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EvanSchenck posted:That was a complete fiasco for the FBI, as I outlined above. Wait, the Colombians stiffed the Greeks on baking soda?
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May 20, 2013 09:08
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No the Columbians underpay the Greek on the chemicals used to make Cocaine out of Coca leaves.
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May 20, 2013 09:30
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Buller posted:No the Columbians underpay the Greek on the chemicals used to make Cocaine out of Coca leaves. Oh, okay. That makes a little more sense. But still, I can't imagine that process requires more than some simple solvents, maybe some strong acid/base, and at worst some distillation. Doubt it requires going international. Beside which cocaine almost never comes into the country unprocessed. It's grown in Colombia or Bolivia or someplace, processed in the country next door, and usually cut a couple times by the time it's shipped to the consuming country. Importing coca leaves themselves is impractical for reasons including the sheer bulk of it.
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May 20, 2013 09:44
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I don't know that it is accurate to say that the Greek is the international crime ring. He seems to me to just be a shipping company. He's got ways to move goods in bulk by boat, doesn't really care what those goods are and can evade legal issues such as customs. I think it's actually rather odd that he seems possibly more directly involved with the brothel.
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May 20, 2013 17:03
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Mescal posted:Oh, okay. That makes a little more sense. But still, I can't imagine that process requires more than some simple solvents, maybe some strong acid/base, and at worst some distillation. Doubt it requires going international. Beside which cocaine almost never comes into the country unprocessed. It's grown in Colombia or Bolivia or someplace, processed in the country next door, and usually cut a couple times by the time it's shipped to the consuming country. Importing coca leaves themselves is impractical for reasons including the sheer bulk of it. Just how many chemical factories do you think there are in Columbia? Okay prolly some, but what im trying to say is that when youre getting tons of chemicals for you illegal drug smugler ring. You probably just take what cheap chemicals that you can get especially if you trust the dude youre getting it from to be effective in his business, cheers. Buller fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 18:51
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Buller posted:No the Columbians underpay the Greek on the chemicals used to make Cocaine out of Coca leaves. Hahah, this is what I meant to say. Mescal posted:Oh, okay. That makes a little more sense. But still, I can't imagine that process requires more than some simple solvents, maybe some strong acid/base, and at worst some distillation. Doubt it requires going international. Beside which cocaine almost never comes into the country unprocessed. It's grown in Colombia or Bolivia or someplace, processed in the country next door, and usually cut a couple times by the time it's shipped to the consuming country. Importing coca leaves themselves is impractical for reasons including the sheer bulk of it. They actually name the specific chemicals that Nick is stealing for them. I don't have the episode in front of me, so the only one I can remember was acetone, but you're right that the list wasn't particularly exotic. So why steal it in the first place? Price is one reason, in that stolen goods usually go for quite a bit less than legitimate purchases. Paperwork is another. You can go to a hardware store and get a can of acetone with no issue, but say you want industrial quantities of it, like the Colombians do? You'll have to get it wholesale, and there are rules for buying and selling large quantities of industrial chemicals. They'll want to know what you're using it for, especially if they're the exact chemicals used to produce cocaine and you want them shipped to Colombia. I've read more about this with regards to methamphetamine, but I know that in that case the precursors are tightly controlled and major manufacturers have to jump through some significant hoops to get the quantities they want without drawing attention. Orange Devil posted:I don't know that it is accurate to say that the Greek is the international crime ring. He seems to me to just be a shipping company. He's got ways to move goods in bulk by boat, doesn't really care what those goods are and can evade legal issues such as customs. International crime rings are exactly this, for the most part. The Greek runs a particularly streamlined version of it because he has no involvement in either production or distribution of what he's working with, but the basic business model is not dissimilar from other, real-life groups. quote:I think it's actually rather odd that he seems possibly more directly involved with the brothel. It's probably because the brothel has a high profit margin, low manpower requirements, low risk, and the barriers to entry are low. The distribution end of drug dealing is a much more complicated and risky business, which he leaves to guys like Marlo--characters who are the top of the Baltimore crime ladder but who are functionally little more than independent contractors to the Greek. Edit: Also, to go back to the crack seizure, it isn't a coincidence that the Colombians happened to be shipping a metric ton of drugs through the port of Baltimore, and that the Greek happened to know exactly which container it was. Reasonable supposition is that the Greek organized the shipment for them in exchange for a flat fee, and that the container was bound for their people elsewhere, perhaps New York. He caused that shipment to be busted, but how many earlier were passed through without incident? Schenck v. U.S. fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 19:50
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I thought the Greek also produced the drugs - isn't that the whole point of his arrangement with Joe and later Marlo? They even show the actual transaction twice, first with Cheese getting robbed by Omar then with Chris and Monk getting jacked up by the MCU. Obviously he's far enough removed that the cops don't figure out who the supplier is when they bust Marlo but still. grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 20:00
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cletepurcel posted:I thought the Greek also produced the drugs - isn't that the whole point of his arrangement with Joe and later Marlo? They even show the actual transaction twice, first with Cheese getting robbed by Omar then with Chris and Monk getting jacked up by the MCU. Obviously he's far enough removed that the cops don't figure out who the supplier is when they bust Marlo but still. Actual production of the heroin that can be found in the USA is mostly in the hands of criminal organizations like Colombian paramilitaries or the Mexican cartels, who pay the farmers to grow poppies and then they refine the opium into heroin in factory-style operations. Most likely the Greek has a relationship with somebody down there, and he buys at the source and brings it to Baltimore to hand off to distributors at a gigantic markup. The vast majority of the profit accrued in this chain (farmer->refiner->smuggler->distributor->dealer) stays with the guy who gets it into the USA, i.e. the Greek.
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May 20, 2013 20:16
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Drugs are produced in Columbia or Afghanistan and then they are shipped into Baltimore, thats why the harbour (aka. season 2) is even related to the rest of the series holmes. The Greek imports and sells in wholesale. Greek is basically the connect, if you know slang.
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May 20, 2013 20:18
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Buller posted:Drugs are produced in Columbia or Afghanistan and then they are shipped into Baltimore, thats why the harbour (aka. season 2) is even related to the rest of the series holmes. The Greek imports and sells in wholesale. Ah I just got confused since they show him buying the chemicals to make drugs as well. If not for heroin what are those for?
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May 20, 2013 20:24
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cletepurcel posted:I thought the Greek also produced the drugs - isn't that the whole point of his arrangement with Joe and later Marlo? They even show the actual transaction twice, first with Cheese getting robbed by Omar then with Chris and Monk getting jacked up by the MCU. Delivering the drugs and synthesizing the drugs are two different things.
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May 20, 2013 20:24
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cletepurcel posted:Ah I just got confused since they show him buying the chemicals to make drugs as well. If not for heroin what are those for? Read the bloody page mate.
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May 20, 2013 20:46
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The Greek is a lot like Charlie Sommers. Buy for one dollar, sell for two. His deal with the columbians was likely that he'd provide/ship them the chemicals, they'd process the drugs, and the Greek would ship them to various locations. However it see,s like the Greek might sell the drugs on the commission or something similar. Spiros certainly seems to deal directly with Proposition Joe and his people. But that might be heroin, and not cocaine/crack cocaine. And if I remember right when Joe makes a proposition to Stringer hie says that he only goes to New York for his coke.
