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Way of the Adept: Unofficial Errata It doesn't seem to have changed in the last year since I found it. The comment about wanting the qualities to be free, but having playtesters tell him no, is at the end of his answer to 'Wait, do you have to be an Adept to take a Way from Way of the Adept?' The fact that it was playtesters, not some editor from on high, who called him on how ridiculous it sounded, makes me rather happy. Fake edit: He also explains what he means by "rounding as normal" in that passage. It only made less sense to me after I read it.
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Mar 20, 2013 17:36
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Martello posted:Mordaedil, I sent you a PM but I have another recommendation - download and use Chummer, not just you but everyone in the game. It will make life easier for you and all your players. Is Chummer better/worse/equivalent to the corresponding modules in Herolab?
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Mar 20, 2013 17:40
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AlternateAccount posted:Is Chummer better/worse/equivalent to the corresponding modules in Herolab? It's free-er.
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Mar 20, 2013 18:27
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I think melee combat should be weak. After all, this is a game set in the late 21st century and guns rightfully reign supreme. Playing as a successful melee character should be difficult and sometimes almost implausible, which makes the rewards that much greater. Alternatively, playing as a melee character is loving stupid and if they get their rear end shot up on a regular basis they should go loving figure and maybe learn to use a gun. The reason a melee action is always a complex action is because it takes longer to use your whole body to punch/kick/grab/whatever someone than it does to pull a trigger. One thing that might help even it out a bit is if the gunslinger has to take a Simple Action to Take Aim every time he engages a new target without getting the normal Take Aim bonus. That way, after he perforates the elf gunman across the room the first round, he has to take a Simple Action to swivel and acquire the ork adept charging in from his right. He can shoot the adept once before the guy closes the distance. As far as adepts are concerned, I haven't seen them to be weak at all. Maybe I was playing him wrong, but I had a Warrior Adept allied NPC helping my PCs in a campaign I ran last year, and that motherfucker was destructive. With 4 IPs and 10P damage on his unarmed strikes, it didn't really matter that each strike was a Complex Action because he was able to deal so much damage with each. He Great Leaped into the second floor of a drug house and killed pretty much everyone before the PCs could get up there. I probably should have held back a little but whatever. It was too cool to have him throw the main antagonist of the run out the second-floor window and have him land in the courtyard in a pulp while the runners prepare to clear the first floor. I made the same mistake PunkBoy did and discounted all of his Warrior Adept powers. Whatever, I guess. pre:== Attributes == BOD: 5 AGI: 5 REA: 5 (8) STR: 3 CHA: 4 INT: 3 LOG: 3 WIL: 4 EDG: 3 MAG: 6 == Derived Attributes == Essence: 6 Initiative: 8 (11) IP: 1 (4) Astral Initiative: 6 Astral IP: 3 Matrix Initiative: 3 Matrix IP: 1 Physical Damage Track: 11 Stun Damage Track: 10 == Active Skills == Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 2 Animal Training : 0 Pool: 2 Archery : 0 Pool: 4 Armorer : 0 Pool: 2 Artisan : 0 Pool: 2 Astral Combat : 3 Pool: 7 Automatics : 0 Pool: 4 Blades : 6 Pool: 11 Climbing : 4 Pool: 7 Clubs : 0 Pool: 4 Computer : 0 Pool: 2 Con : 4 Pool: 8 Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 2 Data Search : 0 Pool: 2 Demolitions : 0 Pool: 2 Disguise : 2 Pool: 5 Diving : 0 Pool: 4 Dodge : 6 Pool: 14 Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 4 Etiquette : 4 Pool: 8 First Aid : 0 Pool: 2 Flight : 4 Pool: 7 Forgery : 0 Pool: 4 Gunnery : 0 Pool: 4 Gymnastics : 4 Pool: 9 Hacking : 0 Pool: 2 Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 4 Infiltration : 2 Pool: 7 Instruction : 0 Pool: 3 Intimidation : 2 Pool: 6 Leadership : 4 Pool: 8 Locksmith : 0 Pool: 4 Longarms : 0 Pool: 4 Navigation : 0 Pool: 2 Negotiation : 4 Pool: 8 Palming : 2 Pool: 7 Parachuting : 0 Pool: 4 Perception : 2 Pool: 5 Pilot Ground Craft : 0 Pool: 7 Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 7 Pistols : 0 Pool: 4 Riding : 0 Pool: 7 Running : 4 Pool: 7 Shadowing : 2 Pool: 5 Survival : 0 Pool: 3 Swimming : 4 Pool: 7 Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 4 Tracking : 2 Pool: 5 Unarmed Combat : 6 [Martial Arts] Pool: 12 (14) == Qualities == Addiction (Moderate) (Cram) Adept Bicardiac Day Job (40 hrs/week) Dependent (Demanding) Fame (Local) First Impression Geas (Must have performed a Santeria ritual 24 hours before using any Adept Power) Gremlins (Rating 3) Low-Light Vision SINner (Criminal) (Cesar Ramirez) The Warrior's Way Vomeronasal Organ == Powers == Astral Perception Combat Sense Rating: 1 Counterstrike Rating: 1 Critical Strike Rating: 5 Great Leap Rating: 1 Improved Ability (Combat) (Unarmed Combat) Rating: 1 Improved Reflexes 3 Killing Hands Penetrating Strike Rating: 2 Swift and Terrible Rating: 1 Wall Running == Martial Arts == Kickboxing ++1 DV on Unarmed Combat attacks Clinch Disarm Ground Fighting Kick Attack
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Mar 20, 2013 18:42
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Martello posted:
Even using Warrior Adept discount on all his powers you've spent 8.56 points of adept powers. Also that guy only does 8P -2AP damage by my calculation. Also you could get an SMG and do a pair of called shot for damage and then a short burst for bursts for 10P/8P -1AP with the same/higher dice pool and fewer points spent. Also gently caress you it's Shadowrun, cutting dudes in half with your monokatana should totally be just as good as shooting it up. Piell fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 19:06
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Piell posted:Even using Warrior Adept discount on all his powers you've spent 8.56 points of adept powers. Also that guy only does 8P -2AP damage by my calculation. Also you could get an SMG and do a pair of called shot for damage and then a short burst for bursts for 10P/8P -1AP with the same/higher dice pool and fewer points spent. The values are all straight out of Chummer; I also discounted everything by using a Geas. Dunno if I did that right either, but he's a Prime Runner so it's not like it really matters. And yeah, an SMG is still better than unarmed with Killing Hands. That's kinda the point of my last post, unarmed shouldn't be as good as guns since, y'know, guns are loving GUNS. I don't agree but it's a personal opinion thing, I guess. Cutting dudes in half with your monosword should be awesome but only in certain situations, like when you drop from the ceiling on unsuspecting corpsec goons or jump a dude in a bar or come outta an alley behind some Lone Star officers and so on. But if you're a close-combat dude and you have to cover significant ground between you and your gun-wielding target then you should probably take a lot of damage if not die before you can get there. Personally, I like to have a modicum of realism for combat. I know, it's a world of magic and implausible cybertech and orks and blah blah, but it's like wanting a zombie film to have realistic weapon use. Talking about the Predator looking like an Auto 9 has inspired me to build a RoboCop character in Chummer. 
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Mar 20, 2013 19:20
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Some time ago I put together a moronic orc drake kickboxer adept build for the heck of it and it did 13S damage in regular form and 16P in drake form (or 18 if you for some bizarre reason would argue that a drake could kickbox) with 4 initiative passes. Just don't ask if the character was good at anything else, at all. Also since my group allows people to grab initiation ranks at character creation it should just be 12S and 15P. 
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Mar 20, 2013 19:41
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Martello posted:And yeah, an SMG is still better than unarmed with Killing Hands. That's kinda the point of my last post, unarmed shouldn't be as good as guns since, y'know, guns are loving GUNS. If your average movie played it straight, that bare-chested punch-up between the bad guy and the good guy at the end would last one punch, whereas those mooks getting gunned down in droves with a single bullet each (or less, depending on the editing) would probably be able to keep shooting until they were themselves shot a bit more. We tend to tweak the rules so that melee generally does a whole lot more damage, but that damage is a whole lot more difficult to actually deliver — not just in terms of actually being close enough, but landing the hit even when you get there.
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Mar 20, 2013 19:56
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I'm not sure if you're saying that in real life bullets aren't as dangerous or damaging as fists, but it sounds like you might be. I sure as the gently caress hope not. Can you clarify your point a bit?
