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Just a small detail: "Yakame" is actually America-Chinese cuisine, not korean  . So I guess Herc was slightly righter (but for the same, racist reasons  ).
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Mar 18, 2013 21:29
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I thought ones bubs stole were total baking soda, and maybe from a whole nother crew, not necessarily Avons people.
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Mar 18, 2013 21:33
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That's the impression I got too, that they were just some dudes who had decided to try and cash in on the new yellow-tops by pretending to sell some and then getting out with the money before the junkies came back or Avon's crew heard and sent some guys down to bust heads.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:06
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Wee-Bey makes the quickest food run ever in that last scene, the way it's edited makes it seem like he's only gone 1-2 minutes tops. Motherfucker even got cheese fries.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:07
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Fragmented posted:Wee-Bey makes the quickest food run ever in that last scene, the way it's edited makes it seem like he's only gone 1-2 minutes tops. Motherfucker even got cheese fries. Yeah that bothered me too.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:11
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I never noticed before that Prop Joe says his player is from Europe. Who knew The Greek was into basketball? I also love how nearly everyone talking about that scene takes Avon at his word that Joe is illiterate, because he can't read the plays on his clipboard. Yeah, sure, the owner of a successful repair shop/drug kingpin of the entire east side can't read. It's not like basketball play diagrams are pretty complicated or anything... 
Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 00:15
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Spoilers Below posted:I never noticed before that Prop Joe says his player is from Europe. Who knew The Greek was into basketball? holy poo poo 
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Mar 19, 2013 00:19
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Spoilers Below posted:I never noticed before that Prop Joe says his player is from Europe. Who knew The Greek was into basketball? The kid is from Baltimore. He played professionally in Europe. A lot of American players who aren't quite good enough to make the NBA get paid to play in Europe and in Asia. And not to rain on your parade, but being illiterate and not being able to read basketball play diagrams are not the same thing.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:22
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Lots of basketball players come from Eastern Europe. I think it's funnier that Avon doesn't think to look beyond some lameass JC kid who wasn't even good enough for the Terps.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:23
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escape artist posted:And not to rain on your parade, but being illiterate and not being able to read basketball play diagrams are not the same thing. Yeah. poo poo, that's what I was trying to say, but must have I phrased it badly. Obviously Prop Joe is smart and can read. That he's not a pro basketball coach isn't a personal failing, considering all the other things he can do. But the number of folks I've talked to who are shocked that Joe's fixing electronics and running complicated plans and such in later seasons, and then cite this scene as if it were proof that the show is inconsistent or something... Oy.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:54
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watt par posted:Lots of basketball players come from Eastern Europe. I think it's funnier that Avon doesn't think to look beyond some lameass JC kid who wasn't even good enough for the Terps. I'm going based on the dialogue between Avon and Joe.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:55
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escape artist posted:I'm going based on the dialogue between Avon and Joe. Oh whoops I was responding to the same person you were.
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Mar 19, 2013 01:28
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Spoilers Below posted:But the number of folks I've talked to who are shocked that Joe's fixing electronics and running complicated plans and such in later seasons, and then cite this scene as if it were proof that the show is inconsistent or something... Oy. Yeah I'm always kind of surprised by the number of people who take things at absolute face value in any show, let alone The Wire. "He said it, therefore it is! Why would he say it otherwise!?!"