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May 20, 2013 20:49
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Season 2, Episode 11: Bad DreamsSobotka posted:I need to get clean. 6am in the morning and Nick is sleeping in bed with Prissy, their commiseration over Ziggy's fate the previous night apparently having ended up getting physical. At various places in Baltimore, police and FBI burst in the doors to make their belated raids and arrests, lead by the Detail. Daniels and Greggs are at the Pyramid Warehouse; Bunk, Freamon and other police burst into Glekas' store with no idea that the man they're looking for is dead; and a confused and upset Aimee is woken from Nick's bed at Louis Sobotka's house. The Pyramid and the store both turn up the same thing - nothing - and Daniels realizes they've missed their shot. Greggs spots the residue around the drain and collects some, showing it to Daniels and the FBI Agent, all of them understand the drugs have been flushed. In the store, Freamon can't believe how thoroughly the place has been cleaned out, while Bunk has found a large blood stain, no idea that Landsman and the Homicide Department have the answers to his questions. Things aren't a complete loss, however. White Mike McArdle is arrested in his home, taken away in cuffs protesting that they have nothing on him; Beadie finds weapons in Eton's home and he is taken away in cuffs too; McNulty and Fitzhugh dive on Sergei in his bedroom and force the struggling Ukrainian to the ground; and in Louis' home Carver is delighted to show off the huge roll of cash he's found in the air duct... and then Herc finds a bag filled with gel caps of heroin. They present the drugs and money to Louis, Joan and Aimee in their lounge, Louis' face falling as he realizes what his son has been doing, Aimee exposed to a truth she may have suspected in her subconscious. Nick himself wakes up hungover but unaware that his life has just collapsed from under him, spotting Prissy next to him and grimacing - he thinks that this is the worst thing that will happen to him today.   Frank Sobotka is blissfully unaware of what is going on, though he's not in bliss. Leaving his house, he checks the newspaper and finds that Ziggy's arrest has made the front page... of the B Section. Depressed, he heads out the gate and down the hill, watched from a parked car by two FBI Agents who decide not to arrest him there because there is "not enough profile". This gets a laugh from their backseat passenger - Major Valchek is in full dress uniform, looking forward to getting his "revenge" on Frank at last. Back at the Detail Office, Beadie is getting a lesson from Daniels. She doesn't understand why Spiros wasn't arrested, and he explains that the text message instructing Spiros to shut everything down showed them that they were wrong about him being the "Boss Man". There is somebody else above him, somebody they don't know yet, and they want to find out who that is. Freamon and Greggs arrive with the newspaper, they've finally discovered that Glekas was killed, showing the article on Chester Karol Sobotka being arrested for the double shooting. They explain that after the store was a bust they went to Glekas' house to serve the warrant and found it filled with tearful relatives who, quite justifiably, couldn't believe the stupidity of the two detectives here to arrest a dead man. Often in television shows and movies, police are intimately aware at all times of what is going on with their targets, the first to be informed upon a death or arrest or release. Here we see a far more realistic take on things (as we will with Avon's release in season 3), nobody informed them about Glekas' death because nobody knew they were investigating him. It would have come out eventually, and might have come up sooner if Ziggy had run away or tried to justify his killing. But because Ziggy confessed, because the city is so beholden to the stats game, because Landsman just wanted to get the clearance and move his men on to the next case.... Glekas was just a name on a sheet of paper to him. A furious Daniels phones up to find out what is going on, his eyes widening dangerously as he hears that Landsman caught the case, and he storms out of the building snapping at Freamon to start the interrogations. Outside, he passes a returning McNulty, Fitzhugh, Herc and Carver without a word, driving away to tear a large chunk out of Landsman's ample rear end. Confused by Daniels' obvious bad mood, the three detectives continuously look back after Daniels' departing vehicle as they compare notes on who was picked up. McNulty explains that the Feds are waiting on picking up Frank Sobotka, and tells them they don't want to know the reason why. At the Union Hall, a weary Frank is on the phone to his lawyer asking to get access to a criminal lawyer for Ziggy, trying to keep things together. He hasn't been allowed to see Ziggy yet, he has to wait till visiting hours, so far he knows absolutely nothing about what Ziggy has done or why he did it. His own troubles are about to pile on though, the FBI dramatically skids to a stop outside the Hall and Agents spill out. The door is burst open and they rush inside amongst bewildered stevedores, Valchek following in their wake and looking about for Frank, guessing that he's in the office and heading straight for him. In the office, Frank looks up as the Agents arrive, and shows remarkable calm as he tells his lawyer he has to go, but the leading Agent grabs the phone from him and slams it down. Horseface shares a confused look with Frank as they're cuffed, Valchek applying them to Frank himself, gleefully taunting him - the big man on the docks? He doesn't look so big now! Remember, ALL of this is because Valchek got pissed off over Frank unknowingly providing a stained glass window to the Church before Valchek could "surprise" the priest with one of his own. But Valchek isn't the only petty one there. FBI Supervisor Amanda Reese looks out the window as Valchek escorts Frank from his office, frowning because no press has arrived yet. The FBI's part in this is very much politically minded - they want the PR Coup of being seen to strike a blow against Union Corruption. Nick arrives home and is confused by the neighbors standing out on the street, all of them staring at him. The front door is open and he heads carefully inside, sensing something is wrong, and finds his weeping mother cleaning up after the mess caused by the raid. She doesn't react to his voice at all, even to get angry, she just keeps cleaning up. He goes downstairs and finds his father - still in his dressing gown - attempting to clean up as well, both parents attempting to pick up the pieces. His father doesn't react to him either, but it doesn't seem deliberate, he's lost in his own grief, confusion and anger towards his son to notice him at first. When Nick finally gets his attention, he looks first at him and then back at the air vent, and grunts angrily that "it" is all gone, and the money as well. The police told them that Nick had to hand himself in at the Southeastern Police District. Then he turns his head away, shaking it in disgust. Back at the Union Hall, the press has finally arrived and Reese gives the go ahead at last to leave. Frank and Horseface have been forced to sit and wait in uncomfortable silence with Valchek, but the Major is practically skipping as he pushes Frank out the door. Eager for a juicy corruption story, hordes of press have arrived from the Press and Television, amongst them Wire co-creator David Simon representing his old newspaper The Baltimore Sun. Valchek grabs Frank by the chin and forces him to face the cameras, exalting in his "revenge", this is the justice he has been looking for all this time. Frank did something he didn't like, and then insulted him when Valchek tried to bully him before even telling him what was bothering him. What an rear end in a top hat that Frank Sobotka is!   