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Meeks Sisu posted:Looks like the skewer under the floorboard theory is still going strong. The only question now is how the murderer accessed the crawlspace. It seems that it must be in the bathroom since that is the only room we haven't visited yet. That or hidden behind the boxes in that dirty storage room that Hinata ignored. (bathroom probably better)
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Mar 5, 2013 18:27
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drat, Chiaki basically pulled out our entire under-the-floorboards theory and slammed it right there on the table. Definitely seems like she's gonna be our Kirigiri, which I'm totally fine with. So it seems like Kuzuryuu's mostly out of the picture, though his appearance DID become an evidence bullet. Nagito keeps acting more and more suspicious with every update, so it could very well be that he IS the only culprit here. Seems like there's a little bit of investigation left to go, so we'll see what turns up. If we do find a way into the crawlspace, that'll be the game-changer. Have we actually given the storage room a thorough search yet? Nagito seems hell-bent on preventing anybody from snooping around in there and the only time we've really been able to look around he was extremely dismissive of everything. orenronen posted:
Actually, looking back, I think there's almost definitely something in the storage room Nagito doesn't want us to find.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:28
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Hey, Hinata-kun... It's no use wasting time in this dark, dirty room.
...Hm?
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Sounds like the only way to get under the building is through the toilet. That might not be as disgusting as it sounds, since the lodge hasn't been used for a while. However, it does mean that the culprit needs to be small enough to fit into the hole. So I'm getting more and more suspicious of Hanamura.Falls Down Stairs posted:After-images? Stretchy? I got it, you guys. Monobear is Barry Allen and Reed Richards. The robots are because he's also Tony Stark.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:31
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Ratoslov posted:If it's food poisoning, as in 'poorly cooked food', there's all sorts of ways Owari could have avoided food poisoning while everyone else who touched it got sick. She could have simply not eaten the vector food, picking other stuff to gorge on. She could have a naturally high resistance to food poisoning. Or she could be taking strong antibiotics for some other illness. ... Wait, hang on, weren't there no cows before Usami showed up with her magic stick to fix that? I know I wouldn't eat something that wasn't a cow a couple days ago because a rabbit puppet waved a stick at it to make it start being a cow. 
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Mar 5, 2013 18:32
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Professor Malice posted:Wait... Not sure how good that is. He should have received the same details on the death as everyone else, so he'd know about Togami. Also, he doesn't seem to say much about who he has spoken to. If it doesn't turn out to be Nagito as a killer, I'm guessing Nagito is actually supposed to just be a parody of Naegi, who routinely (for the sake of gameplay) was clueless about the investigation and what things meant. He's just that to a greater extreme, to the point of willfully ignoring evidence to keep hope alive. It's a good introduction as it challenges the player to ignore what he's saying and observe for themselves. The people may change from case to case, but it seems that Kirigiri is being split between various characters. Nagito suggests places to go, Chiaki does investigating on her own, and Mahiru provides the voice or rationality (I expect her to be in that role at trial). Something that hasn't been discussed much is that if Monobear really did switch the breakers on, and the culprit did something to Peko, than they would not have expected the lights to return so soon. Did they actually just get lucky that the killing was done or did they have to do something in a rush (like throw out the sheet)? I'm partial to the idea that the sheet could have been used by someone underneath to keep them clean, and that there is a trapdoor in the kitchen or storage room.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:38
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SingerOfW posted:I have actually thought of Koro-sensei from Assassination Classroom. He stretches, moves incredibly fast, and the whole plot of the manga is about a group of unusual students in a kill-or-be-killed situation. I was actually going to make that joke/comparison but then not so many people'd get it. 
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Mar 5, 2013 18:41
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Opposing Farce posted:It's a vague enough description that it could cover like half of all JRPGs ever. v  v I think that's the joke. Also a Studio Ghibli reference. Well played Spike. 
