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whydirt posted:Do you have a link to the post? First came up WAAAAY back here, 10 months ago: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29165485/Favored_Enemy:_I_hope_this_isnt_applied_to_every_enemy.?post_num=4#520572495 - then it was developed into a full-fledged proposal later on which I can't lay hands on.
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Mar 20, 2013 19:41
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I haven't been following the playtests that strictly but one of the things I don't remember about is referencing specific settings like Eberron. Did they do that in previous playtest packets? EDIT: Ooo yeah. New playtest packet is out. EDIT: Major problem with the fighter is that while its getting more interesting as pointed out earlier they swung too wildly in the opposite way in how to recharge the martial dice. EDIT: Paladin seems widlly incomplete at this point with two of the lawful good build only being a complete build. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 23:28
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Oh hey a Next podcast that has actual interesting ideas and doesn't completely suck like the last few. If they just kept moving in this direction and brought the 4e Warlord in full sale (with obvious changes to work with the new rules) I might actually be sold.
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Mar 20, 2013 23:33
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New packet is out, though the download page hasn't updated the date. Each race gets +1 to two stats now, except humans who still get +1 to all of them. At least humans aren't getting +2 to any one.
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Mar 20, 2013 23:42
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Having a quick readthrough of the new packet, and the fighter's Deadly Strike ability (gained at level 5) looks hilariously overpowered. Once per turn - so basically every attack unless you're using Multiattack (also gained at L5) - you get to roll your weapon's damage twice and add them together? Greatswords all round, then! The excellent Stormchaser cleric divine power of Wrath has gone from 2d10 to 3d10 extra damage on a successful hit. At first level.  All clerics now get Turn/Rebuke Undead automatically as a divine power, which they didn't before.Looks like Paladins are going to be the low-level healbots with the Lay On Hands channel divinity: 15hp to parcel out however you choose. Rangers' Camouflage class ability effectively turns them into Solid Snake. Shame it only works in natural environments; covering yourself in stone dust and drawing mortar lines across your body so you vanish every time you press against a wall would be hilarious. Lots of feats are still written as if the game is using a mandatory 5' grid, as are monster abilities like  EDIT: the skill system looks better, as you can now add new skills as you go up in level rather than just increasing your skill die (it's now either/or). And goodbye to Use Rope! Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 00:38
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I haven't got the new playtest email. Anything I need to do? I didn't read the last one very closely, and I never got a survey either. Payndz posted:goodbye to Use Rope! The best change. I'm only sort of kidding, since it was a weirdly specific skill, and removing it shows that they're at least thinking about stuff.
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Mar 21, 2013 01:11
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AlphaDog posted:I haven't got the new playtest email. Anything I need to do? I didn't read the last one very closely, and I never got a survey either. The emails come out infrequently, or sometimes not at all. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to it, I think they are just legit bad at maintaining a mailing list. Just go over to the site and download it, it is what I do. In like two weeks you will get an email.
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Mar 21, 2013 01:12
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They really need to get rid of all the drat 3.xisms still like Save-or-Screweds and then spells specifically made to counter them (like Freedom of Movement), when has that ever been good game design? The answer is never, if anyone was wondering.
