|
Attack of the Clones is actually the best of the prequels, and the second or third best Star Wars film overall (it's been a while since I've watched Empire Strikes Back, so it's not too fresh in my memory).
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 02:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 15:33 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Attack of the Clones is actually the best of the prequels, and the second or third best Star Wars film overall (it's been a while since I've watched Empire Strikes Back, so it's not too fresh in my memory). You've never watched the other 2 original films besides Empire, have you?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 03:02
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla is my favorite poster on these forums. I don't even mean that ironically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 03:08
|
|
|
You have to admit that everything between Anakin's arrival on the planet of the death star building bugmen through to the Yoda fight is pretty good, no matter how clumsy the rest of it is. I liked John Carter too, so maybe I'm just a sucker for botched arena executions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 03:12
|
|
|
John Carter was a flaming sack of poo poo but it was still more entertaining than all 3 Star Wars prequels.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 03:17
|
|
|
TheBigBudgetSequel posted:The score to Tintin proves that Williams still loving has it. I'd rather him do it than Giacchino try to imitate him. Giacchino's whole career has been an imitation of Williams (plus Bill Conti, with dashes of Goldsmith and Elfman). I do not mean this insultingly, because someone has to continue that sound after Williams dies. http://youtubedoubler.com/8s19 (applicable for the first minute or so)
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 04:13
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:You've never watched the other 2 original films besides Empire, have you? I've watched all six of the main Star Wars movies, along with all three special editions (which I consider to be distinctly different films) - but I haven't seen the unaltered Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi since the days of VHS. With that in mind, the original, unaltered Star Wars is my current favorite, followed by Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 04:27
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:John Carter was a flaming sack of poo poo but it was still more entertaining than all 3 Star Wars prequels. The more time that passes the less I like Episode 1 and 2 for various reasons. I still admire Episode 3 for the wisdom of Sidious. quote:Supreme Chancellor: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the Jedi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 05:17
|
|
|
That was probably the best performance in any Star Wars film.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 08:07
|
|
|
If episode III was from Palpatine's point of view it would be a great movie. Like half the movie would be him sitting around in his office, but it would still be amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 08:11
|
|
|
Could we get Mads Mikkelsen as a Star Wars villain?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 08:30
|
|
|
Personperson14 posted:If episode III was from Palpatine's point of view it would be a great movie. Like half the movie would be him sitting around in his office, but it would still be amazing. The story of the prequels from palpatine's point of view would have made a better series then what we received. Though as terribly made as the prequels were, the plot elements would be more acceptable if instead of treating the characters in the prequels as people. We treat them as extentions of palpatine's will, like a puppet play with the old man's hands in everyone's mouth as well as propelling the story.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 08:54
|
|
|
Geekboy posted:I literally went home after the movie was over and started boxing up my Star Wars toys. A part of me died when Amidala delivered that line about how a piece of her had died every day since she met Anakin. I genuinely believe this was the intended effect. TPM's main failure was that it didn't go far enough to provoke this response (Lucas underestimated his fanbase's borderline religious fervour for the fantasy).
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 12:15
|
|
|
sassassin posted:I genuinely believe this was the intended effect. You think that Lucas would make a film specifically designed to kill off love for the franchise? I don't think you understand how business works...
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 12:48
|
|
|
General Dog posted:That was probably the best performance in any Star Wars film. I love how the instant he gets busted as the Sith Lord, his voice instantly becomes hilariously evil sounding, Ian McDiarmid must have been having a huge amount of fun hamming it up like that (particularly the UUUUUNLIIIMITED POWWWEEEERRRRRRRRR!!! bit)
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 12:53
|
|
|
More than the obvious business disincentives, I think the biggest argument for skepticism towards the claim that any sequel was made specifically against people who liked the original too much - is that it is still basically the same old grandiose delusion that obsessive fans matter more than ordinary people because of their devotion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 12:56
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:More than the obvious business disincentives, I think the biggest argument for skepticism towards the claim that any sequel was made specifically against people who liked the original too much - is that it is still basically the same old grandiose delusion that obsessive fans matter more than ordinary people because of their devotion. Lucas already has more money than God, and 'ordinary people' are exactly the audiences that consider CGI Yoda and princess Amidala to be genuine heroes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 13:20
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Lucas already has more money than God, and 'ordinary people' are exactly the audiences that consider CGI Yoda and princess Amidala to be genuine heroes. And they are genuine heroes. Poorly written in places, and the argument can be made that we didn't really need to see Yoda's combat prowess, but there's nothing wrong with the characters in concept. (And Portman is one of the better actors of the prequels; she was just stuck with some really shoddy dialog to deliver)
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 14:03
|
|
|
Judge Ito Boxing posted:Giacchino's whole career has been an imitation of Williams (plus Bill Conti, with dashes of Goldsmith and Elfman). I do not mean this insultingly, because someone has to continue that sound after Williams dies. His Pixar scores (The Incredibles, Up) are some of the best I've heard, he did an incredible job with Lost's musical motifs and Star Trek (and Into Darkness) had awesome music. I'd like to hear him do Star Wars instead of Williams for the same reason I'd rather see Jjabrams direct than Lucas: A New Voice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Attack of the Clones is actually the best of the prequels, and the second or third best Star Wars film overall (it's been a while since I've watched Empire Strikes Back, so it's not too fresh in my memory). Your jedi mind tricks will not work on me, boy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 17:42
|
|
|
jivjov posted:And they are genuine heroes [...] in concept.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 19:54
|
|
|
Attack of the Clones is the most technically flawed of all the SW films, but it has a lot that fascinates me. I think the basic story of how the Clone Wars get kicked off is a good one that feels like how history often unfolds (that it came out during the run-up to the Iraq war was a nice bit of fortuitous timing.) There's a nice frission when the cavalry shows up, but they're all stormtroopers shooting mini-Death-Star guns and riding in Imperial Walkers, and it clicks into place- "This is how it started."
