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LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee
The elemental (air) school of magic can give you rejuv and extra speed in one fairly cheap spell. It won't last long, but it's definitely worth picking up if you've got a Dwarven Plate shop in one of your provinces.

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bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
I can't stand using archers. I tend to play a good aligned game so leveling up my units is a pretty big part of the game and there is absolutely no way to keep them alive for any length of time. They will get a spell dropped on them or have someone go through hell and back to charge into them or every single other ranged guy on the other team will focus fire, whatever, something always always happens and they go from full to dead in one turn with no hope of doing anything about it.

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.
There's a rare cuirass that gives you +9 armor or something ridiculous like that, and I'll use a chestpiece if I'm just starting out with a warrior, but otherwise I never use plate. It's not much better than mail and the penalties get pretty nasty, plus mail is usable by commanders as well.

On that subject, what kind of item shops do people like to build in their capitals? I'm fond of master mailmakers and carpenters, with a journeyman jeweler and apprentice tanner or tailor. It lets me outfit any type of hero with decent gear until I can find some artifacts for them.

SumYungGui posted:

I can't stand using archers. I tend to play a good aligned game so leveling up my units is a pretty big part of the game and there is absolutely no way to keep them alive for any length of time. They will get a spell dropped on them or have someone go through hell and back to charge into them or every single other ranged guy on the other team will focus fire, whatever, something always always happens and they go from full to dead in one turn with no hope of doing anything about it.

Most ranged units aren't that good. Crossbowmen and elves are the only ones I ever use.

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011
Whenever I used ranged units I usually on keep them in commander's armies as the buffs really extend their survivability. They can work somewhat in other armies, but you can expect them to die a lot.

Jabarto posted:

On that subject, what kind of item shops do people like to build in their capitals? I'm fond of master mailmakers and carpenters, with a journeyman jeweler and apprentice tanner or tailor. It lets me outfit any type of hero with decent gear until I can find some artifacts for them.

I like to get the journeyman carpenter myself, the heavy arrows and the extra range on the longbow are quite nice. I also like to get the plate armorer up to get all the little HP-boosting items for the warrior.

occipitallobe
Jul 16, 2012

Since I suspect this page doesn't have an English version yet, here is the page the Russian numbermancers have set up that gives you information on how spells, attacks, health, morale, etc, all work in a very precise fashion.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle

occipitallobe posted:

Since I suspect this page doesn't have an English version yet, here is the page the Russian numbermancers have set up that gives you information on how spells, attacks, health, morale, etc, all work in a very precise fashion.

Great, now I just need to find all of the Al Bhed primers around Spira and I'll be all set

Seriously though, that would be a cool site if I had any idea what it was saying.

Garfu
Mar 6, 2008

Much like buttholes, families are meant to be tight.
Soo.... how do I beat the first campaign mission? I'm a wizard and I'm playing on one difficulty above the shittiest... yet I can't build up an army that can contend against the last stronghold army.

Alectai
Dec 31, 2008

It doesn't matter how long I live, I will never have a hat as dashing as this.
Honestly, I just threw a shitload of Spearmen and a couple slingers at the problem TBH and made it go away.

I also levelled them up a bit--with that said, it was still pretty tight.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Garfu posted:

Soo.... how do I beat the first campaign mission? I'm a wizard and I'm playing on one difficulty above the shittiest... yet I can't build up an army that can contend against the last stronghold army.

Grind a lot, or simply restart, take a warrior, and grind a bit less.

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.

Locke Dunnegan posted:

Great, now I just need to find all of the Al Bhed primers around Spira and I'll be all set

Seriously though, that would be a cool site if I had any idea what it was saying.

This is the same page with Google Translate - http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Feador.com%2Fen%2Findex.html&act=url

It's legible enough to provide some useful info.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
There's been talk on the official forum of some bug that resets karma in the Astral, after every shard you conquer. If it exists, it would would obviously put a damper on things, as there are 8 or so endings to the game, and I'm pretty sure at least some of them require high relations with certain Masters.

