|
They'll also get a more productive employee if they have a chauffeur and a maid and a million other things. Nobody cares.
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 20:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 04:01 |
|
|
Yeah I think they will be happiest if you reject the offer and keep looking rather than tell them what it would take for you to accept it. Interviewing more potential hires is fun.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 20:37
|
|
|
Yeah, certainly bring it up but don't count on them going for it. It comes down to the numbers, how they value you, and some other factors. If you're going for a mid-low position they might feel you're a bit fungible and they can hold out for someone who isn't as sensitive to where they live in relation to where they work. And if you're getting freshly hired in then there's a considerable amount of risk of the unknown as far as how you'll perform and deliver for them. I wouldn't disagree that a short commute can be an improvement, but rather restate that a long/lovely commute is a detriment so an act that removes that is an improvement. It's not strictly a function of distance or anything and some people are far less sensitive to it than others, so in some cases it's a marginal improvement. That's a difficult argument to construct as rationale when countering for more money because if you're not careful you will sound like someone who has no considerations for the reality the employer is working under. Trying to resolve what would be a long/lovely commute to increase your satisfaction and productivity is sensible and they'd probably be willing to explore options with you on that; wanting to live within walking distance and looking for them to subsidize the increased property/rent costs is pushing it, and if that cost translates to a 10-15% increase to the salary they offered (which you mentioned was pretty fair to begin with) it's going to quickly appear unacceptable. The problem with it existing as an argument for a counter is you are asking for a very quantifiable commitment from them but the gain they're seeing is neither direct nor quantifiable. The real concrete gain is yours and their gain is derived from that. So, they may agree that making your commute time negligible and increasing your overall satisfaction will translate to increased productivity because you're a happier employee... but what's the coefficient on those increases to your happiness or decreases to commute? You're asking for a concrete, quantifiable commitment from them that directly affects your happiness, but it's going to be challenging to translate that back into some real numbers for them to see their upside. The real reason you want it isn't to increase your productivity to them but to make your work/life situation more enjoyable, let's face it. I'm not saying they won't be considerate to that, but you can only take it so far and it's not a good sign if the living costs are large enough that you need to get into those details instead of just making a generic counter offer for a small bump and the living cost increases are baked into it. If you were asking for them to buy some software license that was, say, $3000 a year but made reasonable claims that it would increase productivity, they might go for it because productivity is clearly the primary goal there. And you'd be crazy to place "it'll make me a happier employee and thus more productive" as a primary argument for getting it, right? You probably would leave that out of the discussion or as an after thought once they're on board with the decision. That's because it's a much weaker argument to work with compared to the direct "doing X will take less time" or whatever the software offers as a cost reducer / productivity enhancer. Now, you also could argue for other things like telecommuting one day out of the week to cut down on travelling days, or working 4 10's and so on. There are a lot of ways to help against a long commute and many of them don't have to come out of the employer's pocket and might be completely acceptable to both sides and make you a happier employee. But when you focus in on "I want to live nearby so I can walk to work" that turns it into a money consideration, and asking for considerably more money--above and beyond a fair offer--to only go directly towards your own happiness is a very weak position to take unless your unique value to them is very high.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
koolkal posted:By that argument, anyone working in NYC could commute from Pennsylvania so they shouldn't earn more based on CoL for NYC. I'm not sure how you got there. An "otherwise reasonable offer" is going to take into consideration the living cost of the area and the market rate for the position. But the general cost of living in the area doesn't necessarily include a Deluxe Apartment in the Sky right next to their swanky downtown office. Bhaal pretty well elaborated on why a desire specifically to walk to work may fall on deaf ears.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 00:04
