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3spades
Mar 20, 2003

37! My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!

Customer: In a row?

Randomly Specific posted:

You know, it never even occurred to me until this writeup that with Frank dead, Ziggy probably never got moved out to county.

escape artist posted:

Rhonda told Nick that they would honor the same terms of the deal with Frank, so he may very well may have.

Don't they show a glimpse of Ziggy in jail in the season ending montage being moved along with mostly white guys? Quite a different scene from the city jail holding room.

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ScipioAfro
Feb 21, 2011
In the ending montage for this season there are 3 shots in succession which are incredibly evocative, and manage to bring into focus so many of the seasons points about race and class that your talking about now, it loving floors me every time.

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 years!
Hair Elf
I'm working on that write-up for S3E01 if you guys are still down with that.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Do it! S3is amazing and kicks off the whole Avon/Marlo war. That season ratchets up like crazy.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

3Romeo posted:

I'm working on that write-up for S3E01 if you guys are still down with that.

Absolutely, I'm looking forward to seeing it, especially in relation to the Iraq War stuff. I still can't believe I didn't notice until this watch-through Bodie's line about their (inferior) "WMDs" being just as good as the (genuine) "Bin Ladens" that the previous crew were selling on the same corner. I can't wait to see other things I might have missed.

Last episode write-up for this season will go up sometime on Saturday (maybe Sunday if there is a delay).

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Jerusalem posted:

I really wish I could better articulate my feelings on the abandonment of the working man (and woman!), because holy God does it come through strong in The Wire, particularly in this season. Other seasons show us the cost of the War on Drugs, the nightmare that is the school system, the "game" of politics etc but the overall theme for me is in how a gigantic section of the population has been abandoned/let-down in modern day America. Season 2 just brings it into a tighter focus.

Systemic risk.

Systemic risk is a finance term for the risk of the entire loving system completely collapsing. You can't hedge against it, you can't insure against it, and when it goes, it goes big. The mortgage crisis was systemic risk. It's really a euphemism for the failure of capitalism, ie. the risk of the system failing. A way to bring Marx into the discussion without bringing *Marx* into the discussion. If a systemic risk exists, well, you flip a coin often enough, it's going to come up on its sides eventually. Basically, things will fall the gently caress apart and nobody who knows anything even denies it anymore, they just cover it with fancy words. So what gives?

Ever seen a business model that takes into account the long term effects the layoffs from that closed factory will have on the economic climate? Of course not. At best that'd be designated an externality, ie. outside of the model/system. Probably though nobody would even think about it. In other words, such things never factor into the decision. It's part tragedy of the commons, part short termism and part gently caress you got mine. Even government is rarely convinced to do the right and decent thing by sensible long term economic arguments such as having a decent safety net lowers crime in a way that is much cheaper than putting more funding into the police and building yet another prison.

You see systemic risk every day. Systemic risk is that single mom working multiple jobs and still not making the bills. Systemic risk is that long term unemployed blue collar worker with no prospects and no future. Systemic risk is that college graduate hundreds of thousands into debt with a best case scenario of being debt free by 50, but probably can't even get a job in her field because she has no experience. Systemic risk is that junkie ripping up a copper wire for another hit. Systemic risk is that homeless man you step over on the way to work. It's these people society has chosen to abandon. The ones who don't fit the models anymore and are thus assumed for the sake of the models not to exist. But models are simplifications of reality, and the reality is, they still exist, and nobody cares.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 11:28 on May 26, 2013

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Orange Devil posted:

The ones who don't fit the models anymore and are thus assumed for the sake of the models not to exist. But models are simplifications of reality, and the reality is, they still exist, and nobody cares.

Thanks, this articulates things really nicely for me. It's deeply depressing, and your comments about Marx hit home for me since the entire time I was making that inarticulate rant, I was trying to resist saying things that people would pigeonhole as communism/Marxism and then just dismiss because "Marx is bad".

grading essays nude
Oct 24, 2009

so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life
Great little touch I noticed from this episode. I think the opening scene where Frank drives down to the union office is the only time we see his house. Perfect, since the episode is all about Frank realizing the damage his lifestyle has done to his family. Also pairs well with Beadie's line about the union hall effectively being his house.

Another little sad detail I always love (wrong word but you know) during the montage, don't think it was mentioned, is Vondas ripping up the fake passport he showed Nick during the dinner with the Greek, and then opening up a new one. Really hammers home how powerful they are.

grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 06:23 on May 26, 2013

grading essays nude
Oct 24, 2009

so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life

Jerusalem posted:

Thanks, this articulates things really nicely for me. It's deeply depressing, and your comments about Marx hit home for me since the entire time I was making that inarticulate rant, I was trying to resist saying things that people would pigeonhole as communism/Marxism and then just dismiss because "Marx is bad".

It's interesting how this season, which is maybe the single most depressing ending next to season 4 (which at least had the lone bright spot of Namond escaping) is also the one that most directly deals with capitalism, with its main villain directly meant to symbolize it. I once heard a criticism of the show that its impossible to really enjoy it on a deep level unless you're already a liberal and I think this season embodies that the most.

Randomly Specific
Sep 23, 2012

My keys are somewhere in there.

escape artist posted:

Rhonda told Nick that they would honor the same terms of the deal with Frank, so he may very well may have.

Oooooh yeah, I forgot about that. I already rewatched once when we started this, looks like I need to rewatch again.

Siiiigh.

grading essays nude
Oct 24, 2009

so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life
Watching the last episode of season 2 now. This might have been another case of dramatic liberty (like how Frank was inexplicably let out of the detail office) but how the hell did Frank's lawyers not know that Ziggy had signed a confession? I know that he was still trying to hire a criminal lawyer for Ziggy just before he was arrested but still.

Also haha, Santangelo complains to McNulty that letting Bubbles go will gently caress up his arrest stats. Nice foreshadowing for what season 3 will emphasize, how deep the stats game runs.

grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 06:57 on May 26, 2013

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Season 2, Episode 12: Port in a Storm

The Greek posted:

Business. Always Business.

Early morning in Baltimore, and Ott appears out of the Shipping Can Office, perhaps looking for Frank, maybe just wanting to get a read on the weather. A couple of passing stevedores ask about the lateness of a ship due in and he tells them it's been delayed by a squall. Nick Sobotka goes to Frank's house to see him and find out what happened with the meeting with The Greek, but there is no answer at the door (Frank's wife probably in a drug-induced sleep) so he leaves - where could Frank be? Ott is joined by Johnny 50, La-La, Horseface and others, watching as a Marine unit (piloted by Claude Diggins) pulls in something out of the water. Nick arrives at Key Bridge and finds Frank's truck is still there, but there is no sign of his uncle. He heads down to the docks, arriving in time to see stevedores rushing down to see what the Marine Unit has brought in, all of them rubbernecking as a dead body is lifted out of the water by crane and settled down on the ground - who is it? A suicide? Somebody they know? The cloth covering the body is parted to reveal... Frank Sobotka, neck slit (by Vondas?). They check for signs of life as a formality, but Frank is dead, and Diggins puts in the call for Homicide, while the assembled stevedores (including Nick) stare down at their dead friend/associate/uncle.



So ends Frank Sobotka, and all his dreams for the Union.

At the Detail office, Daniels is getting up to speed on their progress with Vondas - none. He ditched the car with the GPS tracker on it at the parking garage, he hasn't returned to his home, he isn't using his cellphone, he's in the wind. There is nothing on Rados either other than a driver's license. Its upsetting, but Greggs is optimistic, when Frank Sobotka pops in later today he might be able to give them everything on every single one of them. Beadie lets Freamon know he has a call from homicide, where Landsman has just received faxes of 13 headless/handless corpses found in the mid-Atlantic region, the result of Freamon's intuitive leap from earlier in the season. Landsman lets Freamon know there are over four dozen bodies if he wants to go nationwide, and laughs that they're policing in a culture of moral decline. Freamon asks him to run the faxes over to Southeast and he'll pick them up.

