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Assuming this would be Chinese market only?
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Apr 20, 2013 04:59
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travisray2004 posted:Assuming this would be Chinese market only? It would almost have to be. The destruction of the sub-brands which saved them from financial ruin also seems to limit what they can offer with reguards to market segments.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:03
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SSC recently put out the press release for the Tuatara's monster twin-turbo V8. It looks very familiar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAKj7Jz1zIY I'm glad our favorite engine builder got the gig since the Dagger GT is clearly vaporware.
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Apr 25, 2013 20:39
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New Toyota concept, the ME.WE http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/toyota-concept-sports-light-body-weighty-conscience-140334739.html Yahoo posted:That's the only conclusion to draw from the latest concept car unveiled today by Toyota in Paris. Dubbed the ME.WE, and designed in a partnership with French architect/inventor Jean-Marie Massaud, Toyota calls the car an "anti-excess vehicle," designed to tread lightly on the environment with every touch of its electric-powered wheels. Toyota says the ME.WE suggests the future of transportation, which may make the present seem like a gilded age. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcBtDJgwcSI I'm kind of a minimalist at heart, and this is a concept I could get behind. There needs to be more minimalism in the auto industry now and in the future imo.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:44
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C7 Pricing was just announced. $52k for a base model, which is barely above the cost of a C6 but the car is much better in every way. http://wot.motortrend.com/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-coupe-priced-at-51995-covertible-at-56995-359911.html redscare fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 17:44
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leica posted:I'm kind of a minimalist at heart, and this is a concept I could get behind. There needs to be more minimalism in the auto industry now and in the future imo. When I think of 'minimalist' autos, the first things that come to mind are a Lotus Seven, an Ariel Atom, and the Ferrari F40. Not something like what was in that link 
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Apr 27, 2013 05:02
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redscare posted:C7 Pricing was just announced. $52k for a base model, which is barely above the cost of a C6 but the car is much better in every way. Not bad. Cheaper than the ZL1, but you don't get as many frills for that price.
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Apr 27, 2013 07:14
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kimbo305 posted:Not bad. Cheaper than the ZL1, but you don't get as many frills for that price. I'd have a stripper Vette over an optioned ZL1 on looks alone.
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Apr 27, 2013 07:19
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HotCanadianChick posted:When I think of 'minimalist' autos, the first things that come to mind are a Lotus Seven, an Ariel Atom, and the Ferrari F40. They're different kinds of minimalist. What about a stripper model pickup? A bare bones hatchback? A Willy's Jeep? It's ugly but if it essentially has modular bodywork, a flat floor & wheel motors it can be reconfigured endlessly, both by the owner and the manufacturer. Cars are never going to be doing no harm but reduced harm is a nice goal to be going for.
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Apr 27, 2013 10:10
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kimbo305 posted:Not bad. Cheaper than the ZL1, but you don't get as many frills for that price. "GM Press Release posted:As shown at the North American International Auto Show, the Stingray coupe fitted with the major available options would be $73,360, including: Welp, the new Porsche Corvette looks pretty good. Although the "3LT interior package" isn't just leather, it's also the nav, premium stereo and the heated/cooled seats too. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 11:38
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I love that they charge extra for not painting the roof.
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Apr 27, 2013 11:44
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VikingSkull posted:I love that they charge extra for not painting the roof. Isn't it because the clearcoat for the unpainted carbon fiber costs something like sixty grand a gallon?
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Apr 27, 2013 12:05
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Cakefool posted:They're different kinds of minimalist. What about a stripper model pickup? A bare bones hatchback? A Willy's Jeep? It's ugly but if it essentially has modular bodywork, a flat floor & wheel motors it can be reconfigured endlessly, both by the owner and the manufacturer. Cars are never going to be doing no harm but reduced harm is a nice goal to be going for.
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Apr 27, 2013 13:11
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Isn't it because the clearcoat for the unpainted carbon fiber costs something like sixty grand a gallon?
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Apr 27, 2013 15:06
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Throatwarbler posted:Welp, the new Porsche Corvette looks pretty good. There's quite a few options on there you'd really want, too.
