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Where the finds his missive printed in a discarded Playboy magazine. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10222004
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# ? Mar 5, 2013 11:28 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 14:48 |
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Here's a link someone posted in AI, it's a glowing review of the Bose 901. Let's play "spot the bullshit": http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/ I'll start out easy. The author states that he really wants to experiment with "cable placement"
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 11:28 |
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Could someone give me the rundown on Bose? I keep getting guys in their 40-50's telling me that they make the best of everything, and their magic allows them to have a super Am I right, wrong, or is it even worse than that?
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 14:33 |
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Founded by Dr. Amar Bose, who's definitely no idiot, make no mistake. He's just sort of misguided. His reason for founding Bose was that he bought a stereo in Radioshack based purely on specs, found that it sounded horrible and decided that he could do better. Note that he admits that he only found out how horrible it sounded when other people told him after he'd played some records for them. So Bose tried out a bunch of different ways to create "better sound through research", like the 901, various wave guide, 4th/6th order bandpass systems, replacing large woofers with huge numbers of midrange speakers, that sort of thing. Plenty of interesting stuff and loved by many people, but not really as fantastic as their marketing would have you think. Then, they really got into the Wife Acceptance Factor thing, that you could have great sound from tiny speakers your wife wouldn't mind having on her bookshelf. This created the Acoustimass series of speakers and arguably the whole trend towards tiny satellite speakers and hidden subwoofers. This is where the "no highs, no lows, must be Bose" thing comes in. The satellites have two completely ordinary 2,5" paper cone speakers, the sub has 2 (or more, in some cases) 5-6" woofers in a 6th order bandpass design. Treble tops out at around 15-16kHz, bass bottoms out at around 50Hz and you get severe directionality issues, since the crossover is at around 250Hz because the satellites completely lack low midrange/upper bass response. Not to mention that pretty much all the bass energy is centered around 50-60hz and generally just brings one big tubby bass note to the table. My dad has an Acoustimass set. The plastic casing on the sub creaks like you wouldn't believe when it has to put in some actual work. With Bose, you pay for the brand name and the hyperactive marketing towards people who don't know better than what Bose's glossy ads and extremely well-trained salesmen tell them.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 15:44 |
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Bose once sued Consumer Reports over a bad review. Somehow, to me, that says it all.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 16:58 |
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That was actually over their review of the 901, which was Bose's first speaker design. I believe the lawsuit dragged out for over a decade and finally concluded in a 5/4 decision that just about everything in the review was factually wrong, but that it was protected free speech or something.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 17:05 |
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I just can't think of an another company that would sue over a review. It's so petty. It's doubly petty when it was Consumer Reports. Did anyone really care what Consumer Reports said about audio gear, even in 1981?
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 17:26 |
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Blistex posted:Could someone give me the rundown on Bose? I keep getting guys in their 40-50's telling me that they make the best of everything, and their magic allows them to have a super They're garbage, just like that review. I've heard lots and lots of Bose systems, including the 901's. Not once have I ever been impressed with the sound. I actually like the sound of cheap 8" HTIB subwoofers over the Bose "Bass Module". Like this review, they offer no measurements except for dimensions of the product. If one were to measure these speakers using standard scientific measurements, one would find that they probably measure rather poorly. 8 drivers with no crossovers ? The interesting part of the review: quote:Much like a pair of Klipschorns, the Bose 901 lends itself to corner placement. Because the majority of the drivers face rearward, placement is the key to fine-tuning the imaging performance. These are nothing like the Klipschorns. These speakers have rear facing speakers that hope to reflect sound off the walls to make the soundfield appear larger. They're using mispointed drivers and what you're hearing is early reflections. Since Bose has no way to know what shape your walls are, what objects are near, or even what you walls are made of or the objects hanging from them, they have no way to know what these randomly reflected sound waves will sound like once they mind a way back to your ears. These concepts can work for surround speakers which aren't fed localised sounds, but are meant to emit non localised ambient sounds. Your main two speakers? No. The Klipschorn uses horn loaded woofers that are designed to use your walls as an extension of the horn. This is a mathematically repeatable setup with documentation showing exactly how to position them. If you can't place the Klipsch Corner Horns in the corners, you don't buy them, you buy Lascalas or Belles or Jubilees. And for $1400 for the Bose 901's, you could potentially get some Klipsch Heresey speakers through Amazon. A speaker that actually goes well with your garbage low powered audiophile tube amps and old vintage gear. And they're rebuildable, with real wood veneer that can be refinished many times, and drivers and crossover networks that can be repaired or replaced. Here are some Heresey's form the 80's being powered by a tiny T-amp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7WdmYL_MJk
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 17:59 |
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In my opinion, in many ways Bose and Apple Computer are quite similar. They both started with great products but now just design equipment that is manufactured overseas for a massive mark up. The build quality is acceptable, but with a little know-how you could find something better for the price. They are shiny and designed for people who don't care how it works I just want it to work now and look pretty.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 02:12 |
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I just found out what "DBT-free" audiophile forums are. God dammit people.