|
|
|
Yeah, I re-read what I wrote and think I might have come off as a little too accusatorial. I guess I was trying to show it from their perspective if what it boils down to is you asking for a considerable bump in salary so you can live just where you'd like to. It's very poor leverage when they are otherwise offering a fair salary for the general COL and to use it when bringing up a counter offer has a great chance of backfiring on you completely. But certainly counter, and re-reading your post it sounds like they're already undercutting what you're asking by citing inexperience with their specific tools. I hate that, and HR/recruiters are usually the ones who pull that BS the most because 99% of the time they're conveniently un-equipped with the understanding that one particular tech stack or tool is not as a big deal (especially for non-senior type positions), so rebuttals go right over their head. You can construct much better arguments on those grounds to push back on compensation IMHO and they don't need to know the details of what you'd be using the extra money for. Though on that note I'd also caution a bit from a personal finances standpoint. It's already tough enough not to live hand to mouth when you're starting out and from my own experience keeping your personal costs down (or keeping them efficient, let's say) is an important skill and one you shouldn't neglect once you get out of the starving college kid phase and start earning a professional wage. E: Then again I've had the misfortune of driving through Chicago rush hour a handful of times and it scared the poo poo out of me, and I thought I was seasoned to heavy traffic but you people are loving crazy. So it may entirely be worth it to try and factor that out of your daily grind 
Bhaal fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Mar 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
tk posted:I'm not sure how you got there. An "otherwise reasonable offer" is going to take into consideration the living cost of the area and the market rate for the position. But the general cost of living in the area doesn't necessarily include a Deluxe Apartment in the Sky right next to their swanky downtown office. Bhaal pretty well elaborated on why a desire specifically to walk to work may fall on deaf ears. I assumed by walk he included public transit, not literally walking 1 block to his office since Chicago has a pretty good bus and train system. If he wasn't, that's pretty silly, but I figured he was making a reasonable request.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 02:28
|
|
|
Applied for a job with a recruitment firm on Monday. Didn't expect much response. Recruiter called me within an hour of applying. Spoke with him more today, we discussed his client's needs and he was impressed by the fact that I sit on my university's undergraduate curriculum development committee. he asked what my salary expectations were, i gave a canned response that basically side-stepped it, but he followed up with a "if successful, we are willing to offer you $65k*, full benefits, three weeks vacation and will be more than happy to help with your moving costs. It comes with a cost though, we expect quite a lot in the interview." * NOTE: This is in Toronto. According to Human Resources Skills Development Canada, an entry-level Software Engineer in Toronto makes around $50k/year. Checked out the company on Glassdoor, they appear to be solid. Kinda scared about what they might ask on the interview. Of the two posted on Glassdoor, one was trying to see if they matched the culture, and the other was a technical interview (who didn't get the job).
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 04:09
|
|
|
Is there a question in there or are you just relating a story?
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
Mainly a story, but if anyone could throw some ideas of what they might ask on the interview my way it would be useful :}
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 20:29
|
|
|
Just had a phone screening interview with a fairly small development firm (about 200 employees). Their entire area is technical - making apps + websites - so they should have a decent number of developers etc, but the person who was screening me was completely non-technical. I've not graduated yet, but I've got about 9/10 months of industrial experience, but the interviewer was clearly reading from a script and when I said that my industrial experience was almost entirely C (with a little bit of Perl) they didn't know what either of those language even were. They then asked what testing frameworks I'd used at the company and I said Check and Test::More, which they didn't really seem to *understand* as testing frameworks (presumably because they only knew about common Java testing frameworks). Is it wrong to feel sort of turned off/insulted by this?