Landsman is for once at a loss for words, staring shamefaced up at Daniels who has confronted him in his office. Daniels reminds him that he took the 14 murders on to HELP the Homicide Department and now they've potentially hosed him on a huge part of his case because they couldn't put 2 and 2 together and phone him up and say that they had Ziggy Sobotka in custody for the murder of George "Double G" Glekas - even for a supremely hosed up Police Department, Daniels growls, this takes the cake. Having let out some of his pent-up fury, he asks what the police took from the scene, and Landsman - on safer ground now - lists off the photographs, latents and shell-casings... and then winces as he realizes what must have happened - Glekas' people came back after the police left and cleared the whole place out. Trying to make the best of a terrible situation, Daniels looks for information, how did Ziggy play it? It was an argument over a couple of stolen cars, according to Ziggy, and Landsman didn't probe any deeper than that. The trouble for Daniels now is that Ziggy has already been processed by the BPD, so if Daniels wants to talk to him now, he has to do it through Ziggy's lawyer. Daniels leaves, having gotten nothing but bad news, and a despondent Landsman makes the understatement of the century, apologizing to Daniels and saying this is "my bad". Herc is becoming frustrated as he and Carver attempt to interrogate Eton. He won't speak, he doesn't even change his expression, just staring a hole through Herc. Carver lights up a cigarette, which does seem to get Eton's attention, he appears to find Carver smoking offensive. Ilona is similarly stonefaced in interrogation with Greggs and Beadie, the only speaking she does to insult Greggs as lesbian. How does she know, you might ask? As with Bird, it strikes me that this is just a generic insult to throw at a tough woman detective as opposed to some amazing insight into human sexuality. Finally, Sergei is doing the same blank-faced look to McNulty and Fitzhugh, until McNulty decides that if he won't give a name they'll just call him Bors. "Boris," sighs Sergei, shaking his head,"Why always Boris?"    Frank is also being interrogated, a smug Agent Reese listing off they charges they have against him, and they don't make for a pretty picture. Frank has colored his actions as necessary for the greater good, the restoration of the glory days of the Baltimore Docks. But all that seems a pathetic justification as he's hit with racketeering, wire fraud, conspiracy to import heroin, conspiracy to violate Federal customs statutes and finally, the cherry on top, white slavery. They're only going to charge him with the customs violations, but a Grand Jury Indictment will eventually expose him to a lot more. If he names names and comes clean, it will help him and his Union. That gets his attention, the beaten and broken Frank Sobotka sits up straighter, steel in his spine and his voice as he takes grim solace in his obsession. Help his Union? In a wonderful bit of acting from Chris Bauer, Frank rants about the slow death of the Union, drydocks rusting, pier standing empty, feeling like his friends and their families have "the cancer". In all that time, no lifeline has been thrown, nobody has offered to help them. The unspoken justification, of course, is that Frank was FORCED to do what he did to save his way of life, that they had to get help from the likes of The Greek and from themselves. There is truth to what he says, of course, the automation of the workforce cost tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people their jobs, and it isn't as simple as just saying,"Why didn't they just go and get jobs elsewhere?" These people are the end result of generations of labor that came about because it worked to make money for management and owners up until the moment that they could make more money by throwing them on the scrapheap. These are people who worked hard on the notion that they were integral, important and proud part of an industry that only cared about for as long as it was profitable to do so. So the rage and the confusion can be understood, even if Frank's actions cannot be excused. Meanwhile, the Detail is having a little more success now that they've moved on from The Greek's men and onto those who they wholesale too. Greggs and McNulty have hit White Mike McArdle has been hit with an avalanche of evidence against him - they have audio of him discussing a drug buy with Sergei, they have photos linking him to his stash houses, they have everything they need for a conviction... so what can he offer THEM to alleviate some of the weight on him? Frank is taken to Court and uncuffed to attend a Detention Hearing, and his lawyers assure him that barring anything unforeseen they should have him out on the street in an hour - he's in no way a flight risk (he's about as tied to Baltimore as you can get), and he didn't give the "suits" anything. White Mike can't say the same. He's almost casually giving up evidence on everybody he knows in the Greek's Organization - though to be fair he doesn't know much beyond the fact that Eton handles the dope and is "Jew from that Jew country they got"; and that Sergei is straight muscle. Trying to act relaxed and cool, he complains he is hungry and asks for a couple of hot dogs and a strawberry shake, and Greggs is irritated when McNulty foists the duty off on her. White Mike - nowhere near as impressive as Wee-Bey - asks her to "hook a brother up". Omar arrives at Butchie, having surprisingly agreed to meet with Stringer Bell there. Butchie's muscular nephew Heywood is providing the security as promised, though Stringer has the hulking Perry there as his own muscle. Perry wants to pat down Omar, who laughs that this doesn't work for him. Stringer - who NEEDS Omar - agrees to let it pass, and the two unlikely associates come face to face again. Omar needles Stringer, saying he's been looking forward to setting eyes on him again and get revenge, but Stringer - to his great credit - plays the usually alert Omar like a fiddle. Pointing out that Omar has already achieved a massive amount of revenge - Bird in prison, Wee-Bey gone "forever and a day", Stinkum dead at Omar's hands and Avon out of pocket "for the time being". Omar insists that there is no "getting even", not unless Brandon can climb out of the grave and walk in to join them here. Stringer notes the legitimacy of Omar's rage, but stresses that their actions were legitimate too, they had to put a bounty on him. Omar has to admit it was in "the game" to mark he, Brandon and Bailey for death after they robbed Avon's stash (interesting, Stringer refers to it as HIS stash, not Avon's), but stresses that Brandon's torture went beyond that. Stringer agrees, but claims that he wasn't responsible for that, those were the actions of a man trying to build a legend/reputation, a small bow-tie wearing motherfucker from NYC. Stringer wasn't there, the other muscle was but only to watch, it was this other man who performed the torture. He lists the things done to Brandon, Omar's face betraying the pain of knowing what his lover went through, and then when the time is right he hits Omar with the name - Brother Mouzone. Omar has clearly heard of him before, and his desire for revenge has been masterfully fired up by Stringer, but he's smart and wary enough to want to know WHY Stringer is giving him this information. Stringer's explanation is feasible, Omar is a thorn in Stringer's side and giving him Mouzone makes them even. Omar can accept this, he has no idea that he's just been expertly played into doing Stringer's dirty work... what's worse, he's doing the dirty work of the man who oversaw the torture of his lover.   His Detention Hearing over, Frank is in a rush to get out of the Court, ignoring his lawyers pleas to stop and have a coffee so they can talk about the case. Frank refuses, he has to see Ziggy, and he needs to get clean. White Mike is coming clean. With a heavy sigh, he reveals that Sergei "and them" killed Mau Mau Wills for "welshing on the Jew". But McNulty and Greggs are really more interested in who Eton and Sergei report to. Unfortunately for them, White Mike doesn't know, and he's not blowing smoke up their asses either, he legitimately doesn't know anybody higher than Eton and he didn't want to know - he was smart enough to realize that the less he knew, the less danger he was putting himself into. Frank gets to see Ziggy at last, and when he spots the bruise on Ziggy's face his first thought is that the cops did it. No such luck for Ziggy, as Frank turns and sees a group of large prisoners peering gleefully through the window at Ziggy. Small and skinny, Ziggy is a born target, they'll eat him alive in prison and Frank clearly knows it. He tells Ziggy he's trying to organize bail, clearly concerned that Ziggy understand that at least, he IS trying. Ziggy nods and smiles, and Frank finally gets down to it - WHY did Ziggy do it? The answer is depressingly honest. Ziggy simply got tired of being everybody's joke. He lowers his eyes, shamefaced at admitting this, and Frank swallows his grief and asks why Ziggy didn't come to him with his problems, he