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Mar 20, 2013 20:00
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The best advantage of unarmed combat is how easy it is to use knockback. If you're fighting some Body 14 armor 28 with damage compensation and quick platelets cybertroll nightmare, fists, guns, and anti vehicular rockets are all going to do zip, but a martial artist can push that troll back several meters. I'm a fan of elevator shafts, (hacking that sucker open gives the hacker something to do if you didn't just climb up the shaft yourself) but windows, the edges of buildings, and radioactive sewage water full of devil rats are all common enough in the gleaming cities of the sixth world.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:13
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Martello posted:I'm not sure if you're saying that in real life bullets aren't as dangerous or damaging as fists, but it sounds like you might be. I sure as the gently caress hope not. Can you clarify your point a bit? Anyway, no, in SR they're not more dangerous than bullets — their lower base damage and doing stun damage takes care of that — but then you add adept powers, channelling magic to vastly improve what you can do compared to normal people to the point where you're looking at wuxia-style kung fu moves as your point of reference, including having an ability called Killing Hands(!)…. That's really something that should be pretty loving devastating to be hit by, and it should easily compete with a simple SMG at that point, and it should be so for the same reason as being hit by a classic Hellblast spell means you're having a bad day. Granted, the whole system is rather silly for both cases: an average person will not be able to deck another average person with a punch, when he really should be able to, but then again, an average person will also not be particularly hurt by your average pistol bullet either…
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Mar 20, 2013 20:37
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Dude, I've punched people and been punched many many times before, and I don't just mean during Army combatives training. Nobody I know has ever died from any of that, but I know more than one dude who died from just a couple bullets. It's "surprisingly hard" to stop someone with bullets, but that's not the same thing as killing them. A guy can take a number of bullets to the torso or whatever and not go down right away due to adrenaline and whatnot, and then bleed to death or die from shock a few minutes later. You can punch the poo poo out of a dude and he'll go down fairly quick - almost never with one punch though - and be just fine a couple days later when his aches are gone and his bruises are starting to fade. On actual Shadowrun stuff, I was just messing around with Chummer and I can't see a way to make a character into a cyborg without creating custom cyberware for the CCU. Am I just missing it somewhere?
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Mar 20, 2013 20:43
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Martello posted:Dude, I've punched people and been punched many many times before, and I don't just mean during Army combatives training. Nobody I know has ever died from any of that, but I know more than one dude who died from just a couple bullets. And my point is that SR doesn't particularly show this, and that the adept powers are building on a weakened ground that in turn makes them less frightening than they should be. That's all. …well, actually, SR3 allowed you to simulate that, but it became a bit cumbersome at that point.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:55
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Killing Hands costs something like 5BP, not including the cost to become an adept. That's like the same cost as 50 AK-97 Carbines with at least one magazine of ammo. And before someone pipes in about "they can't be taken away from you", Hand Razors cost 900 nuyen and do a point of damage higher than Killing Hands. So, yeah, there's gotta be some sort of fix for that. But, yeah, what Tippis said. Especially with edged weapons. Getting run through with a knife or a sword does significantly more tissue disruption than a bullet, even if the bullet expands or fragments. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 21:19
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I think the whole issue is being approached from the wrong direction. I mean in a game in which a cyber-troll throws fireballs while wearing sunglasses, realism shouldn't be an important design factor. "Does this encourage the behavior we want?" is probably better. Adepts are clearly not meant to be some kind of trap option with inferior utility, ergo, they should probably be much better than they are. Personally I'd like to see Adepts significantly differentiated from cyber'd melee characters. I feel like Adepts are just sort of a weird appendage designed to fill a thematic niche that shares design space with other archetypes. Give those guys some breathing room. As an aside, I'd like to see Technomancers differentiated from other hackers. I feel like 'mancers are just hackers with better tools and infinite growth, whereas mundane hackers come out of the box about 1 die away from the maximum potential.
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Mar 20, 2013 21:45
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Tripp, I think we probably are closer in viewpoints than it looks, we're just approaching from different angles. As for the realism thing in general, that's more just my pet peeve and I put more emphasis in it when I run games because I do a sort of half-Shadowrun where all the Awakening poo poo is gone and it's really just a cyberpunk game played with Shadowrun rules and gear and so on. I also agree that Technomancers should be more different from just a regular hacker. I wonder if that will change in 5th edition?
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Mar 20, 2013 21:52
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It doesn't really matter that bullets are deadlier than fists in real life, this is a game and thus character options should be balanced against each other.
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Mar 20, 2013 22:03
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Swagger Dagger posted:It doesn't really matter that bullets are deadlier than fists in real life, this is a game and thus character options should be balanced against each other. This. If it was more realistic, then no one would carry pistols since pistols have inferior range, accuracy, and muzzle energy/stopping power than longer-barreled submachineguns (and, in earlier editions, assault rifles). But Shadowrun has always made pistols far more damaging than they should be to encourage concealable pistols than long arms.