Stringer Bell arrives at the hospital, where a bandaged Lamar is rather sheepishly standing guard over Brother Mouzone's hospital room. Stringer takes a breath and heads inside, where Mouzone is calmly reading a magazine. Stringer declines to sit, he has business to take care of, but he wanted to come and see how Mouzone is doing, and pass on assurances that they have his back to take down whoever did this to him. Mouzone declines that, informing Stringer that he can pass on to Avon that he has no obligation to Mouzone... who in turn now has no obligation to him, their business arrangement is currently over. Stringer, a little off-balance, tries to stay on the script he's prepared in his head, but Mouzone doesn't act or react like the people he is used to, and Stringer makes a huge mistake. Mouzone tells him that he will handle tracking "them" down himself, and Stringer shows genuine surprise, he knows it was just Omar who was after Stringer, and asks Mouzone who came at him. Mouzone, picking up on the surprise, maintains his poker face, but the seed has been planted now - Stringer knows more than he is letting on about the ambush.

At the shipping can office, Nick is seething over Frank's death and finally cracks. Roaring that he's going to kill him, he leaps to his feet and is physically restrained by Horseface, Nat Coxson and La La. He shouts that Frank was always there for them and now he's dead they're not there for him, but they talk sense into him - what exactly is he going to do? Get a gun and play gangster like Ziggy did? Infuriating, frustrated, feeling impotent, Nick can only sit there, wanting to do something but knowing how powerless he really is. The door slams open and his father walks in, Louis Sobotka has lost a brother but he at least knows what must be done - nothing so petty and self-serving as revenge, Nick MUST go to the police and finally face up to the consequences of his actions.



Santangelo is clearing traffic around the site of an OD, many people gathered around as the paramedics work to keep her alive. Bubbles and Johnny are amongst the onlookers, Johnny clearly blasted out of his mind, laughing that "the bomb was the bomb!" when he finds out she OD'ed on a product called "Dirty Bomb". They shuffle away past the ambulance and Bubbles has an idea, he'll jump in and grab supplies form the ambulance - pills, needles, the works. Telling Johnny to keep a lookout, he leaps in and grabs what he can, then leaps out... right into Santangelo, who slams him against the side of ambulance and cuffs him. Bubbles turns and sees Johnny is basically passed out on the side, and grunts,"Good looking-out, Johnny", to which his junkie friend barely manages to nod agreement.

At the docks, Daniels, Bunk and Beadie arrive to meet Landsman and Holley, where Landsman offers a self-deprecating observation that at least this time he thought to call them. Frank's death was not a good one, he was stabbed multiple times before his throat was slit "to make sure", and one can imagine the sudden violent attack as a completely unaware Frank tried to talk about the prospects of saving his son. He did fight back though, sadly dying as he lived - struggling with angry bewilderment against an inevitable and uncaring end. Beadie, who has been enjoying her time as a real police, now finds herself face to face with cold, cruel reality of this kind of work.

Herc and Carver are STILL posted outside Louis Sobotka's house, infuriating that they still haven't seen Nick. Herc wants to just give it up, there is a warrant on Nick so if they don't grab him up, somebody else will or he'll eventually turn himself in. Carver is a little more far-sighted for a change, pointing out that if they grab Nick then they can haul him in and put him in an interrogation room and maybe crack him. If he turns himself in, he'll show up with a lawyer and it'll be harder to get anything from him. Disgusted, Herc tells him he's starting to sound like McNulty, and points out something that is sadly somewhat true - if they stick with the Major Cases Squad that Daniels is setting up, they're ALWAYS going to be the guys sitting stake-outs or surveillance, they'll never get any respect. Once this Detail is over, he's going to go back to Narcotics, try to get into a different squad and find himself a "new rabbi" - somebody to serve under who will help him and assist him in his career. Carver is unsure, though, almost in spite of himself his exposure to actual policework has started to get through to him, and he points out that for all his faults, Daniels is somebody who looks out for his men (remember he saved their asses on the debacle when they went up to the Towers drunk late one night). Herc clearly doesn't believe it, even though he's been saved by Daniels in the past - for Herc, it's all about what have you done for me lately/right now/in the immediate future.

But Daniels is doing just as Carver said right that second. Meeting with Valchek in the Major's office (he's been playing solitaire on his computer :3:), he's come to plead Prez's case and prevent Valchek from ruining a surprisingly promising career. To smooth things over before he brings anything up, he lets Valchek know that they've just come from the docks where Frank Sobotka was found dead. Valchek is surprised, but then declares that if you lay down with gangsters this type of thing will happen, before quietly noting that he "almost" feels sorry for the son of a bitch. Continuing to stroke Valchek's ego, Daniels points out that he was totally right about Sobotka all along, and that the case had strong enough legs that Burrell is making them into a permanent Major Cases Detail. With all these wonderful things noted about Valchek's "intuition" about Frank Sobotka, he finally brings up Prez... after everything Valchek has gained, is he really going to hammer down hard on his son-in-law? drat straight the petty, vindictive little bastard is! Daniels smoothly brings up that after the incident he has everybody write up what they saw, and that they all agree that Prez threw the punch... but that they also all witnessed Valchek's verbal harassment of an inferior officer (calling Prez a shitbird). Now sure, Daniels could get his own men to cheat it, but he can't do anything about those tight-rear end FBI Agents. Valchek is a terrible policeman and a pretty awful human being as well, but one thing he knows well is trade-offs, and he recognizes what Daniels is offering here - the implication of both a threat and a bargain, with the opportunity to save face and look like the bigger man. So with great magnamity, Valchek declares that Prez will spend the next two months working the midnight shift on the desk in the Southeastern. During that time, he will write a letter to every police and FBI witness in which he apologizes for attacking his superior officer and admits that it was a sucker punch and the only reason Valchek didn't kick his rear end was out of respect for his daughter. Then Prez can come to Valchek's office and make the same apology face-to-face, and THEN if he still wants to "piss away his career" he can go to work for Daniels in the Major Cases Detail that has been set up by the Commissioner of Police! During this little speech, Daniels (Valchek is behind him) makes the most amazing expressions with his face as he tries to bite back a smile/laughter, and Valchek has to snap him back to reality after he has finished speaking to let him know it's time for him to leave. Daniels is delighted, Prez was saddled on him in season 1 and proved an early liability, but since then he has shown a knack for paperwork, research and collecting/organizing and laying out the myriad information gathered by the other detectives - he is an asset, and Daniels has just secured him for himself.



At the Southeastern desk where Prez will soon be working the next two months of midnight shifts, an overworked Sergeant is trying to deal with somebody on the phone, hand over Freamon's faxes and deal with the angry elderly polish gentleman who has come over with his son to turn the latter in on a warrant. Lester opens the envelope and leafs through the pictures of dead bodies when he overhears the weary Sergeant finally get to the man trying to turn himself in - Nicholas Sobotka.

Elsewhere, Johnny is still half-passed out and Bubbles is getting frantic as they wait in interrogation when Kima and McNulty arrive. She's bemused and disgusted with Bubbles, he stole morphine from an ambulance? He should feel embarrassed to call her in on that.