was always there, and Ziggy's hurt reply is that Frank was NEVER there. He was always busy dredging the canal or getting the right person elected or buying a round for the house. Ziggy smiles, he always thought Frank was working when he wasn't around, and Frank insists that it WAS work... even when it wasn't. Ziggy, crying openly, tells Frank that the same blood doesn't flow for them, he wishes he could be like Frank but he isn't, and Frank insists that they're more alike than he knows. Taking solace in his pride, he proclaims that Ziggy is a Sobotka, but Ziggy's reply is that what he is, is hosed. The sad thing is, they're both saying the same thing. In amongst this remarkable scene (great acting from both Chris Bauer and James Ransone), an absent figure is discussed for what I think is the first time in this entire season. Ziggy has a other, Frank has a wife, as unseen as Frank's other son/Ziggy's ACTUAL brother. In just a couple of lines they paint the picture of an unhappy woman, deadened to the world by prescription drug abuse, and perhaps one facet/explanation of why Ziggy lashes out for attention and Frank puts so much of himself into his work. Ziggy dries his eyes and steps up, putting on the act of the old carefree Ziggy who died that day when he saw what he did to the kid who worked there, throwing his arms wide and asking Frank with a sad grin what the gently caress can he do? He's let out of the visiting room and passes through the group of large prisoners who turn to watch his passing with avid, unwelcome interest. Frank walks open-mouthed to the window and watches his son disappear into the mass, never to see him again.    That night, McNulty, Greggs and Beadie are catching Daniels up on their progress through the day, Fitzhugh napping in the background. They think they can push White Mike for more, and will bring in Pearlman tomorrow to have another shot at him. They still haven't been able to find Nick Sobotka, but Daniels is more concerned by the lack of progress towards Spiros, they know next to nothing about him and the people they do have only take them as high as Eton and Sergei. Bunk cracks a joke about Greek names and McNulty tells him to lay off, they invented civilization after all. "Yeah?" notes Bunk,"That and rear end-loving." Daniels asks Fitzhugh if they can borrow any more FBI people to get an eye on Spiros, but he notes what should be immediately visibly obvious - the FBI has gotten what they wanted out of the deal and already moved on. Their interest was in a Union case, they've gotten it, and now only Fitzhugh is left to represent the FBI in what is left of the rest of the case. Knowing they have to do something, Daniels shrugs and says they'll just have to use their own people for surveillance. Frank and Louis share a drink at Louis' house, where Louis offers his commiserations to both of them over their sons' actions. Their amiable evening doesn't last though, as it quickly becomes apparent that Frank is still in the dark over what happened with the raids today. He still thinks that they raided Louis' as part of their investigation into the smuggling, and an angry Louis shows him the search warrant, saying it's a "receipt" for what was found, and that includes heroin. HEROIN! Frank is horrified and refuses to believe that Nick would be involved in such a thng, and lets out that he was aware that Nick and Ziggy stole a can of digital cameras. Louis had no idea about this, and accuses Frank of giving them a taste of easy money, of course they stayed involved after that, why would they turn straight after being rewarded for being crooked? Louis complains that Nick took too much of a lead from "Uncle Frank and his big shoulders", "Uncle Frank will fix things if they're broken". Frank has seemingly told Louis about The Greek and his part in smuggling for him, and it seems that Louis somewhat commiserates with Frank's cause, but he demands that Frank not let "that excuse this!" - for him, the drugs are a far worse crime, one that cannot be justified. He storms up the stairs, leaving behind Frank, completely isolated now. In a cheap motel courtyard, hookers pass through and Lamar returns from a shopping trip, throwing treats to a stray (presumably) dog before making a specific knock on the door of the motel room on the balcony level. Brother Mouzone lets him in and asks if he's picked up Harpers yet, and Lamar casually jokes that the local place only has titty mags "if he has the need", but he promises he will get him what he needs. He heads back outside, throwing treats to the dog again. The entire time from the opposite side of the courtyard, behind a dumpster in the shadows, Omar stands unmoving, watching. He knows where Brother Mouzone is, but he's not going to make his move until the right moment. In the past, people have gone up in strength and mass against the deceptively small Brother, and all have died for their recklessness. Brother Mouzone is not Ziggy Sobotka, but Omar is a different kind of predator. The next day, Frank returns to the Hiring Hall where he is eyed up with surprise by stevedores waiting around outside on the possibility of work. Inside, Frank sees on the whiteboard that three ships are in, and heads over to Nat Coxson and tells him it's a good day for a ship. Nat - reading The Baltimore Sun which has Frank and Horseface's faces on the front page - deliberately refuses to look at Frank, telling him that this is the Hiring Hall and only for actual working stevedores. Frank - who told his lawyers he needed to get clean - turns to Big Roy and demands he hand over his card, and a tiny stevedore asks why he wants his card. "Not you," says Frank, turning to the much larger man beside him, whose name is also Roy - "Little Big Roy" to be exact. Little Big Roy was going to work the Cape Saint George today, but Frank insists, he'll work it for him. Little Big Roy has no idea what he means, and Frank explains that he'll work the ship, Little Big Roy can work a bar stool, and at the end of the week, Little Big Roy will get paid. Seeing the logic in this, Little Big Roy hands over the card and Frank heads over to sign on, telling the clerk who notes the photograph discrepancy that "we're both bald and we're both Polacks, what's the difference?" Everybody chuckles at this, even Nat Coxson, and Frank takes the receipt and hands Little Big Roy his card back, then heads outside. Frank wants to get clean, and so for the first time in a long time he's going to do the thing that generations of stevedores took pride in over the decades at the Baltimore Docks - he's going to spend a day in hard, physical labor. On the docks, two of the stevedores note Frank unloading a can, bemused and slightly contemptuous at seeing work from a checker. Bunk and McNulty watch Spiros leave his house, expensively dressed for a change, his home small but elegant - tasteful and understated. McNulty takes a guess at the designer and Bunk takes pleasure in educating the "just rolled out of bed looking motherfucker", leading to the wonderful exchange of,"You know what they call a guy who pays that much attention to his clothes, don't you?" "Mmhmmm, a grown-up." As Spiros leaves, they put through the call to Greggs and Beadie in the other car, and the two women head out after Spiros. He drives to into Central Baltimore, Bunk and McNulty pulling up outside and taking photos as Spiros leaves the parking garage. Beadie follows him on foot, having been given advice by Greggs to make use of the city so as not to be so obvious about following him. Despite her lack of experience, Beadie does an admirable job, using a security mirror to watch Spiros from around a corner and catching him pausing momentarily, which allows her to avoid turning the corner and walking right into him. She follows him to the Hyatt hotel (far nicer than where Brother Mouzone is staying), watched by Bunk and McNulty who comment on how much she has improved as police since coming onto the case. She pauses in the lobby when she sees him entering the lift, but decides to run the risk and rushes in before the doors can close, offering a,"Thank you!" while facing forward so she doesn't have to look at him. It's common elevator behavior, nothing that would raise suspicion, but her heart is probably racing a mile a minute as she stands there. Vondas stands back, but any chance he mist be suspicious are rather hilariously dispelled when instead of acting paranoid or uncertain, he actually takes advantage of the way she is standing to check out her rear end.  