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Which season is the one where Bubbles shows the one detective how he needs to dress if he's going to pass as a junkie? One of my favorite Bubbles moments.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:08
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Zwabu posted:Which season is the one where Bubbles shows the one detective how he needs to dress if he's going to pass as a junkie? One of my favorite Bubbles moments. Season 1, Episode 3: The Buys
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Feb 28, 2013 22:12
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escape artist posted:No, they're the same thing, and it's really off-putting for Atheist addicts like myself who have to bow their heads and pray for God to give us strength, etc. You sound oddly like Doug Stanhope when he talks about AA, are you as angry as him too? 
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Feb 28, 2013 22:24
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MrBling posted:You sound oddly like Doug Stanhope when he talks about AA, are you as angry as him too? "My name is Doug Stanhope, and that's why I drink." Ziggy's a great character. Every time I watch season 2 I keep thinking to myself "just stop being a loving idiot! You can turn it around Zig- oop the duck's dead." He seems designed to be frustrating to watch almost every time he's on screen. Then you get that moment when he finally snaps and it all becomes clear. It's heart wrenching to watch because you know what it's going to be like for him in prison for a crime that could so easily have been avoided. I'd put the end of his ark right up there with Wallace as one of the saddest, most depressing moments of the show.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:33
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escape artist posted:No, they're the same thing, and it's really off-putting for Atheist addicts like myself who have to bow their heads and pray for God to give us strength, etc. You could always be snarky and go for Gravity or some other constant type thing. It really rubs me the wrong way that these groups are so inherently religious and there is not religious alternative. Ziggy is such a sad story too. Did Nicky's deal help him any? I hope so. BTW, he's also excellent Generation Kill, which David Simon and Ed Burns are also responsible for. It's probably recommended in here before. It's a short, seven~ hour miniseries about the invasion of Iraq in '03 and it's excellent.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:43
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SpookyLizard posted:BTW, he's also excellent Generation Kill, which David Simon and Ed Burns are also responsible for. It's probably recommended in here before. It's a short, seven~ hour miniseries about the invasion of Iraq in '03 and it's excellent. I like Generation Kill more than The Wire even. So, count me in on this recommendation. I'm up in Season 4 in my rewatch (started from Season 2). Watching Randy's journey is one of the most heartbreaking moments in the series.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:49
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DropsySufferer posted:Not really related to the wire but is NA like an non-religious AA? NA is Narcotics Anonymous and AA is Alcoholics Anonymous and AA hates NA for some goddamn reason. AA is also way less touchy-feely than NA. I know, because I am an expert, having been to one meeting of each! And yeah, escape artist, the religious aspects were disconcerting to me and my recovering friend. He's giving himself over to gravity. "Gravity is a force much larger than I." He also uses it to throw terrifically cheap jokes at me, because I have the balance of a drunken flamingo. SpookyLizard posted:You could always be snarky and go for Gravity OMG
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Mar 1, 2013 02:37
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Jerusalem posted:There's a great scene between Ziggy and Frank earlier in the season where Ziggy basically lays out the reasons why he does everything. He's spent his life on the docks, watching his father and seeing the respect and love that everybody has for Frank. More than anything else, he wants to be Frank, but he just doesn't understand WHY Frank is respected or what he does to earn that respect. Ziggy kind of takes everything at face value, so he sees that union worker who was thinking of leaving get given thousands of dollars in Frank's name, he knows that Frank is working with smugglers, he knows that things get stolen off of the crates and in his mind it adds up to,"People respect a guy who flaunts the law and spends up large." There's also the generational divide. Seniority sucks, unless you have it, etc. All these guys sitting around the bar, they've got stories and legends from when they were working nonstop, they've got the camaraderie of a crew that's been through hard and dangerous labor. Ziggy and the new generation only have a few days a month, they have no time and no opportunity to earn their stripes anymore. So instead they have the bar where they can go and listen to all the stories of the grand old days when Men Were Men and the ships rolled in. Nick got accepted because he had the natural gravitas that made Spiro get all enthusiastic about him, but for a lot of guys in the Ziggy demographic there's never a chance to be part of the crew. I spent most of the first S2 watch despising him. He was 'that guy', the one who talked poo poo when you'd almost gotten out of trouble, the one who pocketed something when you were in the store, the one who always needed to be bailed out when he got in over his head. But the show did a magical job of turning me around on him by the end.