Vondas arrives at a motel room guarded by a huge Ukrainian (WWE's Vladimir Kozlov) where the Greek is waiting. Frank's body has surfaced despite being weighted down, but The Greek is untroubled, what has happened has happened and cannot be changed. Vondas admits that Sergei would have done a better job than he did, but points out that Frank's body being found earlier than expected means that Nick will now know what has happened, which makes him a dangerous liability. They have had men watching and waiting for Nick, but the police (Herc and Carver) have also been there constantly, and there has been no sign. In this moment we see the difference between The Greek and Avon Barksdale, and the type of man that Stringer Bell may have dreamed of becoming - he weighs up and the pros and cons of having Nick killed and decides that in the end, it is more trouble than it is worth. Just like that, he gives up any plans to have Nick killed despite everything he knows - The Greek is dangerously pragmatic - he won't kill for no reason, but he also has no issue with killing when he deems it necessary. For him, as Vondas noted in an earlier episode, everything is business. Vondas, who genuinely liked Nick, agrees and notes that though Nick knows his name.... his name is not his name. As for The Greek? All Nick knows about him is that he is called The Greek, and an amused Greek points out that he is not even Greek (somebody posted in a previous thread that he appears to be a Cypriot). Vondas is just as pragmatic, now that the decision has been made, he accepts it and moves on with no objections. So they have to move on? Very well, though there is just a little outstanding business first - a shipment of 150kilos is waiting to be picked up from the docks, but they have nobody to bring it through for them. Vondas admits that he doesn't only miss Sergei, he misses Frank as well - the unspoken implication is that he longs for the happier days of their business arrangement before that small, trifling matter of 14 dead women got in the way. Still, if they can't disappear the cans from the system, maybe they can just have somebody pick up the can and take it out legitimately? The Greek, however, is understandably wary. Everywhere they go nowadays they bump into police, and a disbelieving Vondas asks if he really means to just abandon FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS worth of drugs on the Baltimore Docks. Displaying the cold steel that belies his pleasant old man exterior, The Greek tells him that lambs go to the slaughter, a man knows when to walk away.

Remember that shot of Frank walking to his death at the end of the last episode? :smith:

Near Nick's house, the Muscle that have been waiting with loaded guns to blow him away get the call from Vondas, it's off. They drive away through the rain, right past Herc and Carver who had actually fallen asleep. The headlights wake Herc, who has no idea that potential death was so near.

Daniels, Pearlman, Reese, Fitzhugh and Rawls meet with Commissioner Burrell to bring him up to date on the case, including the now dead Frank's status as a cooperator. So what is left of the case? Nearly everybody caught on the wiretaps have been brought in outside of a couple of people, and they left the Number Two out on the street in the hopes he would lead them to the Number One... but he's currently "out of pocket". What about the Union? Reese notes that without Frank they've only got enough for a couple of subordinates, but for the important thing was always the Union itself - they can now force a change of leadership or the Union will face decertification - the FBI is content with the current situation. Rawls, however, is not - what about his 14 murders? Daniels gets word that Freamon insisted on being put through, so as Daniels takes the call Pearlman reveals to Rawls that Frank was likely to have given them relevant information on the murders as well. Rawls isn't pleased, but he spots a smile on Daniels' face - he's just received news that Nick Sobotka has handed himself in and is willing to flip.

Bubbles is willing too, but he has little to offer Greggs and McNulty to get off the charge he's currently facing. McNulty asks if Bubbles has anything on any murders, and seems almost disappointed to hear that things have been "quiet" on that front lately. Unable to offer any serious information to them, Greggs is fed up and tells Bubbles that this time he's going to jail, horrifying the junkie who starts babbling quickly about all their history - even bringing up how sad he was when she was in hospital and how he was always asking McNulty how she was doing. A bemused McNulty nods at Greggs, and then Johnny finally lifts himself out of his stupor to remind Bubbles of the East Side boy who got shot in the Towers. Bubbles dismisses that, it was just a rat shot, but McNulty is intrigued - what was an East Side dealer doing in the Towers? Bubbles explains that some East Side dealers moved in and there was no violence between them until "this bowtie friend of the family" came in and ran the East Side boys off, telling them this was Avon's turf. So what happened then? Well the "bowtie friend of the family" never came back, the East Side dealers moved back in and everybody is just working side by side without any show of tension - they seem to be sharing the Towers. Now THAT is intriguing.



Nick - with a public defender, the Detail aren't taking any chances - sits in the same place Frank was sitting just a day earlier looking over the chart the Detail put together of The Greek, the dealers, and the dock. He's amazed at how much they already know, and shuts down Pearlman when she tells him he can ask his lawyer if he doesn't understand anything - the only thing he cares about is getting back at The Greek for the death of his Uncle. Pearlman, Daniels, Bunk and Freamon are in attendance, and their first question is just how he knows that it was The Greek's organization that killed Frank, and Nick struggles to admit that he was the one who set up their meeting. Spiros got in touch after people started being arrested, and told him that if Frank kept his mouth shut they would get the kid who was shot by Ziggy to say that Ziggy acted in self-defense, and that Glekas was the one who pulled the gun in the first place. Pearlman tells him that if they killed Frank they probably mean to kill him to, but Nick already knew that - in fact he was SUPPOSED to go with Frank to the meeting, he knows that he should be dead right now too. As he talks, the camera shifts focus from him in the foreground to the image of Frank on the board behind him - Frank was always looking out for Nick. Pearlman moves on to the smuggling and Nick explains that they had no idea it was girls being shipped in - they didn't know what was in there at all. Freamon points out that Nick DID sell drugs that he got from Vondas, however, and Nick takes that in silence, that part of things doesn't fit in to his mindset that The Greek used them. Bunk returns to the table and hands Nick Ziggy's signed statement and the bill of sale from the pawn ship, and Freamon explains that it wouldn't have mattered what the second shooting victim said - Ziggy was going down. Hit by that whammy, Daniels shifts in for the kill - Frank was sitting right where Nick is now ready to give up everything if it would help Ziggy, and Pearlman agrees they're willing to make the same deal with Nick now. He nods and everybody prepares to take notes as he begins speaking - Spiros was the main guy who told Nick and Frank which cans to disappear, and he was the one who supplied Nick with the drugs he was selling. Eton ("The Israeli") handled the drugs and Nick got his re-ups from him until he was passed over to White Mike, and he notes Mike's presence on the board as well. Glekas handled stolen goods, anything they stole from the docks they took to him but he's dead so why waste time on that. He spots Ilona but he has no idea who she is, he moves on to Frank and notes they already know all about him, but when he spots Horse's picture he adamantly declares that he has no idea why Horse is up there - he knew nothing at all and Nick will testify in court on that. Even now, Union loyalty trumps all else. They ask about Sergei and Nick explains he was the driver, he was the one who took things off the dock... but Sergei always got the feeling he was involved in the "hurting" side of things as well. Why? He carried himself that way, but also he once told Nick that the person responsible for the 14 dead girls had been taken care of, a statement which gets everybody's attention, can he elaborate? All Nick can remember is that he was told the one responsible was a "dead end" in Philly, and then Freamon takes a gamble and hands over the picture of Vondas and Rados - who is the suit? Nick looks and shrugs, he has no idea, and Bunk is confused, is he sure he doesn't know? They know that Vondas reported to somebody above him. Sure, Nick knows that, it was "The Greek", but that's not him. Daniels sighs, this was their best lead on the Boss Man and it turned out to be nothing... but then Nick takes a closer look at the photo and points at the old man passing by in front of Vondas and Rodas, lighting a cigarette - THAT is The Greek. Shocked, everybody gathers around (the silent, probably slightly overwhelmed public defender is completely obscured) and looks at the man that Nick is pointing out - they through they had a photo of the Boss Man, and they did... they were just looking at the wrong person.



Greggs and McNulty have gotten a report on Cheese Flagstaff (his name will be changed to Wagstaff in the future), and it makes for interesting reading - Cheese works for Prop Joe, one of the major players on the East Side... so what is Cheese doing working in the heart of Barksdale territory? Santangelo isn't too pleased to hear that Greggs and McNulty want him to let Bubbles go, and McNulty tells him he'll owe him. They go back into the interrogation room and Bubbles is delighted to be uncuffed, he's been saved again. Santangelo releases Johnny too ("he's his valet") who pushes things too far by asking if he can use the bathroom, and Santangelo snaps,"gently caress NO!" at him. Greggs has one more pertinent question for Bubbles - what's the quality of the product in the Towers right now? The answer is very interesting - it was poo poo, now it's right.