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Mar 21, 2013 01:29
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I've been excitedly waiting for the exploration rules for awhile now. And I'm not being sarcastic here, this Monday was probably the most excited I will ever be for DnD Next. So how about I do a quick overview of what the exploration rules look like? The exploration rules divide play into three 'zoom levels' daily travel (which assumes that a party travels for 10 hours a day), hourly travel, and 5 minute travel (for dungeon exploration). After each turn is taken the DM rolls on a table based on the population density of the area to determine whether there is a random encounter. This means that the closer the zoom the more dangerous the location (assuming that most random encounters are dangerous) making 'medium' zoom 100 times more dangerous than regular wilderness travel, and dungeon exploration between 9000 and 16000 times more dangerous. (That must be why they pay adventurers the big bucks.) So, notably the medium zoom is clearly intended for very hazardous outdoor locations. Also the wide discrepancy between the danger of dungeon crawling is based on the fact that moving quicker reduces the chance of encounters, but also partially on the fact that English units suck. The party is also able to choose how quickly they want to travel through the area, and each party member can choose to take on roles such as scouting, mapping, or searching the area. Each of these roles is governed mainly by wisdom checks and the faster the party travels the more difficult the roles are to accomplish with roles being disallowed at high speeds and gaining advantage at very low speeds. One consequence of that is that you can easily always get advantage on search checks in dungeons, but the penalty is that you are implicitly reminding the DM to make random encounter checks. At first I thought it was odd that one of the major activities a party might want to participate in, hunting, was not on the role list. But then I quickly checked the class list and discovered that only deckers are allowed to use the hacking rules. Sorry, I meant only rangers are allowed to use the hunting rules. Which seems to be a tradition safe, but somewhat terrible move on the part of the designers. The final section of the exploration rules discusses adjudicating action results in 'exploration mode'. This includes a nice chunk of text on determining surprise/encounter distance in overland encounters. This is followed bu a single sentence about what I consider to be the most interesting part of wilderness travel, discovering hidden objects and locations, which I would paraphrase as "Roleplay it, bitches." Finally there is an additional half page on what I consider to be the least interesting part of wilderness travel, determining what to do when the party gets lost. I found it odd that this wasn't obviated into a "This is how much time you just wasted" roll in a game that has cut the length of combat by a factor of ten in order to get to the "fun parts". In conclusion, like much of DnD Next, the exploration rules seem to me to involve a couple of mildly interesting ideas mired in a mechanical mess. Oh, that's a spergy post. If I knew anything about cooking I would try to make it up to you guys. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 02:09
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Do they still have the bizarre double-up skills "Hide", "Move Silently", "Don't Step on Twigs" and "Remember Not To Knock Things Over" so you can roll four times to accomplish a single thing?
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Mar 21, 2013 02:11
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That all appears to be handled under "Sneak." Some of the other skill names, however, are astoundingly stupid. "Break an Object" and "Conceal an Object" are by far the worst offenders, but hopefully they're just placeholders for real names.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:29
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Those sound like HoL skills. "Break an Object...just ONE object though. You have to choose which object at character creation. But boy, you can break the poo poo out of that one thing."
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Mar 21, 2013 02:33
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Hmm some things I like, and I would definitely like to playtest some of the classes if anyone ran a PbP game. Other things I am less than thrilled with. Biggest think I have disliked so far, other than alignment restrictions coming up in Paladin subclasses, is the loss of Monk maneuvers, including Flurry of Blows and other rather flavorful and fun options.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:43
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PantsOptional posted:That all appears to be handled under "Sneak." Some of the other skill names, however, are astoundingly stupid. "Break an Object" and "Conceal an Object" are by far the worst offenders, but hopefully they're just placeholders for real names. But hey, Use Rope is gone! 
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Mar 21, 2013 04:27
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There must be a story as to why use rope was so bad? It never seemed like a big deal either way in 2e. edit: We assumed it was like "rope pro" not just "can hold a rope". Like lassoing or rigging, etc...
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Mar 21, 2013 04:55
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FRINGE posted:There must be a story as to why use rope was so bad? It never seemed like a big deal either way in 2e. Perception is once again three separate skills, but hey, only one stealth skill now.
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Mar 21, 2013 05:19
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FRINGE posted:There must be a story as to why use rope was so bad? It never seemed like a big deal either way in 2e. It was probably the best example of "poo poo everyone should know." Use Rope before NWPs was rather simplistically a thing you knew because you were a goddamn adventurer. And even in NWPs, using rope was next to things like "know constellations" or "identify heraldric symbols." In 3.x, however, you had Use Rope next to Be Able To Use Any Magical Item or See Things or Lie. It is in other words super, super niche, in a skill system that was intended to be very broad.
