|
Zettace posted:Because if he was actively deflecting things manually then he would need to calculate it faster than the speed of light. Then again, he might be able to do that because anime. "Calculating faster than light" is a sentence that makes zero sense. One is a measure of time while the other is a measure of velocity. You might instead say Accelerator needs to calculate faster than the time light takes to reach him but that's hardly impossible. Some of our CURRENT modern CPUs can have internal ALUs running at 8GHz (any 4GHz Pentium 4) meaning light only travels about 2 INCHES in the time it takes for the CPU to switch once. A superhuman who can calculate faster than super high tech super computers would be able to do it in the time it takes light to travel a couple meters through the AIM field. ChronoReverse fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 21, 2013 |
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 13:53 |
|
|
Neurons are much slower than modern transistors, it makes no sense he can stop light or lightning but that's okay because it's all basically magic anyway.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:28
|
|
|
Sindai posted:Neurons are much slower than modern transistors, it makes no sense he can stop light or lightning but that's okay because it's all basically magic anyway. Neurons can't use ESP either. You might as well argue that ESP is unrealistic. The whole point is "what if there's ESP and it's handled by super fast brain function?" I brought up modern CPUs because I wanted to demonstrate that calculating something faster than light can travel a couple meters isn't something mind-boggling.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
Now that I think about it, wouldn't accelerator get his rear end kicked by espers who's powers don't involve any movement. Like Kuroko and Misaki. Well I suppose the fact that he can stop Misaka's direct electric shocks mean that his powers are not really connected to logic.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:41
|
|
|
Accelerator's power should really called 'unbeatable by espers'. That's it.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:Accelerator's power should really called 'unbeatable by espers'. That's it.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:51
|
|
|
Pretty much. Other than that spoiler, you'd need to use indirect means like poison or suffocation. I think Misaki might be able to hurt him if he were touching a conductive object and she sent an electric current down it, but that's the only situation where she could affect him.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
Blhue posted:Pretty much. Other than that spoiler, you'd need to use indirect means like poison or suffocation. I think Misaki might be able to hurt him if he were touching a conductive object and she sent an electric current down it, but that's the only situation where she could affect him. There's some other stuff you can do and is probably why he isn't targeted the American's or something.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
Fightest posted:So what's the justification on Accelerator deflecting lightning bolts? Projectiles I can understand, but a lightning strike is a speed-of-light discharge. Considering that technobabble is apparently a thing in the source material, I'm wondering why he hasn't been fried yet. Lightning does not actually travel at the speed of light, just as a quick aside.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 21:15
|
|
|
tonberrytoby posted:Now that I think about it, wouldn't accelerator get his rear end kicked by espers who's powers don't involve any movement. Like Kuroko and Misaki. Discussion on the technobabble of teleportation and Accelerator's powers follows. My Understanding of the Index universe is kind of scatter-shot since I mostly skim to the fight scenes in the light novel translations and then check up the more spectacular ones in the manga/anime versions when I can bother, so I'm not sure if this is a spoiler or not. Though I've tried to avoid mentioning any plot points that happen after the most recent episode. If I remember correctly, teleportation ESP in the Index universe is movement through the dimensions other than the usual 3, so Accelerator can still reverse the movement vectors of teleportation that would affect him.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 21:24
|
|
|
tonberrytoby posted:Now that I think about it, wouldn't accelerator get his rear end kicked by espers who's powers don't involve any movement. Like Kuroko and Misaki. Teleporters like Kuroko aren't actually instant movement, but rather "11th dimensional" movement that allows them to bypass matter and seemingly without any movement time. But at the end of the day it's still movement and has a vector, so if his brain can adapt to it Accelerator's power can theoretically manipulate it. That being said, his reflection hasn't been put to the test against a teleporter in the books yet so it's all theoretical at this point. Misaki's mind control is an unknown, but given that Misaka's EM field can block it, it's probably electrically based and is therefore a vector that would be picked up by Accelerator's automatic reflection. Even if it did take hold, Accelerator's proved that he has the ability to directly manipulate the vectors of things like bloodflow and neural pathways within his own body so there's a good chance he could beat it that way. Fightest posted:So what's the justification on Accelerator deflecting lightning bolts? Projectiles I can