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The Dave piece kinda takes it out of "Pillman was a genius" territory and places it in "Pillman took method acting three steps too far and went insane just because he wanted Lex Luger money." With the shittiness of the business doing the rest. From the outside it seems like a series of deft maneuvers, but it seems to owe mostly to Eric Bischoff, and really most people with decision-making power in wrestling, being total idiots. Not to say Pillman wasn't clever, but he didn't need to be that clever to run circles around the business. He ran on fumes for years and kept himself in the game by, at the core, being really annoying. Think about that. No one in wrestling was mature enough to see through that. This is about the carniest it gets.
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Mar 15, 2013 17:48
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 13:35 |
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The Dave piece kinda takes it out of "Pillman was a genius" territory and places it in "Pillman took method acting three steps too far and went insane just because he wanted Lex Luger money." With the shittiness of the business doing the rest. If you're in a stupid business and you take advantage of said stupid business you're still a genius in that business.
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Mar 15, 2013 17:55
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:If you're in a stupid business and you take advantage of said stupid business you're still a genius in that business. Pretty much. It takes skill to out-carny the carnies.
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Mar 15, 2013 19:42
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I'm reading that Pillman thing and holy poo poo Meltzer's writing sucks nuts.
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Mar 15, 2013 22:03
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VogeGandire posted:Pretty much. It takes skill to out-carny the carnies. Well, there's no shame in being beaten by the best.
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Mar 15, 2013 23:18
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Monkeycheese posted:I'm reading that Pillman thing and holy poo poo Meltzer's writing sucks nuts. Greatest sports journalist of the 20th century! 
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Mar 15, 2013 23:19
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Monkeycheese posted:I'm reading that Pillman thing and holy poo poo Meltzer's writing sucks nuts. He's pretty terrible, but he knows so much about his subject that it sort of adds to the charm. Like the paragraph that ends "And then Pillman ended a hostage situation single handedly" Your mind goes "I need to know more about this event". For any other writer that sentence would be an entire article. Not for Dave. That's just a throw away sentence. But it doesn't matter because he's got so much more interesting stuff to tell you.
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Mar 15, 2013 23:32
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Admittedly, my mind jumped to some guy holding a woman at gunpoint and Pillman ambushing him with a pencil stabbing to the face. I miss Pillman.
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Mar 15, 2013 23:39
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Monkeycheese posted:I'm reading that Pillman thing and holy poo poo Meltzer's writing sucks nuts. And yet still the best and almost only wrestling journalist. Who covers MMA and probably makes more money doing that.
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Mar 15, 2013 23:41
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:And yet still the best and almost only wrestling journalist. Who covers MMA and probably makes more money doing that. I doubt that. MMA may be the bigger deal but Wrestling is where his name matters.
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Mar 15, 2013 23:46
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Gonzo McFee posted:I doubt that. MMA may be the bigger deal but Wrestling is where his name matters. New York Court system begs to differ.
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Mar 16, 2013 05:00
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Monkeycheese posted:I'm reading that Pillman thing and holy poo poo Meltzer's writing sucks nuts. I swear a few times I had to reread the same poorly structured sentence four times just to try and makes sense of it and be sure I was getting the right message. I never read the Observer because I just don't care to that degree and I've always heard he was a bad writer, but that's ridiculous. How do you write as long as he has and do it so badly?
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Mar 16, 2013 05:53
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With the death of synchtube I am going to try to continue the weekly 1996 Nitros. Until a better alternative appears I am going to do GDTs in this forum. They may not be on the same day every week, but I am going to shoot for Tuesdays or Wednesdays at 8. The shows are only an hour so I may double up next week, then do the Clash of the Champions the week after, that way we stay somewhat at the same pace as the Observer back issues.
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Mar 16, 2013 07:33
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Tuesday is best since there's no competition.
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Mar 16, 2013 07:40
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Tuesday is best since there's no competition. In what has now become the final Nitro Synchtube (RIP), it was recommended to me that I move my just-started mostly puro/actually "good" stuff streaming to Tuesday instead of opposite Raw since other people used to do puro/lucha/joshi/US indy/etc that day anyway but since stopped. Provided a workable alternative is figured out and Nitro isn't gonna stay on Wednesday, I figured I'd take their advice. Not too much overlap between the crowds, but since I never really saw much Nitro prior to it going super long I'll just work around whatever MRP decides on.