Fitzhugh arrives at the Detail office with interesting news for Freamon - he's found Rados' identity, and he really is "just a suit", he's a lawyer. But the manhours put in by the FBI back when they were actively involved in the case have also paid off - a shipping can coming in tomorrow matches the data from the other fake manifests for previous suspected smuggled cans. Freamon is pleased (Fitzhugh notes it represents around $300,000 worth of manhours) and Fitzhugh asks what is to be done with Nick, who is sitting at one of the lunch tables with his upper body spread out over the surface, not quite napping but completely spent of rage and energy, mentally exhausted. Freamon tells Fitzhugh he needs to get onto the US Attorney to arrange Witness Protection for Nick, and they're currently picking up Aimee and Ashley - he asks Fitzhugh to keep it as quiet as possible, they don't want to lose another cooperating witness.

Daniels is watching the news - Frank's death - in his underwear when Marla knocks at the door, the phone is for him. He answers while Marla goes back into her now separate bedroom and turns off the lights - Daniels is finally achieving professional happiness, but at the expense of his personal life. Sadly it's not a unique or even uncommon situation for police.

Freamon called to let Daniels know that Fitzhugh was arranging Witness Protection. The Agent is making use of technology to do so, preparing to send his fax with the information when a last second instinct causes him to tear the paper out before it can feed in. Freamon asked him to keep it as quiet as possible, and something about Frank's death is clearly eating at him, so he puts through a call in person to Agent Koutris. Why Agent Koutris? Has he been keeping him in the loop as a professional courtesy? Does he suspect Koutris as the only potential outside source that might explain Frank's death? Whatever the reason, he calls the San Diego Field Office and discovers that Koutris no longer works there - he's been working in Counter-Terrorism in Washington DC for well over a year now. Though he can't know for certain, Fitzhugh knows - he's hosed up big time.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The next day, Herc and Carver are glaring directly ahead, absolutely fed up with the long, exhausting and unproductive wait for Nick's return home. Finally enough is enough and Carver is out the door followed by Herc, hammering on Louis' door until he finally answers and takes a barrage of threats from Carver - either Nick hands himself in or they will raid Louis' home twice a day for as long as it takes for Nick to turn himself in, goddammit! Louis is startled, confused and finally manages to get a surprisingly respectful word in edgewise - his son handed himself in last night at the Southeastern, in fact a detective was there at the time. He hands the detective's card to a shocked Carver, who angrily hands it to Herc, and then they burst off with (quite justified!) fury - they're going to have words with their superiors!



Nick, Aimee and Ashley are brought into the small motel room they'll be staying at for the next little while by an Agent who tells them not to use the phone and not to go anywhere without the Agent who is posted outside their door. He leaves, and Aimee looks around the lovely motel room, commenting that it is a dump. Nick, with that wonderful sense of Sobotka timing, points out that she always wanted them to get a place together.

At the Detail Office, Freamon is discussing the headless/handless corpses with Daniels and the news that the man responsible for the 14 dead women was killed in Philadelphia - this narrows things down slightly, it's unlikely that they took the bodies far from where they were murdered. Freamon asks Bunk if they kept any photos from the evidence taken from the Atlantic Light, and heads out to pick them up from the Evidence Control Unit. Bunk and Beadie are going to head up to Philadelphia, and as they leave they pass a furious and determined Herc and Carver, compounding their frustation by asking just where they've been?

At Butchie's, Omar is puzzling over the situation he has found himself in. Nothing makes sense, Brother Mouzone clearly had no idea what Omar was talking about when he brought up Brandon so he eased off... did Mouzone play him? Butchie doesn't think so though, if he can't tell lying eyes by now then he'd be a dead man. None of it makes any sense though, if Brother Mouzone had been called in to deal with Stringer last year, he wouldn't have stopped at Brandon, he would have kept coming till him or Omar were dead. So what is the explanation? Avon Barksdale's father was an evil man, according to Butchie, so is Avon, and so is Stringer now that he thinks about it - he should have never agreed to Proposition Joe's request for a meeting. Omar stresses that he's going to go hard at Stringer Bell for leading him into all of this, and Butchie knows there is no talking him out of it. Butchie blinks and stares at nothing, and Omar asks the blind man what he sees. "Too much," replies Butchie.

Daniels has hosed up and he knows it, there is no getting around it. A lot happened over the previous night is the only explanation he can give for not letting them know that Nick Sobotka was in custody, but Herc points out that not a lot happened with them. They're furious at being considered pack mules rather than people, forced to sit in place, to babysit one mope or pick up another. Daniels reminds them this is part of the job, and Herc doesn't do his justified anger any good by complaining that the job used to have more "rip and run" to it, allowing Daniels to remind them that they're doing something deeper than that in this unit. Herc takes that as an insult though, is he saying they're not smart enough to do that? Carver has been seething and finally he snaps, leaping up and telling Daniels that there is a posting for a Sergeant in Major Colvin's district, and the last time he checked, he has stripes on his shoulder. He storms out, whatever residual guilt over his betrayal of Daniels was left, whatever slowly dawning realization of the benefits of the Major Cases' approach to policework... it's all gone now, Carver is tired of being a second-class citizen, and he's going to go somewhere where he will get the respect he believes he deserves.

Greggs and McNulty are taking photos at the towers, unable to believe that they're really seeing East Side and West Side dealers working side by side peacefully - it's like cats and dogs. Greggs' beeper goes off and she complains that she has to be somewhere.

Bunk and Beadie arrive at the Port of Philadelphia, where the elderly and slightly confused desk officer struggles to understand their request for "anything unusual" that happened on one particular date. He looks through the entry log and doesn't find anything unusual, so Bunk (who is struggling to hold his temper) asks if they can have the name of the security guard on duty that evening. Eventually it comes out this was "Old Walt" who doesn't work on Tuesdays so they can't talk to him tonight.... besides, what do they want with him? Bunk shows shows of known Greek muscle including Sergei, and the Security Officer tells them that it wouldn't do much good - Old Walt isn't as up to speed as the rest of them. Bunk - who has a bad history with the Port of Philadelphia after his previous dealings with the Atlantic Light - has had enough and he and Beadie sigh and prepare to leave, at which point the Security Officer asks if they want to take a look at the extensive videotape coverage they have, including for the night in question.



Kima's appointment that she was so frustrated by is to join Cheryl in shopping for their upcoming baby. Cheryl is in heaven, laughing and joking as she looks around at the various items, while Greggs makes no effort whatsoever to hide her complete lack of interest. Cheryl finally picks up on it and her own good mood disappears, and she forces Greggs to face up to the reality of their situation - it doesn't matter how churlish and grumpy Kima acts, the baby IS coming, and will need both of them - forever. It might not be real to Kima yet, but it is real to Cheryl. She turns and storms away, leaving the normally mature and thoughtful Kima to face up to her own immaturity.

She's not the only one. At the motel, Aimee has showered and is preparing for bed while Nick and Ashley sit on the bed watching cartoons. Aimee has been holding it in as much as possible, but finally she can't any longer and she demands answers from Nick - what is going to happen to them? Where are they going? What will they do? Nick - as always - refuses to face these types of questions head on, and simply sits watching the cartoon silently with Ashley. Nick has never been able to accept the notion that he isn't "man" enough to look after his family, but rather than doing anything about it, he's either just ignored it as a problem or been involved in crime to keep up the pretense that he is in charge of his life.

The next day on the docks, Johnny 50 lets Horse know that a can has come in but no driver is there to pick it up. When Horse learns it is listed on the shipping manifest as coming from France, he knows it is one of The Greek's cans. Furious, he tells Johnny to make sure it is entered into the system. Freamon and Fitzhugh are watching it on the cloned computer system at the Detail Office and register that the can hasn't been "lost" in the system. Greggs and McNulty arrive and ask Freamon about the re-ups that seemed to be running through Pyramid before they lost that wiretap, and he tells them that at first it was 5-6kilos, and the last one they heard was for 12. Greggs and McNulty are intrigued, Prop Joe has people working the Towers in Barksdale territory, the quality of the product has gone through the roof and one of the buyers from Pyramid doubled their order one week? What is going on?

