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Popcorn posted:So what does that mean for Shinji and his handful of anime spunk? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs
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May 24, 2013 00:39
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Popcorn posted:2: "Asuka's pretty hot, huh, anime fans? Pretty sassy, pretty sexy? OK, you wanna see her boobs? Well, OK, but in this particular instance we'll make it unsexy because she's in a coma and you should feel bad for finding her sexy right now, but only right now." Uh...yeah? There's nothing wrong with Shinji finding Asuka attractive - hell, that's probably one of the healthier aspects to his character. It only gets hosed up when he focuses on her as nothing but a sex object to the detriment of acknowledging or loving her as a person - as exemplified by (but not limited to) polishing his dick in front of her comatose body - or, say, creepy nerds jerking off over body pillows.
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May 24, 2013 00:40
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Popcorn posted:Yeah, but isn't it "OK" to perv over Asuka, because she isn't a passive sex doll? In that scene, she's in a coma, which is pretty much the most naked and literal version of "don't perv on someone who's totally passive and helpless." The rest of the time Evangelion isn't really interested in criticizing it, and even indulges in it. Anno and the other staffs' comments make it sound like they only really meant to aim their work at a teenage audience, while the marketing says the opposite. Both are outside the show itself. Popcorn posted:1: "Asuka's pretty hot, huh, anime fans? Pretty sassy, pretty sexy? OK, you wanna see her boobs? Here you go! Oh this scene is completely unsexy and joyless and Shinji (you) points out how hosed up he (you) is. Bet you feel kind of sick and pathetic now, huh, anime fan? gently caress you! Hope you learnt your lesson! Never objectify women in anime!" Yeah, it's not saying this. I wish it were, because then it might seriously rival Utena as my favorite anime ever, but interpreting it that way would require you to gloss over whole episodes of the show. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 00:45
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Spiritus Nox posted:Uh...yeah? I'm not saying that option doesn't make sense or isn't even the most sensible reading. I'd just always wondered if option #1 was a contender too.
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May 24, 2013 00:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:In that scene, she's in a coma, which is pretty much the most naked and literal version of "don't perv on someone who's totally passive and helpless." Like when you watch porn? 
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May 24, 2013 00:58
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Abalieno posted:Like when you watch porn? I'm not sure if I want to ask what you're talking about or just write it off as a non-sequitur and not find out.
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May 24, 2013 01:01
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I simply mean that even in "porn" the image you are watching is "passive and helpless". If Shinji was watching the image of a naked Asuka, or directly herself naked this wouldn't be a real difference. He isn't "guilty" of having produced the image (since it's not like he pulled Asuka shirt off himself), just of having "seen" it. Say Asuka was a very sexy classmate of yours. And that in some way you were able to peek at her when she was naked. Would you really have suddenly looked elsewhere to respect her privacy, or simply kept looking if you knew she wouldn't notice? So I don't see any "guilt" in that scene. What's wrong with it is that Shinji does it right there in front of her, and it's creepy and disgusting, but not particularly something to be blamed for. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 24, 2013 01:12
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Popcorn posted:The subway particularly resonated with me. The kids swiping their tickets on the ticket machines, and the complex networks the Eva units get routed through to get to the surface... Nerv's just the Tokyo subway really.
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May 24, 2013 01:14
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Do the concepts "consent" and "underage" mean anything to you guys ? Just saying. 
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May 24, 2013 01:22
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Utritum posted:There is some quotes on her from Anno here: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Statements_by_Evangelion_Staff On his favorite Evangelion character... ANNO: Asuka , because she's cute. Haha. Even Anno objectifies the females in Evangelion. No wonder Anno's surrogate masturbated when he saw her breasts. Wank fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 01:23
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bof_man posted:Do the concepts "consent" and "underage" mean anything to you guys ? Just saying. What about "classmates" and "same age"? You think a 14 years old can't see a 14 years old girl naked because she's UNDERAGE? Consent isn't the point since Shinji didn't drill a hole in a shower to see a girl naked. The girl simply turned on her own and suddenly BOOBS. It's an incident and can happen to anyone. Consent would be the issue if Shinji himself pulled at Asuka's shirt to get her naked. But he doesn't.
