a huge fan. I've seen the OT around twice, the prequels once each, and have absorbed the rest through cultural osmosis and wiki pages. This is just to reinforce I'm not one of the "the prequels ruined my childhood" types. I always preferred Indiana Jones- so you already know what I'd be more inclined to bitch about. I'm actually in a similar boat. I've seen the originals more than twice, but I didn't even see them for the first time until I was 16, so it isn't like I've got this rose-colored glasses view of the films that a lot of people have by virtue of having watched them repeatedly since the age of 6. But the sheer ineptitude with which the slapdash-yet-compelling mythology of the OT was handled in the PT is so staggering that it is almost beautiful. The film world has never seen anything quite like it, and never will again. As for the folks defending the force lightning scene by positing that the Force Bolt (TM) merely dispelled Palpatine's illusion or whatever the gently caress: at best, this scene muddled the point while adding nothing whatsoever to the plot. If anything, it just heightened the implausibility of Palpatine's rise to power (another good Plinkett joke: "Would this face lie to you?"). It was a stupid decision that seemed to be more about the tendency of prequels to want to boil origin story explanations down to a single simplistic moment (e.g. Wolverine getting amnesia from a magic bullet in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, instead of from years of physical and psychological torture) than it was about any thematic or plot considerations. Chilled Cactus fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 00:26
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Is there any actual evidence for the whole "Lucas' changes to the OT are out if spite or to prove a point to fans" thing I keep seeing tossed around? The only place I've ever seen that viewpoint is this forum (and primarily from SMG). As far as any official media I've seen, the changes were made because Lucas liked the idea of tinkering with new tech and going back and "fixing" things that he felt were broken. I've never seen any interview or anything that supports the "he's doing it to show how disgusted he is with the commercialization of the saga" or whatever it is.
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Mar 1, 2013 01:31
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There was a really hosed up thing going on where the artists tried to advance the story and got actively hosed with by Lucas. After Episode I one of the big concept artists (Doug Chiang) got fired - there has to be more to that story. In Episode II you'll notice Palpatine looking kind of pale and wrinkly - in the Episode II artbook they mentioned wanting to imply the dark side was eating away at him (which was the pre-RoTS explanation). In Episode III he looks great, until he turns into a monster man with a scary voice.
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Mar 1, 2013 01:38
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| # ? May 10, 2024 08:30 |
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A cursory look at the changes made (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases) seems to indicate that not all changes were tinkering with new technology. A quick "why did george lucas change star wars" on google reveals a lot of outcry and a few isolated questions directed at him that aren't really worth quoting. He would have to be living in a vacuum to assume adding the comical "NoooOOOoo" to the OT was going to be a well-received change, right? There are multiple quotes from editors and the like that will admit that no one challenged his decisions, and his first draft bullshittery was accepted without question. I think the "shot, reverse shot" bit in the Plinkett reviews is the most heartbreaking thing. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 01:39
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