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 21:44
|
|
|
Not being a C or Perl guy, I don't know either of those testing frameworks either. I assure you that I am quite technical though, so hopefully you're not falsely limiting your definition of "technical" with just what you know. Plus, if it's an app/website company they're not likely to be using C all that much anyway (Perl is more likely but still not highly likely), so it wouldn't surprise me that they are unfamiliar with them. But if they literally had never heard of C or Perl then that would definitely be off-putting. Especially not knowing/having heard of C. I mean, come on. e: oh yeah, for some reason I thought this was stated to be a technical interview - non-technical screens first are totally common and not unexpected at all No Safe Word fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Mar 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 21:53
|
|
|
It's not surprising that your first point of contact with a company was with a non-technical recruiter. While sometimes it is frustrating to have to try and explain concepts to somebody who is screening you, I would assume that if you passed this stage your next interviews will be with people who are much more familiar with software development. I wouldn't feel insulted in the least, almost all companies use recruiters to screen out the obvious bad candidates and then let the more knowledgeable people interview you after that. Although it is strange that a recruiter for a software company didn't know those languages. I wouldn't be totally turned off to a company just by just one person but that is pretty bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 21:57
|
|
|
Sang- posted:Just had a phone screening interview with a fairly small development firm (about 200 employees). Their entire area is technical - making apps + websites - so they should have a decent number of developers etc, but the person who was screening me was completely non-technical. I would try not to judge until you start getting close to people that you'll actually be interacting with. Although this one does seem especially embarrassing for the company in question (not having heard of C or Perl?), you would probably never see or talk to them after you got hired (if they even work there). tk fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 22:06
|
|
|
No Safe Word posted:Not being a C or Perl guy, I don't know either of those testing frameworks either. I assure you that I am quite technical though, so hopefully you're not falsely limiting your definition of "technical" with just what you know. Plus, if it's an app/website company they're not likely to be using C all that much anyway (Perl is more likely but still not highly likely), so it wouldn't surprise me that they are unfamiliar with them. But if they literally had never heard of C or Perl then that would definitely be off-putting. Especially not knowing/having heard of C. I mean, come on. I've had lots of similar interviews previously and this is the first with this sort of screening so it was just really shocking for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
Hey guys, Just got an email from a startup that I interviewed at yesterday essentially saying they want me to work with them this summer (internship). While I am excited about this, there are a few places I'm still waiting to hear back from. I get the feeling that with a startup this small, there is a much greater chance of causing offense, and I want to tread lightly. Any advice for how to move forward? I essentially want to wait on a final decision without being disrespectful. The team was composed of 5 people and the company is ~20 people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2013 01:13
|
|
|
theratking posted:Hey guys, Literally just tell them you are waiting to hear on other internships [within the week, in X days].
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
theratking posted:Hey guys, Seconding the above poster. Let them know you're very happy about the prospect of working there, and that you're deciding between different opportunities. Yada Yada.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2013 12:14
|
|
|
Jam2 posted:Seconding the above poster. Let them know you're very happy about the prospect of working there, and that you're deciding between different opportunities. Yada Yada. And then contact the companies you're waiting on and tell them you have a pending offer. Companies are typically pragmatic and will accelerate their decision process if there's a chance they could lose someone they want just because they didn't act fast enough. When I was interviewing for an internship the recruiter told me multiple times to keep her updated on other offers or even interviews with other companies, with the rather clear implication that the standard interview process can be sped up if necessary.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2013 18:47
|
|
|
Thanks for the info guys. Yeah this is my first foray into the world of competitive internships / jobs so I'm in new waters right now. I'm trying to be careful about waiting too long because they basically told me that they were deciding between me and one other applicant. I don't want to screw the company out of an intern if that other guy went on to something else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2013 19:21
|
|
|
theratking posted:Thanks for the info guys. Yeah this is my first foray into the world of competitive internships / jobs so I'm in new waters right now. I'm trying to be careful about waiting too long because they basically told me that they were deciding between me and one other applicant. I don't want to screw the company out of an intern if that other guy went on to something else. You're only responsible for yourself. Do what's in your best interest.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2013 04:27
|
|
|
Jam2 posted:You're only responsible for yourself. Do what's in your best interest. Is this in the OP somewhere? Because if it isn't, it should be. This is like the most common advice given in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2013 19:30
|
|
|
I had a lot of the same issues and reservations when I was last looking for a job, and it's a little reassuring seeing them posted over and over again -- looks like I wasn't the only one! Luckily, I had a mentor-type guy at the time who gave me great advice, so I'll share them here. Q: "I don't want to leave my current company/turn down the other guys because I feel bad, they're in dire straits, and it will really screw them over." A: "Never feel bad about leaving a job. It's a business, not a family." (My addendum: if they're that deep in dire straits as you're making them out to be, well, they must have gotten into that situation for a reason.) (Addendum #2: This also meaning that the company will treat you like a business, not like a family. If the company isn't happy with you, they'll be more than quick to can you, regardless of how you can't make rent, your kids are starving, etc. They won't be looking out for you in their business decisions, so why should you do the same to them?) Q: "Why should I even bother applying for this job? They want x, y, and z years of experience in a, b, and c! I'm nowhere close." A: "Apply anyway. Let them be the ones to turn you down. Don't turn yourself down." (My addendum: most of these job postings have a huge laundry list of things you "should" know like the back of your hand. Except most places use such a different set of frameworks/technologies that you should be familiar with, that it's virtually impossible to find a candidate who matches all of those qualifications and also happened to be looking for a new job at the same time.) Q: "<New company> asked for my current salary so they can give me an offer. Do I really have to give it [because I felt I could have been getting a lot more]? How do I even answer them?" A: "Your current salary info is personal/private. You won't be the only person that refuses to give them the info, and won't be the last. If you have to, just tell them what salary you'd like, or you can give them the competing salary info." (My addendum: I ended up just saying "If it won't be a problem, I'd rather not divulge my current salary info. However, if it helps the compensation team, here's the competing offer I've received from the other company" and the recruiter was totally fine with that.) facepalmolive fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Mar 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
I am applying to jobs in the bay area and I currently live in Pittsburgh. I have no idea why recruiters keep asking me for my current salary when the market wage is CONSIDERABLY different between the 2 cities, i.e. ~$20,000+. I end up just saying I'm not comfortable revealing that information at this time.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
Out of curiosity, what is the average job application -> interview -> offer ratio for new grads (anecdotal evidence is fine)? What about if you've got some experience (like mid-level)? Does it take some serious job hunting to land a position, or are companies pretty much tripping over each other to get developers in the door? For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career?