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Mar 21, 2013 05:28
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FRINGE posted:There must be a story as to why use rope was so bad? It never seemed like a big deal either way in 2e. One of the problems I always had with it (apart from some of the weird broken poo poo you read about in 3e), is that "rope use" should fall under multiple other skills. Have you got Trapping or Survival? Sailing? Fishing? Is your secondary skill "farmer"? Do you have Animal Handling? What about Riding? All these loving things require some use of ropes and knots. It being a separate skill implies that there's enough to just "rope use" that it stands alone as a skill, where really it's something you pick up as part of another skill (good luck sailing, fishing, setting snares, or hitching up oxen if you can't tie knots), or as a weapon proficiency (lasso). I mean, you can learn to tie some fancy knots in a couple of minutes, and in a day of practicing you can learn to do them behind your back, and also have learned to tie a load down properly, lash stuff together, splice two different sized ropes, etc. It's not hard enough compared to "knows the secrets of the outer planes" or "plays an instrument" or "rides a horse" that it requires it's own unique skill.
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Mar 21, 2013 05:29
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How does anyone come up with the skill Break an Object and think they did a good job? Like, how is this seriously a thing someone thought was worth adding to D&D? Who teaches someone how to break objects? Is there a special object breaking college somewhere, lead by the wise masters of object breaking?
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Mar 21, 2013 05:53
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I've got the AD&D Dungeoneer's Survival Guide right here, and it actually details Rope Use as an NWP! What did that get you in 1986?quote:Rope Use: This proficiency allows a character to accomplish amazing feats with rope. A character with rope use proficiency is familiar with all sorts of knots and can tie knots that slip, hold tightly, slide slowly, or loosen with a quick tug. If the character's hands are bound and held with a knot, he can make a Proficiency Check (with a -6 penalty) to escape the bonds. And that's not competing with fighting competency or anything. Also, looking at the list of NWPs, Rangers should totally get Animal Noise in Next quote:Animal Noise: A character with this proficiency is capable of imitating the noises made by various animals. A successful Proficiency Check means that only magical means can distinguish the noise from that of the actual animal being imitated. A failed die roll means that the sound varies from the correct noise in some slight way. I think that's actually neat! EDIT: Reading over some of the other proficiencies, Rope Use actually sounds like one of the most useful ones. Did Use Rope get in as a skill because of nostalgia and fond AD&D memories? PublicOpinion fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 05:54
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PublicOpinion posted:Did Use Rope get in as a skill because of nostalgia The answer to this question any time it suggests itself in the context of "why did they do a thing in D&D" is probably "yes."
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Mar 21, 2013 06:14
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CaptCommy posted:How does anyone come up with the skill Break an Object and think they did a good job? Like, how is this seriously a thing someone thought was worth adding to D&D? Who teaches someone how to break objects? Is there a special object breaking college somewhere, lead by the wise masters of object breaking? The answer to this question and many other questions about DnD Next design is "tradition". Break an Object is almost certainly a callback to the original fighting man ability Bend/Break Bars.
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Mar 21, 2013 06:15
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I kind of want to see a game that does their skill list up like that now. Break an Object Kill a Guy Steal a Thing Know About a Subject Hunt an Animal Sneak By a Person
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Mar 21, 2013 06:31
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If you replace "skill" with "move", that is basically Dungeon World.
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Mar 21, 2013 06:33
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From what I've read so far, they're taking baby steps in a less terrible direction, this packet. Still not great, but some stuff - like the exploration rules - shows signs of innovation. With, of course, mechanical issues. If nothing else, I outright hate fewer things this time around.
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Mar 21, 2013 06:43
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FRINGE posted:There must be a story as to why use rope was so bad? It never seemed like a big deal either way in 2e. I was playing 3.5 last weekend and actually had to make a Use Rope check to throw a grappling hook. Every increment that you beat the DC was how many feet the drat thing would go. Why it wasn't a strength check to throw a heavy object I have no idea, but this was actually in the rules.