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Mar 19, 2013 02:43
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I always took the illiterate thing as just a random jab, not meaning anything more. The Eastern Europe thing can be seen as hinting at Joe's connect. Remember, he's very tight with Sergei and getting Sergei to look up a local kid who's been playing Europe would be a snap. I'd never made the connection myself until Jerusalem's writeup, same as y'all.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:13
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The "Joe is illiterate" thing is totally nonsensical, since in later seasons he's shown to have read stolen legal documents to get an inside line on police investigations. It's hard to blame people though, since typical network TV has trained people to actively avoid thinking about things on anything other than a surface level to avoid falling into gaping plot holes.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:17
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Randomly Specific posted:I always took the illiterate thing as just a random jab, not meaning anything more. Exactly, it's just Avon insulting Joe, not revealing a deep, dark secret. Randomly Specific posted:The Eastern Europe thing can be seen as hinting at Joe's connect. Remember, he's very tight with Sergei and getting Sergei to look up a local kid who's been playing Europe would be a snap. I wouldn't go so far as to say he has Sergei scouting for him, but more that we're introduced to the concept early on that Joe is a guy who casts his net wide, who doesn't look only to his own backdoor. He doesn't have as limited a worldview as Avon (for whom West Side is EVERYTHING). In later seasons, Joe will comment himself about people who go "on the run" by simply moving to another part of Baltimore, because to them it's the whole world. We see this with Bodie too when he leaves Baltimore for the first time in his life and we discover he has no idea that radio stations only broadcast so far and that the entire world doesn't just wake up in the morning and listen to the same stations/watch the same tv etc as he himself does. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 03:23
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For god's sake guys. He says "You can't even read a playbook." Not "You are illiterate." A playbook is just a bunch of sketches with X's and O's. I can't even loving read it, and I've been watching basketball for 20 years. It's a jab at him pretending to be something he isn't. An NBA coach. That's why it comes right after "You're out here dressed like Pat Riley and it's 85 degrees." Pat Riley was a highly successful NBA coach.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:27
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I wasn't saying Sergei was scouting, just giving a call to the team or whatever, or passing a message on. Joe actually has some small reach in Europe, by means of the Greek and his close connection with Sergei and Spiro. Also: was Avon's comment a way of mocking Joe's deeply secret dyslexia? Is that what Simon was saying here? Was it because Joe can only read Chinese? WHAT'S THE MEANING OF THIS SINGLE LINE SPOKEN IN THE HEAT OF A GAME?
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Mar 19, 2013 03:31
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escape artist posted:For god's sake guys. To be fair, pretty much every single post is people pointing out how silly it is that there are people (as suggested by Spoilers Below's post) who have watched that scene and taken from it that Joe is illiterate.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:32
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair, pretty much every single post is people pointing out how silly it is that there are people (as suggested by Spoilers Below's post) who have watched that scene and taken from it that Joe is illiterate. It would seem that some people are unaware of the quaint tradition in competitive sports in which one belittles one's opposition, often via derogatory comments.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:34
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair, pretty much every single post is people pointing out how silly it is that there are people (as suggested by Spoilers Below's post) who have watched that scene and taken from it that Joe is illiterate. People are hearing the wrong thing though, still. "You can't read a playbook" is not the same as "You can't read any book." You all were agreeing but you were missing out on what Avon was actually saying. He's likely right, Joe probably doesn't know how to read a playbook. I cannot read a playbook. Avon was taking a jab. But it was right. Randomly Specific posted:I always took the illiterate thing as just a random jab, not meaning anything more. I think it's a huge reach. I still don't make the connection despite the write-up.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:35
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escape artist posted:People are hearing the wrong thing though, still. "You can't read a playbook" is not the same as "You can't read any book." You all were agreeing but you were missing out on what Avon was actually saying. He's likely right, Joe probably doesn't know how to read a playbook. Yeah but regardless of what is actually said in the scene, the point is that there are people (apparently) who take it to mean Joe is illiterate, and everybody was posting to say how silly that is. escape artist posted:I think it's a huge reach. I still don't make the connection despite the write-up. Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest in my write-up that Joe's later revealed connection to the Greek meant this was how he was finding basketball players. It's more that he has a wider range of vision and picked up a guy outside of the normal scouting areas of the likes of Avon. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 03:38
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escape artist posted:For god's sake guys. He says "You can't even read a playbook." Not "You are illiterate." A playbook is just a bunch of sketches with X's and O's. I can't even loving read it, and I've been watching basketball for 20 years. Speaking of "poo poo people said", doesn't Prop Joe say something along the lines of "he's Baltimore born and raised, he's home now" in relation to the ringer from Europe? As has been said a few times, it's a massive stretch to assume this has any bearing on the Greek and is done more to show just how seriously they take the game whilst also showing that Prop Joe has a bigger resource pool due to having a broader scope. It could just as easily be that the player still has connections in Baltimore who suggested the idea to Joe. I know it's The Wire and "all the pieces matter" but I think in this case we're reading far too much into Prop Joe (allegedly) not being able to read a playbook and a ringer coming in from Europe.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:54
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Redundant posted:I can't remember exactly, but I think right after he says "you can't even read a playbook" he says something along the lines of "be for real" and at some point Prop Joe says "look the part, be the part". It's not an illiterate thing, just Avon taking shots at Joe. Well, not being able to read a playbook is no big deal. I can read Shakespeare and do calculus, but I can't read a playbook, even though I love basketball. poo poo I was watching two basketball games at once when I typed that post. (one on my TV and one on the computer) And yeah, the guy was born in Baltimore, graduated college, played overseas professionally (seriously-- if you don't know about professional basketball... this is EXTREMELY common) and was back home at that point in his life.