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Mar 1, 2013 03:47
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MrBling posted:You sound oddly like Doug Stanhope when he talks about AA, are you as angry as him too? I think I'm angrier, to be honest. Stanhope, when he's not railing against Dr. Drew, seems to be a pretty chill guy. I met him 2 days after President Obama was elected for the first time. That was a good week.
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Mar 1, 2013 06:12
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melon farmer posted:He says when he gets the visit from Frank that he was just tired of being the butt of every joke. Why he had a gun in the first place probably includes some misplaced aspirations of gangsterhood, but I'm inclined to take it at face value that he just got sick of being everyone's bitch and snapped. Yeah, the entire point is that the season lead up to this. Ziggy was the butt of every joke, but well, he had been! He was a gently caress up, and then he actually pulls a good job and then gets shorted on the deal and then insulted. He's honestly searching for a father figure the whole time. He resents Nick because they're so close in age, but he loves it when all the other longshoremen are eating him up. But he doesn't realize it's because he's acting like a fool or buying liquor. And when he kills his duck, that's the last of that from them. So he goes to Glekas with a grand plan, and ultimately he pisses on him too. That's all there is to it, Ziggy just wanted love and respect and he tried so hard but could never really understand how he had to or could earn it. That's why the bruises are such a big deal when he sees his dad, Frank. Frank has never seen the bruises that are in Ziggy's soul, how him being pushed around affected him but now that he's in county lockup with the big guys, well... it's all too apparent. Sorry, I think Ziggy is the most tragic character in Season 2. He gets the short end of the stick, ultimately. I mean, his dad is dead and he's in jail for a double homicide, one of whom is a well connected Greek gangster. Think about what that means for him. EDIT: I also purposely avoid bringing up Frank until the end because that's the point. Frank was never really there for him, he was always with the union. Boywhiz88 fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 09:37
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chesh posted:NA is Narcotics Anonymous and AA is Alcoholics Anonymous and AA hates NA for some goddamn reason. AA is also way less touchy-feely than NA. I know, because I am an expert, having been to one meeting of each! It could be worse, he could be in NarcAnon, the Scientology offshoot most notable for "treating" the actor who played Half-Sack from Sons of Anarchy. Amazingly if you go back a couple years every single one of those "History Channel Specials on the History of X Drug" NarcAnon is a very prominent commentator.
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Mar 1, 2013 10:05
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I've recently started my first rewatch since first watching the series several years ago. I've usually had some trouble rewatching the series, even though I love discussing it, but now it seems quite easy to get through episode after magnificent episode. Just finished episode seven of the first season and, man, this must be one of the top episodes of the sentire series. With McNulty thanking Bunk for his gentleness, Herc and Carver beating up Bodie and then driving him into town, them listening to someone talking about them on the wire, the arrest of Bird and how he seems to bring out the best in people. I could watch this episode all day.
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Mar 1, 2013 12:24
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Season two is a great rewatch because of the character of Ziggy. Like a lot of people, on that first watch you don't have a lot of sympathy for him. He's obnoxious, he's shown to be incompetent, insensitive, and unapologetic. A lot of people dislike Ziggy on their first go-around, and then the Glekas scene kind of comes out of nowhere. The first reaction is, of course, "there goes Zig doing another dumbass thing, what a stupid loving kid." Except then on the rewatch you know where Ziggy ends up, so you watch him with that in mind and all the pieces start to come together. He doesn't get respect from anybody, his father is more interested in his Union than his son, his mother is missing in action. His cousin is the only person he has a real relationship with, and even then we see Nick (rightfully) distance himself from Ziggy when he starts getting into more serious business. He's treated like a joke at home, at the dock, and on the streets. When he gets accosted by Cheese's gang and they take his car, he angrily tells Nick that if he had a gun he would have killed all of them. So it's sadly all set up in a way that's much more obvious in retrospect - which is really the point of the character when you think about it. Nobody in the show saw this coming, I mean sure he was generally regarded as a fuckup obnoxious kid, but a cold-blooded murderer? Nobody realized exactly what he was going through or thinking, what he was dealing with, and what he was capable of. Which is a lot like how we, the audience, treat him that first time around. We're guilty of the same thing that the people around Ziggy in the show are guilty of. "Oh that Ziggy, he's such an annoying character I really can't stand this k-...oh. Oh poo poo." When Nick tells Frank what's happened and Frank and Nick both trade "Where were you?"s, they might as well be asking us, the audience, where we were too.