Beadie is in a bit of a bind now though, she can't push a higher floor button or else she won't be able to leave the lift when he does, but as she's standing in front of him she'll have to get out before him so how can she follow him? She finds an admirable solution, distractedly rummaging through her purse and making no move to exit when the lift doors open. Vondas stays back to allow her to leave, and when he realizes she's lost in her own little world he stifles his frustration and moves past her. She waits a moment and then steps out, passing behind Vondas but continuing down the other corridor without a second look at him, able to see him from the mirror on the wall. He stops and looks back, confused at seeing the woman from the lift so close behind him, but she's already gone and clearly not somebody to be concerned about, so he continues on. Waiting for him to be out of sight of the mirror, she heads back and pops her head around the corner, spotting him entering a room. She puts through the call to Greggs, Vondas is on the 5th floor, but rather than returning to the lobby she continues down the corridor and past the room, getting the number and continuing on with a satisfied smile on her face - the thrill of actual policework. Frank finishes the last item in one can and quickly moves to the other, but is offered no assistance when he tries to pass down a box to another stevedore. Accepting the alienation, he clambers down, watched with some fascination by Nat Coxson. In the parking garage, Greggs gets the word from Beadie that Vondas and another man are leaving the hotel, who then lets McNulty and Bunk know. They watch as Beadie leaves first, and then takes a photo of Vondas and a white haired man with a briefcase chatting amicably on the threshold. They're excited, they think they've got a shot of The Boss Man at last, and they're right... kind of. Vondas is talking to somebody we've never seen before - possibly a lawyer, maybe another connection or potential customer, but as they chat, The Greek passes by behind them, lighting a cigarette, neither Detective any the wiser that one of the actual true Kingpins of the Baltimore drug trade is right in front of them. Spiros and the other man head to the parking garage but Vondas gets into a different car to the one he took, a driver already waiting. They leave, and Greggs realizes that he's not coming back for the Benz. She leaves, and as she collects her parking receipt The Greek casually passes by, once again neither of them any the wiser of the presence/identity of the other.   This is how it is with The Greek, he's hidden in plain sight. On the Cape Saint George, Nat Coxson actually speaks directly to Frank and looks him in the eye... and more importantly, he's friendly. This is not to say he's forgiven Frank, but he obviously appreciates Frank's attempts to "get clean". He notes that is isn't as easy as it looks, and Frank retorts that nothing is. Nat even makes friendly banter, asking if he knows how the stevedore "Moonsot" got his name, and laughs happily at Frank's,"Yeah, and I could give a gently caress!" answer. At the Detail Office, Pearlman looks over the results of their surveillance of Spiros and asks who the hotel room was registered too. It's a Stephen Rados from Northwest DC, and Beadie wonders if that was the man in the well-tailored suit. The others aren't quite as optimistic, presumably thinking it was a fake name, and Daniels moves on to White Mike, who is their only tangible progress on the raids so far. For once Pearlman is able to offer quite a bit, if White Mike rolls on the higher-ups, he can walk with nothing but a VERY long probation, and if things go high enough they can get him witness protection. Beadie, on a high from her active involvement in actual policework, is all over that - White Mike walks? A drug-dealer walks? The others don't see the problem or are amused, but this is a smaller scale recreation of exactly the same scene from season one, when McNulty, Freamon and Daniels were aghast at the notion of letting Avon and Stringer walk in exchange for getting at the likes of Clay Davis. Beadie isn't done though, what about Frank Sobotka? Pearlman says that the Feds took a crack at him and got nothing, and Beadie suggests that SHE have a go, they know that he knows more and she thinks she might be able to convince him to turn. Daniels seems bemused at her piss and vinegar, so does McNulty but in a far more encouraging way - she's probably the only one of them that would have a chance, and Frank - sidelined in the Detail's eyes for quite some time now - could be the key to breaking open the case. Pearlman gives Beadie the go-ahead on the proviso she make no offer, only Pearlman can legally do that. Beadie is straight up, ready to head out the door, and McNulty asks if she'll go to his home. She corrects him - she'll go to the Union Hall, THAT is his home. At Frank's "home", a nervous Bruce DiBiago has been waiting for Frank and wants to get the hell out of there - Frank is poison now, and as a lobbyist he can't allow himself to be tied to a scandal for any longer than absolutely necessary. An eager Frank says he just wants to settle up their business and grabs for more money from his shoebox (presumably the police's search warrant was for Frank alone, and didn't include the right to search the office). But Bruce stops him, telling him with unusual directness for a lobbyist that the grain pier is dead - the dream is over. Frank is horrified, he understands that he is dirty and untouchable, but none of the politicians they bought are voting for HIM, they're voting for the cause, for the grain pier, for the Union! Bruce lays it out on the line though, now that the Feds are involved, the politicians and legislators are terrified that they could be next in the firing line. The only "solace" that Bruce can offer is that if Frank can beat the Feds and get them off his back, they could come back during the next legislative session and there would be people down there who would owe him "a vote or 2". Frank's face is fixed with cold fury, masking his deep despair - EVERYTHING he has done, every compromise of his moral values, everything he has smuggled through, those dead women in the can (if he even remembers them at this point)... it means nothing. It was all for nothing. As Bruce leaves, Frank stops him with a horribly accurate observation,"You know what the trouble is, Brucie? We used to make poo poo in this country, build poo poo. Now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket."   While Frank's world falls apart, The Greek's seems surprisingly stable. At a Greek Restaurant, The Greek has dinner with a troubled Vondas, pleasantly dismissing the waitress and asking for assurances that their people are strong. Vondas agrees, they could try to get them out before the trial but if they don't, they will all remain quiet. The Greek is satisfied, but on one issue he is quite adamant - the Sobotkas. They've caused too many problems and he wants to make sure they will cause no more - the implication clear. On this, Spiros disagrees, and yet it is here that he becomes his most relaxed, perhaps because he knows what works with The Greek and what does not. He sees disposing of Frank (and Nick) as causing more problems than it would solve, and asks The Greek if they can be spared if he guarantees their silence. Conversationally, The Greek notes that Spiros can NOT guarantee this, but Spiros has a solution - Frank's son "the idiot" who shot Glekas is going to trial, and the prosecutor wants to use the young clerk who was shot as a witness. Spiros knows the family and they will keep the clerk quiet, and thus Frank will save his son from life in prison... and if they are the ones to save his son, then Frank would never speak out against them. What of Nick though? Spiros assures The Greek that Nick is "the idiot's" cousin and wants nothing more than Ziggy's freedom too, and The Greek finally sees the cause for Spiros' hesitation to kill them - he has grown fond of Nick. Spiros admits it is true, as we've seen ourselves, he's always had a kind of bemused approval of Nick, perhaps for his loyalty, perhaps for being mostly level-headed, maybe even because he saw him as somebody to groom. The Greek chides him playfully, he should have had a son, and laughs happily when Spiros admits that to do so, he would have also had to have a wife. Herc and Carver are waiting outside Louis Sobotka's home, tired and fed up of long stake-outs and nothing else on the Detail. Herc complains he will take it personally if Nick hasn't posted by midnight, and Carver