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DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

Blooot posted:

Yeah sorry, I should have been more clear. A better way of phrasing: if you were taking your modern bone-stock car to the track for a single day on r-compounds instead of your more focused racing/sports cars, what level of prep would you bother with?

Bleed with good fluid, and make sure the pads have plenty of meat left. Add camber if you can, if not expect the outside of the tires to be destroyed pretty quickly. Heavy Mac-strut FWD cars without proper camber destroy tires in short order.


Have fun, change the brake fluid!

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laymil
Sep 13, 2005

so it goes...

DJ Commie posted:

Bleed with good fluid, and make sure the pads have plenty of meat left. Add camber if you can, if not expect the outside of the tires to be destroyed pretty quickly. Heavy Mac-strut FWD cars without proper camber destroy tires in short order.


Have fun, change the brake fluid!

This, plus have a spare set of pads or be prepared to drive home on the backing plates.

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




I would do pads and fluid at minimum. I don't like the idea of finding out your brakes are faded when it's a bit too late.

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

Larrymer posted:

I would do pads and fluid at minimum. I don't like the idea of finding out your brakes are faded when it's a bit too late.

Yeah this is what I would do. A set of good pads should be <$100 and that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going off track and bending something.

Especially since you know what your doing on track and won't be timid about going fast.


Not sure about modern GTI's, but I would mark where the front camber adjuster is now, and then crank them to max camber for the day.

Just read front camber is not adjustable. Maybe get a set of these: http://www.awesomegti.com/superpro-front-camber-adjustable-ball-joints-mk5-mk6-golf-jetta-a3-s3-8p-leon-mk2-octavia-mk2
and then sell them on Vortex after the track?

That's a lot of work though and probably not worth that level of effort for a single track day with tires you're trashing anyway.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Does that car have front struts? I've been looking around and everyone is using camber plates or modded control arms. Can't you just get an aftermarket bolt or slot the struts?

Octopus Magic
Dec 19, 2003

I HATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU LIKE* AND I NEED TO BE SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT EVERY TIME I POST

*unless it's a DSM in which case we cool ^_^

aventari posted:

Yeah this is what I would do. A set of good pads should be <$100 and that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going off track and bending something.

I wish a full set of good pads was less than 100 for the 4 pot evo brakes...! poo poo, not even for my old 2 pot dsm brakes was under 100 for the fronts alone. What kind of pads run that cheap....? Certainly nothing that hold up to heat on a car thats >3000lbs

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Stoptechs are probably the only thing that cheap. Can handle a track day if you have big brakes. A friend of mine used them at streets of willow in his R33 and said they worked well enough.

Otherwise you want a DS3000, DTC-60, CL6, etc.

jamal fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 7, 2013

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Throw some proper track pads on it, flush the brake fluid and go to town. Maybe do some other regular maintenance fluids if they are close to their normal change intervals (tranny/diff/oil/etc).

Who cares about camber if your goal is to just burn the tires up. You'll kill the outside edges of the fronts, swap em to the rear 1/2 way through and run em till they cord. If you cared about going as fast as possible or getting your money's worth out of tires then go and fix the geometry. But since you only intend on tracking this thing once just do the brakes and go.

Laffo on <$100 pads. Even pads for a Miata are ~$200 a set.

Octopus Magic
Dec 19, 2003

I HATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU LIKE* AND I NEED TO BE SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT EVERY TIME I POST

*unless it's a DSM in which case we cool ^_^

jamal posted:

Stoptechs are probably the only thing that cheap. Can handle a track day if you have big brakes. A friend of mine used them at streets of willow in his R33 and said they worked well enough.

Otherwise you want a DS3000, DTC-60, CL6, etc.

So were they basically on the backing plates at the end of the day? I find it hard to believe that pads that cheap could handle that much heat without breaking apart by the end of the day.