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Mar 1, 2013 15:18
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Buane posted:When Nick tells Frank what's happened and Frank and Nick both trade "Where were you?"s, they might as well be asking us, the audience, where we were too. Between this scene and the following one with Frank and Ziggy in prison I really don't understand how some people can be so down on Season 2. I mean at first I totally get that the switch to the docks can be jarring, but by the end how can you not be invested in these two characters? Those two scenes are two of the most powerful in the whole series, I'm having a hard time thinking of any others that affected me as much as those scenes. Not even Wallace.
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Mar 1, 2013 15:37
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Basebf555 posted:Between this scene and the following one with Frank and Ziggy in prison I really don't understand how some people can be so down on Season 2. I mean at first I totally get that the switch to the docks can be jarring, but by the end how can you not be invested in these two characters? Those two scenes are two of the most powerful in the whole series, I'm having a hard time thinking of any others that affected me as much as those scenes. Not even Wallace. Most people just don't like such a big change up. It's not that people are dumb or anything, but having a show change suddenly can put a lot of people off for a fair number of episodes even if it's of the highest quality. Simon and Burns had to start teaching audiences that their way was different from the very first episode; you'd have to keep up because it's never going to slow down. That's my reasoning for why people sometimes don't like season 2 the first go round but on rewatch it's appreciated because you know what's coming. Plus The Wire is a very unique show in that it changes things up every season. It's hard to think of another show that changes it's themes every time it comes back on air. In five seasons you've got the high level drug game and how the cops deal with it, the death of industry in America, the fall of a drug empire (and the rise of a new one), an analysis of America's school system and an insight into political campaigning as well as print media and what it's like to be the mayor of a broke-rear end city. This is a gross simplification of course as I didn't even touch on the themes of institutions, bureaucracy and class since they're a constant thread throughout the series. It's a lot to take in on first run through and should come as no surprise that some viewers are put off by it because there so used to traditional TV dramas.
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Mar 1, 2013 16:54
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Am I the only one who actually liked Ziggy less a second time around? I mean, yeah, he's a great tragic character, but drat he's obnoxious. Not to mention his dumb rear end essentially gets Frank killed, since he wouldn't have gone back to the Greek if it wasn't for the hope of bailing Ziggy out.
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Mar 1, 2013 17:58
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BrBa posted:Am I the only one who actually liked Ziggy less a second time around? I mean, yeah, he's a great tragic character, but drat he's obnoxious. Not to mention his dumb rear end essentially gets Frank killed, since he wouldn't have gone back to the Greek if it wasn't for the hope of bailing Ziggy out. I mean yea he's obnoxious and I doubt I'd want to hang out with the guy, but once you know where its going every scene turns into me rooting for something that I know won't happen. Every time he's being a dick I just want so bad for one of the guys to pull him aside and talk to him, or suggest therapy, or something. Anything but what they(everyone in his life) do, which is mock him and put him down every chance they get. The closest anyone gets to being nice to him is just dismissing him and ignoring him, but he's so damaged at that point that negative attention probably feels better than none at all. Honestly on repeated viewings I dislike the other guys on the docks more because they are watching him drown day by day and never once think to throw him a life line.