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Apr 27, 2013 15:26
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drgitlin posted:There's quite a few options on there you'd really want, too. Yeah when I first read an article I thought I might just want the Z51 package but now that I see the full list there is more I'd want. What I don't see there is a transparent window removable top. I think that's a dealbreaker for me so can we assume that's something they might introduce next year? They wouldn't just get rid of that completely would they?
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Apr 27, 2013 15:32
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HotCanadianChick posted:When I think of 'minimalist' autos, the first things that come to mind are a Lotus Seven, an Ariel Atom, and the Ferrari F40. Why would you compare what are essentially street legal race cars to an electric commuter concept? Those cars are minimalistic for a reason and need to be, It would be nice if other automakers ran with the same idea of offering more simplistic commuter cars. Like an option of having no options for starters.
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Apr 27, 2013 15:41
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leica posted:Why would you compare what are essentially street legal race cars to an electric commuter concept? Except nobody wants to buy a stripper POS with no AC or radio. The majority of people want options. If you want to streamline manufacturing, which is where the real cost savings are nowadays (not materials), then you standardize to models with all the popular options coming by default, because those are the volume sellers.
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Apr 27, 2013 15:49
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Isn't it because the clearcoat for the unpainted carbon fiber costs something like sixty grand a gallon? I do wonder how much that costs. Leaving the extractor vent on the ZL1 exposed costs $500, and way less clearcoat is needed to paint that than the roof. davebo posted:Yeah when I first read an article I thought I might just want the Z51 package but now that I see the full list there is more I'd want. What I don't see there is a transparent window removable top. I think that's a dealbreaker for me so can we assume that's something they might introduce next year? They wouldn't just get rid of that completely would they?
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Apr 27, 2013 16:01
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Cream_Filling posted:Except nobody wants to buy a stripper POS with no AC or radio. The majority of people want options. If you want to streamline manufacturing, which is where the real cost savings are nowadays (not materials), then you standardize to models with all the popular options coming by default, because those are the volume sellers. Back when the Aveo was new, GM offered a "Special Value" package. You got a brand new Aveo, with a warranty, for just under $10k. Five door, manual windows, manual locks, manual seat adjusters, manual transmission, no CD or tape player, no air conditioning. Literally a roller skate. Bill Heard Chevrolet in Las Vegas, Nevada, could not keep the Special Value Aveos on the lot, they sold so quickly. A car with no AC sold like fuckin' hot cakes in Las Vegas.
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Apr 27, 2013 17:24
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Cream_Filling posted:Except nobody wants to buy a stripper POS with no AC or radio. The majority of people want options. If you want to streamline manufacturing, which is where the real cost savings are nowadays (not materials), then you standardize to models with all the popular options coming by default, because those are the volume sellers. Plus bargain basement new cars are always going to compete with lightly used, but higher featured cars. I also love how well Toyota knows their buyers:  E: Hah, I was on their site to compare a base Yaris with a new-ish SE, and of course Toyota depreciation levels prove me wrong. Nearly $14k for a 4 year old subcompact with 60k that isn't even top trim? Nah, no thanks. redgubbinz fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 17:53
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Left Ventricle posted:Back when the Aveo was new, GM offered a "Special Value" package. You got a brand new Aveo, with a warranty, for just under $10k. Five door, manual windows, manual locks, manual seat adjusters, manual transmission, no CD or tape player, no air conditioning. Literally a roller skate. Bill Heard Chevrolet in Las Vegas, Nevada, could not keep the Special Value Aveos on the lot, they sold so quickly. A car with no AC sold like fuckin' hot cakes in Las Vegas. If what's important to you is a nice new car with a warranty and sensible basic equipment, and you're not fussed by image or premium driving dynamics, they are exactly what's needed.
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Apr 27, 2013 18:17
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Cream_Filling posted:Except nobody wants to buy a stripper POS with no AC or radio. The majority of people want options. If you want to streamline manufacturing, which is where the real cost savings are nowadays (not materials), then you standardize to models with all the popular options coming by default, because those are the volume sellers. Obviously. That's why I said it would be nice. I'm not under any delusions it would happen any time soon, but if Toyota went through the hassle of developing the concept then they must feel there is a market for that type of vehicle in the near future.