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 22:54
|
|
|
As a new grad I applied to probably about 30 jobs, did roughly 15 phone interviews, 4 inperson interviews and received two offer sheets. This was during a span of about a month and a half from late December 2012 to the end of January this year. I have no idea if that was more or less than average, almost everyone who I keep in contact with from school seemed to apply to a couple places and then give up and are currently working the jobs they had before graduating. This was in the Bay Area, which is pretty flush with available development positions. I'm sure it's very different in other areas of the US, but if you have experience and have a halfway decent resume you should be fine at least getting interviews.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
lmao zebong posted:As a new grad I applied to probably about 30 jobs, did roughly 15 phone interviews, 4 inperson interviews and received two offer sheets. This was during a span of about a month and a half from late December 2012 to the end of January this year. I have no idea if that was more or less than average, almost everyone who I keep in contact with from school seemed to apply to a couple places and then give up and are currently working the jobs they had before graduating. Alright that's really good compared to the industry I was working in before (warehouse). I would often call up companies and they would tell me that there were 100 other applicants for the position I was applying for. An interview was probably 1:50 interviews:applications, or even less. That was with 5-6 years in the industry, too. Thanks for the reply. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:Out of curiosity, what is the average job application -> interview -> offer ratio for new grads (anecdotal evidence is fine)? What about if you've got some experience (like mid-level)? Does it take some serious job hunting to land a position, or are companies pretty much tripping over each other to get developers in the door? For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career?
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
- 10 or so "applications" so far (4 of which I did over the weekend) - 3 first round interviews (2 phone, 1 campus screening) all of which resulted in a second round interview (one completed, two next week) - 5+ "Hail Mary" applications I plan on throwing out just for the hell of it The 3 companies I'm in the interview process with all seemed to like talking to me at my campus's career fair. My one regret was not talking to tumblr while I was there. I felt a little inferior to what they were looking for but looking back I should have just bit the bullet. Also, I'm from a business background interviewing with a lot of financial institutions so my CS skills are probably inferior to someone with a BS in CS. Even though I have a MS, I'm still way short of most CS undergrads.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2013 23:52
|
|
|
Good Will Hrunting posted:Also, I'm from a business background interviewing with a lot of financial institutions so my CS skills are probably inferior to someone with a BS in CS. Even though I have a MS, I'm still way short of most CS undergrads.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 00:07
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career? Disclaimer: uneducated response here. But I've been shadowing in-person interviews and ramping up to start interviewing soon, and from talking to veteran interviewers and asking them questions, this is the sense that I'm getting. I'm currently at one of the companies you listed. I did my share of internships, but not at any of the above companies. I'm not sure if a previous internship is necessarily required, but you probably should have some previous project you could talk at length about (research, open source side projects, projects you're allowed talk about from previous jobs/internships). Something to prove you've actually done things in the field and you're not just putting down "I know C" on your resume. But honestly, don't look at it that way. If you're still in college, you absolutely should seek out as many internship opportunities as possible. You should try out startups, large companies, mobile dev, enterprise dev. You should sell out and take a stab at high frequency trading. Or a government or a research stint. They're short, no-strings-attached opportunities for you to figure out what kind of place you enjoy working at, pros/cons of each environment, and determine what is most important to you in a job -- not to mention it's also a good excuse for you to explore and try living in different cities. If you're having trouble motivating yourself to get internships or whatever, look at it this way. You should do internships for you. The resume padding, networking and references, and the extra pay are just a (very) nice little bonus. As for your other question, it's related to the "you absolutely should do internships" thing. It would be unwise if it's your first job out of college, you've never had any other jobs, and you don't know what else is out there. But on the other hand, if you're there and perfectly happy, why fix it if it ain't broken? Edit: Good Will Hrunting posted:I felt a little inferior to what they were looking for but looking back I should have just