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Mar 16, 2013 16:40
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STAC Goat posted:I swear a few times I had to reread the same poorly structured sentence four times just to try and makes sense of it and be sure I was getting the right message. I never read the Observer because I just don't care to that degree and I've always heard he was a bad writer, but that's ridiculous. How do you write as long as he has and do it so badly? He publishes it himself, so he has no editor to tell him "This sentence makes no sense, fix it."
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Mar 16, 2013 18:31
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rotinaj posted:He publishes it himself, so he has no editor to tell him "This sentence makes no sense, fix it." He does have an editor. Apparently sometimes he has a second editor take a look at it, too.
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Mar 17, 2013 00:16
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:He does have an editor. Apparently sometimes he has a second editor take a look at it, too. He has an editor in the sense he has someone look at the spelling and grammar at 3 AM. He doesn't have someone to send it back to him. It would be impossible to do that with the sheer length of the Observer though, for a weekly publication written by one guy, it is pretty drat long.
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Mar 17, 2013 00:41
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MassRayPer posted:He has an editor in the sense he has someone look at the spelling and grammar at 3 AM. He doesn't have someone to send it back to him. It would be impossible to do that with the sheer length of the Observer though, for a weekly publication written by one guy, it is pretty drat long. It's absolutely not impossible to get an editor for something that length in the format and timeline at which Dave publishes. I've worked at publications that have similar timelines and it can be and is done often. It may or may not be possible to hire someone given the Observers revenues (I don't know how the finances at F4W/WO work) but even that is doubtful because you can find journalism interns to do just about anything for free or cheap in exchange for experience/recommendations.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:26
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flashy_mcflash posted:It's absolutely not impossible to get an editor for something that length in the format and timeline at which Dave publishes. I've worked at publications that have similar timelines and it can be and is done often. It may or may not be possible to hire someone given the Observers revenues (I don't know how the finances at F4W/WO work) but even that is doubtful because you can find journalism interns to do just about anything for free or cheap in exchange for experience/recommendations. I suppose it isn't impossible, but it would require the Observer to be written differently, at this point Dave writes it, finishes it at 3 AM, sends it to Vinny and then posts it. As it is the Observer tends to not have any Wednesday breaking news in it, if it has to be done even earlier that means its more out of date.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:45
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Also, in a few months Flex Kavana should make his debut in USWA. He should also wrestle at a few WWF house shows but I'm not sure what name he'll be under.
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Mar 17, 2013 04:07
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Unless something comes up, I will be posting a GDT for 8 PM EDT tonight (Tuesday)so we can watch WCW MONDAY NIGHT LIVE! I haven't decided if we'll watch one episode or two.
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Mar 19, 2013 09:13
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if you've the bandwidth for it, livestream has a chatbox and stuff.
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Mar 19, 2013 15:32
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I'm watching the Jericho DVD, and they're going over the Jericho v. Goldberg feud, and oh my god, it's so depressing, because it's the funniest drat thing I've ever seen out of WCW and apparently Goldberg's ego was too big for it, it's so depressing this didn't work out.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:31
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I don't really think it was Goldbergs ego that nixed that. When he was in WCW he seemed to be mostly directed by Hogan and that crew so it was more likely to be Hogan/Nash/Bischoff that probably didn't like Jericho or think he could draw money in a PPV match with Goldberg. You also have to keep in mind that Goldberg was (at least initially) very naive to how the world of wrestling worked and he figured (I guess somewhat rightfully) that since he was getting this big push that he was the big star of the show.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:39
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Goldberg didn't understand that Jericho mocking him and then eventually being destroyed when they finally met wouldn't be a negative for him. He just saw it all as a comedy program and didn't want to do comedy.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:15
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The 1-22-96 Observer is up, but it is almost entirely the awards so there's no news this week. Doesn't mean there's no humor!quote:MOST UNIMPROVED quote:MOST OBNOXIOUS quote:MOST OVERRATED Not WCW related but I giggled: quote:MOST UNDERRATED quote:BEST PROMOTION quote:WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER quote:WORST MAJOR WRESTLING CARD quote:MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC quote:WORST WRESTLER quote:WORST TELEVISION SHOW quote:WORST FEUD OF THE YEAR quote:WORST ON INTERVIEWS quote:WORST PROMOTION They got a good one! quote:BEST GIMMICK quote:WORST GIMMICK quote:MOST EMBARRASSING WRESTLER If you want to watch this week's Nitro, go here in 45 minutes: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3539317
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Mar 20, 2013 00:18
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What's the story with the Mean Gene 1-900 hotline that won worst promotional tactic? Not familiar with that one since I wasn't watching wrestling that year. And I thought WCW was supposedly at least better than the WWF during that period?