LateToTheParty fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 18:44
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It's too early to give up on the floorboard theory. The lack of an external entrance just clears Kuzuryuu - the skewer missing and all the attention drawn to the gaps in the floor under where Togami's body was + the blood not being anywhere else would be pretty hard to justify otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Gundam finds a way to get down there in the next update or two, probably somewhere really close to the kitchen. I'm pretty set on Hanamura with Kuzuryuu out of the running, there would have to be like a trapdoor in the bathroom for Peko to get under the floors.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:47
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Falls Down Stairs posted:I was actually going to make that joke/comparison but then not so many people'd get it. I'm just suprised that someone actually made that reference, and that I didn't realise the resemblence until SingerOfW made that post.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:50
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I'm really starting to like Nanami, she seems so level-headed despite her slow reactions. I wonder if she'll be a murderer at some point and make some kind of crazy complicated puzzle. It's also refreshing to see people actively trying to solve the crime scene - Nanami investigating under the floorboards, Souda checking out the office, etc. I think the only people we haven't talked to are Saionji, Nidai and Owari, right? I assume Nidai's holed up in his bathroom, but maybe we'll run into the other two on the way.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:08
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DeathBySpoon posted:He's an rear end in a top hat and thinks he's above interacting with the other students. I think that fits him just fine, although I do hope he sticks around long enough to get some good character development. Me too. I think all Kuzuryuu really needs is a hug. 
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Mar 5, 2013 19:09
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's also refreshing to see people actively trying to solve the crime scene - Nanami investigating under the floorboards, Souda checking out the office, etc. I know, right? After the first game where the only ones besides you who seemed to really care were Kirigiri and Togami, it's nice that there seem to be more people actually trying to figure this poo poo out in any way they can. I feel like Peko and maybe even Kuzuryuu would also get really into the investigation, provided they survive the next few cases.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:14
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orenronen posted:
So, who wrote this letter? Monobear would definitely do something like this, but assuming that isn't the case, and considering Hinata's hypothesis that it was part of a plan... ...the only person I can think of is Nagito himself. Nagito knew of (researched, according to himself) the students beforehand, and seems to have the greatest understanding of all the other students from what we've seen in general. And he had prepared those straws beforehand, upon which he proceeded to "lose" the drawing. You could dismiss all these as coincidences beforehand, but with all these pieces seeming the fit together... It's also pretty clear from the evidence and especially what Nagito is nervous about (Mahiru's testimony, the storage room, Nagito's position) that Nagito at least tried to grab that knife and murder someone. And he was almost certainly responsible for the blackout as well: any other student could have pulled it off possibly, but the luminous paint on the knife seems to link it to Nagito pretty well. Just from a story perspective and Hanamura's claim to have moved past the fire doors in the dark I believe it was actually Hanamura underneath the floorboards. As much as I thought up interesting what-ifs about how this would be possible we can't really be sure. The only way that I think works is if Hanamura was able to enter from the boxes in the storage room. And we still don't know why Hanamura (or anyone besides Nagito) would have planned to murder from the floorboards if Nagito planned the blackout. Maybe Hanamura was hoping to kill someone using the bathroom due to food mixed with laxatives, but someone else (Nagito again?) had kept the bathroom locked for a different reason? Rawkking fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 19:17
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No... it's still possible this letter is just a prank... that this has nothing to do with Togami-kun's death...