bit the bullet. See my post above from my ever-so-wise mentor. facepalmolive posted:A: "Apply anyway. Let them be the ones to turn you down. Don't turn yourself down." And as Cicero said, I didn't know jack squat after I got my BS, and it's ok, because that's why they're called entry-level positions. You're already leaps and bounds ahead because you have what many people in the industry don't: humility. That quality alone makes you more willing to learn than, say, the likes of how!!. facepalmolive fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Mar 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? If you're wondering whether or not you should try to get internships: You absolutely should. If you're wondering whether or not you should bother applying even though you didn't intern at these places: You absolutely should. An internship helps, but it's far from required. The worst that can happen is that you don't get a job and you can apply again later. I don't even have anecdotal evidence to support this, but in some respects I would guess that it's easier to get your foot in the door as fresh non-internship grad than as a random face in the crowd with 2-4 years of experience. quote:Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career? It would not be a unwise to try and get a job at one of these companies, though whether you stay there for the rest of your life is a decision better left for the future.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 00:26
|
|
|
Large companies have equally large HR departments actively recruiting. If they only limited themselves to people who have interned there they'd have a very small pool to grab talent. I'm guessing it would be easier to get a job at a company you've interviewed for because you already pass a lot of their "screenings" but this goes for pretty much every company you will work for and isn't limited to big companies. There is literally zero penalty for applying for a job you could qualify for. At worst they will choose "Not a fit" next to your name and will move on. The people filtering out resumes will not remember you, they do not harbor ill-will towards you and if you apply again they will not recall whether or not you've applied unless they ask. The only way I imagine is if there are 100+ job openings and you apply to every single one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 01:15
|
|
|
A lot of what helps for intern/entry level stuff is just being able to succinctly explain what classes you've taken and what you've learned. Saying "I took a Java class" is pretty crappy. Saying "I took a class on abstract data types and learned the classic object-oriented data structures" is just a bunch more confidence inspiring. It seems like a lot of undergrads don't really contextualize what they are learning or get hung up on languages or operating systems. Of course, bad recruiters do this too. This helps especially at the intern level where it may not be immediately clear to the interviewer how far along you are or what you should be expected to know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 01:48
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:Out of curiosity, what is the average job application -> interview -> offer ratio for new grads (anecdotal evidence is fine)? What about if you've got some experience (like mid-level)? Does it take some serious job hunting to land a position, or are companies pretty much tripping over each other to get developers in the door? For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career? I only applied to 6 firms after graduation (not a great idea but at least my backup was an offer from the place I interned at). Out of the 6, I got 3 in-person interviews (2 of which were in my hometown) and 1.5 offers. The 0.5 is for ThoughtWorks, who had a 4-5 round process but took way too long to get back to me at each step so I actually dropped them. This was just recently, from mid December to mid January in Chicago. I only had one internship in terms of relevant work experience but I feel it made a big difference for my luck. Devvo fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Mar 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 02:06
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:Out of curiosity, what is the average job application -> interview -> offer ratio for new grads (anecdotal evidence is fine)? What about if you've got some experience (like mid-level)? Does it take some serious job hunting to land a position, or are companies pretty much tripping over each other to get developers in the door? For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career? To add another data point for you, I was recently hired by one of the companies you listed out of grad school. I've never had a corporate internship. I cast a pretty narrow job search net: I applied to four companies, did three interviews, and got two offers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 04:12
|
|
|