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Mar 19, 2013 04:06
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escape artist posted:Well, not being able to read a playbook is no big deal. I can read Shakespeare and do calculus, but I can't read a playbook, even though I love basketball. poo poo I was watching two basketball games at once when I typed that post. (one on my TV and one on the computer)
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Mar 19, 2013 04:16
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Wow, there are people who thought Joe was illiterate or that Avon thought Joe was illiterate? Anyone who thinks that is more illiterate than Joe. How is it not obvious that it's just Avon poo poo-talking. They were cheering for opposite teams, and he decided to talking poo poo, how could that not be clear?
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Mar 19, 2013 04:34
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The Rooster posted:Wow, there are people who thought Joe was illiterate or that Avon thought Joe was illiterate? Anyone who thinks that is more illiterate than Joe. How is it not obvious that it's just Avon poo poo-talking. They were cheering for opposite teams, and he decided to talking poo poo, how could that not be clear? I'm going to err on the side of "Jesus, I hope this is the case" and say that people just didn't know that a playbook consists of diagrams, and rather, thought it consisted of words. Not all Wire fans are sports fans. Also, some people might not have English as their first language, so they heard "You can't read a ????book." escape artist fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 05:13
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Well drat, I wasn't expecting to start all that. I've just got dumb friends and shouldn't bother reading other TV discussion forums, I guess. Moving on, I like how this episode continually reinforces Avon as someone who almost pathological about being in control. Be it the roles people are playing, the way people should act, or even how the cops can pursue him. That taunting finger wag he gives Daniels as he drives by says it all. Contrast that with the dressing down he gives the Ref about not doing his job properly. Hell, right at the end, he's telling Orlando how to count money ("Get my $50s with my $50s, my $20s with my $20s") It's his game they're playing, and everyone's going to play it his way, which helps lead to the break between him and Stringer in seasons 2 and 3. Which makes Omar's attack at the end all the more awful for him. His own obsession with safety (using the payphones rather than the one in the bar) has set him up to get killed. As Jerusalem notes, he only survives by sheer luck. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Compare and contrast with Marlo, who does many of the same things, albeit in a more blood thirsty fashion, and who doesn't have a Stringer Bell for a sounding board and foil. Other than when he steals some suckers from the convenience store, do we ever see him outside without Chris and Snoop to watch his back (while they're still around, I mean)? Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 06:35
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escape artist posted:I'm going to err on the side of "Jesus, I hope this is the case" and say that people just didn't know that a playbook consists of diagrams, and rather, thought it consisted of words. Not all Wire fans are sports fans. Also, some people might not have English as their first language, so they heard "You can't read a ????book." Well as a non-American I often have to relisten to the dialogue of the street characters, the slang + the accent is very alien and it can be pretty easy to misunderstand things. I find Stringer, Bubbles and Poot to be particularly difficult, Stringer mumbles a shitload. But I still got that Avon was telling him that he couldnt read between the lines of his playbook.
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Mar 19, 2013 12:12
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I love the "Vintage" tag I chose for this thread, because the show only ended 5 years ago... but it really does age like a nice wine. Also, Jerusalem, I went to the doctor today and got some medication to help with my pain and mobility. So if you want to swap episodes, we can do that. I know you probably want to do the next episode, as it's a great one, and you've earned it, pardna. 