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The letter sounds like a prediction, So I think it might have come from Hagakure from the first game. He might have shaped up since the events of the first game though, the letter doesn't sound like him. I stand by the idea that the fatsuit is a fake to help protect against stabbing murders.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:30
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If there's a way into the crawlspace under the lodge, then it'd have to be either in the bathroom or the storage room. We haven't gotten a chance to check the bathroom yet(since it's been locked every time we went there), and Nagito seemed to be steering us away from the storage room(as if he had something to hide). Either that, or there's a hatch under the carpet in the dining room. Maybe that's how Mikan falling over is relevant to this case; she mentioned that she tripped because her foot caught on the carpet. Maybe that's because someone moved the carpet to get under the floorboards when the power went out.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:08
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I have a good feeling about Nanami becoming the quote-on-quote Kirigiri of the game. The one who helps lead the protagonist the most, but without spelling out everything. Nagito was seeming like it, but frankly he's looking to be a red herring with how little he seems to actually want to help. There's also the fact that he gets more suspicious with every update. Nanami's the gamer in a video game, so it would be a nice little toss out to say that she can help because she's played a lot of murder mysteries. Not that playing tons of murder mystery games makes you a bonafide detective, but she does seem very level-headed despite being a little spacey every now and then. It also seems like Kuzuryuu is turning into the anti-Togami. Togami in DR1 said he was fine with murdering someone when he had to and always kept a very condescending air about him. He lightened up toward the end, but he still acted like he was better than everyone and only really respected Naegi and Kirigiri at the end of the day. Kuzuryuu acts like he's better than everyone, but he pretty obviously wanted to join in on the party and only didn't go because he wanted to look like a big cool badass. The thing Nanami said about RPG Heroes also made me think it was more a joke about how there a lot of characters in games who act tough, but just really want to be well liked.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:28
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 I have a feeling... that the truth behind this murder hinges on whether the space under the floor is accessible or not.So much for subtlety. Still, I do like that at least one person besides the player was smart enough to think of that. Now that we're freed from Nagito, perhaps we should investigate the storage room again, just to be sure that there isn't a trap door under there. By his own admission, he didn't spend much time in the storage room at all. Kuzuryuu wanted to go to the party, I'm sure. (I was hoping Mahiru would be our Kirigiri, what with her handy camera for evidence gathering.)
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Mar 5, 2013 20:33
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Fedule posted:He thinks he's surrounded by people who are too different from himself... and that's why he's always alone. Actually, it describes Togami in DRI pretty well.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:41
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lotus circle posted:I have a good feeling about Nanami becoming the quote-on-quote Kirigiri of the game. The one who helps lead the protagonist the most, but without spelling out everything. Nagito was seeming like it, but frankly he's looking to be a red herring with how little he seems to actually want to help. There's also the fact that he gets more suspicious with every update. Nanami's the gamer in a video game, so it would be a nice little toss out to say that she can help because she's played a lot of murder mysteries. Not that playing tons of murder mystery games makes you a bonafide detective, but she does seem very level-headed despite being a little spacey every now and then. Actually I think what's happening is Nagito is being put into this position of being Naegi from the first game. Where he's naive and going around with Hinata to try and get clues because he doesn't want to believe someone is the killer but he HAS TO, and Hinata is acting as the Kirigiri figure who despite his shock at the events is still investigating in a semi-logical way, and finds Nagito's optimism WEIRD and nonsensical even compared to other characters unique traits. Though the Nanami thing does seem to provide her as the character position Kirigiri filled before, that is truem, you got a point. Honestly the weirdest thing about this investigation is nobody seems to be smart enough to just kick in the drat door to the bathroom that- if someone actually did get under the floor, is clearly the way they entered via some form of maintenance hole- and inspect it. And the reason its stupid is because everyone's wherabouts is accounted for during the party and investigation but they don't want to be rude and assume someone has been in there for hours. Who the hell would be in there? Monobear? I mean...maybe, he might be in there during the party to keep people from being able to go in, cause he's a dick that way, but he wouldn't do it when somebody's died. And if the door was just jammed then he'd have mentioned that too. How is nobody figuring this out? Is the climax of the investigation going to be Kuzuryuu kicking it in to help find the last clues?