understand, but a lightning strike is a speed-of-light discharge. Considering that technobabble is apparently a thing in the source material, I'm wondering why he hasn't been fried yet. I don't think they've technobabbled how his brain can calculate against vectors that move at the speed of light, but presumably there's either something at work or just lazy writing on the part of the author. But if we want to get nitty-gritty about it, his standard reflection is automatically set to always-on so it doesn't require conscious thought on his part. Furthermore in this case there's nothing saying that it's necessarily instant. If Misaka's manipulating the static charges of the area, his subconscious could pick up on those vectors before the actual flow of electrons occurs with the visible spark. In any event, his vector calculation ability tends to have to do less than the speed of the vector but whether he can correctly identify the type of vector it is, and he's certainly been subjected to electrical charges before. Exceptions he has trouble reflecting are stuff like (light Index spoilers)#2's Dark Matter ability or vectors generated by magic Considering some of the other esper abilities out there, there's a good chance his calculations are being performed on an 11th dimensional level or something and just bypass the normal flow of time. Problem solved.  veekie posted:It's why he's that pasty color anyway. Sunlight, pah. That is indeed why he's so pasty. His automatic reflection reflects most non-visible wavelengths of light so he gets no UV rays at all. He could probably reflect visible wavelengths too but then no light would reach his eyes and he wouldn't be able to see. Lucy Heartfilia posted:Accelerator's power should really called 'unbeatable by espers'. That's it. tonberrytoby posted:I thought it was unbeatable by everyone expect for (index spoiler)? He can deflect bullets and explosions, after all. Basically it's just that when it comes to other Espers, he's already been calculated as the most powerful one, presumably by Tree Diagram, which doesn't gently caress around when it comes to calculating poo poo. While he might be able to be beaten by certain non-esper poo poo, or if mitigating circumstances are very bad for him, in a normal fight he won't be beaten by any other existing esper.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 21:25
|
|
|
tonberrytoby posted:Now that I think about it, wouldn't accelerator get his rear end kicked by espers who's powers don't involve any movement. Like Kuroko and Misaki. He's still vulnerable to magic and Touma's bullshit hand though.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 21:27
|
|
|
I guess someone with ice powers could get him. He can't redirect energy gradients if they're not pointed at him, so freeze the moisture in the air around him and make a human popsicle.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 23:04
|
|
|
Fightest posted:I guess someone with ice powers could get him. He can't redirect energy gradients if they're not pointed at him, so freeze the moisture in the air around him and make a human popsicle. He's also claimed that he wouldn't survive a nuke because all the air around him would be blown away and he'd suffocate. anything that targets his surroundings should be fairly effective, although I don't think freezing would work since all he has to do is touch it to break free.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 23:09
|
|
|
Fightest posted:I guess someone with ice powers could get him. He can't redirect energy gradients if they're not pointed at him, so freeze the moisture in the air around him and make a human popsicle. He'd be absolutely fine. It's a temperature gradient but the actual flow of heat has a vector. Thermodynamics has nothing on Accelerator. As for the nuke thing, if he were taken by surprise, Accelerator would probably suffocate before finding breathable air again but if he were ready, I don't see why he couldn't expand the protect zone beyond point blank to the point where he'd have a couple minutes of breathable air. He's such a broken character by definition that I sometimes get tempted to read Index to see why people seem to think he's an interesting character.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2013 23:31
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:He'd be absolutely fine. It's a temperature gradient but the actual flow of heat has a vector. Thermodynamics has nothing on Accelerator. I'm sure we will go into it once the current arc is over. For now, anything in-depth would spoil the ending.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
He's also immune to disease, no doubt, as that would require a delivery vector 
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2013 08:32
|
|
|
Fightest posted:He's also immune to disease, no doubt, as that would require a delivery vector No that is fairly correct, if the disease can't touch him it can't do poo poo, even if something got in he can manipulate inside his body and just fry their fragile viral/bacterial bodies.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2013 08:39