(unless he was going slow)

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Which brake pads should I check out for my 2008 Z06? I haven't been able to sell it on its old pads and tires, so I'm gonna refresh it for the spring and either drive it or try selling again.
I've taken it to one track day and abhorred the F1 Supercar EMTs on it now. I've definitely settled on Michelin Pilot Super Sports for the tires.

Haven't picked a brake pad yet. I'm not looking for a race pad, but I don't mind decreased performance until the pad is heated up. Something that holds up well at a occasional track day and doesn't have huge amounts of dust would be great. I have black wheels that I get cleaned frequently, so I'm probably still less averse to dust than others.

Having been hypnotized by the ads in the last few Grassroots Motorsports issues, I was thinking StopTech. But would like to hear what others say. FWIW, the Z06 weighs around 3,200 lbs.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
For what they cost, you could try them. I consider them kind of like an HP+ combined with an HPS. Doesn't make noise, works when cold, has similar cf and MOT. The Ferodo DS2500 is similar, but more friction and a higher temp rating. Neither are really a track pad though.

The CL RC5+ is a great pad that would probably be perfect for you, but they are really expensive. A friend of mine had them on his EVO that saw a ton of track time but was also driven on the street and really liked them. There are even some guys street driving with the RC6 (the most popular CL race pad) although they are pretty harsh on rotors when cold.

jamal fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 7, 2013

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
drat, those are expensive, but they look tempting. I couldn't find OEM fitting pads from Ferodo or StopTech. Tirerack's StopTech pads seem to be only for base C6s.
I still haven't manned up to getting sports seats, so I could pony up more for these CLs. I wish more places did brake pad comparos like they do for tires.

Octopus Magic
Dec 19, 2003

I HATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU LIKE* AND I NEED TO BE SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT EVERY TIME I POST

*unless it's a DSM in which case we cool ^_^
What's your budget? Porterfield does a front Z06 setup for around 250-300ish depending on compound:

http://porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=2470

(I blew way too much on my brakepads for my car just recently :()

Octopus Magic fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 7, 2013

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Tirerack has fewer than 2 (or 1 or 0) Michelin PSS in 325/30/19. PSS supply must be dwindling. Michelin not going to put out another batch til May, which according to my shop is not a reliable estimate.

Should I go up to 345? It seems like a lot of extra tire for the rear. The alternative is +$140 from a local shop.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

kimbo305 posted:

drat, those are expensive, but they look tempting. I couldn't find OEM fitting pads from Ferodo or StopTech. Tirerack's StopTech pads seem to be only for base C6s.
I still haven't manned up to getting sports seats, so I could pony up more for these CLs. I wish more places did brake pad comparos like they do for tires.

Stoptech makes them

309.11850 front
309.11851 rear

And actually it's the same pad front and rear, except the front has two more.

neither of my distributors have them in stock so it would take me at least a week to get them. Amazon is probably easier.

jamal fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 8, 2013

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

FatCow posted:

Laffo on <$100 pads. Even pads for a Miata are ~$200 a set.

I'm just talking front pads. Maybe I didn't mention that. I assumed anyone here would also realize changing the rears for one track day is goddamn ridiculous.

https://www.topbrakes.com/carSeriesDetails.php/1060/Racing+Brake+Pads/HAWK/Hawk+HT-10/1987+BMW+325iS+E30+Chassis

$109 track pads. Last summer I ran these in all day back-to-back sessions at Willow Springs. 95+ degree ambient.


Here's Ferodo DS2500's that I ran on my 99 Miata for 4 track days + street driving with zero fade or brake issues. $109
https://www.topbrakes.com/carSeriesDetails.php/14236/Street+Brake+Pads/FERODO/Ferodo+DS2500/1999+MAZDA+MIATA+MX5+


As for Bloot's GTI, he can get a set of Porterfield R4S's for $90
https://www.topbrakes.com/carSeriesDetails.php/24735/Street+Brake+Pads/PORTERFIELD/Porterfield+R4-S/2010+VOLKSWAGEN+GTI+2.0L+Turbo