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Mar 5, 2013 20:50
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Thinking about this letter*, I can't help but wonder what purpose it was supposed to serve. The effect it seems to have had in practice is that Togami ended up creating the party set-up, and he got killed there. Okay. But the culprit couldn't have predicted all the details of the party set-up; there were way too many x-factors. And wouldn't sending taunts heighten suspicion and make you easier to catch? What if Togami responded to it in a way that really did remove any opportunities for you to kill someone? Why not just shank someone in a proverbial alleyway when there are no witnesses rather than provoke Togami into upping security and making your job harder? Presently, I think maybe the thing of greatest interest is that the washroom is still locked, yet everyone (even Kuzuryuu now) has been seen outside of it since it was locked, unless people have been entering and leaving and re-locking it just off-screen the entire time. Now that Nagito's done the "ask Monobear to unlock doors" thing I'd hope Hinata just goes "Hey Monobear, the washroom is really suspicious and I need to get in for the investigation. Unlock it for me," and hopes he doesn't accidentally walk in on someone. Murder investigations are more important than poopin' though, goddammit. TCat posted:Honestly the weirdest thing about this investigation is nobody seems to be smart enough to just kick in the drat door to the bathroom that- if someone actually did get under the floor, is clearly the way they entered via some form of maintenance hole- and inspect it. There's a rule against damaging any property (e: "the environment") on the island and so I'd think door-kicking wouldn't be allowed.  Remember that Sakura killed herself after kicking one down during DR1 because she knew that her life would be forfeit for it, but that her sacrifice would serve the greater good.*My intuition is questioning the letter's legitimacy since Nagito is setting off warning bells in my head; the cabin here wasn't an obvious place to find clues related to the murder at all. And after getting into Togami's cabin he wants to sit around alone in there, among the victim's personal possessions, without anyone else around? What the hell? But as much as I'd like to dismiss it based on a gut feeling, I don't have any legitimate reason to do so, and it being on his desk with no indication that anyone else ever entered the cabin suggests that it is something that Togami read. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 21:05
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orenronen posted:
quote:
Nagito's not very good at not being suspicious, is he? But I still wonder if the game's just setting him up as a giant red herring. In any case, I think it's unlikely that Kuzuryuu is the culprit. I think Nanami's spot-on with her assessment of Kuzuryuu's character. Or maybe I just want to see more of him. Anyway, that locked bathroom door is driving me crazy. I'm hoping someone finally kicks it in during the next update.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:06
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No, I don't think so.
I want to... put my thoughts in order. I need some time alone.
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You know, if I was a killer and I wanted to use the crawlspace and there wasn't a way get there, I'd just make my own. Of course then I'd have to make sure that noone could find the hole until it was to late. Maybe somewhere closed off that I could secure by locking it... On a completely different note, I wonder when we're going to break into the bathroom?
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Mar 5, 2013 21:08
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TWEWY was my first instinct as well for the RPG title. I'm glad they denied entering under the floor from outside, makes things simpler. I'm assuming we can also take Nanami and Kuzuryuu meeting as an alibi for them both, which pretty much leaves Pekoyama and Teruteru as the stabber suspects. Nagito keeps on confirming suspicions by leading us to a letter he probably sent himself and immediately dismissing it's from the killer. He didn't manage to kill anyone himself, after all. Actually, though, the letter itself is interesting in figuring out the motive. Gloating about a murder beforehand doesn't seem like a smart move. What was the point in sending it, and why to Togami? Was the sender really serious, and if not, why the knife? Did they somehow anticipate what Togami would do and/or use that to their advantage?
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Mar 5, 2013 21:11
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I wouldn't be surprised if Togami had talked with Nagito about the letter beforehand. It might not be the case, but it would provide a more grounded explanation for why he ended up on cleaning duty.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:19
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Letter To Togami posted:"Watch out. The first murder will occur tonight. It is inevitable." The phrasing here is a little weird. If it was from the killer, wouldn't they say something like "I will kill tonight"? It sounds like a warning to Togami more than anything incriminating.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:26
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I'm waiting eagerly for Nagito to actually be Naegi, and he goes full-Naegi during the trial and absolutely hangs somebody out to dry for committing a murder with his newly-taught detective skills. 