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:As for the nuke thing, if he were taken by surprise, Accelerator would probably suffocate before finding breathable air again but if he were ready, I don't see why he couldn't expand the protect zone beyond point blank to the point where he'd have a couple minutes of breathable air. He's such a broken character by definition that I sometimes get tempted to read Index to see why people seem to think he's an interesting character. Or he can hold his breath and jump out of the blast zone. Depends on how fast he can move before running out of air. For the reflection, I think it's some kind of psychic app running in the background. It's ultimately a very simple process(reverse all directional incoming vectors), and requires nearly no human intervention, so it can happen near-instantaneously the moment it contacts him. Of course, any automated process can be manipulated. Mainly he grows as a character after the events of Sisters though.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 07:02
|
|
|
He can't expand the field because his power only works on things touching him. Which doesn't make too much sense when you think about it for any length of time, but that's how it is. It has a range limitation. Regarding "psychic apps", there are actually a pair of minor characters who as part of their backstory had their brain patterns messed with in an experiment to recreate Accelerator mentally. In the hopes of mass producing Level 5s. Anyway, the experiment failed, but they succeeded in transplanting his auto-protect "app" to one of the girls, who uses it with her "control air" ability to create a solid wall of air at close range whenever something's about to hit her. Well, I guess that's only the trigger condition but it was still transplanted. So yeah, it's basically confirmed that it's an unconscious thought pattern.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 10:21
|
|
|
veekie posted:Or he can hold his breath and jump out of the blast zone. Depends on how fast he can move before running out of air. Otherwise some of Meltdown's or Misaka's power would hit him. He does become less comic book villain like, later. But never enough for me to find him interesting.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 10:33
|
|
|
tonberrytoby posted:The discussion here started with saying he needs to be faster than near-instantaneously. It needs to be faster than instantaneously even. I demonstrated that fast as light is, it's nowhere near instantaneous. It's not beyond the reach of modern computers to do a few calculations in the time it takes light to travel a meter, much less some crazy super ESP dude. The speed of light only represents a roadblock to velocity.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 15:06
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:I demonstrated that fast as light is, it's nowhere near instantaneous. It's not beyond the reach of modern computers to do a few calculations in the time it takes light to travel a meter, much less some crazy super ESP dude. The speed of light only represents a roadblock to velocity. He either needs to begin calculation before the shot enters his detection range, or send his calculations backwards in time, or transmit information faster then light. All of which are physically equivalent. All would be abilities that would be considered much more amazing then his vector control in a true hard science setting.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 15:25
|
|
|
tonberrytoby posted:He either needs to begin calculation before the shot enters his detection range, or send his calculations backwards in time, or transmit information faster then light. This is a world with magic and teleportation. The entire concept of ESP is a handwave in the first place. Being able to acquire information from his AIM field instantly (in violation of the light speed limit) is hardly a stretch. Especially when we're talking about Accelerator who completely violates physics in the first place. The only thing that's necessary is for it to be internally consistent. The story establishes from the beginning that Accelerator will bend anything coming at him, period. If you want to kill catgirls, then that means he must be able to acquire information about incomings faster than light. It's not like this is the only handwave done in Railgun (it's not really "hard scifi"). Misaka can see individual electrons. That's just as impossible as breaking the speed of light in our world (and not because we don't have a microscope powerful enough). ChronoReverse fucked around with this message at 15:36 on May 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 15:31
|
|
|
Novel spoilers(from all over, so if you aren't up to date, ignore this): It's been pretty consistently hinted that ESP is ultimately a different approach to magic. Specifically, it's extremely similar to Telesmic magic, which also puts severe limitations on their wielders' ability to use regular spells and allow their users a number of highly versatile abilities, based off a specific attribute each time. Rather than drawing power down from a powerful entity by imitating them in specific ways, you skip the imitating bit and start developing your own power sources. Five-Over technology meanwhile allows the powers of Level 5s to be imitated in a pretty similar process to calling down magic power from an angel. Add to that Index's claims of some of the scientific theories being similar to magical principles and you get a pretty large implicit picture. Funny enough, Aleister Crowley was kinda the leading authority on Telesmic Magic before he turned to Science. And he's the Final Boss of Academy City so... Short version: ESP is basically magic. Only the non-AIM based technology is legitimately Science.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 17:57
|
|
|
veekie posted:Short version: ESP is basically magic. Only the non-AIM based technology is legitimately Science. 