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Mar 21, 2013 07:40
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And the Defender mechanics still require a shield and still require you to be immediately adjacent to your enemy. That's one little change that grogs probably wouldn't even notice, but nope. Still gotta make playing a Defender borderline useless.
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Mar 21, 2013 08:05
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ProfessorCirno posted:It was probably the best example of "poo poo everyone should know." We tended to use "actual" rope use skill as the thing to check for things like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0KZKADMTY or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLcVVdqN11I or setting up complicated things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4AkA2hu_Tg or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAU9UkGhH40 ... depending on what applied to the character. Did anyone really make people use it to "tie a knot"? edit: ritorix posted:I was playing 3.5 last weekend and actually had to make a Use Rope check to throw a grappling hook. Every increment that you beat the DC was how many feet the drat thing would go. Why it wasn't a strength check to throw a heavy object I have no idea, but this was actually in the rules. 
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Mar 21, 2013 08:19
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I dunno if this was in the last playtest packet or what, but the second I saw the Magic Item Details charts, I printed them out and plan on using them in literally every game with a magic item ever. If it's wrong to have a magic item that makes the user feel sad, I don't want to be right.
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Mar 21, 2013 10:14
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The funny thing from the packet me and my friend brewed up is with a polearm you can make a build that: Moves away from an enemy (possibly taunting them so they are forced to follow you) ((Yeah mind control taunts are in)) Then when they move next you make an attack against them And if they miss you (which you should focus on getting the AC for) attack them again with advantage Bonus points if you have another dude with a shield next to you to help by constantly giving enemies disadvantage on attack rolls (or to be the the one taunting them)
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Mar 21, 2013 14:46
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They should experiment with expanding the available spells per-school/domain but making narrow limits as to how many schools/domains a wizard/cleric can have. If you're a Priest of Storms or a Wizard of Enchantment you should be really good within your bailiwick but theres no reason you also know how to create zombie armies and open locked doors. If I am getting the complaints of the too-mighty 3e wizards right then cutting their spell selection/school types by about 2/3ds and increasing the flavors available within the schools should help that. Sure the lightning guy is a terror to fight in a well lit hallway but he sucks at finding hidden assassins, etc... I guess it would be kind of complicated though. If fighters got all the things I would like to see (which I know some people would hate, since I like simulation flavored stuff), rogues got a similar treatment, and clerics and wizards received highly detailed schools/domains it would probably be a set of four books just filling out the classes. Not good for new players. Might be good for some kind of second tier material like an evolved/streamlined "Complete Book of" line. I'm tiredposting. I think I just convinced myself to redo Wizards within a 2e style ruleset if I run another game. 
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Mar 21, 2013 15:22
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D&D magic's unique feature (besides the fire-and-forget setup) is that it has no unique features and is entirely bland. What's more, people will rush to defend this arrangement. A big part of balancing D&D would necessarily involve making spellcasters into specialists, but the resistance to this is considerable.
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Mar 21, 2013 15:46
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I'd like to point out that the secret to really good eggs is dill. A pinch for something like an omelet, but for scrambled just let fly. Oh, and garlic, but you knew that already.
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Mar 21, 2013 15:56
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Weirdly enough that's also the secret to balancing casters.