Prop Joe is joined on a park bench by Vondas, who as a courtesy has met with Joe in person to let him know that he is going to be out of town and will be out of contact. Joe will have to wait to hear from "new people" for his next re-up, and it will be at least a week. Joe only has enough product to just last through the week, and asks if Vondas has anything he's looking to unload before he goes, but in spite of his own misgivings Vondas doesn't bite - the last shipment is "lost". How so, asks Joe, and Vondas explains that police "might" be sitting on it, impressing Joe who is surprised but pleased by the show of discipline. He tells Vondas he looks forward to hearing from the new people and tells him to have a good trip... where is he going again? Vondas smiles and leaves, Prop Joe watching a girl go by on a bike, content with life. His suppliers have just been hit hard by a quality police investigation. The end result? There won't be any NEW drugs for a week. Consider that - a quality, well run police investigation that included assistance from the FBI only manages to prevent NEW drugs for a week, and the old drugs already in circulation is enough to last for that period anyway.

Daniels, Freamon and Fitzhugh and a couple of Port Authority police have opened the can and found what looks to be about 200kilos of raw drugs just left on the docks. They're not going to send it down to the Customs Shed though, they're going to seal it back up and hope that The Greek sends somebody to pick it up in a couple of days. The Port Authority officer asks if they're that lucky, and Daniels sighs that if The Greek hadn't realized they were onto them when they did, they could have made a hell of a case out of this. Fitzhugh, who at least suspects this is his fault, hangs his head - he knows what a huge deal this kind of bust could have been.



Stringer visits Avon in prison to let him know the situation with Brother Mouzone, and quite cleverly twists Brother's own words/demeanor to create a very negative impression in Avon's mind - Avon is furious at Mouzone's failure, doesn't care how Mouzone is doing and disgusted by his use of the word "absolved" in regards to their contract with him. Things are going very well for Stringer's plan until he fucks up by revealing that he asked Mouzone who came at him. Avon is horrified, he asked Mouzone THAT? Stringer is confused, why is this so bad? Avon snaps that with a professional like Mouzone, he'll either tell you or he'll handle it himself, you never ask him. Some of the shine has come off Stringer in Avon's mind for that mistake, and Stringer falls back to familiar territory in light of Avon's anger, telling him that they're just on a downward cycle like any other business. Avon shuts him up immediately, telling a clearly uncomprehending Stringer that this isn't about "that part of it, it's the other thing". Stringer's problem is that he has always believed that they can operate on the basis of money/profit alone, and that the violence is a mostly (or entirely) unnecessary aspect of it. But they're involved in a drug empire running mostly uneducated street-level drug dealers, and there is sadly an important role for violence and a dangerous reputation. So Stringer does about the best thing he could have done in this situation, and instead of trying to stay on top of everything he just tells Avon that he doesn't know what to do now. Avon swallows his pride and tells Stringer to go see Prop Joe and work out a deal to share the Towers after all... they'll run thing Stringer's way till Avon is back. Stringer has - of course - done this a long time earlier, but now he has Avon's "approval", they can run things out in the (comparative) open. Pleased, he presses his fist against the glass and says,"Us,", but Avon takes an uncomfortably long time before brusquely returning the gesture and then making a quick exit from the visiting room. Stringer got what he wanted, but Avon no longer trusts him completely as he once did.

Back at the Detail office, Bunk, Beadie, Freamon and Fitzhugh watch as a tech takes them through the security camera footage. It's running at an accelerated rate, a space-saving feature that allows the port to fit a great deal onto one tape. The tech is able to locate the night they wanted and then slow the footage down to regular speed, and they're bemused to see what is clearly Sergei arriving and flashing a badge while driving a Mercedes Benz. They spot the crewman jumping the Atlantic Light and getting chased down by Sergei and his men, and to their pleasure they also have camera footage from inside... including very clear footage of Sergei and his men putting a savage beating on the crewman. "My pants are wet!" gasps Bunk as he watches this unexpected treasure trove of information unfold before him.

Prop Joe arrives for an alleyway meeting with Stringer, who walks to the window and talks to him from the back of his car. Prop Joe informs him that there will be a one-week delay on the Re-Up as his people "adjust to some poo poo", but it will be no more than that. How did it go with Avon? Stringer has good news, and the two men bump fists, unaware that their unusual business arrangement - designed specifically to avoid police attention - has attracted police attention - they're photographed by Greggs and McNulty.



Nat enters the Union Hall looking for information on Frank, though Johnny 50 mistakes his interest in "what is going on" to the word going around about the can full of drugs that the police have left out as bait. The FBI arrives, much to everybody's displeasure, where they inform them that the Local will be decertified if changes aren't made and soon. They vote in new leaders or the US Attorney will padlock the door, and all decisions regarding the Union, its finances and support and seniority et al will be made by a Federal Magistrate from the Courthouse. They leave, satisfied they've made their point, and Ott comes to a firm decision. He tears down his poster campaigning for Union Treasurer-Secretary, leaving up Frank's own, and declares,"One man, one vote" before storming out. Nat is surprised, but like everybody else proud of Ott's decision. It will be a fatal one though, the FBI isn't kidding around, and the really depressing thing is that under the old rules of the Union, Frank would have been out no matter how much he was pushing for re-election anyway. But the important thing for the Union is maintaining their solidarity, it's the entire point of the Union in the first place - so they'll "die" Union rather than let somebody else step in and tell them how to run things.

Freamon and Bunk sit down for another interrogation with Sergei, but this time the Ukrainian's wall of silence is easily broken. They have audio of his declaration that he kills people by removing their head and hands. They have a headless/handless body with tattoos and DNA that matches those of a missing Atlantic Light crewman. They have video tape of what looks like Sergei physically assaulting that crewman. They have an enhanced (not in a ludicrous CSI type way) image of the license plate for a rental car that was rented by... Sergei. Bunk even gives fake credit to Walt Stokes for that one, claiming he's a good man who keeps meticulous records. Sergei's face slowly shifts from blank poker face to unease to near panic when Freamon hits him with the final killer blow - they can charge him with Aggravated Murder and Kidnapping, and in this State, that gets the Death Penalty. He stares at the image, his breathing is coming fast and finally he blurts it out,"I didn't kill him!"

He admits that he was there but he didn't do the killing, that was Vondas, he saw him slit his throat. Unbidden, he lets it all out, a lifetime of silence shattered as he explains exactly what happened - how the crewman was supposed to be the shepherd for the girls, how he tried to make money from them while the ship sailed, how one girl fought and so she was killed, and then the rest died to cover up the crime - he HAD to die, the idiot, there was no choice. He turns the papers over angrily, and Bunk can barely suppress his glee as he asks if Sergei would like something - coffee, a soda? Sergei, sweating, asks for vodka and has to settle for coffee, and Bunk heads out the door where he gleefully tells a surprised Daniels and Beadie that the 14 murders have been solved... with another John Doe thrown into the mix! Does Daniels want to tell Rawls? Daniels smiles, let him stew for a little bit.



Daniels does have some business to take care of though. He heads into the interrogation room and lays down the photo of The Greek, Vondas and Rados - who is the man above Vondas? Sergei doesn't hesitate, it's "The Greek", but he doesn't have a name for Daniels, even Sergei only knows him as The Greek. Daniels won't let up though, if he wants the Death Penalty off of the table, he wants to know where he can find them. Sergei suggests a hotel, not the one in the photo, another... and he can take them there.