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Mar 1, 2013 18:46
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Just got done watching Season 1 Episode 7: One Arrest Bird really does bring out the best in people 
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Mar 1, 2013 19:15
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Did you know that Bird was in Onyx? Holy hellballs, the things you miss. Seriously, Onyx - Slam. Spot the Bird (it's not hard) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADgCeYJMN4
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Mar 1, 2013 19:33
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Did you know that Bird was in Onyx? Holy hellballs, the things you miss. He also was in Moesha.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:36
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Basebf555 posted:I mean yea he's obnoxious and I doubt I'd want to hang out with the guy, but once you know where its going every scene turns into me rooting for something that I know won't happen. Every time he's being a dick I just want so bad for one of the guys to pull him aside and talk to him, or suggest therapy, or something. Anything but what they(everyone in his life) do, which is mock him and put him down every chance they get. The closest anyone gets to being nice to him is just dismissing him and ignoring him, but he's so damaged at that point that negative attention probably feels better than none at all. Honestly on repeated viewings I dislike the other guys on the docks more because they are watching him drown day by day and never once think to throw him a life line. Which is a commentary on the environment they're in. They're fighting for survival, and Ziggy is a weak link. Everything he does is stupid, he wouldn't listen to any advice you try to give him anyway (Nick telling him not to flash cash, so he goes and buys the coat and lights his cigarette with a hundred, etc.) In survival conditions people are more likely to prune out and shun the weak links. Nobody has the time and energy to invest in helping Ziggy, they're all trying to pay the bills and feed their families. Then you have Frank, who's the portrait of the guy who finds the cause to the exclusion of his family, all the while telling himself he's doing it in part for his family. The dockworkers rationed their 'give a poo poo' only to people who were actually productive members, like New Charles.
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Mar 1, 2013 20:12
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Randomly Specific posted:Which is a commentary on the environment they're in. They're fighting for survival, Everything you say is correct, but none of those other guys ended up completely snapping the way Ziggy does, so my natural reaction to those scenes when I watch them now is to wish something would have been done differently. Much like I imagine Nick replays those moments in his head and regrets brushing Ziggy off so harshly.
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Mar 1, 2013 20:26
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Basebf555 posted:Everything you say is correct, but none of those other guys ended up completely snapping the way Ziggy does, so my natural reaction to those scenes when I watch them now is to wish something would have been done differently. Much like I imagine Nick replays those moments in his head and regrets brushing Ziggy off so harshly. I think that's why people tend to hate Ziggy but come to sympathize with him. In a lot of ways Ziggy is an emotional black hole- he's the guy that no matter how much you care and how hard you try, he finds ways to sabotage himself. So most people are immediately reminded of somebody in their own life who had similar self-destructive patterns. But the genius of the show is to take that guy and put you inside his tunnel, to show you why he is what he is. You still probably don't want somebody like that around, but you feel sympathy for him and especially in the context of the show you wish there was some way that people could and would actually help him out instead of using him for cheap comedy relief. You're right, Nick probably does end up replaying the moments and regretting them. But on the other hand, in the context of the world Nick lives in what could he do? He can't suggest therapy, that's anathema to the world they're in and also simply not an available option if they're staying inside the lines and working legally. He does let Ziggy talk him into things and he takes Ziggy along for his meeting with Spiro and so on. But what does Ziggy do? He nearly makes a hash of the meeting with Spiro and he pisses off Glekas with blatant stupidity. Nick finally comes to the conclusion that the only way to take care of Ziggy is to cut him out of the business altogether and just keep him in enough cash to buy toys and play games. That's all he can do, that's all he knows how to do.
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Mar 1, 2013 20:44
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I started watching this about two weeks back and I've got to say it lives up to the hype. I've only got about three or four episodes until I've finished it. I like most of the seasons but as I watching it felt that season 2 was the weakest until I got to season five but both are still good. Season 2 just suffered from moving away from the high rises since they were more interesting but I know they had to with Avon in jail. The characters introduced weren't as memorable but it was solid. Taking place during Baltimore winter on the docks also made the season seem more depressing if that makes sense. Season five just seems to be suffering from taking place after two really great seasons. McNulty's fall back to his old self was disappointing but in line with his character. The newspaper arc isn't my favorite but it shows how the different sections of the city work against each other and brings home how the city turns a blind eye to the drug trade. Great series though. Probably going to finish it tomorrow.