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# ? Apr 10, 2013 22:50 |
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They're magical places where all audiophile bullshit comes to life! Basically, whenever somebody mentions they visit such a site, you can automatically discount everything they say after that.
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# ? Apr 10, 2013 22:56 |
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Entropic posted:I just found out what "DBT-free" audiophile forums are. God dammit people. Ah, the homeopathic medicine of Audio Forums.
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# ? Apr 11, 2013 02:08 |
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Entropic posted:I just found out what "DBT-free" audiophile forums are. God dammit people. It's hilarious watching them try to justify it, too. First they'll go for the ol' "the methodology isn't fool-proof," then they'll insist that the subconscious picks up things we can't otherwise hear, then they'll get into how science has been wrong before so how much do we need it, really (we might be able to use science to build amps, but gently caress if we can use it to actually determine what they're doing)? Within a few pages it's devolved into a debate on philosophy and everyone's forgotten that people were originally arguing about whether or not expensive cables conduct electricity better than cheap ones. And this is all only with audio, mind you. Everything else works just fine. We can measure video at all points in the chain, we can use blind testing for medicine, but get sound involved and suddenly it's all ~beyond our understanding~ Audiophiles are delightful. sethsez fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 11, 2013 |
# ? Apr 11, 2013 02:27 |
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sethsez posted:It's hilarious watching them try to justify it, too. First they'll go for the ol' "the methodology isn't fool-proof," then they'll insist that the subconscious picks up things we can't otherwise hear, then they'll get into how science has been wrong before so how much do we need it, really (we might be able to use science to build amps, but gently caress if we can use it to actually determine what they're doing)? Within a few pages it's devolved into a debate on philosophy and everyone's forgotten that people were originally arguing about whether or not expensive cables conduct electricity better than cheap ones. "You can't measure an emotional response, so "science" trying to say it SHOULD sound the same is nonsense, because it doesn't FEEL the same" Literally the go-to argument on those places.
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# ? Apr 11, 2013 16:33 |
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Ron Burgundy posted:In my opinion, in many ways Bose and Apple Computer are quite similar. They both started with great products but now just design equipment that is manufactured overseas for a massive mark up. The build quality is acceptable, but with a little know-how you could find something better for the price. This isn't a good analogy because Apple stuff runs different software than their competitors so what you get cheaper isn't comparable in any way except a spec sheet. They do get some sales from hype but you can't argue that they offer the same experience as cheaper competitors. Plus stuff like the 10" iPad is price competitive. KozmoNaut posted:Here's a link someone posted in AI, it's a glowing review of the Bose 901. Let's play "spot the bullshit": quote:So what exactly happened when introducing the Blackbody? Like I said and wrote many times: if I don't hear the difference to some extent instantly, then I become very skeptical about it. True, there is always some time needed to adjust to new things. Nonetheless, throughout the years I learned that there is at least some significant change right up front, otherwise, there's nothing there worth mentioning. qirex fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 11, 2013 |
# ? Apr 11, 2013 20:49 |
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Which led me to this device. A "power conditioner"! http://www.lessloss.com/firewall-p-196.html Quoting the page itself: quote:No capacitors, no inductors, no resistors, no fuses, no diodes.