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Apr 27, 2013 18:43
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I'm not typically big on leasing, but there are a TON of sub $200 /month 2-3 year lease options out there and it seems to me that it would be a pretty sensible way to go if you just needed reliable CAR at a predictable monthly price. Hell, many people's cell phone bills approach $150 /month and for that you could be driving around in a Ford Fiesta worry free. Think of it as a long term rental of a disposable car. Nothing is going to beat buying used and doing your own repairs for sheer value of a car, but not everyone can afford to do that. There's something to be said for the simplicity of feeding a car fluids for 3 years and replacing it with something new before it has a chance to develop any expensive problems. The point is, you can get a car with decent options for cheap (at least monthly budgetwise) without having to resort to a stripper model. Most people are still going to have to finance a $10k car and that car is going to be next to worthless by the time it's paid off. So, to me, it seems like a better idea to dump the same money into a lease payment and get a better car. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 18:44
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bull3964 posted:I'm not typically big on leasing, but there are a TON of sub $200 /month 2-3 year lease options out there and it seems to me that it would be a pretty sensible way to go if you just needed reliable CAR at a predictable monthly price. Hell, many people's cell phone bills approach $150 /month and for that you could be driving around in a Ford Fiesta worry free. Think of it as a long term rental of a disposable car. But you have to have reasonably good credit for most leases, which is often a problem for people who would be considering a stripped out subcompact.
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Apr 27, 2013 18:56
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Even as an enthusiast, some of the lease deals out there are really tempting for a daily driver. Relatively fixed monthly cost, everything under warranty for the term of the lease, no real concern for long-term reliability/build quality, and you "get" to trade up every 2-3 years. It's certainly still more expensive than maintaining and driving a good 5-15 year old car, but I can see where the appeal is. That said, it's still really tough to beat that feeling of owning a totally paid-off car. Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 18:58
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leica posted:Obviously. That's why I said it would be nice. I'm not under any delusions it would happen any time soon, but if Toyota went through the hassle of developing the concept then they must feel there is a market for that type of vehicle in the near future. Designing a concept isn't a hassle though; it's masturbation. Make some poo poo that plausibly fits together and doesn't have to be safe or useful or manufacturable, see if people care enough to actually start studying to see if it's feasible. That's the perennial problem with them. If a concept is really really cool, people will want the gently caress out of it and be disappointed when the version that can be driven and built and sold in quantity is revealed.
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Apr 27, 2013 19:04
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Those really low payment lease specials are usually low mileage with a ton of money down - like four grand. It's stupid to put money down on a lease.
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Apr 27, 2013 19:13
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Oooh... I have a story about buying a stripper...car.  The local Toyota dealer was advertising a Tacoma for $9999 (this was 2004ish). I needed a cheap truck (temporarily) and this fit the bill. It had A/C and a CD player, nothing else. Sticker was $14000ish. I found out quickly they absolutely did not want to sell this truck. They finally relented, and I drove the truck for a month on temporary tags. Sold it to Carmax for $12500, at a $1500 profit.
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Apr 27, 2013 19:41
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leases are pretty much never worth it when you calculate the actual interest rate it's better to either: 1. buy a 5+ year old compact in good shape that's already depreciated 2. buy a new, stripper, compact for the best possible price and plan on keeping it for a while
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Apr 27, 2013 19:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Those really low payment lease specials are usually low mileage with a ton of money down - like four grand. It's stupid to put money down on a lease. It's no more or less stupid to put money down on a lease than getting the lease itself. It's just a matter of factoring that into the total amount you are paying. For example, right now you can lease a Hyundai Elantra for $139 /month for 24 months with $1699 due at signing. So, essentially, you would be paying $210 /month for the car or $5040 over the term of the lease. That's not low mileage either, that's 12,000 /year. Finance the same car for 60 months at 2.9% financing would cost you $325 /month. A 2007 Elantra GLS is worth about $8k private party right now so we can use that as a baseline for extrapolating the value of a 2013 Elantra GLS in 5 years. So, over 5 years, you would save $6900 in payments leasing over financing. But at the end of 5 years you would have a car still worth $8k if you financed. So, over the course of 5 years, you would spend $1100 more on the lease. However, on the flipside, you would never be driving something older than 2 years old which means no expensive repairs and you likely wouldn't even have to replace the tires. So, that $1100 could disappear really quick. Financially, it's drat near a wash over the long term, but one option is essentially worry free driving. So, there's a good deal of appeal there on the low end to leasing. You don't have to worry about long term build quality and you really don't end up paying a lot more over the long term. Now, if you keep cars for 10+ years, buying will be quite a bit cheaper. But that's a bit of an outlier now and generally people don't want to depend on a 10+ year old car as their only means of getting to work if they can help it.