Soon, Freamon, Bunk and Daniels join other officers in a raid of the hotel room where not so long ago we saw The Greek and Vondas discussing The Greek. They rush about the rooms, but they're empty, there is nobody there. Daniels looks down at the coffee table, a bottle of Ouzo and an ashtray full of cigarettes show him just how close he came to actually catching one of the genuine, legitimate big fish of the drugs world. At the airport, The Greek hands over his passport after Vondas, and smilingly tells the clerk,"Business. Always business," when asked if his flight is for the purposes of business or pleasure. He eyes up a nearby female clerk with what seems like Grandfatherly affection (consider his part in the sex slavery trade) and then heads for his plane, reaching into his pocket for his worry beads and discovering he doesn't have them. Vondas asks if he is missing something, but the ever pragmatic Greek says it was nothing important. At the hotel, Daniels picks up the worry beads with a pen and places them into a bag - this is as close as he will ever get.

Later that night at a bar, McNulty and Greggs arrive and spot the surprisingly morose members of the Detail drinking, some at the bar, others (like Herc and Carver) sitting at a table glaring sullenly at everybody. Bunk is in no mood to joke about with McNulty, and Freamon explains the case hit the wall - they cleared the murders, the smuggling and the drugs but they were late on Vondas and The Greek. Fitzhugh says they have interstate flight warrants out but from what Nick told them, The Greek and Vondas practically collect passports. They ask Daniels what he'll do with the drugs end of the case, and he suggests passing it on to Narcotics, but they have a better idea. McNulty shows Daniels the photo of Stringer Bell meeting with Proposition Joe, and they share a smile - a top West Side and East Side Dealer working together sounds like just the thing for the newly formed Major Cases Squad.

McNulty passes by Beadie and flirts with a grumpy Pearlman, and Fitzhugh finally gets up the courage to tell Daniels what has been eating him up - he found the leak, it was him. He explains he was using the FBI systems to get information on Daniels' targets and thought he was talking to another Field Agent in San Diego, and had no idea he was actually working in Counter-Terrorism out of Washington. He suspects (which is why he'll never bring this up to anybody else) that The Greek and Vondas were assets for Counter-Terrorism and this is how they stayed a step ahead of the investigation. Daniels takes it all in and then turns and walks away, Fitzhugh only able to offer a heartfelt apology - he knows he hosed up.

Herc and Carver continue their animated discussion about their futures, and Beadie notes to Freamon that the world just keeps on turning. The Squad will move on to another case, with the implication being that she will not be amongst them. Her involvement was for this case only, and though she had a taste for it, one would suspect that it was only because of her personal involvement - what next for Beadie Russell? Freamon offers to buy the next round and is surprised by the complete lack of interest - this case had a more concrete resolution than the Barksdale case did, but even so everybody can't help but feel that they've failed.

The next day, Nick wakes early and gets dressed, leaving Aimee and Ashley sleeping in the motel bed. Aimee wakes and asks where he is going, and Nick offers only a simple,"Work," before heading out the door.

Valchek collects his morning mail and is surprised to see a letter from Australia. Opening it, he discovers a photo of his surveillance van that has come all the way from Melbourne, and shakes his head with a wry smile,"Frank, you cocksucker," he laughs, and then in Polish tells his foe to rest in peace.

The FBI Agent has driven Nick close to the Union Hall but he decides to walk from there, assuring the Agent that nobody fucks with them on their own turf. He heads into the Hiring Hall where La La is reading the paper, surprised to see him. Nick comes over and shrugs, asking what the gently caress else he was going to do? It's a nice symbolic gesture of his solidarity, but La La informs him there isn't enough work today for Nick to get a spot, and they shake the old joke,"Seniority sucks... if you're not senior." He leaves the Hiring Hall, at a loss what to do now, unable to leave what he knows behind and too scared to go headlong into a future bereft of everything that has anchored his life in place to date. He walks along the fence by the harbor, shadowed by the Agent in his car, and stops to look through the fence much like Frank did in the previous episode, taking in sights of the only life he has ever known.

So the traditional end of season montage begins - a season that took us inside the ports, the slow death of one section of working class Baltimore, another look at the abandonment of a once integral part of society and the choices that people put into that situation make... as well as those they don't, can't or won't. Steve Earle's "Feel Alright" plays as US Marshals close down the Union Hall, the end result of the solidarity shown in the wake of Frank's death. The Port Authority police remain watching the abandoned shipping can full of drugs, an open secret on the docks - Johnny 50 pisses on the can and flips the bird to the confused Port Authority police. Horseface finds himself in court alongside Eton, the two tied together in the eyes of the law even if they never met and despite the fact that Horseface at least utterly detests Eton. The 14 red names dropped on Homicide by a vindictive McNulty turn black, much to Rawls and Landsman's delight, the rock around their neck has turned out to be made of gold, these clearances will do wonders for their clearance rate. Ziggy - presumably shifted to a County Jail thanks to Nick's cooperation - shuffles along with other prisoners, all his glee and zest for life gone. Andy Krawcyk makes an enthusiastic speech to a very small crowd as he announces The Grainery, the condominiums that Frank Sobotka most feared would replace his push to get more work for the docks now a reality - the usual suspects are there to make money though, including Clay Davis who happily took Frank's money before abandoning him. Beadie's premonition about the world continuing to turn comes true as - the investigation over - she returns to her old work patrolling the docks with the port police. I'd like to call attention to a wonderful observation made earlier in the thread:

Spoilers Below posted:

Nice symbolism with Beadie and her headphones. She takes them off when she finds the broken seal, and doesn't put them on again until the final montage, when she's done with all the investigative work. She goes from one small lonely job (taking tolls on the freeway) to another (driving around solo, occasionally BS'ing with the stevedores, but otherwise just putting in the hours and going home), cut off from the horrors of her job (this certainly isn't the first or last time women have been trafficked through the port, not to mention all the other contraband and illegal substances) and literally not listening. She doesn't expect the job to save her, or even to derive much meaning from it. It's not a career.

Freamon takes down the organizational charts assembled during the investigation, packing it away in a box marked,"Port Investigation 2003", leaving up the photo of The Greek - the one who got away. Meanwhile the drug trade continues unabated throughout Baltimore, no dip experienced whatsoever even in spite of the highly successful investigation. Frog and a Lieutenant mock an old woman trying to clear them off of her stoop, a sad note declaring her house is for sale in the window - the drugs remain so prevalent that she has had to move out of the place she has probably lived for decades, and good luck getting a good price considering the neighborhood. Poot and Puddin watch a police cruiser drive by, out of The Pit for good it seems and now selling on the corners again, either because The Pit has become too high profile or because they've realized there is more money to be made out on these corners than in a place where prospective customers might be too scared to approach. La La and Johnny 50 get drunk on the street, drinking from bottles in paper bags (Colvin will wax lyrical on the paper bag next season), their fates uncertain without a real Union behind them anymore. Vondas' new people have hooked up with Prop Joe, who watches from the back of a car as a sample of the drugs is tested and found to be good, and he collects his new shipment, nodding in approval. The drugs unloaded and Joe moved on, next out is the other "cargo", even more women smuggled in - as The Greek noted, there are always more women - these bewildered and bedragged women are lead out blinking against the headlights, stumbling from their long confinement, ready to be put to work as sex slaves - the 14 dead women don't even scratch the surface of the mostly ignored sex slavery trade, anymore than the loss of 200 kilos of drugs did anything to stop the flow of drugs in Baltimore. Finally, quick shots of the skeletons of what was once the industrial powerhouses of Baltimore flash by, and the montage concludes. Nick stands in the rain, staring out at the water, and finally pulls away, wiping the tears from his eyes and continuing on up the street. He doesn't know where he is going or what he is doing. He has no plan, he's turned his nose up at his one potential legitimate escape route, and the future looks grim for him, Aimee and Ashley.



Nick's story is a dramatic one from a work of fiction, but it represents a sad reality. Sure, most people aren't involved with International Smuggling Rings, but there are plenty of working class people struggling to find work, abandoned by society, turning to crime, destroying their families and looking at an empty, frustrating and uncaring future. Race plays a part, undoubtedly, but one lesson I think we should take from The Wire is that these things affect black, white, Hispanic, Asian etc - businesses lay off workers for short term gain, industries collapse, communities go with them, society suffers, crime rises, and all the time people are blaming the individual for not overcoming the massive hurdles in their way.