Which are not track pads, but for a single trackday they'll be worlds better than the OEM crap _and_ he can keep using them on the street when he's done.

aventari fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 8, 2013

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

For a car that you track a couple times a year, but mostly drive on the street, is it common to just have two sets of pads and swap them out on track days? I've been looking at reviews for the pads you mentioned, and most seem to complain about the noise when street driving. There doesn't seem to be a good compromise that works for both track and street driving. Sounds like a bit of a chore to do every time you head to the track, but it also sounds worth the effort.

e: I guess if you have a separate set of track wheels/tires as well, then it's less of a chore since you're in there anyway. Hmm...

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE
I've never had a separate set of track pads.

The Ferodo DS2500's have worked great on the street and track for me in a Miata, VW Scirocco turbo and Rabbit GTI.


Those are all lightweight cars though. Heavier cars probably have different needs.

Octopus Magic
Dec 19, 2003

I HATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU LIKE* AND I NEED TO BE SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT EVERY TIME I POST

*unless it's a DSM in which case we cool ^_^
You can run race pads on the street, but they like to eat rotors/squeal/not brake too well at first.

If you can swap, swap them.

Also some pads have some mean brake dust that can eat wheel finishes.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002

ColdPie posted:

For a car that you track a couple times a year, but mostly drive on the street, is it common to just have two sets of pads and swap them out on track days? I've been looking at reviews for the pads you mentioned, and most seem to complain about the noise when street driving. There doesn't seem to be a good compromise that works for both track and street driving. Sounds like a bit of a chore to do every time you head to the track, but it also sounds worth the effort.

e: I guess if you have a separate set of track wheels/tires as well, then it's less of a chore since you're in there anyway. Hmm...

I've done this on my e30 when I was using it for DD and track duty.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


ColdPie posted:

For a car that you track a couple times a year, but mostly drive on the street, is it common to just have two sets of pads and swap them out on track days? I've been looking at reviews for the pads you mentioned, and most seem to complain about the noise when street driving. There doesn't seem to be a good compromise that works for both track and street driving. Sounds like a bit of a chore to do every time you head to the track, but it also sounds worth the effort.

Yup I keep a set of track pads and wheels/tires for track days. Drive to/from the track and daily on your street stuff then get to the track swap and play, or drive to/from the track on your track stuff depending on how far it is. Pretty common with the group I do event with.

kill me now
Sep 14, 2003

Why's Hank crying?

'CUZ HE JUST GOT DUNKED ON!
I've used dual purpose pads and have had a set of street pads and track pads. I very much prefer having two sets of pads for a number of reasons.

First off any pad that's good on the track is going to squeal, a lot. No dual purpose pad is going to anywhere near the braking performance or heat resistance of a dedicated track pad. You can always get home on a set of pads even if you smoke your entire track set. Changing pads gives you a good chance to examine your rotors, calipers, and lines while you have the wheels off.

It took me maybe 15 minutes tops to swap pads and change wheels on my SRT8 when I arrived at the track in the morning (and that's without an electric impact wrench). Granted the calipers on that car were very easy to get the pads out and in but its probably not as much of a hassle as you think it is.

For a dedicated track pad I really like Carbotech XP12/10's if you're running slicks or 10/8's if you're just running r comps or street tires.

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

kill me now posted:

Changing pads gives you a good chance to examine your rotors, calipers, and lines while you have the wheels off.


This is a great reason to have a separate set that you swap out.

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
ATTN NC racers. Our club's resident insurance agent posted this to our forums. Cross posting it here. Guess Texans are unique now in being covered. :(

I'm not an agent, blah, blah, consult your own agent before taking this as true.

quote:

Well, the free ride is over, there has never been an exclusion on the NC auto policy for racing, etc. but one has been put in under the cover of darkness.
here is the actual endorsement:

The North Carolina Rate Bureau [the means this is in all policies in NC-******] revised the Amendatory Endorsement by adding a Racing Exclusion to the Liability Coverage, Medical Payments Coverage and Coverage for Damage to Your Auto sections of the policy. The Amendatory Endorsement, NC0013 (Ed. 4/12), amends the Personal Auto Policy, NC0001 (Ed. 6/05). This change applies to policies effective 10/1/2012 and after.