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Mar 20, 2013 00:37
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WCW had a hotline that Okerlund used to plug with a mixture of lies, innuendo, and really lovely stuff in an attempt to make a couple quick extra bucks.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iG_YvbcEDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpZcHEDZhY0 Also saw someone post how they won a game on the ECW Hotline and their prize never came. Paper Jam Dipper fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 01:24
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I found a synchtube alternative called https://www.togethertube.com Seems pretty good, and almost like Synchtube, it just only accepts Youtube videos (which shouldn't be a problem really). Has chat and syncing.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:53
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Goldust as worst gimmick smacks of homophobia there.
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Mar 20, 2013 03:35
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Red posted:Goldust as worst gimmick smacks of homophobia there. In what way? In what way is it homophobic to find a gimmick where a straight guy plays a deviant sexual character with homosexual characteristics who molests his opponents in the ring? Do gay people act that way? Is that what you think is a proper representation of alternate sexuality? Do you know many gay people who sexually assault others?
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Mar 20, 2013 03:37
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MassRayPer posted:In what way? In what way is it homophobic to find a gimmick where a straight guy plays a deviant sexual character with homosexual characteristics who molests his opponents in the ring? Do gay people act that way? Is that what you think is a proper representation of alternate sexuality? Do you know many gay people who sexually assault others? There were studies done back then asking viewers why they booed Goldust. The common answer: "Because he's gay.". Edit: I'm simplifying what LGBT groups were trying to communicate to the WWF back then, but that's the gist. And Jesus Christ, MR, settle the gently caress down.
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Mar 20, 2013 03:39
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MassRayPer posted:In what way? In what way is it homophobic to find a gimmick where a straight guy plays a deviant sexual character with homosexual characteristics who molests his opponents in the ring? Do gay people act that way? Is that what you think is a proper representation of alternate sexuality? Do you know many gay people who sexually assault others? You're really overestimating the intelligence of Wrestling Observer readers in the mid-1990's.
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Mar 20, 2013 03:44
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Red posted:There were studies done back then asking viewers why they booed Goldust. And yet Adrian Street was voted Best Gimmick one year. When gay gimmicks are well done and draw, they get positive reactions in the Observer awards, when they are incredibly offensive and stupid like Goldust, they get negative reactions. It's that simple. The gimmick got heel heat in the WWF because the idea was to make people really uncomfortable by making him as deviant and gay seeming to the audience. So yes, people would react that way. If you took the same survey for Slaughter in 91 you would get "He's anti American and Iraqi." What made it offensive was how far they went with it and what happened in the ring. If you read the Observer back issues it is very obvious what Dave finds offensive about the gimmick, from there it isn't hard to imagine why Observer readers felt it was so bad.
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Mar 20, 2013 03:53
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MassRayPer posted:And yet Adrian Street was voted Best Gimmick one year. When gay gimmicks are well done and draw, they get positive reactions in the Observer awards, when they are incredibly offensive and stupid like Goldust, they get negative reactions. It's that simple. The gimmick got heel heat in the WWF because the idea was to make people really uncomfortable by making him as deviant and gay seeming to the audience. So yes, people would react that way. If you took the same survey for Slaughter in 91 you would get "He's anti American and Iraqi." What made it offensive was how far they went with it and what happened in the ring. If you read the Observer back issues it is very obvious what Dave finds offensive about the gimmick, from there it isn't hard to imagine why Observer readers felt it was so bad. Adrian Street is a bit before my time, but wasn't his gimmick supposed to be more David Bowie-esque? Goldust was more in-your-face, and my gut reaction doesn't give the Observer readers/voters as much credit as you do.
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Mar 20, 2013 04:09
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Red posted:Adrian Street is a bit before my time, but wasn't his gimmick supposed to be more David Bowie-esque? If it was voted Best Gimmick I would be much more likely to find that homophobic because of the way it was portrayed. When an offensively homophobic gimmick gets treated negatively, it's hard to think the people who hated it because "WTF FAGS!!!!!!" instead of "Jesus Christ..." If they found homosexuality disgusting and deviant, they would think Goldust was great because he was reinforcing their beliefs.
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Mar 20, 2013 04:18
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Regardless, there's absolutely no reason that the Dungeon of Doom shouldn't have won over Goldust.
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Mar 20, 2013 04:20
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Adrian Street, well... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bhLK6XPKCs Yeah.
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Mar 20, 2013 04:40
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