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# ? Apr 11, 2013 21:05 |
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Combat Pretzel posted:Which led me to this device. A "power conditioner"! But the wire is Thetan free, delivering a much warmer, richer sound!
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# ? Apr 11, 2013 21:43 |
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Combat Pretzel posted:Which led me to this device. A "power conditioner"! "I'm not someone who cares about all those silly audio tweaks out there, but man, this tweak...!" It's funny how many reviews of audiophile nonsense start this way, even from people who do nothing but review tweaks. It's like a tiny glimmer of self-awareness before being sucked back into the bullshit.
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# ? Apr 11, 2013 23:20 |
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sethsez posted:"I'm not someone who cares about all those silly audio tweaks out there, but man, this tweak...!" It seems pretty good, actually. If you want something to filter out frequencies from your power supply that are 1000-10,000 times past the threshold of human hearing then that thing will possibly do something, maybe. On the other hand, the way they suggest it all hooks together would mean there is a 1m length of cable after the box, which is plenty long enough to "act as an aerial" for AM/FM, meaning you can rest assured it's not actually doing anything those pesky scientists could measure. They also suggest you buy up-to 4, but don't even offer a pseudo-science explanation as to why this would be better than one. In fact, if they did then they'd discredit the need for one. This is brilliant; as good as whatever that box was that shielded your CD player from dark matter energy.
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# ? Apr 12, 2013 01:36 |
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These things are all audio placebos, really. Which, oddly enough, means they have a point about the DBTs (though not for the reasons they think)
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# ? Apr 14, 2013 02:04 |
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Amphigory posted:These things are all audio placebos, really. Which, oddly enough, means they have a point about the DBTs (though not for the reasons they think) Most would be willing to accept that while the actual objective temperature that can be measured using sensors doesn't change different people "feel" warmer or colder depending on other subjective priorities and tastes, so a raw temperature reading doesn't capture "the full experience". Audiophiles would be the guys who argue that red painted walls (as opposed to blue) change the light refraction to cause undetectable micro-heat-spots that can only be sensed by skin trained over decades and alters bouncing behavior of air molecules and the filtered photon quantums give the brownian motion a smoother, more natural unidirective flow - just plain snake-oil. The people arguing the former have a point. The latter "points" are either theoretically true but irrelevant or just complete pseudo-science nonsense.
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# ? Apr 14, 2013 05:54 |
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Yeah, it's like the color of a room changing the perception of temperature in it. Go back to your iPod docks and Britney Spears! Those of us will ears trained on decades of only 5 Albums (two of which are Quadraphonic test LPs*) know the real deal! *the other two are (insert widely accepted mainstream albums because we're afraid to say anything straying from the pack mentality for fear of being teased).
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 13:30 |
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Who wants a listening room in their house, when you can have a separate LISTENING BARN? (Click for masturbatory post/spec out)
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 04:08 |
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toplitzin posted:Who wants a listening room in their house, when you can have a separate LISTENING BARN? I found a site that says the MSRP on those speakers is $200,000.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 05:23 |
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Those speaker cables. "Due to the extreme engineering behind these cables, proper burn in will begin to occur after several hundred hours." Begin to occur. I guess they don't do refunds. http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/cables/speaker-cables/ KillHour fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 28, 2013 |
# ? Apr 28, 2013 06:18 |
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The turn table alone is around 70k. I guess if I was a billionaire I'd probably have some home with all that stuff and not even know about it. I'd wake up some morning, wander the wrong way and end up in room 756 and be "Oh. Pretty!".
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 07:14 |
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What's the irony with the turntable is that it has an Ortofon cartridge. That's a lowly common people brand, so what the gently caress!