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Mar 5, 2013 21:37
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WELP. Either the entrance to the crawlspace is in the bathroom (the only room not checked) or the crawlspace theory is wrong. I happen to like the crawlspace theory quite a lot and think it accounts for a lot of phenomena quite nicely, like the bloody sheet in the storage room (a coat against bleeding), the missing skewer, the number of stabbings. Or, wait, there's another possible entrance, the storage room under those boxes. Nagito basically told Hinata not to look there. Hopefully Mikan's post mortem and Mahiru's people placement project turn up something, because I still feel like the full picture won't be complete until we have all the pre-trial evidence bullets. And the FRICKING BATHROOM. Pretty clearly Nagito wrote the letter, but it's possible not with sinister intent, but to try to provoke Togami into stopping anything from happening. Or it was written to set up the crime because Nagito did it, OR assuming Nagito's not the killer, but even MORE of a bastard, he did it to place Togami squarely in the line of fire, knowing someone else was on the verge of breaking bad.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:53
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I wonder if the only reason Nagito wanted to investigate Togami's room is because he knew already there was something like this to find. If he sent the letter, this just makes me more convinced he's actually the mastermind. It really seems tailored just to gently caress with Togami's head and appeal to his sense of duty. It's like Nagito was prepared to make the first murder happen himself to get the ball rolling, but just like in the first game, someone unexpectedly stepped forward to start things off on their own initiative. Kuzuryuu seems to be crossed off the suspect list now, so I'm leaning towards Hanamura as the main suspect. Since he'd also have time to get familiar with the lodge and the crawlspace, and hide the skewer. But this could be blown out of the water once we learn how those fire doors work.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:59
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NextTime000 posted:I don't know the nature of how the fire doors operate; do they shut automatically in an emergency? If so there was a blackout so how would they be powered? they are the potential damning evidence against Hanamura if they were shut during the blackout, as how could he have made it into the room if those doors were shut?. Fire doors are usually held open by an electro-magnet. This works like a failsafe: when the power is cut, the fire doors close, because a fire may have caused the lack of power. Fire doors like this usually don't lock; you can just push or pull them open like a normal door. I don't know how this is relevant yet. Maybe they prevented someone from going through the entire building during the blackout, because they thought they had reached the end of the hallway. Some more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_door#Normal_operation
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Mar 5, 2013 22:00
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I'd label Hanamura, Nagito, Peko, and Souda as the only really probable suspects at this point, given what we know. Personally I'm leaning towards Hanamura, but it's still really unclear no matter how we look at it.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:01
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HangedManArcana posted:The phrasing here is a little weird. The ambiguity makes it sound like the writer knew that a murder would have to occur, but not necessarily who was going to do the deed. My first thought as to why someone would know that is that the writer is a mole, like Sakura in DR1, who was given a deadline to kill someone in order to get the ball rolling. So they knew that either someone else would step up and commit a murder or they'd do it themselves - regardless, someone was inevitably going to die. But other than my first impression, my only reasoning for this is that we know that someone is a traitor (assuming Monobear isn't lying), and that a couple of theories have revolved around the idea of multiple murder attempts occurring at once. I have no idea why they'd write to Togami, though, unless they were conflicted about it.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:01
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Monomi supposedly had someone on the inside. If her original goal was for them to bond, Togami is a likely suspect. The letter could be from whoever is behind Monomi. They don't have the power to stand up to Monobear and act directly, but they can still leak information to their mole.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:29
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Lamhirh posted:Monomi supposedly had someone on the inside. If her original goal was for them to bond, Togami is a likely suspect. The letter could be from whoever is behind Monomi. They don't have the power to stand up to Monobear and act directly, but they can still leak information to their mole. And that person is Hagakure, after all how else would they know that a murder is going to happen.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:43
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Maybe I'm just being stubborn but for me this update just adds more credence to the floorboard theory, albeit in a meta kind of way. Chikai says there's no way to get in from outside and that's all cool and fair enough but Nagito says that he hasn't seen a way under the floor inside and his quick "I don't think so" dismissal of the idea of a trapdoor just feels odd. The whole exchange just screams "Look again when you get rid of this rear end in a top hat."