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 19:48
|
|
|
Next week's episode preview shows Misaka fighting espers. Looks like the city is fighting back with their big guns now.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2013 20:04
|
|
|
I thought that the head scientist would use the Misaka clones to stop her from attacking the labs since she'd be pretty hesistant to hurt her own clones if they were defending the place, but ESPer fights seem cool too.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2013 04:40
|
|
|
Wow, that was pretty good for a 'fluff' episode. I definitely appreciated seeing Kuroko being as earnest as she was - underneath all of that comic sexual harassment, she really does care. 
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2013 06:13
|
|
|
Not happy about zero action until the last 30 seconds. But I can get behind terrorist Misaka.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2013 09:41
|
|
|
Looks mostly like she's trying to keep her friends out of the dark side of the city, they know she's making GBS threads them but figure to just help her get over whatever it is.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2013 09:53
|
|
|
Finally. I do consider Misaka's fight agains Meltdown's crew ( The girls from the intro/preview) to be the best fight in all the indexverse stories. I do like how they cut between Misaka's action an her friend's casual live. Especially Kuroko's and Misak's relationship. They play it for laughs often, but it is really a beautiful friendship there.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2013 13:44
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:It's not like this is the only handwave done in Railgun (it's not really "hard scifi"). Misaka can see individual electrons. That's just as impossible as breaking the speed of light in our world (and not because we don't have a microscope powerful enough). Doesn't this fit in very well though the Schrodinger Cat explanation? Since she "observes" them, in effect she's able to manipulate them by observing them in the state she wishes them to be in?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 16:24
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:Doesn't this fit in very well though the Schrodinger Cat explanation? Since she "observes" them, in effect she's able to manipulate them by observing them in the state she wishes them to be in? Schrodinger's Cat is just a thought experiment about a different quantum quirk. Uncertainty principle, however, literally means that if we try to observe something that small, we alter it in an unpredictable manner. The harder we try to observe accurately, the worse it is. So to "know" the exact state of an electron, like Misaka does, requires "magic" or in this case, ESP.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 17:04
|
|
|
All the level 5 Espers have secondary powers that are just as impressive as their primary powers. Misaka's Hacking/observation, Accelerator's calculations, (Manga Spoilers)Meltdown's Focus. In all those cases the Authors don't even try to hide this stuff with technobabble. It is just magic. They are all much better magicians then the actual magicians.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 17:18
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:Schrodinger's Cat is just a thought experiment about a different quantum quirk. In Index it was brought up by one of the teachers as an explanation for ESP and how personal reality works.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:In Index it was brought up by one of the teachers as an explanation for ESP and how personal reality works. It's just technobabble really. Clap your hands if you believe 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
ChronoReverse posted:He'd be absolutely fine. It's a temperature gradient but the actual flow of heat has a vector. Thermodynamics has nothing on Accelerator. Serious Frolicking posted:I'm sure we will go into it once the current arc is over. For now, anything in-depth would spoil the ending. If I had to say why people like him without spoiling anything, I guess I'd just say that he probably gets a more substantial arc of character development than any other character in the series, especially since most of Index's million characters are active for about one arc or so and then are lucky to even appear regularly, much less continue to grow and develop. Also, his ability is so broken it lends itself nicely to inane power-level arguments.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 07:55
|
|
|
Bakanogami posted:Also, his ability is so broken it lends itself nicely to inane power-level arguments. The key question of course, being whether Shiki can kill Accelerator.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 11:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 13:53 |
|
|
arhra posted:The key question of course, being whether Shiki can kill Accelerator. Well that depends on whether Accelerator can figure out how to change the vectors of the Lines and ahahahah what am I talking about Ahhh, Episode 7. This was the kind of episode that I just don't remember seeing in Index. Seeing the "home front" fleshed out away from Railgun's unilateral black ops and Kuroko taking over the narrative reminded me why this was how I was pulled into the franchise to begin with.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 15:02
|
|