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May 24, 2013 01:30
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Abalieno posted:What about "classmates" and "same age"? You think a 14 years old can't see a 14 years old girl naked because she's UNDERAGE? I thought he was tugging at her saying "help me Asuka" and got progressively more violent as he sank into freak-out land and then tugged a bit too hard and oh hey there. In other words, he accidentally yanked her shirt off and then "took advantage" of the situation instead of, say, being ashamed and immediately covering her back up. He was very correct when he says he's hosed up, no one in their right mind would masturbate over the body of a comatose classmate.
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May 24, 2013 01:35
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Underage is in regards to the comments earlier in the thread that finding Asuka sexy could be considered normal. She's 13. Unless you're in the same age range, well, I don't know what to tell you besides that you're giving off a bit of those pedo vibes. I'll give you though that she doesn't have the curves of a 13 years old, and that she looks older. But looks can be deceiving and ultimately this brings me to... Consent. It's all about consent. Asuka didn't give Shinji consent when he masturbated to completion over her naked breasts. When you watch porn, it's implied that the creators gave their consent for you to use the content of their video, photo or otherwise, to satisfy your needs. I understand that there's a stigmata attached to porn, and that it's sometimes hard to agree on what consent is, but this thread is not the place to discuss it. Passiveness has nothing to do with it, besides the fact that passiveness does not imply consent. I am in dismay that I have to explain this.
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May 24, 2013 02:03
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bof_man posted:Underage is in regards to the comments earlier in the thread that finding Asuka sexy could be considered normal. She's 13. Unless you're in the same age range, well, I don't know what to tell you besides that you're giving off a bit of those pedo vibes. I'll give you though that she doesn't have the curves of a 13 years old, and that she looks older. But looks can be deceiving and ultimately this brings me to...
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May 24, 2013 02:30
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Point taken. Curse of Eva indeed !
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May 24, 2013 02:51
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SHISHKABOB posted:I thought he was tugging at her saying "help me Asuka" and got progressively more violent as he sank into freak-out land and then tugged a bit too hard and oh hey there. Then my bad. I didn't remember correctly the scene.
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May 24, 2013 03:25
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Neon Genesis Evangelion - Say Asuka was a very sexy classmate of yours.
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May 24, 2013 03:27
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The masturbation scene has application to merchandise and jerking off to anime characters generally but it's more broadly critical of all media's constant reinforcement of the idea that the female body belongs to men and it's somehow healthy, even desirable or affectionate, for a boy or man to take a look at a naked girl, without her knowledge, if circumstances permit. It's a frequent subject of comedy worldwide and common in anime fanservice. The message is simultaneously that women's bodies are men's right and their defense of their selves is a game or test, and that women should be on guard at all times because their bodies are a possession and they have a duty to protect it (but not for themselves, but for their rightful owner, a man). What the scene does is link the "cute" or "funny" part, the viewing of the naked body without permission, and links it to the grossness of the physical act. The point of seeing the girl naked is to jerk off to her, but virtually all media that employ the trope either ignore that or replace it with passing out or turning red or doing something funny. It's not cute or affectionate, it's a violation. The larger theme that it plays into is the media/cultural meme that female characters, and women in the real world, exist solely as prizes for men, and the most important thing about them is whether they have sex with the main character or not, and if not, why? In this way it warps around to being a critique of the audience for shipping the characters instead of paying any attention at all to Asuka's nuanced and complex psychological problems. It's a direct attack on how the audience perceives the characters, and the boldness in actually showing him masturbate hammers home the point. Also, hands in Evangelion represent the self or the soul, and by violating her this way, Shinji has soiled or stained his soul, as suggested by the lingering shot of his hand coated in semen. The point of the scene then isn't "Jerking off to anime girls is wrong" it's "Shinji doesn't care about her, and neither do you. Also jerking off to anime girls is wrong."
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May 24, 2013 03:38
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The Riddle of Feel posted:Also, hands in Evangelion represent the self or the soul, I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm interested in hearing more about this. While the Asuka scene and some other stuff in End supports this take, I'm not sure how you tie it in with, for example, the shot in the very first episode/early Rebuild 1 where Shinji looks at Rei's blood on his hand after he picks her up from falling off her stretcher. There's some similar shots where he has dirt/blood/mundane poo poo on his hands I can think of where reading Shinji as inherently blooded or dirty doesn't really make sense to me.