I don't believe the devs have acknowledged the bug's presence, but I get the feeling it's there, as no matter how much of a good guy I am, I can't seem to bump Oinor's favor up past Indifferent. Has anyone managed to accomplish this?

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle
Oinor disliked me after two Barbarian rush evil runs for my first two shards. I am about to finish my third while being goody two-shoes so I figure it might go back up.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle
Has anyone defeated a dragon? How did you do it?

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

Locke Dunnegan posted:

Has anyone defeated a dragon? How did you do it?
In Genesis, I think I had good luck with a doubleshot archer surrounded by some expendable troops. By the time the dragon chews a path to your hero, you should be able to turn him into a pincushion.

Also, lemme know what Oinor makes of you after a map or two

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.

Locke Dunnegan posted:

Has anyone defeated a dragon? How did you do it?

A twinked out warrior (very high level, tons of resistance and attack power, a lifestealing item REALLY helps) can handle lone dragons without much trouble. I managed to defeat two dragons at once with that set up + Round Attack. As noted, a Scout with Doubleshot will work well if you don't mind sacrificing a unit or two.

The most dragons I've seen in one place is 7, and I'm making it a goal in my current game to try and and clear one out by the end. I'm told you can do it with enough crazy artifacts.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Jabarto posted:

The most dragons I've seen in one place is 7, and I'm making it a goal in my current game to try and and clear one out by the end. I'm told you can do it with enough crazy artifacts.

Yup. Had a berserker/chieftain in Genesis who could do just that. Played a colossal shard and had more than enough time to get him some really sweet armor.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle
Well I finished the third shard being mostly good, or at least as good as I can tell with the lack of information in the game. Oinor still Dislikes me, but the new jerk guy also Dislikes me, but I am unsure if that is from being good this round or him being an rear end.

On a different note, I found the Ethereal Crossbow (+13 RAtk, Magic Shot) pretty early by cheesing with Web on trolls or something, and it let my Scout basically take on entire armies above his level for the rest of the game.

Oh, almost forgot. Is there any reason to stay longer on a shard you can win? Can you unlock more things, or are the items on the prep screen before you invade the only trophies you get?

Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Apr 29, 2013

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Locke Dunnegan posted:

Well I finished the third shard being mostly good, or at least as good as I can tell with the lack of information in the game. Oinor still Dislikes me, but the new jerk guy also Dislikes me, but I am unsure if that is from being good this round or him being an rear end.

On a different note, I found the Ethereal Crossbow (+13 RAtk, Magic Shot) pretty early by cheesing with Web on trolls or something, and it let my Scout basically take on entire armies above his level for the rest of the game.

Oh, almost forgot. Is there any reason to stay longer on a shard you can win? Can you unlock more things, or are the items on the prep screen before you invade the only trophies you get?

You actually get a reduction on 'honor' or whatever the crap that score is at the end of a shard if you spend too many turns in one shard. Not that there's really any reason that I know of to care about that but there it is. Generally, nope nothing from the shard itself carries over. Only the bonuses you can use in the next shard on the invasion screen at the cost of energy and any karmic influence you accumulated with your actions.

P.S. those bonuses are largely worthless, and the relatively few that could have a noticeable impact are so absurdly priced that there's no real reason to bother. Think of your energy pool as a reservoir to tap into for resetting to the astral when things go south on a shard.

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011
Also, it's generally best to finish a shard once the opportunity presents itself because dicking around on a single shard forever is one hell of a quick way to get burnt out on Eador.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!
Grabbed this almost sight unseen just read the op a while back, recently saw it on Steam and said what the hell. Aside from bugs, not being able to turn off animations or skip combat without going into combat, this game is great!

I just finished my fifth or so shard and am now doing a world defense against the brute npc guy which is funny because he was the only one of the other guys that liked me.