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 11:46 |
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wellllllllll, the upper level SPUs are certainly out of most people's (sensible) price range. I haven't looked at their catalogue lately, but they certainly have premium products.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 12:42 |
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Ugh that cabling is a loving mess. Also that room seems to have an awful lot of flat shiny surfaces...
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 13:30 |
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I like all the little cable stands, no doubt made of dark matter for better dynamics.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 15:23 |
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KillHour posted:I guess they don't do refunds. http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mmseven/ posted:Did we miss anything? However they do know their audience: http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html posted:61 years old, married 38 years, work in retail, love music and audio. http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mmseven/ posted:Also, as we get older we hear high frequencies differently than when we were younger. Evolution Acoustics incorporates adjustable tweeters to suit personal sensitivities and preferences. Look, we know you hear things "differently", but our loudspeakers are ~~rich in colors~~, and what are you going to spend those millions earned by "work in retail" on anyway?
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 15:32 |
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I bet he's got his EQ or tone controls set exactly like my dad has: all treble, all the time (and perhaps a tiny bass boost). Being the drummer in a rock band in the 70s and 80s and again for the last 10 years or so with no hearing protection at all has a price. He's also been a Bose reseller for a couple of years now, take that as you will
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 16:32 |
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yes my uncle certainly hears even higher frequencies than me, though he can't hear anything between 16-20k.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 16:38 |
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That turntable bugs me. It's $70k, it's going out of its way to look clean and expensive. . . and it has bare wires and threaded rod sticking out of the back of the tonearms?
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 17:03 |
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Audiophile or not, those speakers are pretty badass if the specs are true (doubt it). Either way, I'm sure those speakers do sound unrivaled to most anything but the fancy DIY projects people do. The amps, meh. Whatever. The cables and the vinyl equipment probably sound no different than normal mid-grade stuff. Hh8hh mentioned the room though. Nice looking room, I bet it MEASURES like poo poo though. All sorts of very reflective surfaces. Why do these insanely expensive listening room and million dollar home theater owners never post measurements ? Its like a crazy drag race car and the owner never bothers to look at his time slips.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 17:13 |
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Blistex posted:That turntable bugs me. It's $70k, it's going out of its way to look clean and expensive. . . and it has bare wires and threaded rod sticking out of the back of the tonearms? I love it. Dude spends thousands upon thousands of dollars on special cables and holders... and has a chunk of CAT5/6 with some of the pairs spared off and covered with some half-rear end shrink tape for the turntable.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 17:26 |
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He has the same acoustic tiles that are on the wall in the raised parts of the ceiling (you can see them in the first picture). Naturally the rug and the furniture will help, and I think the giant shelves of vinyl will make a difference as well (CD cases might even be ok). The room also has interesting geometry to it (I'm looking at the angles, juts, and those weird columns built into the walls to the left and right of the chair), and I would not be surprised if he had an expert design it to give him better results without having to sacrifice sound quality too much. Then again he's also the kind of guy that would probably have mentioned it if an expert did plan the room to have better acoustics.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 17:31 |
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Upon further research it looks like the phono cartridge, the Ortofon MC Anna, the TOTL for Ortofon is only $4,999.99 I'm sure it's the best thing I've ever heard, but for 5k it seems a little bit cheap to go on a 70 grand turntable with 200k speakers.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 17:41 |
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Blistex posted:He has the same acoustic tiles that are on the wall in the raised parts of the ceiling (you can see them in the first picture). Naturally the rug and the furniture will help, and I think the giant shelves of vinyl will make a difference as well (CD cases might even be ok). The room also has interesting geometry to it (I'm looking at the angles, juts, and those weird columns built into the walls to the left and right of the chair), and I would not be surprised if he had an expert design it to give him better results without having to sacrifice sound quality too much. Then again he's also the kind of guy that would probably have mentioned it if an expert did plan the room to have better acoustics. He did http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html posted:the room is purpose designed as a 2 channel listening room by Chris Huston of Rives Audio.
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 17:42 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 14:48 |
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jonathan posted:Why do these insanely expensive listening room and million dollar home theater owners never post measurements?
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# ? Apr 28, 2013 18:17 |