Throwing some anecdotes onto the pile:Don Mega posted:I am applying to jobs in the bay area and I currently live in Pittsburgh. I have no idea why recruiters keep asking me for my current salary when the market wage is CONSIDERABLY different between the 2 cities, i.e. ~$20,000+. I end up just saying I'm not comfortable revealing that information at this time. Knyteguy posted:Out of curiosity, what is the average job application -> interview -> offer ratio for new grads (anecdotal evidence is fine)? What about if you've got some experience (like mid-level)? Does it take some serious job hunting to land a position, or are companies pretty much tripping over each other to get developers in the door? For the big tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft, is a previous internship pretty much required to get a job there? Would it be unwise to try to get in with these companies and stay there for the rest of your career? I'm now approximately "mid-level" and at my third employer, and it seems like there's a drastic shortage of my type here in the Bay Area. I was sent a recruiting email from my now-current employer; I simply interviewed and was given an offer. A very skilled former coworker of mine with a similar level of experience interviewed at maybe 10 places over the winter before suddenly getting 3 offers at once to choose between. The recruiters at my previous employer are having difficulty finding well-qualified candidates who are willing to work there. I'm currently in my first month at one of those big tech companies you mention, and I never interned at any of them, nor is my CS bachelor's from a "Tier 1" school. My credentials were a fair number of small hobby projects, a somewhat well-practiced ability at solving quick problems (thanks thread for recommending project euler), and some great stories about the many difficult problems I'd faced and solved at my previous employer. At this point, I'm quite excited about my prospects and have zero intention of moving elsewhere, but a lot can happen in a few years, so who knows. But if you're currently in college, I do recommend getting some experience, whether through hobby projects (ideally collaborating with other developers), or an internship, or a programming-related job on campus. Even ignoring the benefits to your resume, any of these can help greatly with your overall knowledge and experience as an engineer, or even as a person. Progressive JPEG fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 06:08
|
|
|
greatZebu posted:To add another data point for you, I was recently hired by one of the companies you listed out of grad school. I've never had a corporate internship. I cast a pretty narrow job search net: I applied to four companies, did three interviews, and got two offers. Data point: hired at one of them as well, I did do an internship at the company I was hired at. Most of the other new grad hires I know didn't do an internship here but to me it seems like doing the internship makes the whole interview process way less stressful, if not necessarily easier. vvv what's your ldap seiken fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 14:08
|
|
|
seiken posted:Data point: hired at one of them as well, I did do an internship at the company I was hired at. Most of the other new grad hires I know didn't do an internship here but to me it seems like doing the internship makes the whole interview process way less stressful, if not necessarily easier. At one of those places regular people have to interview all day for full time positions but interns only have to do two 45 minute interviews to transfer to full time, and those interviews don't matter as much because their bosses give feedback as well. It's way easier, and if you have time to be doing internships you should!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 14:56
|
|
|
Just hoping anyone can offer some input/advice... Right now where I work, it's a small company and each developer is responsible for everything. Front end, back end, tech support, training, customer interaction. It's a bit much for someone who just graduated and while I like the company and my coworkers it's not a great place career wise. Half of the team still uses some old, dead language that I've never heard of until I got here. My "mentor" was trying to re-do a customer website and was frustrated because simply copy-pasting the source code he got from his web browser wasn't working  . There is zero growth potential, I have the same duties as all of my peers who are double my age or more.Each week I grow less and less content, and I've finally gotten to the point where I'm open to the idea of help desk at larger companies. I applied for a Tier II internal-facing support position for a child company of Accenture's. They seem like a great company (I interviewed with them before and was positive I was going to get the job until the position was removed due to budget changes) that really stresses growing their developers to be better at what they do, which is important to me. But I'm hesitant to go FROM a Developer to Support. How questionable would that look on my resume? Do you guys think it's a bad idea? Where I am now I'm pretty poorly paid ($40k WITHOUT health insurance, because I'm still on my parents plan) so this new job would probably be the same or better because big company. I'm a giant indecisive ninny and I hate stuff like this 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 04:01 |
|
|
Would you hate the support job more than your current gig? If so just stay where you're at. Why don't you start learning <interesting technology x> during your free time, and then try to get a job working with that?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2013 20:57
|
|