When I first started playing I was doing a Wizard and rocking Necromancy/Summoning pretty hard, but after a while I picked up a Warrior and I'm find he's way quicker to get rolling with. The never ending Ghoul/Skeleton army is a lot of fun once it gets rollings, but it's really hard to do so. One game I had no units but only had one square between my Necromancer and the enemy keep, so I attacked a random square and killed the 11 brigand guards he had defending it, turned 7 of them into Ghouls in the process, then attacked his Keep which was guarded by the Thieves guild, and then turned 11 or so thieves into ghouls which filled up the rest of my army. His keep fell quickly after that. A strategy I also liked was having a Warlord and a Necromancer travel together. The Necromancer picks off weak units, raises them as undead and hands them to the Warlord for extra stats who then bombs them into tougher units. A fun strategy but takes a while to get rolling and I just haven't found anything as quick as a Warrior.

I tried the Scout but the problem is that some maps just suck for range units and he tended to stall out in the early-mid game when I didn't quite have enough tier 2 units for him. Now my strategy is get Barbarians quickly, then tech plate armor. As I level the Warrior I only worry about putting his levels into more hit points(later adding regeneration) and Defense. He very quickly becomes untouchable but most stuff that guards provinces and human enemies(the exception being an army of thieves due to poison). I hear a lot of you complain that plate armor reduces his speed but that extra armor is worth it once you have the regeneration going as well. He can easily sit on a hill and tank dozens of orcs or skeletons/ghouls, imps, brigands, taking little to no damage and then healing it away. For stuff that hits from close range, like Thieves, toss one level into his movement which will give him Force March.

The only stuff he can't take early is stuff that's tough for a long time like Minotaurs, shop guards, etc. For stuff like Medusa or Slugs I'll just go recruit a bunch of Barbarians to back him up. Quite a few of the shards will start you next to a Lizardman zone, you can get the quest from them to kill slugs for their allegiance from level 1 so it really is just a matter of finding the slugs themselves.

Late game the Warrior is still great, once he's hit ten turn him into a Berserker and watch him take even less damage while doing more in battle. It's pretty typical for me now, once I get a Berserker to immediately rush the enemy stronghold. I will buy some bastard swords for the trip, and send him on his merry way.

This game is a lot of fun. I think my only complaint is that the early game is soooo slow and since you have to repeat it a lot it get very tedious. I very rarely get to do any of the late game stuff on a shard because I've already won the shard before I get to that level.

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007

I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from
I've gotten to the point where i'm starting to experiment with different multi-class builds. The soul drain on the Dark Knight is pretty incredible. Just plop him down in the middle of a field and keep casting buffs on himself while he counters every attack to come his way. Too many soldiers with range/agility? Them bring on the AoE spells, baby.

I'm wondering if Lategame Necromancer (Mage/Scout) is actually any better than a Pure Mage, or a Thaumaturge (Mage/Commander) when it comes to summoning thriller armies. My gut is telling me to go 420 pure mage all day, but does the necromancy skill actually do anything useful once you hit level 20/30?

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle
When can one start using creature eggs? I finished my third shard and basically built everything I could there, my commander had almost all slots unlocked, and I still couldn't use them.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
They don't come in for quite awhile, you need a specific building in the forestry quarter that allows them to be 'recruited' from the egg into your garrison. Yet another place where the UI blows and something is not at all obvious

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007

I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from

Locke Dunnegan posted:

When can one start using creature eggs? I finished my third shard and basically built everything I could there, my commander had almost all slots unlocked, and I still couldn't use them.

There's a Tier III forestry building that lets you hatch eggs. Can't use 'em without it.

(I was as saddened to discover this as you are.)

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011
You know, I think one of my major disappointments with MOTBW is the fact that it didn't put in some manner of viewable tech tree or encyclopedia in the game because that would make Eador so much more accessible to new players and, as someone who's played the poo poo out of Genesis, would be a godsend of a convenience for everyone else.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle
Why does choosing to let a fleeing enemy run from battle kill the rest of my party every single time?

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
Does this game perform really terribly on anyone else's computer? I'll admit mine's getting kinda long in the tooth, but it runs Skyrim just fine, so what the heck is this game doing that's making everything chug?

