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Nolaterif
Jan 10, 2003

Genpei Turtle posted:

Sure it's a bad thing. To us, 21st century modern people. To Og/Enkidel? If his society was cannibalistic that taboo surely wasn't as ingrained into him as it would be to us. His mom was surely against it but for the great majority of Og's life she was just some nice lady that lived with his uncle. Same thing goes with his dad beating him for disobedience--that's a bad thing to us, (well, bad but not shocking to me since when I was a kid it was something pretty much all parents did) but to him it would just be a "normal" thing for a village elder to do since he doesn't have any outside reference to indicate otherwise.

I think people voting to just change cultures like we'd change our socks are undervaluing the impact of Og's upbringing up until this point. Our whole life we've known nothing but the sea and Asherah and life in a primitive fishing village. Jalitha and her culture was definitely a wildcard, but given her limited contact with us during 90% of our "aware" life its impact would be minimal. Unless Og's extremely unlike the majority of kids ever, regardless of how he was treated he probably loved the people he thought were his parents more than Jalitha--they were the ones that raised him, not her. The sudden revelation that she's in fact his Real Mom wouldn't be cause for him to go "oh, OK, well gently caress my 'fake' parents/culture/life then." Hell, kids that are outright abused and not fed and have to be taken away by CPS are often distraught at having to be separated from their parents even though it's the best thing for them.

Based on what we know about the game in a larger-picture point of view it may well be smarter to go side with El since he's probably more powerful than Asherah, (then again, who knows what the real story is?) but it's a lot less realistic as something that you'd imagine what a kid in Og's shoes would do. It's a much more metagamey decision than something that actually makes sense.

That's kind of why I was conflicted about it IRL. The Og/Enkidel in my head is loyal to people, and it wouldn't be easy to simply give up everything. It wasn't an easy decision, and I imagine him very much believing that both Asherah and El are real. However, I figure he'd go off what his senses are telling him:
1) We know that people didn't come back, whether or not they were being eaten. (The Og/Enkidel in my head doesn't quite believe it. Jorah wouldn't eat people!)
2) We know that Asherah is the fish who constantly hungers. We were taught to remember "His hunger was great."
3) As per ex-dad, people who please Asherah end up as fish. Those who don't get eaten. The Og/Enkidel in my head believed ex-dad when he said that. Even if you do everything right, you end up the way Asherah wants you to.
4) If we pleased ex-dad, we were praised slightly. If we didn't, we were beat up. In contrast, Tudiya took us in and seems like a decent guy.

I imagine he's still loyal to Jorah and Pagem. But they're people, not Asherah. My Og/Enkidel definitely believes that Asherah exists, but views him with fear instead of loyalty. El's big thing was "It was good" and Tudiya seems like a decent guy. Though I imagine Og/Enkidel conflicted by the idea that Tudiya killed Shushem, overall Tudiya/El seem more deserving of loyalty. It's true that 11 year olds aren't known to be a rational actors who always act in their best interests, but everything stacked up in my head.

As far as running off with Jalitha and Tudiya, well, I didn't vote for that. I'm making the best of the situation.

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SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




andrew smash posted:

Either way, village history indicates Jalitha washed up on shore about a year before Og's birth.

Assuming that Shushem told the truth is kind of silly on this topic, considering the reveals we've had regarding parentage. He had every reason to lie about our birth, and no one had any real incentive to tell us anything considering everyone feared him. Jalitha, on the other hand, has seemingly told the truth about most everything. There are other indications beyond her word about the cannibalism, about her being our mother, and the truth of the big villages has been confirmed.

Basically, we pretty much know Jalitha hasn't lied about anything we can actually somewhat confirm. Similarly, we know Shushem wasn't entirely honest about our birth.

HiHo ChiRho posted:

He basically ignored us for the first four or five years until we were useful to him. Not exactly parenting but more of being his tool.

Also this. Shushem never really took the time or effort to create parental bonds. They only really began to develop when we began our apprenticeship to him, and I never felt they were very strong to begin with. Even when we voted to spend time with him it was very clear in updates that we did it out of duty to the village and fear. Prior to that we actively avoided him because we didn't particularly love him.

eta: Also, to people wondering why we didn't go with the Baitel start, because this start is demonstrably different to the Baitel start. For starters, we aren't going to Baitel. We will also occupy a completely different place in society, have a completely different back-story, and a different skill-set.

