|
How sure are we that everyone is in the same delusion? Roy is in most of these and even when he's not visible, he could easily be just off camera. (About the only one I have a hard time justifying his presence, in fact, is the one with Haley doing the Scrooge McDuck thing.) Meanwhile, what is Belkar seeing? Valhalla? To me, explicitly calling this out as a happy ending says that this is not the way the strip will end, with the simple defeat of Xykon then everyone tying up loose ends and riding off into the sunset to live happily ever after. In other words, since this happened in the delusion, it's highly unlikely to happen in "reality". Regarding the oracularity: ordinarily I'd say that this doesn't count as Elan's "happy ending" unless he actually gets killed before waking up - that would fulfill the prediction, as it would be happy for him but no one else. However, since the title of the strip is explicitly "Happy Ending"... yeah. It counts. Poor Elan. V's on hir way, se'll break them out of it maybe? After that, severe mental trauma...
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 08:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:22 |
|
|
On the other hand: Elan is the sort of person who wouldn't want his companion dead, so you could argue it's not a happy ending for him, and that would have to include Belkar being revived, reformed and working as a gourmet cook for the rest of his life. On the other hand though, he's also the sort of person for whom a companion dying in the climactic battle would make for a natural story development, so in the end, who can tell.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
sfwarlock posted:To me, explicitly calling this out as a happy ending says that this is not the way the strip will end, with the simple defeat of Xykon then everyone tying up loose ends and riding off into the sunset to live happily ever after. In other words, since this happened in the delusion, it's highly unlikely to happen in "reality". Well no duh. The world in rift is enough to ensure that.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 08:25
|
|
|
To me the most depressing panel is that all this time, after all his attempts at fratricide and the gods know what else, Elan still wants his brother to be his brother 
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 08:35
|
|
|
Is Belkar seeing the rest of this illusion too? What happens when he realizes that despite his efforts to change (or at least fake it) the group still doesn't care enough about his death to get him raised?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 08:56
|
|
|
I'm starting to think that this strip is also showing Halley's illusion, since the panels are equally divided between Elan's, Roy's and her "happy ending." The only person missing is Belkar. Maybe he's the one who's going to overcome the illusion and make the others snap out of it?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:03
|
|
|
Haha I just noticed Haley sweeping Elan off his feet for that kiss.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:07
|
|
|
It's happy, but unless he dies still in this illusion, I wouldn't call it an ending. Then again, maybe Burlew is gonna kill Elan, Belkar, and Durkin in this pyramid. That'd take some crazy balls.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:20
|
|
|
So whose happy ending involves meeting and getting along with the monster in the dark? It shows what looks like O-Chul being there but I can't think of why any of the order would include that. O-Chul never really explained anything about it from what I remember.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:24
|
|
|
There's also a slide of V and Durkon casting the ritual on a rift. I don't think anyone present knows about the whole thing needing a divine and arcane caster. I'm guessing O'chul told the Order basically everything that happened with Team Evil during his stay off-screen.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:37
|
|
|
There's also Vaarsuvius and Durkon dealing with a rift portal, and I don't think anyone but Redcloak knows that the ritual needs a divine and an arcane caster. The illusion is pretty clearly based on what the Order know - Redcloak lost an eye but they're guessing which one, they don't know Tsukiko and Thanh are dead - so clearly something's up. Of course, that could be me forgetting that they learned that fact, or maybe it's just their idea of dealing with the rift. "Throw enough magic at it and it'll be alright nope don't care about how or why that's why we bring full casters along." e: 
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:38
|
|
|
cafel posted:Hmm... How would the '...For you at least.' part of the prophecy work? The way I understand it, it's "Will this story (the story of the Order of the Stick) have a happy ending? Yes, for you at least ( but not for all members of the Order)" What I find interesting is that V and Durkon have completely blank expressions throughout the whole thing, save for drinking/casting motions. DrSalt posted:So whose happy ending involves meeting and getting along with the monster in the dark? e X fucked around with this message at 09:46 on May 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:44
|
|
|
What I get from this hallucination is that Roy is much more insecure than I expected.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:52
|
|
|