Soup du Journey fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Apr 30, 2013

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee
Is it especially chugging in any one particular area? Calculating the AI turns, between turns, strategic, tactical, everywhere?

Skimming the official forums, I see tons of bugs reported, but not much in the way of general slowdown. I haven't seen much myself either.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

LordSloth posted:

Is it especially chugging in any one particular area? Calculating the AI turns, between turns, strategic, tactical, everywhere?

Skimming the official forums, I see tons of bugs reported, but not much in the way of general slowdown. I haven't seen much myself either.
It's everywhere, honestly. There's a turn delay, the unit animations and map scroll screen are pretty choppy, sometimes a spell will hiccup. My CPU (which, granted, is a Pentium D 2.8GHz) flies right up near 100% whenever I load the game. In light of the fact that Skyrim uses maybe half to two-thirds of that, I find this game's footprint to be a little excessive!

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011

Doctor Schnabel posted:

It's everywhere, honestly. There's a turn delay, the unit animations and map scroll screen are pretty choppy, sometimes a spell will hiccup. My CPU (which, granted, is a Pentium D 2.8GHz) flies right up near 100% whenever I load the game. In light of the fact that Skyrim uses maybe half to two-thirds of that, I find this game's footprint to be a little excessive!

Eh, considering all the little stuff like AI movements and random event generation it doesn't seem surprising that an old processor would chug when loading. On the other hand, problems with animations and map scrolling sound rather weird.

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill
So, uh, is the updated version (MOTBW?) worth getting? Sorry if this has been answered before.

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee
I can tell you the game isn't being abandoned. It's been out a bit over ten days, and they've put out four patches, the latest including windowed mode. They seem to not only have acknowledged they screwed up, they're doing what they've said, so far. Though I expect the 60 page guide to take longer than they predict.

Dan Spivakov posted:

Hello guys.

First of all, we want to sincerely apologize for the difficulties many of you encountered upon the game release. We're very sorry to let you down and we're doing our best to fix the most critical problems of the game as soon as possible.

Eador. MotBW is the first big project for our small team and clearly we were not completely ready for the international release. Seeing how many problems are caused by the difference in PC configurations, we realize that we should have tried to go with the 'Early Access' option first. Unfortunately, we couldn't foresee the current outcome back in January when the game was greenlit to be on Steam.

In the next few days we'll fix the the siege and story progression bugs, add 'hotseat' mode and an option for private matches in the multiplayer. A more detailed list of the upcoming fixes will be posted on this board on Monday.

We'll also be adding a 60 page guide with a detailed units, heroes and skills description in addition to the current manual next week.

The studio is keeping track of your reported technical issues so constructive feedback is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Snowbird Games.

It isn't about new gameplay. I don't really have a clue about what, if any, gameplay changes there are, but this isn't intended to be a sequel by any means.

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 30, 2013

Mr.48
May 1, 2007
Was looking forward to this game but was disappointed to learn that you cant stack units, since leading an "army" of 6 dudes is pretty lame. I thought this would be a non-issue after so many years of HoMM but for whatever reason developers still persist with this single-unit nonsense. Its supposed to be a strategy game, not a party-based RPG.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!

Mr.48 posted:

Was looking forward to this game but was disappointed to learn that you cant stack units, since leading an "army" of 6 dudes is pretty lame. I thought this would be a non-issue after so many years of HoMM but for whatever reason developers still persist with this single-unit nonsense. Its supposed to be a strategy game, not a party-based RPG.

On the other hand lots of people disliked that aspect of homm and at any rate it makes for simplier damage calculations and allows for stuff like units leveling up. In the end, its still an abstraction. You're not leading one single militia man into battle, the entire militia is just represented as a single unit for the purposes of the gameplay.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Mr.48 posted:

Was looking forward to this game but was disappointed to learn that you cant stack units, since leading an "army" of 6 dudes is pretty lame. I thought this would be a non-issue after so many years of HoMM but for whatever reason developers still persist with this single-unit nonsense. Its supposed to be a strategy game, not a party-based RPG.