SerSpook fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 4, 2013

Successful Businessmanga
Mar 28, 2010

FoxTerrier posted:

Hey Porpoise, I think my vote accidentally got put down as Not B instead of Not A. (If I'm reading your badass chart correctly. Can't tell if that'll make any difference though, so might be a moot point.) :)

My bad! Fixed it posthaste. I know how it happened too earlier I recorded your second vote and not your first so when I fixed it i was in a rush to get out the door. :saddowns:

Unless a bunch of people suddenly switch to H, A has it pretty cinched up.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007

Beaky the Tortoise says, click here to join our choose Your Own Adventure Game!

Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens!

As Tudiya instructed you to, you bow your head and thank El for the food you are about to eat and for protection from monsters and beasts.

Tudiya seems pleased by this and smiles towards, your mother interprets his words. "The king says that now we eat." The servant woman Kezza takes a knife made out of some odd material which flickers in the light of the fire and cuts off bits of meat from the roasting spit. Tudiya is served first, then Ishamal the oldest of the group with his gray balding hair, then Barkof, then the rest of the men, Danal, Kezza serves herself, your mother, then you.

As you eat, you lean over to Danal, take his hand and put it over your heart. You try to carefully compose your words, which might have come out, in his language, something like this: "Danal goodest friend, alldays friend".

Tudiya smiles and seems pleased, Barkof says something, probably about you and the other men all laugh, Danal seems happy, he says something you don't understand and gives you a hug. Kezza says something to your mother who responds and seems pleased.

After dinner the men play some game with stones and a piece of wood, drink an odd smelling liquid and sing loudly.

Tents are set up. You, your mother and Kezza share a tent.

You go to sleep to the sound of strange insects, creatures and monsters near and far, the forest is noisy even in the dead of night.

Some time later, you are awoken by someone shaking you. It is still the dead of night. It is Danal. He holds a finger over his mouth to gesture to be silent, a gesture your own people use as well. Your mother and Kezza are still sleeping beside you. You follow Danal out of the tent, quietly.

One of the men is sitting by the fire, asleep. No one else seems to be awake.

Very quietly Danal whispers in an excited tone "Enkidu!" and points to you. He points to himself and quietly says "Labaras!" He points to a spear one of the men left by the fire, points to you and then into the forest and says a word you do know in his tongue, from your mother's many stories. "Heroes!"

He grabs your hand and tries to drag you to the spear.

He is five or six and you are eleven, though you are both tall for your ages. You hear many insects and strange creatures moving in the night.

You...


OPTION A - Are going to be a hero just like Enkidu from your mother's stories! Grab the spear and head off with your new best friend to ADVENTURE!

OPTION B - Think this is a terrible idea but you don't want to let Danal down, so you grab the spear and go.

OPTION C - Think this is a terrible idea but you don't want to let Danal get hurt and are afraid he will go alone without you, so you grab the spear and go.

OPTION D - Have been served up a chance to avenge your father on a silver platter. It is the middle of the night. You will sneak out with Danal and sacrafice him to Asherah then sneak back into your tent and pretend you never left. No one will know it was you, if they even find Danal at all.

OPTION E - Shake your head, point to his tent and refuse.

OPTION F - Pretend to agree but then make a noise by "accident" to wake an adult and get you caught. Ideally they will just think you are talking and you won't get in trouble. You will hope Danal does not realize what you did because he is a little kid.

OPTION G - Intentionally and obviously wake an adult - who?

OPTION H - Go back to your tent and say nothing.

OPTION I - Say something to Danal. Specify what. Keep it short and simple, if you are lucky, I will translate it into very broken English but you may not be able to say anything at all. Your vocabulary is very limited.

OPTION J - Something else. Write in.

A, B, C and D all are the same actions, for now, with different motivations. A composite A B C D vote will beat others if they win the vote and we will work out what you do and your motivations after you sneak away, if you do so, successfully. G and H also present multiple choices, the combined votes of all choices for G or H can also win, even if any single option loses to another letter.

Diogines fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jun 4, 2013

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

SerSpook posted:

Also this. Shushem never really took the time or effort to create parental bonds. They only really began to develop when we began our apprenticeship to him, and I never felt they were very strong to begin with. Even when we voted to spend time with him it was very clear in updates that we did it out of duty to the village and fear. Prior to that we actively avoided him because we didn't particularly love him.