quips that the shitbird lives in his parent's basement... where the gently caress is he going to run? They both burst out laughing, but there they are, waiting in that car. At the cheap motel, Lamar spots two women arrive, but what really interests him is the small dog they have with them. They come up the stairs laughing, confused about where "Darnell" is, and ask Lamar if he's a friend? Is this where the party is? They wanna get their smoke on? Lamar tells them they've got the wrong place, but his guard is down thanks to the dog, who he happily chats to, kneeling down to pet it.... and Omar comes up behind him and cold-cocks him, knocking him clean out. The women are Kimmy and Tosha, the dog is Butchie's from the bar, and Omar has used his surveillance well, using the regular sight of hookers and Lamar's love of dogs to get in under his guard. With Lamar out, Omar steps up to the motel door and gives Lamar's knock, and Brother Mouzone comes straight to the door, his guard down for once... and pays for it. Omar kicks the door in as it is opened, knocking Mouzone off-balance, and immediately fires into Mouzone's side, knocking him flat on his back. Closing the door behind him to make this long-sought for revenge private, Omar places one hand up to shield from blood and prepares to kill Brother Mouzone... but first he wants him to know WHY he is doing it. But Mouzone makes no pleas, no cries for help, simply lays on his back and stares in pain but otherwise unmoved by Omar's presence. Omar asks if he wants to know why, and Mouzone is uninterested, more concerned for Lamar's well-being. Omar tells him about Brandon, and makes a very interesting statement in response to Mouzone's comment that "the game is the game" - Brandon was beautiful. That, more than anything else, seems to be the central point of Omar's rage - he had something beautiful in a life filled mostly with cruelty and despair, and it horrified him to see that beauty so wantonly destroyed. Mouzone takes this all in and then laughs, a year ago? Then it couldn't have been him, he had nothing to do with Brandon's death. Omar angrily claims Mouzone is lying to live, but Mouzone calmly states he is at peace with God, so if Omar is going to kill him, just kill him. He lays there, quietly mouthing words that may be a prayer, and Omar prepares to shoot... and he can't do it. This isn't what he was after, Mouzone's words ring true, and Omar realizes that he has been played by Stringer. Observing that the bullet went right through Mouzone, he makes amends for his mistake by picking up the phone and dialing 911, reporting the shot and giving the motel name and room number. With that, he's gone, disappearing into the night and leaving the legendary Brother Mouzone bleeding on a cheap hotel floor. Stringer's strategy was sound, it was the only way to conceivably rid himself of Mouzone's interfering presence, but now Omar's desire for revenge against him has been rejuvenated - he's traded one legendary killer for another... and Brother Mouzone is still alive too.   At the Union Hall, Frank sits at his desk drinking and considering the loss of everything he has ever worked for, the loss of his son, the loss of his family, his self-respect. Beadie arrives and he puts his game-face back on, throwing his wrists together and asking if she has come to cuff him and take him in again. Beadie doesn't come at him as a police officer though, she comes at him as a friend, perhaps the one thing he needs most in the world right now. She asks him just to talk to her, telling him she knows all this didn't happen overnight, and seats herself across for him to hear his confession. Frank laughed off the need for a confession in the first episode, but now he NEEDS to be clean, and Beadie knows it. Tearful (but truthfully so) she tells him she'd like him to come in, not in cuffs, but because HE wants to - she's opening a door for him. She hands over Pearlman's card and explains she can't promise him anything, but please just come in and they'll start from there. Frank fights back tears, so does she, and she tells him the one thing he's probably wanted to hear for quite some time now - he's better than those he got into bed with. The next morning, a tired McNulty and Bunk sit outside of Vondas' home, but there has been no sign of him all night. McNulty jokes that Vondas may have gotten lucky, and Bunk grunts that maybe THEY didn't. Where is Vondas? At a park meeting with Nick Sobotka watching kids play hockey. Friendly, fatherly, Vondas settles down on the park bench beside him and tells him that everything is going to be all right. Nick is despondent and resigned to his fate, knowing he never would have found Vondas again if he hadn't reached out to him to meet, complaining he should never have gotten involved with them. Vondas smiles and assures him there is nothing wrong with trying to make something of yourself, and it's not all over yet, but Nick reminds him that while he's currently freely moving about, technically he has been busted, as is his uncle and whole Union... and Ziggy too. Vondas remains supremely confident, acting as if none of this worries him, wanting to put across to Nick that same confidence, and assures him that they can take care of Ziggy too. Nick knows there are limits, though, Ziggy is gone and there is nothing that can be done about it... till Vondas calmly hands him a passport. Nick opens it and discovers it is Vondas'... but in a different name. "Many names, many passports," smiles Vondas, taking it back,"We can do many things." Nick feels a horrible glimmer of hope, a disbelieving belief that maybe there is a way out after all, a way to avoid the consequences of their actions. What can they do for Ziggy? Vondas smiles and places his hand on the side of Nick's face, telling him that they reward loyalty.  Look at the pathetic gratitude on his face. This is how they get you - notwithstanding Nick's own culpability, it's Vondas who got Nick into all this trouble, and yet now Vondas tells him he'll get him out of the mess and all Nick can do is be grateful that he knows a guy like Vondas who can help him. But while Vondas is working on securing Nick's loyalty, Frank is finally getting clean. He's arrived at the Detail Office, and sits at the table with Daniels, Pearlman, Fitzhugh, Beadie and Freamon, directly in front of the notice-board with his own face on it, wanting to know what they can do for him. Pearlman tells him she wants to know what HE wants first, so there are no illusions on either side, and he lays it out straight - what can they do for Ziggy and what can they do for Nick? Ziggy HAS to go to prison, there is no doubt of that, but Pearlman agrees she'll get him moved to a county facility, a far more agreeable place than where he currently is. As for Nick? If he and Frank both cooperate, they will only serve straight probation, no jailtime at all. Frank nods, this was the best he could hope for, but Daniels reminds him that what they can or can't do depends on what he gives them. What can he give them? EVERYTHING. He has dirt on everybody and he's willing to dish it out, including on himself, so long as Ziggy and Nick are taken care of. It's an act of martyrdom to help him feel better, but regardless of the reason he's given them the 14 murders, he's giving them The Greek, he's giving them everything... except the Union, he won't say anything against the Union. And here is where it all goes wrong. Remember last episode when the police were frantically typing up paperwork for their raids while The Greek's men removed every piece of evidence from their Warehouse and Glekas' store? Now Pearlman stops Frank before he can spill the beans because Frank MUST have a lawyer present before they can take his statement. Frank is surprised, he was ready to let it all out right then and there, but Pearlman tells him the lawyer has to be present, so he can get one and they'll do this all tomorrow. It's a real necessity, of course, any statement he made without a lawyer could (and would) be thrown out as evidence in a trial, and Frank could be killed or change his mind (or be made to change it) in the meantime - but you can see how people get frustrated at the slow-moving mechanism of the legal system. Frank gets up to leave, and Freamon asks him one last question - why did he stop using his cellphone? Frank, bemused, says that they flagged it, did they think he didn't know? He leaves, and they all exchange amused glances. To the tune of a Greek love song (εφυγε εφυγε), a brief montage plays showing The Greek, Vondas and Rados