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Mar 19, 2013 22:25
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Jerusalem posted:Omar arrives at what appears to be a warehouse office shadowed by one of Prop Joe's Muscle. Prop Joe himself is sitting at a desk flanked by more muscle, and Omar drops the garbage sack worth of stash onto the desk. Joe is delighted to see the drugs are Avon's, more because it tickles him pink that Omar has Avon's entire organization hunting him and still had time to rip him off again. So what does Omar want for the drugs? Nothing at all, it's free, a price that startles Joe. All that Omar wants is a way to get in touch with Avon, and he figures that Joe is one of the few people outside of Avon's inner circle who can do that. Joe admits this is true, they've been known to talk from time to time, he pages him. Omar says he can make that work, all he needs is Avon's number and a way to make him think he's receiving a call from one of his own. Joe can handle that too, Wee-Bey uses an 07 at the end of his calls to let people know it is him calling.... but why should he? Why not just take these drugs and have his Muscle kill Omar right here and now? Omar isn't concerned, knowing that Joe is a long-term thinker, and that if Avon goes then the entire West Side is opened up again. Joe goes back over the facts - Avon owes him 100k on the basketball game, Joe now has some of his drugs for free AND has the chance to set Omar's "predatory rear end" on Avon. He grins, today just isn't Avon's day, and Omar lets his pleasure/relief wash over him - Joe is going to play ball. OK so this scene bugs me. We are told repeatedly by the police and shown in Avon's scenes that never in a million years would he touch drugs. He probably wouldn't even be in the same room or even building with them. So why is Prop Joe just fine handling 4G packs here? Why is our long term thinker not even the slightest concerned that this trivial amount, as we've just learned how much a high up drug dealer makes, could put him away for years? Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 22:34
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I'm happy to trade off if you're feeling back up to it, I'll have the next one up sometime tomorrow if you want to start prepping for the (AMAZING) episode that follows that one. Glad you are feeling better 
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Mar 19, 2013 22:35
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Jerusalem posted:I'm happy to trade off if you're feeling back up to it, I'll have the next one up sometime tomorrow if you want to start prepping for the (AMAZING) episode that follows that one. Thanks, and sounds good. Also, I updated the OP with links to all of your reviews! So it's caught up.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:38
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Orange Devil posted:OK so this scene bugs me. We are told repeatedly by the police and shown in Avon's scene's that never in a million years would he touch drugs. He probably wouldn't even be in the same room or even building with them. So why is Prop Joe just fine handling 4G packs here? Why is our long term thinker not even the slightest concerned that this trivial amount, as we've just learned how much a high up drug dealer makes, could put him away for years? Joe - at this point - has absolutely no reason to believe that Omar would be working with the police, or that he would try and pull a set-up on him like this. It probably helps that this is Joe's first appearance and they hadn't quite nailed his character down yet.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:39
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Jerusalem posted:Joe - at this point - has absolutely no reason to believe that Omar would be working with the police, or that he would try and pull a set-up on him like this. It probably helps that this is Joe's first appearance and they hadn't quite nailed his character down yet. Avon nor Stringer are doing any dealing with people involved with the police either, yet they'd never in a million years handle drugs from anyone no matter how much they trust them, just to be safe. A scene with either of them handling drugs like Prop Joe does in this episode would be unbelievable. I can see "haven't figured out the character yet", but it's still interesting to note that this is thus a highly atypical situation.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:50
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Joe is also much older then Avon and there are times when Avon's skittishness seems outright paranoid and inexperienced. Prop Joe has learned not to worry about things like this and has good, solid systems developed for avoiding exposing himself legally that he has a great deal of confidence in. If the police had tailed Joe home from the basketball game instead of Avon, I imagine Joe would have let them. I'm a local electronics repair retailer, what do I have to hide? Let them follow. EDIT: I just remembered that Prop extensively uses Levy's mole at the justice department, something that Stringer is never seen doing. He would know about any wiretaps or surveillance before it even happened. Prop Joe is much more entrenched in the system then Avon is with better connections, he has no need to be paranoid. hiddenmovement fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 22:52
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Did Prop Joe ever drop bodies?
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Mar 19, 2013 23:03
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chesh posted:Did Prop Joe ever drop bodies? Nope, wasn't his MO. Didn't really fit Eastside anyway, I figure dealers got way better along there. Westside always had one hungry king in the show while the rest of the co-op seemed to be all Eastsiders.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:07
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Don't forget that prop Joe has a court officer on the take/blackmail. He's probably much more confident in knowing that hell get sufficient warning to change up his operation when a police investigation hits anything resembling serious (warrants, wiretaps, court orders, etc). If the detail had initially gone up against Joe they would've had a much harder time of it (assuming they thought up that plot point that far in advance. Also, I get the impression from what Cheese says to Bodie in S2 (That a west side dealer can make a deal without shoving a gun in a fiends face) that East side dealers are not as violent as the West side and that they generally drop less bodies too, which is what got the police interested in Avon's crew in the first place (well that and Jimmy being Jimmy and having two show everyone what a loving genius he is).
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Mar 19, 2013 23:16
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chesh posted:Did Prop Joe ever drop bodies? I was just about to bring this point up.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:17
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