Part A – Liability Coverage

Liability Exclusion B.3. is being added to exclude liability coverage in excess of the minimum limits required by the financial responsibility law of North Carolina for damages arising out of any prearranged, organized or spontaneous racing contest, speed contest, demolition, stunt activity or competitive driving event (including any practice or preparation for such an event). The exclusion also excludes liability coverage in excess of the minimum limits required by the financial responsibility law of North Carolina for damages arising out of the use of a vehicle at any facility designed for racing or high performance driving, unless it is being used for purposes other than high speed or high performance driving.

Part B – Medical Payments Coverage

Medical Payments Coverage Exclusion 12. is being added to exclude medical payments coverage for damages while occupying any vehicle that is participating in any prearranged, organized or spontaneous racing contest, speed contest, demolition, stunt activity or competitive driving event (including any practice or preparation for such an event). The exclusion also excludes medical payment coverage arising out of the use of a vehicle at any facility designed for racing or high performance driving, unless it is being used for purposes other than high speed or high performance driving.

Part D – Coverage For Damage To Your Auto

Coverage for Damage To Your Auto, Exclusion 14., is being added to exclude damages while occupying any owned or non-owned auto arising out of any prearranged, organized or spontaneous racing contest, speed contest, demolition, stunt activity or competitive driving event (including any practice or preparation for such an event). The exclusion also excludes damages arising out of the use of any vehicle at any facility designed for racing or high performance driving, unless it is being used for purposes other than high speed or high performance driving.

The Amendatory Endorsement NC0013 (Ed. 4/12) and the stuffer that explains the changes to the Policyholder, UF-4841 (Ed. 10/12), are available on Forms-On-Demand.

What does that all mean?

Part A- if someone makes a claim against you the company only has to pay the minium limits of 30k per person or 60k per accident for Bodily injury or 25k for Physical damage.

Part B & D. No coverage for you or your car.

As far as I know this hasn't been tested in court which will show how it finally shakes out. Does an Autocross come under the definition of a speed contest. I DON'T KNOW. What about a driving school? I DON'T KNOW.

IN MY OPINION: The greatest risk you face is running over a kid in the paddock, by the letter of this endorsement that kid can only receive 30k for their injury. I would be suprised if a company would deny coverage based on this exclusion. Other damage, they might. I have always told my clients: If you have an incident at the track the company will pay and then probably cancel (I say that for all companies) Now I don't know if they will pay.

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
Aw shucks. No better time to start tracking a worthless piece of crap then, I guess

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

Aw shucks. No better time to start tracking a worthless piece of crap then, I guess

You can and probably should get track day insurance in any event unless you have a beater. It costs a bit, but worth not having to go to court over an insurance contract. Most insurance companies, even with somewhat ambiguous language in contracts, are going to fight tooth and nail against paying anything that happens near a racetrack.

Hog Obituary
Jun 11, 2006
start the day right
I'd probably forgo trackday insurance on any car under 7k or so. The rates tend to bottom out at about $140 per day or something which will get you $15k worth of insurance. And the insurers tend to charge a 5% to 10% deductible (% of the insured value).

Of course, in doing so you'll have to be able to eat a $7k loss, but realistically, there might be a couple grand worth of parts in your wrecked car, even if it's otherwise a total loss.

parid
Mar 18, 2004
I wrecked my first FD at a track day. It hurt (the pocket book) but it wasn't the end of the world. The car was probably worth ~12k at the time, I was able to get ~5k of parts of out it. Still at 7k loss and I continue the vow I made to not track cars I love that much.