eat at the restaurant and toast each other happily; Horseface cleans up the shipping can office and takes a call from Nick, handing it over to Frank; Vondas tears up his passport and accepts a new one from The Greek; Fitzhugh faxes his notes on the investigation to the FBI; and finally Frank meets with Nick. Nick has been given a piece of paper with the meeting place - The Key Bridge - and Nick presumes it is because it is an open area, impossible to bug. He tries to explain to Frank the scope of The Greek's organization, which none of them have really understood up to this point, but Frank isn't impressed. He accuses Nick of dealing in heroin, demanding to know what he was thinking but then blaming himself - he's the one who got Nick involved, and he should be old enough to know better - he's flushed away his family for nothing. He points out a building out on the docks and asks Frank if he knows what is? The answer? It's a condominium. Frank has bitterly accepted the truth, the grain pier is done, this whole area is going to be developed for rich people and the workers and residents are going to lose their jobs and be priced out of the place that has been their home for generations. So Frank is going to get what revenge he can, and he's going to get it on The Greek - he's going to work with the police and give up everything he knows. But Nick hits Frank in the one place Frank can be got - the meeting is about Ziggy, they can convince the kid who was shot to testify that Glekas was the one with the gun, that Ziggy killed in self-defense... Ziggy could walk away free and clear. Frank allows himself a brief moment of hope but then his natural suspicions kick in, what do they want in return? Loyalty is the answer, and as the music starts up again Frank lets out his rage, kicking and clasping at the chain-link fence (Nick will echo this in the next episode) as he rages against the unfairness of being offered this irresistible thing so soon after deciding to get clean. Like an addict, Frank is already justifying it in his own head, bargaining, making the decision that gives him immediate satisfaction. Like the compromise he made after the dead women were discovered in the shipping can, he's already capitulating in his own self-interest. He tells Nick he will meet them to "hear them out" even though he's clearly already made the decision to go along with them. But on one thing he won't be swayed, Nick will NOT come with him, he doesn't want Nick involved with The Greeks anymore, and is furious when Nick starts bringing up Spiros. Maybe he understands now the frustration that Louis felt with Nick's idolizing of "Uncle Frank with the big shoulders". The montage continues with The Greek, Spiros and the muscle arriving at the bridge; Fitzhugh's report arrives at the FBI; Frank drives towards the meeting smoking a cigarette; Fitzhugh's report is handed out to be transcribed; and Frank arrives at the bridge, the Greek in the distance as the transcript is sent out... and triggers the Confidential Source Monitor in Agent Koutris' office... and there he sees a name he never expected to see - "The Greek", linked directly to the dead women. The Greek receives an urgent phonecall and listens in to the unheard Koutris, then hangs up and calmly tells Spiros that his plan will not work. Spiros closes his eyes briefly, then shrugs, he tried. The episode ends with an image that has haunted me ever since I first saw it, one of the most powerful and deeply depressing things I have ever seen/felt from a television program: Frank Sobotka walking unknowingly to his death. 
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May 23, 2013 12:30
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This is probably my favorite montage in the entire series, the first time around I didn't think much of it, but on the re-watch it kind of hit me full force, a genuine Greek tragedy. It's not often the show does much with music that isn't diegetic but I'm glad they did it here, it works perfectly.
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May 23, 2013 16:56
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Yeah, I love that montage too, they picked the perfect song for it. True story; for my first run through this show, I lost track of my progress and accidentally watched the episodes out of order, and watched the beginning of the next episode before realizing that I'd skipped this one. Let's just say it opens with a bit of a spoiler! It's not that bad though; like Jerusalem says in his recap, knowing what's going to happen to Frank makes that last scene all the more hard-hitting.
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May 23, 2013 17:10
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This episode is stellar. I know people really like the Ziggy killing scene but the whole him and Frank in prison is properly one of the best acted things I have ever seen. Also that end shot is fantastic, at least Frank gets to keep his head and hands! If only Brother and Omar could have had their own mini series together! There stand off is another great moment of the show! Good job
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May 23, 2013 17:45
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I can only assume when Chris Bauer's name gets brought up in casting meetings its in the context of "We REALLY need someone in this part that is going to feel like a real person, who's so good that its hard to tell they're even acting?" My first exposure to him was the show Third Watch where I remember specifically noticing that he felt like a real husband of female cop. I had never known a real one, but his character just felt so genuine compared to a lot of the other characters on that show. Its great to watch The Wire where he gets to do his thing along with other people that are really loving good at what they do. Not that I'm down on Third Watch, but obviously these two shows can barely be said to be in the same genre.
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May 23, 2013 18:46
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It's interesting how I never noticed until a couple rewatches that the bit with Frank needing a lawyer for the proffer was unrealistic. It's true that he would have needed a lawyer but they never should have let him out of the detail office until the lawyer got there regardless. Apparently this was deliberately unrealistic.
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May 23, 2013 19:42
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And this episode also acts as the introduction to one of the subtlest running 'gags' (if you can even call it that) in the series: one of the writers sure loves his/her strawberry soda.  For some reason, the few times sodas are mentioned, it's always strawberry that gets asked. The first instance is in this episode, with White Mike asking for one to go with his hot dogs. The other two instances: Randy asking Dukie to get him a strawberry drink when he's delivering Carcetti flyers (and the rest of his crew weasels out of it) and Marlo asking for a strawberry soda to go with the lunch order that Freamon and Sydnor intercept on their illegal wire.There's most likely nothing to this. It's just a thing I noticed.
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May 23, 2013 20:17
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I noticed that too, but I guess I just assumed it was a Baltimore thing or something.
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May 23, 2013 20:37
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I live in Baltimore and you can get a strawberry soda sure, but its not like a big thing that people know about like lake trout for instance. Its just one of the kinds of soda on the shelf.
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May 23, 2013 21:12
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ally_1986 posted:This episode is stellar. I know people really like the Ziggy killing scene but the whole him and Frank in prison is properly one of the best acted things I have ever seen. Agreed here. Ziggy in prison, walking into a group of men way bigger and badder than him, his father watching him dissapear into a system he knows will eat him alive...harrowing. This is the scene I point to most often when rubes point to this season as "extraneous" or "a distraction" (a conversation I have often). I talk about Ziggy in jail and say "this is where the show goes from an above average cop show to a novel about the death of the American dream". Most disagree. It's sad.