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Mar 20, 2013 22:22
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I think there's any problem with guns being more deadly than fists in the game, because that is how the setting tries to be balanced towards. I do think that sneaking up on someone, undetected, should still have a good chance of being lethal with unarmed combat though. I just think a straight-up fight between a guy with a gun and a guy with his fist, the guy with just his fist should be at a disadvantage. Unless he's using a Terminator cybernetic kit. Then the guy with the gun should surely think about investing in lasers.
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Mar 20, 2013 22:33
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Swagger Dagger posted:It doesn't really matter that bullets are deadlier than fists in real life, this is a game and thus character options should be balanced against each other. Pretty much, and that's kind of the way we've tried to house-rule it with the more-difficult/more-damaging melee. In the end, it becomes about as bad to be hit by as bullets, and then they each have their own downsides and benefits (e.g. lack of range, but silent). The game still has the classic linear-warrior/quadratic-wizard balance issue (made much worse in SR4 when everything became magical), but the GM can somewhat balance that with appropriate karma and NĄ rewards.
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Mar 20, 2013 22:47
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Mendrian posted:I think the whole issue is being approached from the wrong direction. Basically this. I think we actually had this argument in BWF not that long ago, and I agree with this assessment...if this was a GURPS: Black Ops game or something then sure, guns should reign supreme all day every day and melee should be that thing you use as a last resort or in very specific circumstances. Shadowrun is a game that sort of tries to come across as all slick cyberpunk black ops mercenaries and stuff but no, it's a crazy-rear end action movie. I don't expect guns to triumph over melee in Feng Shui because "guns are more dangerous in real life!" and I don't expect that to be the case in Shadowrun either, especially when one of the character types they've tried to shoehorn into the game is "badass magic kung fu dude." Or, I dunno, cyborg wired-up katana dude.
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Mar 21, 2013 01:12
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Martello posted:I think melee combat should be weak. quote:As far as adepts are concerned, I haven't seen them to be weak at all. Man, make up your mind. Incidentally if a game not only makes "cool martial artist" an archtype, but makes it two different archtypes, one of which outright costs you points for the ability to take it, no, it should not be weaker just because. Edit: Incidentally... Kai Tave posted:Shadowrun is a game that sort of tries to come across as all slick cyberpunk black ops mercenaries and stuff but no, it's a crazy-rear end action movie. I know Seattle is the vague "canon" place to do runs at, but has anyone played an SR game that took place in LA? From what I remember, LA running is suppose to be less professionals in black trenchcoats and mirror shades, and more Saints Row the 7th, where police video of runs in action are televised and runners are half criminal, half superstar. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 01:38
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ProfessorCirno posted:I know Seattle is the vague "canon" place to do runs at, but has anyone played an SR game that took place in LA? From what I remember, LA running is suppose to be less professionals in black trenchcoats and mirror shades, and more Saints Row the 7th, where police video of runs in action are televised and runners are half criminal, half superstar. I've heard the LA section on shadowrunning in 4E get a lot of compliments but I've not yet heard/seen anyone actually run a game set there, it seems like it would be a pretty fun sort of deal, especially for people who got upset about 4E angling things more towards the "slick professional" side of things rather than "tearing down main street in a Bulldog Step-Van which is on fire while the troll takes potshots at Lone Star with an assault cannon."