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Apr 27, 2013 20:08
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Time value of money fucks you on money down on a lease pretty big time.
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Apr 27, 2013 23:19
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bull3964 posted:It's no more or less stupid to put money down on a lease than getting the lease itself. It's just a matter of factoring that into the total amount you are paying. It is stupid to put $4k down on a lease because if your car gets totaled you won't get any of that money back. Your insurance pays off the lease company for the buyout value and pays nothing to you. You're then stuck coming up with a downpayment for your next lease if you want to keep the same payments on the new car. Always do the minimum due at signing on a lease unless you like having a big chunk of your overall vehicle expense uninsured. Just understand that while the monthly payment will be higher the overall cost over the lease term will be within a few hundred dollars.
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Apr 27, 2013 23:23
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Guinness posted:It's still really tough to beat that feeling of owning a totally paid-off car. It's one of the best car-related feelings. "Oh, you think it's sad that I drive a 12-year-old car? Whatever dude, enjoy your ripoff monthly payments, mine's PAID OFF  "
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Apr 27, 2013 23:42
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my father once told me that only a fool leases cars. He's more or less right. If you can get a lease with 0 down or something cheap and a low monthly then go for it, but the only cars that have those types of lease deals are the shitwagons no one wants. I agree that in some situations leasing is a good choice for some folks but down payment requirements are ridiculous for a lot of these car leases and you're basically throwing money down the drain.
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Apr 27, 2013 23:53
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Ineptus Mechanicus posted:E: Hah, I was on their site to compare a base Yaris with a new-ish SE, and of course Toyota depreciation levels prove me wrong. Nearly $14k for a 4 year old subcompact with 60k that isn't even top trim? Nah, no thanks. See, gently caress leasing, this is how you buy a car. Walk on the lot during the dealer's spring or year-end sale and buy whatever vehicle that they have that has been sitting on the lot for a while. Put 60k miles on it over three or four years, then sell it private party for $3-4,000 in depreciation. You will probably put one set of tires on it and six or seven oil changes, but that's it. In fact, I bet you could have picked up one of those 2009 Yarises that you're talking about for well $14k OTD if you timed the purchase right. Invoice on it was $12.2 to 15.0k.
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Apr 28, 2013 01:26
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Leasing makes plenty of sense when the car is owned as a business asset. Also, you guys gotta remember that lease terms are negotiable just like everything else. It seems to me that leases are more associated with relatively expensive luxury cars versus very low end cars, probably attributable to the credit rating required from most financing companies.
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Apr 28, 2013 01:56
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oRenj9 posted:See, gently caress leasing, this is how you buy a car. Walk on the lot during the dealer's spring or year-end sale and buy whatever vehicle that they have that has been sitting on the lot for a while. Put 60k miles on it over three or four years, then sell it private party for $3-4,000 in depreciation. You will probably put one set of tires on it and six or seven oil changes, but that's it. Or you could buy a well-kept used luxury car for $8-10k, put $4k worth of work into upkeep/new tires/regular maintenance over 5 years, and you'll have spent five years driving a nice car instead of a Yaris for the same money.
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Apr 28, 2013 02:25
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So, Mercedes-Benz has introduced the new Unimog.  I want one. I have no need for one, but I want to traverse rivers and crash through forests and terrorize small children with one.
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Apr 28, 2013 06:04
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SouthLAnd posted:So, Mercedes-Benz has introduced the new Unimog. Me too, let's get one. How much worth are your solvent assets combined? It even has a joystick  (who is that loving guy, get out of my unimog)
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Apr 28, 2013 07:39
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