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May 24, 2013 04:11
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Spiritus Nox posted:I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm interested in hearing more about this. While the Asuka scene and some other stuff in End supports this take, I'm not sure how you tie it in with, for example, the shot in the very first episode/early Rebuild 1 where Shinji looks at Rei's blood on his hand after he picks her up from falling off her stretcher. There's some similar shots where he has dirt/blood/mundane poo poo on his hands I can think of where reading Shinji as inherently blooded or dirty doesn't really make sense to me. Well, that scene is kind of significant because realizing that Rei would suffer if he didn't pilot is what finally convinces him to get in the robot. I don't know about "representing the soul" but yeah, the shot definitely implies "if you refuse and make her go in your place, her blood will be on your hands."
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May 24, 2013 04:17
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As a side note to the hand chat, the booklet that came with the S2 Works soundtrack (which contains a ton* of alternate versions and unused tracks from the series and movie, and basically everything except versions of the OP or ED) has on the front cover Shinji's hand covered in blood. The back cover? Take a wild guess. *Seriously, the thing is 7 discs jam packed with tracks that often don't even have proper titles aside from alphanumeric designations, some of which seem like just test versions of eyecatch accompaniments, versions with or without certain instruments, tempo variations, etc. Some of the unused stuff, especially "Everything You Ever Dreamed" or the variations of "Komm, Susser Tod," are fantastic and it's a shame they didn't make it in.
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May 24, 2013 04:22
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Shinji's hands twitch when he's stressed or under pressure, and are stained with Rei's blood and later Misato's during moments of indecision, which spurs him to action. Gendo wears gloves that hide a raw wound. Unit One's hand is damaged in several of the fights during key moments in a way generally tied to Shinji's situation or feelings during the fight. In both of the instances where it goes berserk and defeats an angel on its own, its left hand is damaged first. Asuka's hand is split immediately before she dies, Rei's hand falls off, then regrows when she defies Gendo. The last action anyone takes other than speaking is Asuka touching Shinji with her wounded hand.
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May 24, 2013 04:25
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Hm. I don't know about the soul, but those all make enough sense as tying the hands to the self. I'd noticed the HANDS motif before, of course, just hadn't put it into words that way.
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May 24, 2013 04:28
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Aren't there mutliple scenes in the series with Shinji opening and closing his hand. I remember one in particular where he's doing his usual hand flex thing then closes his hand into a fist and goes "Alright", then promptly gets laughed at by a couple of kids. I always wondered what was up with that.
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May 24, 2013 04:30
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Zahki posted:Aren't there mutliple scenes in the series with Shinji opening and closing his hand. I remember one in particular where he's doing his usual hand flex thing then closes his hand into a fist and goes "Alright", then promptly gets laughed at by a couple of kids. I always wondered what was up with that. The first thing I thought of was this bit in the Komm Susser Tod sequence of EoE. edit: Wasn't there also a thing where when Shinji is in his introspective instrumentality stage, when he's talking to "Rei" he fuses with her hands first? I may be misremembering that but I seem to recall an instance where his hands kind of push down and into her hands and they become some weird fleshy amalgamation of each other? And then there's the end of 2.22 when he saves her, and the whole thing with pulling her out of the Eva plug in the original series. Then that gross thing (Adam) on Gendo's palm. There's a lot of things with hands in this series. HoneyBoy fucked around with this message at 04:51 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 04:42
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HoneyBoy posted:There's a lot of things with hands in this series. Don't forget palm vaginas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCLoNOYcVQU&t=319s Never forget palm vaginas.  e: to add some actual discussion fuel, re: hand pumping. Maybe it's something literal like observing yourself move your hand. 'I have the ability to do this'. I know I did it myself when I was younger after watching Eva  and I have to say as far as I can remember it helped a little bit. You're 'pumping' yourself up for something. Although, saying that now and doing it now, I seem to focus my eyes on my forearm, for 'strength' I guess, whereas Eva is just on the hands.
Zeruel fucked around with this message at 08:39 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 08:32
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I know this is back in the thread a bit, but:Tuxedo Catfish posted:I was working under the assumption that Giant Red Rei and Giant Decomposing Rei might have been the same entity. Zeruel himself isn't confusing, just what happened to his remains. Maybe Unit-01 absorbed it all, I dunno. Pretty much this. Unit-01 cracks open Zeruel/Rei's core, reaches into it and pulls out a smaller core. The rest of Zeruel promptly explodes into big ribbons of blood, which then reform into Giant Red Rei around the smaller core. In the next shot of the two, GRR is shown melting into Unit-01. The shot after that, GRR is completely absent, and Unit-01 has morphed into the giant glowy god thing with two cores and wings). There's nothing to indicate that any part of Zeruel's body was not absorbed. You could argue that something dropped off off-screen, but... I just assumed that GDR was just what became of the figure on the cross in Terminal Dogma (it's totes Lilith you guys, not Adam  ). Turning into giant Reis is what basement-cross-people do, she's in the right place and otherwise the basement-cross-person is unaccounted for. 