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Mar 21, 2013 02:05
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Kai Tave posted:I've heard the LA section on shadowrunning in 4E get a lot of compliments but I've not yet heard/seen anyone actually run a game set there, it seems like it would be a pretty fun sort of deal, especially for people who got upset about 4E angling things more towards the "slick professional" side of things rather than "tearing down main street in a Bulldog Step-Van which is on fire while the troll takes potshots at Lone Star with an assault cannon." Where are people getting this sort of thing from? I swear I have most of the books and I can't find a thing about this. It's especially useful for me because my players just fled the city of Seattle because they were tearing down Pike Street in a Bulldog StepVan which was under fire while the ork lobbed plastic explosive at Knight Errant, and that wasn't really conducive to staying alive. So if I could find information about LA or San Francisco (where they ran to) and not have to craft the thing from whole cloth before next Monday, that'd really help.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:13
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LA's in.. I think Corporate Enclaves. (checks) yup, Corporate Enclaves. Basically, there's a Facebook on mega-steroids thing called Persona 2.0 (usually called Pito) that everyone digs in LA. A few runner teams even get paid to have their runs broadcast over Pito (with enough of a delay to edit out any identifying logos or what have you). The top rated Pito program pits runner teams against each other, a la the Amazing Race, where the fans vote on which teams get good info, and which teams could be sent into a brutal corp ambush.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:20
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Yeah, SirFozzie has it. I'm pretty sure that all of that was entirely a 4E thing too as California was mostly wrapped up in some Japanese occupation metaplot-line from what I can recall in earlier editions, but when they did Corporate Enclaves they decided to go nuts with LA and I think it works out really well.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:23
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ProfessorCirno posted:Man, make up your mind. Martello's right, you're just misinterpreting what he's saying. Melee is bad - but having the Adept quality is very very good due to adept abilities such as improved skill and enhanced combat sense. Adepts do not have to use melee and if you're min-maxing melee should always be the "my weapons were stolen/confiscated plan b"
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Mar 21, 2013 23:53
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Super Rad posted:Martello's right, you're just misinterpreting what he's saying. Melee is bad - but having the Adept quality is very very good due to adept abilities such as improved skill and enhanced combat sense. Adepts do not have to use melee and if you're min-maxing melee should always be the "my weapons were stolen/confiscated plan b" Which is fine only if you subscribe to the theory that awesome kung-fu adepts, which is a thing that's been pitched to players by Shadowrun since at least 2E which is when I picked it up, are actually some sort of system mastery style winnowing process designed to separate the smart players from the dumbasses who think "oh man, I'm gonna be a magic ninja and get to dim mak cyborgs in the cyber-face, this is gonna be so loving awesome."
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Mar 21, 2013 23:58
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I mean, if the game at any point of time noted gun superiority it wouldn't really be a problem. But not only is it never stated, the game - yes, even in 4e - likes to very, very often go on and on about how kickass non-gun adepts and non-gun street sammies are. I mean poo poo, we have explicit names for street sammies that divide them into gunbunnies, gillettes, and razorbois - they wouldn't do that if they were trying to tell you "Hey, doing use melee." Unless of course this is all meant to bizarrely be some sort of giant trap to fool players who dare...listen to the fluff, I guess?
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Mar 22, 2013 00:31
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Super Rad posted:Martello's right, you're just misinterpreting what he's saying. Melee is bad - but having the Adept quality is very very good due to adept abilities such as improved skill and enhanced combat sense. Adepts do not have to use melee and if you're min-maxing melee should always be the "my weapons were stolen/confiscated plan b" That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. Melee should be weak in general, but being an Adept should outbalance it and I think it does.
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Mar 22, 2013 00:49
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Not only does Adept not fix any of those five problems with melee that were listed earlier, it's overall seen as one of the weakest archetype - so much so that the overwhelming advice I've seen pretty much everywhere has been "be a cybered adept if you want to be an adept." Or, if you want, you can mosey on down to the Shadowrun PBP going on that Super Rad is running and look at my character then Davin's character. One of us is an adept. One of us does everything the first person does, but better, and ALSO works as a face. Those are not the same characters. 'Ware in 4e just gives you an incredible amount of bang for your buck. Adept powers in contrast give you incredibly little outside of very, VERY specific areas - and even then, you're best off augmenting your adept powers with...well, augmentations. The adept powers for melee combat aren't bad per say, they just fail to solve any of the actual problems.