Next season, The Wire leaves the docks and returns to inner city drugs, and parallels strongly with the War in Iraq - 3Romeo is keen to write on this and I know escape artist (who is the OP after all!) wants to as well. I'm more than happy to sit back and see what they have to say, a lot of this is stuff I missed - but I'll be happy to jump in at any time to contribute or continue doing write-ups for season 3 as well. Elements introduced in season 2 and 1 continue on into season 3 - Stringer's growing love for running things against his love/dedication for Avon; Major Colvin's despair over the ineffectualness of his police force; McNulty's dissatisfaction with his life; Burrell and Rawls' love of statistics/politicking; Daniels attempt to build a real career out of real police work; and the introduction of a character who will have a huge impact on the rest of the show - Carcetti.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 11:38 on May 26, 2013

grading essays nude
Oct 24, 2009

so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life
Do you have a link/can recall the reasoning for the Greek actually being a Cypriot? Sounds interesting, although I like to think he's actually from a country not even remotely resembling Greece and that the whole thing is a cover, even if that's a little far-fetched for The Wire.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

cletepurcel posted:

Do you have a link/can recall the reasoning for the Greek actually being a Cypriot? Sounds interesting, although I like to think he's actually from a country not even remotely resembling Greece and that the whole thing is a cover, even if that's a little far-fetched for The Wire.

Somebody posted it in one of the previous Wire threads, he speaks in a foreign language in one episode and somebody translated it as Cypriot.

Also, from The Wire wikia:

His background and ethnicity are never overtly identified, although his vodka drinking habits, accent, and the make-up of his organization strongly suggest an eastern European background. He seems fluent in English, Greek, and Turkish. Due to his implied dislike of Turks in 'The Old World' in the second episode of the second season, inference suggests that he may be Armenian or Greek Cypriot.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

cletepurcel posted:

I once heard a criticism of the show that its impossible to really enjoy it on a deep level unless you're already a liberal and I think this season embodies that the most.

I don't understand how you can really enjoy and understand this show on a deep level and still be a liberal.

cletepurcel posted:

It's interesting how this season, which is maybe the single most depressing ending next to season 4 (which at least had the lone bright spot of Namond escaping) is also the one that most directly deals with capitalism, with its main villain directly meant to symbolize it.

I just thought on this and my mind went to that other villain meant to symbolize capitalism, Marlo. When Marlo and the Greek, both representing capitalism, meet, something very interesting happens. Marlo brings a lot of money he obviously doesn't need and the Greek doesn't care for it. When these two successful ultra-capitalists meet, money doesn't matter, it's not a factor. There's something in here about the marginal utility of money, ie. they both have so much that a suitcase more or less doesn't really impact them, and also their mutual addiction. They have more money than they need or know what to do with, yet they keep on accumulating more. For Marlo we learn later it's never been about the money but about the street cred, but for the Greek? Maybe it's the money, maybe the power, maybe just the satisfaction of doing something he's good at, but either way, this is a meeting between two addicts whose addictions are harmful in the extreme for everyone they come in contact with. And yet, if it weren't for their particular trades being so illegal, they'd be celebrated as great successes. A young black man from the ghetto and an immigrant making it big in America. The American Dream.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 11:50 on May 26, 2013

grading essays nude
Oct 24, 2009

so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life
I meant liberal in a very general sense - ie not a conservative on the issues of drugs, unions, capitalism, education, etc. It's rather a simplistic and probably inaccurate label now that I think of it.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Jerusalem posted:

Somebody posted it in one of the previous Wire threads, he speaks in a foreign language in one episode and somebody translated it as Cypriot.

Also, from The Wire wikia:

His background and ethnicity are never overtly identified, although his vodka drinking habits, accent, and the make-up of his organization strongly suggest an eastern European background. He seems fluent in English, Greek, and Turkish. Due to his implied dislike of Turks in 'The Old World' in the second episode of the second season, inference suggests that he may be Armenian or Greek Cypriot.

No such language as Cypriot unless they meant Greek with a Cypriot accent.

But yeah, if he's not Greek, most signs point toward him being a Cypriot Greek. Considering Cypriot's place in international criminal networks that would fit things as well.

It's insane how many steps the Greeks are ahead anyone else in the game. Europe doesn't gently caress around when it comes to crime.

Frostwerks
Sep 24, 2007

by Lowtax

Jerusalem posted:

Displaying the cold steel that belies his pleasant old man exterior, The Greek tells him that lambs go to the slaughter, a man knows when to walk away.

This is alluded to come season 4 with the Snoop/Chris vacant murders.

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005

Stringer really revealed how ignorant he is of the deeper game in this episode. Without Avon, he would have died on his first corner.

Unrelated, on re-watch the Greek is kind of an 'unrealistic' character (and intentionally so). I mean, what does that guy do all day? Sit in a dirty cafe and make millions for no discernable purpose? He really is just pure capitalism.

the black husserl fucked around with this message at 02:40 on May 27, 2013

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009

by R. Guyovich

the black husserl posted:

Stringer really revealed how ignorant he is of the deeper game in this episode. Without Avon, he would have died on his first corner.

Unrelated, on re-watch the Greek is kind of an 'unrealistic' character (and intentionally so). I mean, what does that guy do all day? Sit in a dirty cafe and make millions for no discernable purpose? He really is just pure capitalism.

That's how like half of all rich people make money.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

There are guys like him out there - although you rarely if ever hear about them exactly because they keep such a low profile and aren't expected to be found in dirty cafes running gigantic criminal empires.

It's not quite the same thing, but Bernardo Provenzano spent 4 decades on the run from police, running the Sicilian Mafia from a series of rustic farmhouses, communicating only through handwritten notes and pushing a policy of as little violence as possible to avoid police attention. There have also been accusations that he was protected by members of law enforcement who he acted as an informant for, helping them catch more violent, headline grabbing criminals and leaving him to run his empire and make his millions in peace.

It's not quite the same since apparently he lived quite ostentatiously before going on the run and was apparently slightly addled - wearing Bishop's robes and constantly quoting the Bible in his orders - but the point is that people notice flash and dismiss people who look poor. Nobody believes a multi-millionaire smuggling kingpin would spend his days in a rundown dive of a cafe, so nobody looks for him there.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



the black husserl posted:

Unrelated, on re-watch the Greek is kind of an 'unrealistic' character (and intentionally so). I mean, what does that guy do all day? Sit in a dirty cafe and make millions for no discernable purpose? He really is just pure capitalism.

I get the feeling that that's because we only see the Greek from the view of the street level characters, and he does an awful lot more than simply sitting around all day and eating lousy cafe food. As I recall, we barely see Avon do anything but sit in his room, chat with his subordinates, and remind people to keep the door shut for most of the first season.

DarkCrawler posted:

But yeah, if he's not Greek, most signs point toward him being a Cypriot Greek. Considering Cypriot's place in international criminal networks that would fit things as well.

Considering that Cyprus has been a hotly contested battleground for basically the entirety of recorded human history (and remains so today for all intents and purposes), it's not much of a surprise that it would produce someone like the Greek.

quote:

It's insane how many steps the Greeks are ahead anyone else in the game. Europe doesn't gently caress around when it comes to crime.

"If [Americans] wanna sell drugs in Baltimore, they have to make different laws for it, like even it out for 'em."

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

the black husserl posted:

Stringer really revealed how ignorant he is of the deeper game in this episode. Without Avon, he would have died on his first corner.

Unrelated, on re-watch the Greek is kind of an 'unrealistic' character (and intentionally so). I mean, what does that guy do all day? Sit in a dirty cafe and make millions for no discernable purpose? He really is just pure capitalism.