Look closer. Durkon is certainly emoting. In the very smallest frame that has anything visible (after O-chul and the MitD and Élan with a giant lollipop), it looks like V is talking to someone with a Draketooth colors scheme (orange hair, red and purple clothes). Could be the runes are also affecting V.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:56
|
|
|
Kajeesus posted:There's also a slide of V and Durkon casting the ritual on a rift. I don't think anyone present knows about the whole thing needing a divine and arcane caster. I'm guessing O'chul told the Order basically everything that happened with Team Evil during his stay off-screen. I don't think that's Redcloak's ritual (wouldn't make sense for them to cast that, even if the order knew about it), they're probably just casting some (imaginary) magic to keep the rift secure.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:58
|
|
|
This trap is just the worst possible thing. It's not a TPK, but it's a TP... Something. Realistically speaking, when they wake up from this they should be having trouble functioning as normal human beings, let alone as adventurers. Unless they can find someone who knows a house-ruled remove psychological trauma spell.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 09:58
|
|
|
Triple Elation posted:This trap is just the worst possible thing. It's not a TPK, but it's a TP... Something. Realistically speaking, when they wake up from this they should be having trouble functioning as normal human beings, let alone as adventurers. Unless they can find someone who knows a house-ruled remove psychological trauma spell. Emotion: Hope cast with a permanency modifier?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:02
|
|
|
When did the Order puzzle out the whole 'you can control a Gate with a Divine Caster and an Arcane Caster,' as Durkon and V seem to be doing?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:30
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:When did the Order puzzle out the whole 'you can control a Gate with a Divine Caster and an Arcane Caster,' as Durkon and V seem to be doing? As someone guessed above, I think it's just throwing magic at the problem. Gates obviously need to be dealt with via magic, and what's better than one person casting magic? Two people casting magic. Bam. Makes perfect sense to the non-casters (and Elan).
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:35
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:When did the Order puzzle out the whole 'you can control a Gate with a Divine Caster and an Arcane Caster,' as Durkon and V seem to be doing?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:38
|
|
|
I wouldn't be surprised if Belkar is the one to break the illusion ("This is so bullshit!") and the rest of the order resents him for it, at least at first.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:38
|
|
|
That gate looks like the gate from the first Arc. Maybe they're rebuilding it?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:44
|
|
|
I think it's more like this is the only one they've ever seen*, so now that visual is a stand-in for the gates as a whole to them. *that wasn't concealed as an innocious object like a gem
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 10:59
|
|
|
Oh dear, I did just see the strip's name. That does rather link it to the prophecy pretty explicitly.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 11:43
|
|
|
Throwing it out there; the happy ending is personalized to the individual experiencing it, and what we're been seeing on this page is the one personalized for the reader, so of course it's going to contain happy endings for every significant plot thread that we would be aware of at this point in the comic. It meshes nicely with the page itself forming a swirly pattern.
Slashrat fucked around with this message at 11:47 on May 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 11:44
|
|
|
Trapezium Dave posted:I don't think they know about the Dark One's ritual, but they were told about how Dorukan (wizard) and Lirian (druid) devised a way to stop up the rifts in those scribble strips, which I think is what they are doing in that panel. Yeah given the background it looks like they're just recreating the gate at Redmountain Hills.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 13:39
|
|
|
Slashrat posted:Throwing it out there; the happy ending is personalized to the individual experiencing it, and what we're been seeing on this page is the one personalized for the reader, so of course it's going to contain happy endings for every significant plot thread that we would be aware of at this point in the comic. It meshes nicely with the page itself forming a swirly pattern. It's a neat idea, but the problem with it is that the errors in the ending are still consistent with the Order's limited knowledge of the situation, not the reader's. (For example, Tsukiko not being dead.)
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 13:43
|
|
|
Why can't it just be a dream-state and not a psychologically damaging alternate reality upon waking? I wouldn't overthink things. I'd also consider it to be a pretty big prophecy cop-out to have "this story will have a happy ending for you" mean "this magically-induced fake reality that plays out in your head will have a happy ending for you, before it's broken so you can get on with the rest of the story."