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 20:07
|
|
|
Attack of the Clones was the only PT movie I never saw in theaters, and until I saw it on TV years later my only exposure to it was the novelization I got from one of those Scholastic elementary school book catalogs. I enjoyed the book enough, or at least I thought it was more fun than The Phantom Menace (which I remember disliking as soon as I'd left the theater, even though I was about eight years old).
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 20:30
|
|
|
jivjov posted:You think that Lucas would make a film specifically designed to kill off love for the franchise? I don't think you understand how business works... Not the franchise, specifically the merchandising.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 20:33
|
|
|
AotC would've been good if everything wasn't so sterile, wooden, and boring. The idea that Sidious ended up using the army that Sifo-Dyas ordered to help the Republic fight the Sith is cool (although, the movie makes it sound like Sidious posed as Dyas). Somehow, Lucas turned it into the most boring movie in the series. We know Anakin becomes Darth Vader, but we're supposed to care about his betrayal. Ep II should have established how Anakin and Obi-wan were such great friends, setting up for his betrayal in Ep III and our (expected) disappointment in him. As it stands, all we get is a whiney teen who complains about his Don't even get me started on the forced attraction between Anakin and Padme. Gah.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:It's pretty mindblowing to me that you were even able to keep it up during the scene in which Anakin talks about killing all the women and children. I got my first handy during Empire 
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 21:28
|
|
|
Pope Mobile posted:AotC would've been good if everything wasn't so sterile, wooden, and boring. The idea that Sidious ended up using the army that Sifo-Dyas ordered to help the Republic fight the Sith is cool (although, the movie makes it sound like Sidious posed as Dyas). Somehow, Lucas turned it into the most boring movie in the series. Where is it established that we're not 'supposed' to think Anakin is a whiny chucklefuck? Anakin's a former slave thrust knee deep into a cult, who has to call the only friend that he is allowed to have 'Master'. He's also a person that will end up burning it all down, then find himself in another cult, and burn that down too. If you want him to be genuinely charismatic and cool - or even a normal human being - I think that's your baggage. sassassin fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 21:34
|
|
|
I don't think I buy into the "intentionally bad" theory on the prequels per se, but it does seem almost seem like Lucas felt people had lost sight of the pastiche elements of the original trilogy and consequently turned them up to eleven in the PT. Lucas may not be the finest writer/director out there, but there's no way he could create something like this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SqTR0DorSw or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FFVWEQnSM -with no self-awareness whatsoever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 21:37
|
|
|
General Dog posted:That was probably the best performance in any Star Wars film. I admire him being a master manipulator Whoever wrote all his lines is great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R09jFWQVrE0 Becoming Sidious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjdycGgeaIY
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 22:02
|
|
|
I just noticed that Padme wears poo poo on her head that suggests a halo a lot.  sassassin posted:Where is it established that we're not 'supposed' to think Anakin is a whiny chucklefuck? People expected the story of the man who became Darth Vader to be sweeping and grand, so when the character doesn't fit that, he must be wrong somehow. They view it as a mistake rather than a choice not to portray him that way. I don't really know how I feel about the prequels anymore. All of the criticisms seem correct, but I liked them when I was watching them in the theater. They were entertaining enough at the time, and the stupidity seemed... charming, somehow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
Miltank posted:I got my first handy during Empire Star Wars: Pointy "Spaceships" 
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 22:12
|
|
|
General Dog posted:That was probably the best performance in any Star Wars film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og9tIQtmxko
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 22:58
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What is the concept? Padme is a strong capable woman who gets action scenes just like the male characters do(at least in the first two of the prequels. I can give Ep.3 a bit of a pass since she was pregnant, but they made he a bit too vapid in that one) She also is a strong political leader, especially in the formation of the Rebellion scenes that sadly got cut from the final cut of Ep.3 Yoda is the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order. It stands to reason that he would have some skill with a blade. I think the films went a bit overboard with the flipping through the air, but it makes a striking visual. I could make a waaaaay too  post about the shortsightedness of the Jedi Order, but I'll keep it brief: his "no attachment" dogma makes a certain amount of sense, but not for an organization the size of the Jedi Order, especially when they are as directly involved in galactic politics and war as they are.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