That's what ChumpCars are for. So much less drama when that one gets put in the wall. I have a lot more fun driving this pile of junk at 9/10ths and occasionally running out of talent and go 11/10ths than if I were to baby my nice car around at 7/10's all day.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

Personally, I don't race or track a car I'm not willing to lose or walk away from in a heartbeat. Saves a lot of heartache when it happens.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
The property aspect of the insurance law change is a minor point, the bigger point is losing your liability. God forbid something goes awry and you wind up hitting another HPDE driver or a corner worker. Not having a liability or umbrella policy claim there would blow.

eriddy
Jan 21, 2005

sixty nine lmao
One of the worst things about track days is just having that constant background thought of "oh poo poo I hope nothing happens this my daily driver."

Is there any way to get around these concerns or is the solution just having a dedicated track car?

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
Get a dedicated track car or get a dedicated daily driver.

My biggest fear was always how to get my mangled heap back home. I need a worthless piece of crap tow vehicle too.

Crustashio
Jul 27, 2000

ruh roh
Must be nice to be able to have insurance. If I use my local track I have ZERO coverage. The only way I could get covered is the BMW school and it's 500 bucks to track with a bunch of rich assholes.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

Get a dedicated track car or get a dedicated daily driver.

My biggest fear was always how to get my mangled heap back home. I need a worthless piece of crap tow vehicle too.
The easy (cheap) answer is to find a friend who trailers their streetable car to the track. That way, your backup plan to get home can be sending your car home on their trailer, while you drive their car back.

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
I've already scratched that one off my bucket list.

shoopeach
Aug 13, 2012

FatCow posted:

Guess Texans are unique now in being covered. :(


Even as a Texan I would never rely on my personal auto policy to cover anything related to the track. As mentioned beforehand, I'm sure they will fight tooth and nail to make sure you don't get covered and will probably drop you afterwards. I know there are stories of some people who were covered, but I'm sure there are many others who were not.

There is a local DE program/group here that requires insurance to participate in their events and it still blows my mind. I once got into an argument on some car forum about it and I had to remind the guy he was driving on a racetrack and not i10.

Longpig Bard
Dec 29, 2004



eriddy posted:

One of the worst things about track days is just having that constant background thought of "oh poo poo I hope nothing happens this my daily driver."

Is there any way to get around these concerns or is the solution just having a dedicated track car?

Keep traction and stability control on? :shrug: My car feels like the motor has died when those kick on and I've gone past the danger slip angle, itd be very hard to wreck it unless I was trying to.

Octopus Magic
Dec 19, 2003

I HATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU LIKE* AND I NEED TO BE SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT EVERY TIME I POST

*unless it's a DSM in which case we cool ^_^

parid posted:


That's what ChumpCars are for. So much less drama when that one gets put in the wall. I have a lot more fun driving this pile of junk at 9/10ths and occasionally running out of talent and go 11/10ths than if I were to baby my nice car around at 7/10's all day.

Chumpcars means you have to have a trailer, a tow vehicle, a trailer, and all those necessities that are required for having an actual racecar, to which I might say if you're going to that extreme, you might as well get an SCCA car/NASA/what have you.

I might be passing too much judgement on the 500 dollar race car concept, but I like a nice car and the engineering behind it as well.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Octopus Magic posted:

Chumpcars means you have to have a trailer, a tow vehicle, a trailer, and all those necessities that are required for having an actual racecar, to which I might say if you're going to that extreme, you might as well get an SCCA car/NASA/what have you.

I might be passing too much judgement on the 500 dollar race car concept, but I like a nice car and the engineering behind it as well.

Not to mention all the safety equipment (cage, tires, wheels, brakes, seats, harness, etc) not included in the $500.

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c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

Something a lot of people seem to forget about running at a track. Damage to the property. You pay for that. That nice armco you just slammed your car into? You're paying to replace it. The 100ft section of wire fence you knocked over as you spun out? Paying to replace it. I still remember the guy who took out a portable light for a night race. He had to pay a few grand and that was after event insurance paid some of it.

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