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 13:56
|
|
|
Buane posted:I'd also consider it to be a pretty big prophecy cop-out to have "this story will have a happy ending for you" mean "this magically-induced fake reality that plays out in your head will have a happy ending for you, before it's broken so you can get on with the rest of the story." Elan's exact question was "will this story have a happy ending". Not "Will this story end happily" or "Is this story's ending a happy one" - he unwittingly left open the option of there being a happy ending in the middle of the story. Never trust an oracle.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 14:24
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:Elan's exact question was "will this story have a happy ending". Not "Will this story end happily" or "Is this story's ending a happy one" - he unwittingly left open the option of there being a happy ending in the middle of the story. Never trust an oracle. Heh. It's episodes like this that make me think the comic will end with the world being destroyed and replaced by the one on the other side of the gates. After all, we've now seen how the happy ending would play out, and Rich doesn't seem the type to repeat himself. I'm calling it: they fail to secure Girard's Gate, and we get an Akira at episode 1000.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 14:33
|
|
|
The spiral is clearly all a continuation of the same illusion. It's not a series of separate illusions. There's a story here, a denouement. Loose ends tied up, egos stroked, dreams that come true. Xykon is destroyed, Redcloak is captured, and Durkon comes back with Malack. Belkar's still dead (and was proven a liar by Durkon's continued existence). Then the remaining Order throws the phylactery into a volcano. Everything else is loose ends. Azure city is rescued. The last gate is secured (this counts as a loose end because, as far as the Order knows, only Xykon/Redcloak know about the gates). Elan reconciles with his family, as does Haley with hers (and the Guild). Roy finally gets the recognition he craves, and even Banjo gets his happiness on.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 14:51
|
|
|
It's so  that, deep down Roy -still- wishes to get along with his dad.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 15:02
|
|
|
Maybe Belkar's happy ending is dying in a way that makes some people feel bad (which he might find hilarious), then going on to create a mountain of skulls in the lower depths of whatever hell Chaotic Evils get and ruling from it as a tiny, shoeless God of War.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 15:36
|
|
|
This is why I hate prophecy and predestination as a narrative device.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 15:40
|
|
|
Blackheart posted:It's so I still think this page is solely Elan's illusion, every scene revolved around either himself, Haley (his lover), or Roy (his BFF) and largely ignored Vaarsuvius and Durkon. The only scene where Durkon is shown doing anything aside from the Azure City fight is drinking with Roy which is something Elan knows Roy likes, if this were Roy's or Haley's or Belkar's illusion it would almost certainly be playing out differently
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
greatn posted:This is why I hate prophecy and predestination as a narrative device. All fictional worlds have predestination built into them because they are artificial and the product of a narrative. Prophecy just means the characters get to know a bit about it.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
Huh, maybe my prediction from before will come true. I will agree that this is most likely only Elan's illusion. Roy's father having angel wings is a simplistic idea that Elan would believe. How he actually knows how Roy's father looks (or if he just guessed "Roy with a white beard"), is an issue, though.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 16:06
|
|
|
Buane posted:I'd also consider it to be a pretty big prophecy cop-out to have "this story will have a happy ending for you" mean "this magically-induced fake reality that plays out in your head will have a happy ending for you, before it's broken so you can get on with the rest of the story." I think what Rich is doing here is not a cop-out, but a fake cop-out that is designed to make the reader (and heroes) worry. Elan was promised a happy ending, so he (and many readers) have been comforting themselves with the knowledge that he and at least Haley will survive. This development doesn't actually take away what I imagine will be a happy ending at the end of the story, but it gives the illusion of doing so. The fate of the characters becomes less secure, and therefore the tension in the story builds. It's like how George R. R. Martin will kill characters left and right--it makes the fate of any other characters less predictable, leading to a more tense and unpredictable story.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 16:10
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:All fictional worlds have predestination built into them because they are artificial and the product of a narrative. Prophecy just means the characters get to know a bit about it. Not necessarily, a lot of creators make the narrative as they go along, planning little in advance.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 16:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:22 |
|
|
greatn posted:Not necessarily, a lot of creators make the narrative as they go along, planning little in advance. We call these people "bad at storytelling". 
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2013 17:35
|
|