Lando and Palpatine are the only people in the Star Wars universe who seem to get any joy out of life.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:04
|
|
|
The Riddle of Feel posted:I just noticed that Padme wears poo poo on her head that suggests a halo a lot. It doesn't feel right because the only things we knew about Anakin were that he and Obi were best friends and he was a great pilot. Also that he wanted his son to have his lightsaber. We only see one of those things (being a pilot) in the prequels. Edit: Was there any other things? I can't think of one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:11
|
|
|
General Dog posted:Lando and Palpatine are the only people in the Star Wars universe who seem to get any joy out of life. The originals are peppered with moments of small joy - from Han teasing Luke about "a girl like her and a guy like me" to Biggs and Luke hugging in the hanger. That stuff was all sapped off in the prequels which is a large part of why they feel so mausoleumic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:26
|
|
|
penismightier posted:The originals are peppered with moments of small joy - from Han teasing Luke about "a girl like her and a guy like me" to Biggs and Luke hugging in the hanger. That stuff was all sapped off in the prequels which is a large part of why they feel so mausoleumic. It makes you wonder what changed. Lucas wrote the screenplay for the original Star Wars, which is about as carefree and snappy as the series ever was. Compare that the the bone dry prequels, which he also wrote, and it makes you wonder if age just changed him or if he was aiming for something else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:32
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Padme is a strong capable woman who gets action scenes just like the male characters do(at least in the first two of the prequels. I can give Ep.3 a bit of a pass since she was pregnant, but they made he a bit too vapid in that one) She also is a strong political leader, especially in the formation of the Rebellion scenes that sadly got cut from the final cut of Ep.3 No, I mean: what is the concept?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:51
|
|
|
General Dog posted:It makes you wonder what changed. Lucas wrote the screenplay for the original Star Wars, which is about as carefree and snappy as the series ever was. Compare that the the bone dry prequels, which he also wrote, and it makes you wonder if age just changed him or if he was aiming for something else. His first writes were awful. He had a lot of help from his then wife and a studio looking over his shoulder. Basically there were people willing to tell him NO, that sucks. Even then it took some good actors to sell it. To be fair, when you remove his negatives and restrain him, he can produce compelling visuals - Star Wars really was something else especially in 1977. It's probably no co-incidence the best movie of the series was Empire, where he was not the director.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2013 23:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 15:33 |
|
|
The prequels end with the triumph of evil. It stands to reason that every hero in 'em should have a tragic flaw explaining why they couldn't stop it from happening. That extends even to Padme, who - at least as far as I can tell given how these movies are bad at establishing characters strongly - easily trusts (and gains the trust of) anybody who claims to be on her side. This helps her make the powerful alliances that bring down the Trade Federation and Chancellor Valorum, but also means she could never have anticipated Palpatine's or Anakin's betrayal. She understands the importance of getting to know people from multiple perspectives, and tends to accomplish this through the use of a body double (which also helps baffle her enemies' attempts to do the same), but after her body double is killed, she's unable to perceive anybody's true intentions. Yoda's got something more interesting going on, of course, and it's most visible because of the fact that we can see in the original trilogy how the events of the prequels changed him. But his tragic flaw is simple: he's just got plain old hubris. Jedi are supposed to be humble, and he isn't, and that failure of his pervades the entire Order. The fact that the Jedi made crappy old hermit robes into their apparent uniform is maybe too strong a metaphor for how they put on airs of humility and mistake it for the real thing. And if you're talking about the central tragedy, consider Anakin's downfall. He was nothing when the Jedi found him; whatever he became, it's because that's what they made him into. You'd think it would be easy for a slave boy who loves his mother to learn how to be humble, but evidently not: the monster he became was arrogant in the extreme. He felt that he was superior to other Jedi and that the teachings were beneath him, and he found he had the power to dispense death as he saw fit; he gave himself entirely over to Palpatine because he truly believed that he could defy fate and stave off mortality. Yoda's hubris is directly echoed in Anakin's, and they were both punished for it. Yoda went into exile and learned the true meaning of humility as a swamp-dwelling hermit, and Anakin was left utterly alone and returned to slavery: fate (Clotho) left the boy in thrall to Watto, and fate (Nemesis) indentured the man to Palpatine. (Thus his second liberation was greater and more miraculous than his first, and the two of them bookend the entire hexalogy.) I'm not sure where I'm going with that, other than that the prequels' stories deserved better scripts than they got.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2013 00:06
|
|