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Mar 5, 2013 22:45
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The thing that convinces me that the crawlspace will be relevant is how Gundam is absolutely dead set on finding a way down there, and considering that they went so far as to give him a set of altered sprites to motivate him into searching for it, it's unlikely that he's going to fail. That being said, it's entirely possible that that particular point won't get brought up until the trial proper, when someone (read: Hinata) remembers to ask him if/how he got down there. It wasn't exactly uncommon for the first game to withhold vital evidence until then (Maizono's note, Chihiro's broken ID, the bottle of poison). Now, if the way to access the crawlspace is in the storage room, then Hanamura is the probable culprit, despite Nagito's behavior, because the fire doors shutting would mean that only he and Peko could access it, and the former is the more suspicious of the two. If it's in the bathroom, then, as much as I doubt he's the culprit, Souda would have been in the best position to access it. EDIT: Actually, now that I think on it, Peko would be the most likely suspect if it was the bathroom, since she's the only one that could have gone in there at the beginning of the party, before Nidai tried to get in. CandyCrazy fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 23:01
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tiistai posted:
It might be the case that they were counting on Togami responding by gathering everyone in one place. In which case, they'd have to be a pretty good judge of character to anticipate that Togami would respond that way. That, or knew enough about Togami's personality to be able to anticipate that he would respond that way. If gathering everyone in one place actually was the motive in sending the letter, anyway. Of course, like others have said, there's always the possibility that Monobear was the one who sent it in order to stir things up.
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Mar 5, 2013 23:59
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It's sounding more like Nagito is the killer to me. He had access to the cabin all day and has been leading us around telling where to look or not. He is using the confusion of the first murder to his benefit and lead the investigation to where he wants it to go.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:19
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Given how Nagito has been hampering the case more than helping it, we've missed uncovering clues that will turn up later, and my money's on it being whatever passage can get under the floor. Betcha anything it'll be Gundam who finds it; he's that damned determined to get his earring back, odds are he'll also find the murder skewer. But seriously? It can't be in the bathroom. I know it being locked makes it oh so suspicious but look at this picture:  The bathroom's in the far southwest corner. Togami (presumably) was stabbed at the back of the ballroom, in the northeast section of the lodge. I've been saying this alot, but no one, no matter what their drat SHSL powers are, can move from Bathroom A to Murder Location B crawling under the floor, stab Togami, crawl back and then run out of the bathroom to ditch the evidence in the Storage room which is due east during the black out. No one. Even if you remove the first step and have them lying in wait, they still have to crawl back to the bathroom, run through the hall, and stash the bloody table cloth before the lights come back on. Nobody can do this. The table cloth's in the storage room, so the killer HAD to have come through there at some point, but given the layout, the bathroom cannot possibly have anything to do with the secret passage. It has to be on the other side of the building for the killer's path to make sense.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:24
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TKMobile posted:Given how Nagito has been hampering the case more than helping it, we've missed uncovering clues that will turn up later, and my money's on it being whatever passage can get under the floor. Betcha anything it'll be Gundam who finds it; he's that damned determined to get his earring back, odds are he'll also find the murder skewer. What if it's like the mansion from Clue and there's a secret passage that runs from the Bathroom to the Storage Room that passes under the Ballroom?
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Mar 6, 2013 00:34
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The back wall of the storeroom is suspicious either way. It's really close to the banquet hall and it's being blocked by a whole bunch of stuff that one of the biggest suspects is telling us not to investigate for some reason. I would not be surprised to find some sort of crawlspace entrance being blocked off by all that crap. EDIT: CandyCrazy is basically saying the same thing how the gently caress did I not see that
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Mar 6, 2013 00:38
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