Gaunab fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 22:29
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Gaunab posted:I started watching this about two weeks back and I've got to say it lives up to the hype. I've only got about three or four episodes until I've finished it. I like most of the seasons but as I watching it felt that season 2 was the weakest until I got to season five but both are still good. Season 2 just suffered from moving away from the high rises since they were more interest but I know they had to with Avon in jail. The characters introduced weren't as memorable but it was solid. Taking place during Baltimore winter on the docks also made the season seem more depressing if that makes sense. Season five just seems to be suffering from taking place after two really great seasons. McNulty's fall back to his old self was disappointing but in line with his character. The newspaper arc isn't my favorite but it shows how the different sections of the city work against each other and brings home how the city turns a blind eye to the drug trade. Great series though. Probably going to finish it tomorrow. When you do a rewatch (it's inescapable) come back and tell us what you thought of season 2 the next time around. I can't even count the number of times people in this thread and the old one had season 2 as the worst season viewing it for the first time but elevated it to the top couple on rewatch.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:36
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Oh I'm not saying it's the worst. I meant at the time I watched it, it felt the weakest and that's why. I liked it for showing a different aspect than the other seasons. It's just at the time I wanted more more of the Barksdales. I think if people felt that way, then season 2 would be disappointing on first watch, but marathoning through the seasons took that edge off. It easier to see some of things they wanted to show. Now that I think about, it's more of a standalone season in the overarching story. I'll come back after a rewatch with more solid thoughts though. I'm trying to get a friend to watch it but accidentally turned him off by showing him the motherfucker scene in the first season haha. I'll get him though. Everyone has to see what the fuss is about with good shows eventually.
Gaunab fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 23:02
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Lugaloco posted:When you do a rewatch (it's inescapable) come back and tell us what you thought of season 2 the next time around. I can't even count the number of times people in this thread and the old one had season 2 as the worst season viewing it for the first time but elevated it to the top couple on rewatch. Yeah, I recall the first watch and the change was very jarring to me. I was annoyed because I wanted to find out what was happening with Avon, Stringer and everyone else; who cares about a dock? I started to really like season 2 the first time by the end though. Everyone is so talented writing about the wire I can't do remotely do it justice myself. There's a Mayor's Race going on in LA that keeps me thinking of the wire. The man running happens to be a city council member named Garcetti. I can't help but think of Carcetti and think, "hey look there's The Wire in reality".   Granted I don't know how skilled of a politician Garcetti is or his inner thoughts but at their core nearly all politicians care more about advancement or money then the public good. What the Wire showed us is how quickly a man would comprise his principles and ideals in order to gain power and position. Couldn't help bringing up that mayor's race I see too much similarity.
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Mar 2, 2013 17:10
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I've never seen any wire past a few episodes into season 2 so excited this thread got me watching it again. Almost wrapping up season 1 than onto season 2
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Mar 2, 2013 20:23
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Jerusalem posted:I also think he is a far, far better policeman than McNulty (part of the reason he reacts so strongly to McNulty's "how many people can do what we do?" speech in a later season, in my opinion). Part of that may be because he's older and actually came up in a police culture that wasn't completely hosed YET, but I think mostly it's because Freamon is a remarkable person - an intelligent, hardworking man who not only doesn't mind doing his research/keeping up on legal/procedural matters but actually enjoys it. Looking back on the scene where Phelan insults McNulty in front of Rhonda, Phelan seems like less of an rear end in a top hat (but still definitely an rear end in a top hat) when you know that McNulty actually is bit of an ignorant bastard who does everything half-baked. OppyDoppyDopp fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 2, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 20:40
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Tiny Chalupa posted:I've never seen any wire past a few episodes into season 2 so excited this thread got me watching it again. Almost wrapping up season 1 than onto season 2 Hey! Don't read this thread until you're done. It's got spoilers-galore!