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Mar 22, 2013 01:53
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To be fair, Way of the Warrior + Talisman Geasas let you get some silly Adept powers right out of character creation, but no matter how you slice it there are some implants that are just so good and efficient that you'd be dumb to not at least plan on getting them down the road aside from role playing reasons.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:49
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See I think the confusion is between the Adept archetype (which is indeed rather weak) and the concept of just tacking on Adept to another archetype for the purpose of boosting that archetype (i.e. Gunslinger Adept, Hacker Adept, etc). The former is a RPing idea, the latter is a min-maxing idea. True Adepts shy away from 'ware because it interferes with their essence, but a Gunslinger Adept is perfectly happy sacrificing a couple essence points on Synaptic Boosters and Muscle Toners, while reserving enough power points to, say add a couple points to various skills (improved non-combat skill is so incredibly cheap - 4 extra dice per power point on anything from hacking, to chemistry, to con!), or add a couple points to all of their reaction an surprise tests, or be able to quickdraw as a free action, etc.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:26
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The thing is that there's some ware that's just so cheap and effective you are literally damaging your character by not taking it - Muscle Toner is the big standout here. Literally every character benefits from Muscle Toner, and it's incredibly cheap in terms of essence/nuyen that anyone looking to do even the slightest bit of optimization should have it. Giving up 1 point of magic to pick up Muscle Toner and a few of the other crazy effective and cheap bits (Platelet Factories, Synthacardium, Cerebral Boosters, etc) of ware is a no-brainer
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Mar 22, 2013 05:37
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One of my players just submitted his character and it's, uh, quite something.pre:Name: Tony (Red) Jones Meta: Human Body: 4 Agility: 5 (9) Reaction: 5 (7) Strength: 2 Charisma: 2 Intuition: 5 Logic: 2 Willpower: 3 Edge: 6 Essence: 4,1 Initiative: 10(12) Init passes: 1(3) Magic: 3 Skills: Stealth: 1 (effectively got 6 dice for almost all of them) Dodge: 4 Total: 11 Etiquette: 1 Perception: 4 Pistols (semi-automatics): 7 (total dice for this is 19 (21)) Knowledge: Alcohol (Beers): 4 Black Markets: 4 Firearms (Pistols): 6 Shadow Community (Rumors): 4 Contact: Bounty Hunter Hitlist 3/2 Positive Qualities: Adept Aptitude (Pistols) Restricted Gear (Rating 1) Negative Qualities: Addiction (Moderate) (Alcohol) Addiction (Moderate) (Painkillers) Sensitive System Bioware: Muscle Toner Rating 4 Reflex Recorder (Skill) (Pistols) Synaptic Booster Rating 2 Adept Powers: Combat Sense: 3 Improved Ability (Combat) (Pistols): 2 Mystic Armor: 1 
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Mar 22, 2013 06:38
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So he's Max Payne then?
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Mar 22, 2013 07:00
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Super Rad posted:See I think the confusion is between the Adept archetype (which is indeed rather weak) and the concept of just tacking on Adept to another archetype for the purpose of boosting that archetype (i.e. Gunslinger Adept, Hacker Adept, etc). Right, but I think this isn't a good thing. I mean, "gun bunny" is an RPing idea and a min-maxing idea. "Mage" and "shaman" are RPing ideas - but if you make a wizard who focuses on spells, or a shaman that focuses on spirits, neither one is going to suffer from it. The Face isn't even really an archtype anymore because of how easy it is to combine it with something else. Same with hackers - which from what I've seen leads to a lot of hackers being riggers, and vice versa. These are all RPing ideas and archtypes that are sorta engrained in Shadowrun (change "decker" for "hacker"), but only the classic "physical adept" or the more melee based razorboi/gillete doesn't work. The fluff of the game paints adepts as almost all being non-cybered. Like, that's the whole point of the adept - they're the non-cybered fightin' dude. It just really doesn't carry true mechanically.
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Mar 22, 2013 07:15
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If I had to guess I'd say that the problem, from a mechanical standpoint, stems from the fact that you can mix adept powers and cyber/bioware at all, and that the designers are afraid that if they make adept powers too good somehow that the same issue will arise only in reverse...except given the extant mechanics of Essence, Magic, and all that jazz you'd think they could come up with some drat solution that lets people who want to actually stick to what the fluff has suggested all these years...the totally uncybered adept who stands toe-to-toe with Joe Cyberdude and fucks poo poo up with his amazing Killing Hands and mad ninja skillz...without causing horrific Frankenstein multiclass issues or the game implying that they're a moron if they don't start auging up. "Technology is straight-up better than magic, suck it wiznerds" is not really how Shadowrun is intended to work I'm pretty sure.
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Mar 22, 2013 07:50
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I'm a bit worried my player here is a bit of a one-trick pony, especially since my campaign won't really be centered around shooting guys in the face, but doing exactly that will lead to terrible things. Should I guide him in a different direction, or is having 20+ dice for guns just fine?
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Mar 22, 2013 09:21
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Mordaedil posted:I'm a bit worried my player here is a bit of a one-trick pony, especially since my campaign won't really be centered around shooting guys in the face, but doing exactly that will lead to terrible things. That's kinda up to you, either you want a completely min-maxed character that can't really do anything but shoot guns and sneak around a little or you don't. If I were running the game I'd be annoyed that he only has one contact and, as noted earlier, is literally Max Payne. It also changes the kinds of encounters you'll need to put together, either you make things that he can shoot but are still a challenge, hurting the rest of the team if they're not similarly min-maxed, or put challenges that cant be shot in, leaving him with nothing to do.
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Mar 22, 2013 09:29
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