While initally you are stuck with three units + Hero, your army gets pretty large with upwards of 10+ units by the late game of a shard. The units gain levels too but I'd say it's firmly in the middle ground of games like the Emblem series, or Final Fantasy Tactics and HoMM/King's Bounty. Having so few units fits more thematically too as you're fighting on shards of land where only maybe could thousand people seem to live. If you suddenly hand 10k Halflings it would be pretty silly. Besides if you want the giant stacks of doom game, the new King's Bounty games are great and petty good for scratching that particular itch.

Between this game, X-Com, and the King's Bounty series I'd say we're in a pretty good run of strategy titles. Now if they can just remove all that online only crap from Heroes 6, and someone made Silent Storm 3 we'd be in a down right Golden era the likes of which I'd never expect to see in my life again.

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011

nutranurse posted:

So, uh, is the updated version (MOTBW?) worth getting? Sorry if this has been answered before.

I wouldn't say it's worth paying $20 for a somewhat buggy graphics update. Personally, I'm going to wait for it to go on sale, then I'll consider it. If you don't have Genesis yet, however, you definitely should get it.

Mr.48 posted:

Was looking forward to this game but was disappointed to learn that you cant stack units, since leading an "army" of 6 dudes is pretty lame. I thought this would be a non-issue after so many years of HoMM but for whatever reason developers still persist with this single-unit nonsense. Its supposed to be a strategy game, not a party-based RPG.

If it bothers you then you can just pretend every unit represents a larger group of soldiers. :shrug:

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007

I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from
Clearly that man has not played Zombies: the Zombie simulator. Wherein whenever a unit dies you keep casting summon zombie to overwhelm the enemy ranks with sheer numbers.

Or maybe the dude just likes to create big ol' doomstacks and gently caress everything up. Can't really blame him if he does.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

nutranurse posted:

So, uh, is the updated version (MOTBW?) worth getting? Sorry if this has been answered before.
It's a fairly decent update, bugs and performance issues aside. They seem to have cut down on a lot of the filler in the campaign, while still keeping it pretty long, the graphics are pretty (though I'm disappointed that advanced hero classes don't have their own graphics -- I'd like for my paladin to look different than my dark knight), and the themed shards (poo poo-stamina desert worlds, poo poo-morale fear worlds, high gem worlds, etc) are a really good idea.

slightlyslow
Aug 19, 2002
Cheer up, emo kid.
New patch got pushed today. The most noticeable change for me is that unit animations are a fair bit faster, though I don't know the percentage; it's certainly obvious with the speed option maxed. I had also run into alliance quests that could not be completed, and that is supposedly fixed as well.

- Added support for displays with 768 vertical pixels resolution.
- Unit animations have been sped up.
- Added 5 new achievements.
- Multiplayer balance changes.
- Added new illustrations for several events.
- Added option for changing lighting modes.
- Multiplayer stability improved.
- The way heroes' attributes level up has been changed (multiplayer).

Fixed:

- Assert and Access Violation errors in Windows 7, Windows Vista and Windows 8.
- Unusually high levels of enemy heroes.
- Crash caused by loading the game in windowed mode.
- Quests for making alliances.
- Possible crash while using Alt+Tab during loading time.
- Inaccurate attack result prediction as target’s parry skill was not correctly taken into account.
- Earthquake event bug.
- Inability to return a province captured by demons.
- Event bug caused by province’s capture by inquisitors.
- Bugs caused by player’s attack on a guard in his own province.
- Hero’s death when he finds a not guarded sight with treasure.
- Non disappearing icon of a guard after his dismissal.
- Hotkey for ‘Crushing Blow’ skill.
- Some changes in the in-game text.

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Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle
There is definitely a bug for me when enemies run from battle. If I let them run, the battle outcome pops up and all units on each side are dead. If I choose to finish them off, the game hangs with all units untargetable on the battlefield, and I have to load a previous save.

Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 04:45 on May 2, 2013

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