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Mar 2, 2013 22:34
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Finally finished the series. Pretty great. I don't have that usual feeling I get when I finish a series partly because everything was so well written and strong and partly because it got it's message across. I'm probably going to end up doing a rewatch next week with some friends who i've convinced to watch. The final episode (hell the series) was great at showing how even when things change they still stay the same and how hosed the system is. Great series though. Great.
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Mar 2, 2013 22:59
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HTJ posted:I'm watching Season 5 again and it drives home how much McNulty ('the smartest gently caress in the room') overrates his intelligence and/or commitment. His genius scheme wasn't going anywhere until he enlisted Lester and he was prepared to file bullshit reports on street work until Lester explained why that wouldn't work. But then again Bunk pretty much solved the case doing good honest po-lice work.
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Mar 3, 2013 14:47
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Alhazred posted:But then again Bunk pretty much solved the case doing good honest po-lice work. He got the shooter, but that comes back to the dilemma the series presents from day one- it was at best a step above street level. No matter what, Bunk wasn't going to get more than Chris and Snoop at his level of investigation.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:19
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Randomly Specific posted:He got the shooter, but that comes back to the dilemma the series presents from day one- it was at best a step above street level. No matter what, Bunk wasn't going to get more than Chris and Snoop at his level of investigation. But then again, all McNulty and Freamon managed to get was Chris.
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Mar 4, 2013 07:12
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Also, in more actors in different shows chat, Chris Bauer and Gbenga Akinnagbe are both in an episode of Fringe. Though they're both more computer hacker types than anything resembling them on the Wire. My friend was rewatching the show and it reminded me of it so I thought I'd share.
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Mar 4, 2013 07:27
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I'm up to episode 7 in my rewatch now I think. It's been years since I watched it so having the write-ups to read at the end of my viewing was nice. Since I'm at home ill though I've been burning through a few episodes a day so I'm having to plow on alone now which is a shame, I liked all the little things that I missed being pointed out (like the Avon/Stringer basketball stuff). I'm really looking forward to rewatching the second season because I feel like I glossed over that in my first viewing, also looking forward to the rise of Marlo with the benefit of hindsight. All the little things in this show make me love it all the more, add in already having a feel for the characters from the very beginning and it's much easier to see how things slot into place.
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Mar 4, 2013 18:50
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Alhazred posted:But then again, all McNulty and Freamon managed to get was Chris. And Monk, and Cheese(he might be unfit for trial though hehe), and every other enforcer etc. that was busted with them. They definitely decapitated the crew. Not like any of it matters.
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Mar 4, 2013 18:59
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I'm onto season three of my rewatch. I'm noticing a lot more small details on my second time through, and seeing a fair amount of callbacks to Simon's book, Homicide. Detective Worden, for instance, gets mentioned in passing a few times during the first season. And that scene at the start of the first episode--"this America man, you got to let him play"--it's so cool knowing that that actually happened. Blew my mind when I learned Bubbles, Omar, Landsman, and McNulty are all based on real people, too. One thing I'm wondering after wrapping up season two: do we ever find out what happens to Valchek's beloved surveillance van? When he tells the FBI guys about the prints he pulled off the polaroids they exchange kind of a "what the gently caress" look and I got the impression that they sort of blow him off. I wonder whether Sobotka wanted it tied up in shipping limbo for eternity or if he was just loving around and planned on having it eventually return to Baltimore. Given how much rancor exists between Valchek and the dockworkers (Sobotka especially; Valchek took all the poo poo that went on between them very personally), I'd figure he wanted it tied up forever. That whole thing with the polaroids and slapping a bumper sticker on at every new dock cracked my poo poo up pretty bad. That and Valchek getting pissed off enough to pull prints and contact the FBI about it. He gets so goddamn mad.
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Mar 4, 2013 21:12
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Alhazred posted:But then again, all McNulty and Freamon managed to get was Chris. But they would've gotten away for it if it wasn't for that dastardly Kima.
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Mar 4, 2013 21:39
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Landsman himself is in the show, playing the Lieutenant in the Western who is works directly for Bunny. That tall guy with the mustache? That's Landsman.
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Mar 4, 2013 23:43
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