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May 24, 2013 10:39
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For handchat, there's also Rei asking Shinji in EoE "Then what are your hands for?"
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May 24, 2013 10:57
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Spiritus Nox posted:I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm interested in hearing more about this. Hands in general are our main ways of interacting with the world (well, except people), so they represent the will or the soul's desires/actions. In Eva-specific stuff, I think there are a lot of shots of hands when people are tanged. Maya definitely does.
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May 24, 2013 12:22
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Spiritus Nox posted:Hm. I don't know about the soul, but those all make enough sense as tying the hands to the self. I'd noticed the HANDS motif before, of course, just hadn't put it into words that way. When Maya turns into LCL we see her hand flying across the computer screen, displaying the words that Ritsuko typed.
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May 24, 2013 21:24
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There's one scene in the series where Shinji is looking at his hand and flexing it or whatever and then notices some little kids on the train giggling at him and he goes all  (I think it might be episode 14? The one where he scores well on the synch tests, the shadow angel appears and then poo poo goes to hell)
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May 24, 2013 22:05
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Man, I just saw 3.0 for the first time, and one thing is nagging me. Has anyone thought of an explanation for what the spears that Shinji pulls out are? There was only one in the TV series, but a bunch of man made ones. Are those supposed to be man made spears in Rebuild as well?
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May 24, 2013 22:31
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Giggily posted:Man, I just saw 3.0 for the first time, and one thing is nagging me. Has anyone thought of an explanation for what the spears that Shinji pulls out are? There was only one in the TV series, but a bunch of man made ones. Are those supposed to be man made spears in Rebuild as well?
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May 24, 2013 23:44
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Giggily posted:Man, I just saw 3.0 for the first time, and one thing is nagging me. Has anyone thought of an explanation for what the spears that Shinji pulls out are? There was only one in the TV series, but a bunch of man made ones. Are those supposed to be man made spears in Rebuild as well? In 2.0 we're shown that there are 4 lances for each of the 4 Adams, though we don't know for certain how many of those are Cassius-types or Longinus-types (atleast 1 Cassius type ended up on the moon, then the two Longinus spears in Lilith and Mark.06, but one or both could have been man-made copies. We just don't know at this point.)
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May 25, 2013 09:38
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I haven't started on the Rebuild movies, but what's the difference between 3.0 and 3.33 and so on? Also, I'm still up in the air with whether or not Instrumentality was a Good or Bad thing (for a binary value of Good/Bad). On the good side, Shinji became happy in a magical reality where he's accepted himself and will never feel suffering. On the bad side, that kind of fantasy world ain't healthy. Of course, EoE Shinji was a total fuckup who got the worse of both worlds, he doesn't get to chill out in the hivemind nor does he live in any kind of a liveable real world. As for the TV ending vs the EoE ending? I lean towards Anno going "gently caress it, I still get paid either way" for the former, and "gently caress you, you said you want this, you can have it!" for the latter. Fuses both (1) and (2) of this.
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May 25, 2013 14:30
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For 2.0/2.22 and 3.0/3.33 the difference is meaningless; the first is the theatrical release while the second is the BD release. The reason they're named as such goes back to 1.0, which had to be released twice on DVD/BD to correct some video quality issues (first was 1.01, the second was 1.11). They seemed to like the new name so they've stuck with it ever since. IIRC each BD release has had some added footage or adjustments made, so they're not identical to their theatrical releases.
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May 25, 2013 14:39
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I've never watched Evangelion before, but got really interested in it recently because people keep saying that Pacific Rim looks very similar, and that is a movie i'm pretty excited to see. I've watched the first two movies this week, and they were both pretty good.  I almost never watch anime ever, so it was pretty different for me.
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May 25, 2013 15:11
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Is there actually much similarity between Eva and Pacific Rim beyond the top-level thing of robots fighting aliens? I haven't paid it any attention.
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May 25, 2013 15:51
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The story and characters are suppose to have a lot of similarities. Eva was one of the series that heavily inspired the director to make Pacific Rim.
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May 25, 2013 15:56
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Also it was rumored that Pacific Rim was built on the foundation of the cancelled live action Evangelion movies that were planned.
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