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May 23, 2013 23:12
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I really wish I could better articulate my feelings on the abandonment of the working man (and woman!), because holy God does it come through strong in The Wire, particularly in this season. Other seasons show us the cost of the War on Drugs, the nightmare that is the school system, the "game" of politics etc but the overall theme for me is in how a gigantic section of the population has been abandoned/let-down in modern day America. Season 2 just brings it into a tighter focus. The "bootstraps" mentality, the idea that people just need to get over it and make something of themselves is such bullshit because it assumes everything is in isolation. The upper class reaped the benefits of generations of hardworking working-class people before wholesale abandoning them the moment that automation became a cheaper option. Yes that lead to increased efficiencies, less workplace injuries and cut down on (some forms of) corruption... but you can't just expect a massive group of people who have spent their whole lives immersed in a particular culture/with a set of beliefs to just accept change overnight and move on. Look back across the season - McNulty and Diggins both point out factories where their fathers worked, part of the glorified working man culture of Baltimore, and both were laid off decades before this season began. For McNulty and Diggins, there is still pride associated with what their fathers used to be, but the plants and their owners have long since moved on, for them it was only ever about the bottom line. Spiros notes "They used to make steel?" to Frank, pointing out a long closed-down factory, making the point that Frank can't find the absolution/salvation he seeks through honest work and labor anymore. Frank himself lays it out to Bruce DiBiago,"We used to make poo poo in this country." David Simon's "we weren't born to be niggers" bit in The Corner is a hell of a gut-punch to read, and I think it applies equally to the poor white working class we see in season 2. These are guys with pride in their work and even more pride in their history of work, but it's a thing of the past, something that no longer exists. What happens when you abandon a huge chunk of the population who have never known anything but one way of life, and leave them to sink or swim on their own? You get people turning to drugs, people turning their rage and confusion inward or outward (domestic abuse, crime, violence, alcoholism etc) and then people cluck and shake their heads and say,"These people are scum, why don't they get a real job?" This is not to excuse the actions of the likes of Nick Sobotka, but it does go a long way towards explaining them. Aimee doesn't care about Nick's family past on the docks, she cares about the present and future of them and their child, their current family. Nick can't let go of the past, in his efforts to hold onto what was, he's missing out on what is (McNulty faces a similar predicament). As an aside, something I neglected to mention it in the write-up - how horrible is it that the first time we see Aimee in the same room as Louis and Joan, it's when the police have raided the house and FORCED them into the same room together? This kind of rambled, as I noted I struggle to articulate this notion adequately, but the theme of abandonment comes across strongly and is a pretty huge deal to me, and I'd love to see some discussion on it.
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May 23, 2013 23:25
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I think I may have just found one of the more interesting Wire actor crossovers. My wife wanted to watch Serendipity, and near the middle of the movie, John Cusack begs for help from a young temp working in an apartment leasing office. What's weird is that I wouldn't probably recognize him from the picture, but once you see his mannerisms it's a dead giveaway.
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May 24, 2013 01:33
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clockworx posted:I think I may have just found one of the more interesting Wire actor crossovers. My wife wanted to watch Serendipity, and near the middle of the movie, John Cusack begs for help from a young temp working in an apartment leasing office. Heh, good ol' Leo Fitzpatrick. He was in Kids, wasn't he? Also agreed-- Chris Bauer is tremendous. I've seen him play a wide variety of roles, and he's nailed every single one of them. Terrible write-up Jerusalem. No, no it was great, as always. What a tremendous episode, too. You can almost feel Frank's frustration when he starts assaulting the fence, when he's learned about the Greeks' proposition for Ziggy. The scene is so palpable, so poignant, so... loving real. escape artist fucked around with this message at 02:35 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 02:33
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Isnt Kids that movie about a bunch of kids getting HIV/AIDS? And hes the dick who gets it and keeps on loving?
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May 24, 2013 06:55
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SpookyLizard posted:Isnt Kids that movie about a bunch of kids getting HIV/AIDS? And hes the dick who gets it and keeps on loving? Well he got the bug man.
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May 24, 2013 07:15
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One of the biggest mistakes in the Wire is that we never see anything more of Ziggy. HIs story wasn't completely over, and I think the perspective of someone incarcerated for life (who wasn't a career solider like Bey) would have been interesting.
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May 24, 2013 07:20
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There's not really any way he coulda fit into the show after season 2 was over, is there? We saw some of the inside of prison from Avon and Weebay's perspectives because they were important characters to what was going on outside with the rest of the characters, but there's not much way I can think Ziggy would matter to anyone post-season 2.
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May 24, 2013 07:32
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the black husserl posted:One of the biggest mistakes in the Wire is that we never see anything more of Ziggy. HIs story wasn't completely over, and I think the perspective of someone incarcerated for life (who wasn't a career solider like Bey) would have been interesting. Would Zig even get a life sentence? It seriously seems one of those second degree, psychotic rage-kill type of deals.
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May 24, 2013 08:01
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I don't think it would have added anything really to have him appear again, we know all we really need to know about his fate. Nick's cameo in season 5 works, as does Randy's, because we see the end result of the environment they chose and were forced to stay in respectively, but I don't really see what would be gained from showing Ziggy. We know life is going to be hell for him in prison, do we really need any more?
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May 24, 2013 08:06
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Wait, Nick makes a cameo in season 5?  I remember the scene at the homeless areas with Johnny 50 but when did Nick show up?
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May 24, 2013 09:23
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BattleCake posted:Wait, Nick makes a cameo in season 5? Carcetti's at some public opening of that housing thing they were planning earlier in the series for the pier, the one that would lessen jobs. Nick is in the back of the crowd, drunk I think, he starts yelling about how they're loving him and other dock workers over, I don't remember exactly what he said. I do remember what Carcetti's man said afterwards though, Carcetti asked "Who's that?" to which dude replied "Nobody," which pretty much extends to all blue collar workers.  edit: Here you go, Nick wasn't drunk apparently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY38Y0BJ9bc HoneyBoy fucked around with this message at 09:39 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 09:32
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What makes that scene great is it's the perfect encapsulation of what happened to the Democratic party in America as well.
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May 24, 2013 11:36
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Little Big Roy, Nat and New Charles are also in that scene.
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May 24, 2013 20:54
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You know, it never even occurred to me until this writeup that with Frank dead, Ziggy probably never got moved out to county.
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May 24, 2013 21:12
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Randomly Specific posted:You know, it never even occurred to me until this writeup that with Frank dead, Ziggy probably never got moved out to county. Rhonda told Nick that they would honor the same terms of the deal with Frank, so he may very well may have.
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May 24, 2013 21:50
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Jerusalem posted:David Simon's "we weren't born to be niggers" bit in The Corner is a hell of a gut-punch to read, and I think it applies equally to the poor white working class we see in season 2. These are guys with pride in their work and even more pride in their history of work, but it's a thing of the past, something that no longer exists. What happens when you abandon a huge chunk of the population who have never known anything but one way of life, and leave them to sink or swim on their own? You get people turning to drugs, people turning their rage and confusion inward or outward (domestic abuse, crime, violence, alcoholism etc) and then people cluck and shake their heads and say,"These people are scum, why don't they get a real job?"
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May 24, 2013 22:11
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| # ? Apr 18, 2024 15:22 |
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To rich white people, 'cultural' means 'I dont care, its not happening somewhere important (where other rich white people are'
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May 24, 2013 22:35
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