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Mar 21, 2013 16:38
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Thank Gary they finally fixed Fighters in the new playtest. Martial dice now only refresh after a short rest. e: Open Lock and Pick Pockets are now feats. Pick Pockets doesn't give you a bonus to Dexterity Checks for picking a pocket. It doesn't give you a bonus to skill checks for concealing an object as you pick it. It lets you use your Conceal Object skill to attempt to pick a pocket. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:09
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Requiring feats to do things with skills and abilities--things that you'd expect to be able to do anyway--is a weirdly specific-to-3e design element that's likely to piss off fans of multiple other editions. They also really haven't fixed fighters until they change it so that you don't have to have a feat just to attempt certain combat maneuvers.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:45
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There's a 6th level feat that lets you charm people if you succeed while rolling to persuade, so you can get 20 Charisma, be a Rake rogue, then take skill focus and supremacy for 1d20+5+1d12+1d6, always rolling with advantage and no disadvantage. Most things don't have a wisdom modifier higher than +2 or +3 for the opposed check. The only things you can't befriend are Elves, Mane demons, Lemures, Doppelgangers, Dracoliches, Ghosts, Ghouls, Golems, Liches, Mummies, Skeletons, Vampires, and Wraiths. Oddly enough, Wights and Zombies can be charmed. Once charmed, it lasts for an hour, and being charmed grants you advantage on social rolls, including those made to charm them again, extending the clock. If you/your companions are hostile toward the target in word or deed, the charm ends immediately and the target is immune for 24 hours, but there's nothing otherwise stopping you from trying again, or murdering something until it's charmed. Befriend the poo poo out of almost everyone.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:59
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LightWarden posted:There's a 6th level feat that lets you charm people if you succeed while rolling to persuade, so you can get 20 Charisma, be a Rake rogue, then take skill focus and supremacy for 1d20+5+1d12+1d6, always rolling with advantage and no disadvantage. Most things don't have a wisdom modifier higher than +2 or +3 for the opposed check. The only things you can't befriend are Elves, Mane demons, Lemures, Doppelgangers, Dracoliches, Ghosts, Ghouls, Golems, Liches, Mummies, Skeletons, Vampires, and Wraiths. Oddly enough, Wights and Zombies can be charmed. Once charmed, it lasts for an hour, and being charmed grants you advantage on social rolls, including those made to charm them again, extending the clock. If you/your companions are hostile toward the target in word or deed, the charm ends immediately and the target is immune for 24 hours, but there's nothing otherwise stopping you from trying again, or murdering something until it's charmed. D&D: Friendship is
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Mar 21, 2013 19:07
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LightWarden posted:There's a 6th level feat that lets you charm people if you succeed while rolling to persuade, so you can get 20 Charisma, be a Rake rogue, then take skill focus and supremacy for 1d20+5+1d12+1d6, always rolling with advantage and no disadvantage. Most things don't have a wisdom modifier higher than +2 or +3 for the opposed check. The only things you can't befriend are Elves, Mane demons, Lemures, Doppelgangers, Dracoliches, Ghosts, Ghouls, Golems, Liches, Mummies, Skeletons, Vampires, and Wraiths. Oddly enough, Wights and Zombies can be charmed. Once charmed, it lasts for an hour, and being charmed grants you advantage on social rolls, including those made to charm them again, extending the clock. If you/your companions are hostile toward the target in word or deed, the charm ends immediately and the target is immune for 24 hours, but there's nothing otherwise stopping you from trying again, or murdering something until it's charmed. I am Gentaro Kisaragi! I'm the rouge that will befriend everyone!
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Mar 21, 2013 19:36
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| # ? May 12, 2024 03:39 |
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LightWarden posted:There's a 6th level feat that lets you charm people if you succeed while rolling to persuade, so you can get 20 Charisma, be a Rake rogue, then take skill focus and supremacy for 1d20+5+1d12+1d6, always rolling with advantage and no disadvantage. Most things don't have a wisdom modifier higher than +2 or +3 for the opposed check. The only things you can't befriend are Elves, Mane demons, Lemures, Doppelgangers, Dracoliches, Ghosts, Ghouls, Golems, Liches, Mummies, Skeletons, Vampires, and Wraiths. Oddly enough, Wights and Zombies can be charmed. Once charmed, it lasts for an hour, and being charmed grants you advantage on social rolls, including those made to charm them again, extending the clock. If you/your companions are hostile toward the target in word or deed, the charm ends immediately and the target is immune for 24 hours, but there's nothing otherwise stopping you from trying again, or murdering something until it's charmed.
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Mar 21, 2013 20:17
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