Marlo sat in a dirty courtyard and made millions for no purpose. Joe spent his days on a dirty shop repairing toasters while he made millions. Avon spent his days on a dirty backroom of a strip club, making millions. Stringer is the only one who really tried to do anything with his money.

I know if I was a millionnaire I would pretty much to do the things I do now, just without having to go to a job to pay for it. I'd just travel more but I figure the Greek travels plenty, even if only on business. :v:

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005

DarkCrawler posted:

Marlo sat in a dirty courtyard and made millions for no purpose. Joe spent his days on a dirty shop repairing toasters while he made millions. Avon spent his days on a dirty backroom of a strip club, making millions. Stringer is the only one who really tried to do anything with his money.

Not at all? Prop Joe (and even Marlo) are surrounded by their community and family. Avon works with his nephew, his best friend, and clearly has strong family ties, as well as dreams. He's as human as they come, just ambitious and cruel.

You're missing my point. The Greek has nothing, no place, no dreams. He doesn't even have a name. The Greek does not look like he enjoys any pleasure beyond Vodka and vague menace.




edit: I don't think the Greek has a real life with kids like Chris does. I think we are seeing the Greek's real life. Heck, even throat-sllitter Vondas betrays a moment of weakness when it comes to Nick.

the black husserl fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 27, 2013

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

the black husserl posted:

Not at all? Prop Joe (and even Marlo) are surrounded by their community and family. Avon works with his nephew, his best friend, and clearly has strong family ties, as well as dreams. He's as human as they come, just ambitious and cruel.

You're missing my point. The Greek has nothing, no place, no dreams. He doesn't even have a name. The Greek does not look like he enjoys any pleasure beyond Vodka and vague menace.




edit: I don't think the Greek has a real life with kids like Chris does. I think we are seeing the Greek's real life. Heck, even throat-sllitter Vondas betrays a moment of weakness when it comes to Nick.

Vondas seems to be his friend as well as the madam of the prostitutes. They had several dinner scenes where they seemed to be enjoying themselves.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Plus, you know, dude's old and given his line of work, probably seen some poo poo. Maybe he's running away from whatever his past or family is or what have you by burying himself in his work.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx
Wasn't the Greek the one who told Frank to spend a little of his money on some nice stuff, asking what's the point if you can't enjoy your riches a little?

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005

comes along bort posted:

Wasn't the Greek the one who told Frank to spend a little of his money on some nice stuff, asking what's the point if you can't enjoy your riches a little?

Which i pretty ironic, considering it's not something Frank or the Greek would ever do.

Randomly Specific
Sep 23, 2012

My keys are somewhere in there.
We get very little screen time with the Greek because he's essentially a Macguffin- Frank wants to deal with him directly, MCU wants to catch him. I still maintain that he's a pawn on the board for a much bigger player, and likely he's just the sort of competent upper management type who likes making a business work. Some people just enjoy their work, and I'd expect the Greek is one of them.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
The greek may also funnel his money back to his family or community. It may put his grandkids through college or help keep his community not-a-shithole, or maybe he spends it on political poo poo, but I get the impression he's not one for politics.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Yeah, I don't know if it's fair to say that the Greek has no life outside of his work, we really barely ever follow the man outside of his scenes in the diner. I mean, Stringer Bell was a major character in the show, and it wasn't even until the end of the third season (after he dies) that we even get to see his house. One of the interesting things about this show is that the characters have lives off-screen that carry on without us noticing. Like that scene with Herc, Carver, Dozerman, Bodie, Poot, and their girlfriends at the movie theater.

Octorok
Mar 27, 2007

Orange Devil posted:

I don't understand how you can really enjoy and understand this show on a deep level and still be a liberal.
I don't mean to stir up some poo poo, but what were the fallacies of liberal policies implied by this show?

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 years!
Hair Elf
Just as a heads up, I'll probably have season 3 episode 1's write up posted on the 1st. (It's getting longer than I thought it would, and besides, there's more than enough stuff in season 2 to have a good conversation for a few days.)

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Octorok posted:

I don't mean to stir up some poo poo, but what were the fallacies of liberal policies implied by this show?

One could make the argument that the show depicts complete selfishness and complete non-involvement as the only two viable options for happiness, and that caring about other people or trying to change the system only results in failure and broken people.

The ending of Hamsterdam could also be read as "Look what those liberals want! Drug addicts everywhere! It doesn't work, does it? I mean, look at that place! And then that stupid cop ends up with a bunch of academics, trying to study kids who won't even try. That one kid who won't go to high school? gently caress him. He doesn't want it badly enough. Of course he ends up a heroin addict! He should have studied harder and gone to college on a scholarship like the other kid!"

It's not an argument I would make, because it relies on a pretty shallow reading of many of the characters and situations, but I could see where you'd find evidence for it...

edit: If you want to go the small government route, you could see it as about how government needs to be smaller so that petty dictators and stats obsessed jerks don't get into power. But again, really shallow reading, because how would having, for example, no layers between Burrell and McNulty change anything?

Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 28, 2013

ScipioAfro
Feb 21, 2011
I'm guessing Orange Devil was taking a Phil Ochs view of liberal america.

Talking about The Greeks life outside of work, while there isn't a much directly about his life, he does seem to understand that people need something outside work. Whether it's base appeals to things you can touch, or at the end when he realises that Vondas is attached to Nick he basically tells him to find something outside business (The job won't save you I guess), I sort of see him talking from experience in this. I think the worry beads he carries work as a sort of metaphor for that side of him, its not a direct implication 'oh he carries the beads for his kids' or whatever, but rather the beads are stuck on his character to remind the audience to think of that side of him, he dismisses them easily at the end, but there isn't nothing there.

ScipioAfro fucked around with this message at 18:50 on May 28, 2013

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005

He means liberal in the sense of a liberal capitalist. The Wire is about how liberal capitalism does not hold the promise America believes it does.

ScipioAfro posted:

Talking about The Greeks life outside of work, while there isn't a much directly about his life, he does seem to understand that people need something outside work. Whether it's base appeals to things you can touch, or at the end when he realises that Vondas is attached to Nick he basically tells him to find something outside business (The job won't save you I guess), I sort of see him talking from experience in this. I think the worry beads he carries work as a sort of metaphor for that side of him, its not a direct implication 'oh he carries the beads for his kids' or whatever, but rather the beads are stuck on his character to remind the audience to think of that side of him, he dismisses them easily at the end, but there isn't nothing there.

I'm pretty sure that dismissing the beads was indeed a symbol that nothing is there, considering that his only characteristic has been discarded. Also didn't David Simon explicitly state that Marlo and The Greek are abstract forces of capitalism? That point is just more obvious in the re-watch.

Unexpected Raw Anime
Oct 9, 2012

Spoilers Below posted:

I get the feeling that that's because we only see the Greek from the view of the street level characters, and he does an awful lot more than simply sitting around all day and eating lousy cafe food. As I recall, we barely see Avon do anything but sit in his room, chat with his subordinates, and remind people to keep the door shut for most of the first season

Not sure why I felt so strongly the need to point this out, but Stringer was the one constantly reminding people to shut and/or lock the door. I think he did this at least once in like every other episode. I'm not sure if it was intended to present paranoia on his part or what but to this day it makes me giggle a little every time he does it. At one point there was a YouTube montage of every time he says it.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Everytime I ask some to shut a door it comes out as "ay yo shut that door. yo lock that door."

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Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Benny D posted:

Not sure why I felt so strongly the need to point this out, but Stringer was the one constantly reminding people to shut and/or lock the door. I think he did this at least once in like every other episode. I'm not sure if it was intended to present paranoia on his part or what but to this day it makes me giggle a little every time he does it. At one point there was a YouTube montage of every time he says it.

It may have seemed paranoid, but to be fair, there was a wired-up stripper informant out there trying to listen in, so he was exactly as careful as he needed to be.

And in the end, all the cops needed to hear him say to bust him was "not on the phone," on the phone. Which I suppose is basically the phone equivalent of "shut the door."

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