Again this isn't how parental bonds work and is applying 21st century morality to a primitive society. A distant, authoritarian father who largely ignores his child in his earliest years? That describes most fathers in pretty much every culture ever until the very, very recent past, and somehow people got by without resenting their dads for not being more nice to them. The idea that we wouldn't love our dad because he wasn't nice to us is a product of our modern culture where fathers are expected to share in the role of direct nurturer. Og would likely have no such expectation, especially considering the background we've been given in that in his society, husbands rule their wives and children as supreme authority. In that context there's nothing strange whatsoever about a father being stern and distant, it's just the way things are since he's in charge. Fear of our father is natural given Og's circumstances. Dislike or even antipathy is not.

Zybourne Clock
Oct 25, 2011

Poke me.
A is for adventure. We may get caught, but since we don't have a house right now I doubt we'll get grounded.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Genpei Turtle posted:

Again this isn't how parental bonds work and is applying 21st century morality to a primitive society. A distant, authoritarian father who largely ignores his child in his earliest years? That describes most fathers in pretty much every culture ever until the very, very recent past, and somehow people got by without resenting their dads for not being more nice to them. The idea that we wouldn't love our dad because he wasn't nice to us is a product of our modern culture where fathers are expected to share in the role of direct nurturer. Og would likely have no such expectation, especially considering the background we've been given in that in his society, husbands rule their wives and children as supreme authority. In that context there's nothing strange whatsoever about a father being stern and distant, it's just the way things are since he's in charge. Fear of our father is natural given Og's circumstances. Dislike or even antipathy is not.

Other villagers also reacted to Shushem's beating of Jalitha in shock too, so Shushem's treatment of her (and likely us) does not appear to be the cultural norm. We can also see the treatment other children had in the village at the hands of there fathers (and indeed we did, or it would not have been noted). No other children were treated like this, and some special exception to this being the prerogative of the high priest was never explained to us.

Basically, you're the one inserting how this culture does the parenting thing based on how Shushem treated us, when it is apparent Shushem did not treat us as other fathers treated there sons. That's bound to generate some type of reaction, and the type of reaction that it produces would differ from person to person. The fact is though, in story, love of our father has never been presented and our own character's reactions has only suggested it at one or two points (taking the tooth and taking more lessons).

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
C This kid needs our protection.

Grognan fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 4, 2013

Theglavwen
Jun 10, 2006

Frankly, I don't know anyone who likes Chinese bronzes, but I have one of the finest collections in the country.

Algid posted:

We obviously don't believe that if we ever did, we just ran away after all.

Which is why a lot of people thought willingly running away was a pretty weird choice to make. We've been brought up our entire life with the "fact" that, if displeased, Asherah will destroy our people or otherwise harm us/others. We've established that we believe in Asherah and the stories about him. We also worship(ed) Asherah; presumably, worshipping Asherah has something to do with the standard ritualistic practices involved in 'pleasing him', otherwise I imagine it would have stuck out when we were the only people doing it. I've seen no indication that our praying to Asherah was anything out of the norm; it seems, to me, a pretty big stretch to say that we worshipped him just for fun or profit, and not as part of the package of 'believing/respecting/fearing him', especially given that there's no indication that praying to him for reward was ever suggested to be any more fruitful than praying to him for protection.

Basically, if we weren't praying to him as part of our ritualistic practices, why were we doing it at all? And if it was part of our ritualistic practices, designed to appease a creature we believe in, why have we suddenly stopped doing it, without suggesting a dramatic and immediate shift in our lifelong convictions?

That being said, it certainly seems that the character is quickly becoming one that, indeed, no longer does believe in Asherah. It's weird, out of so-far-established-character, and sudden, but if that's the way it's going, that's the way it's going. :shrug:

As for the current vote:

J: Indicate that the forest seems dangerous and point back to Danal's tent, but if he insists upon going even without us, then accompany him. It would be more responsible to wake an adult, but we're new to friends, and have just asserted that we're best-buds-forever with Danal, so it seems likely we'd want to demonstrate loyalty to him, and not disappoint.

Edit: Actually, strike that, we wouldn't want to endager our new position amongst these people. Everything I said before, but instead of accompanying him, do the accidentally wake someone. That way we still demonstrate what seems to be loyalty, but manage to stop Danal from doing something dangerous.

Theglavwen fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jun 4, 2013

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions

Wake Barkof. We're tired, traumatized, and don't want to deal with this poo poo right now. Barkof's probably familiar enough with Danal's shenanigans to know what's up; with any luck he'll want to humor the king's son and take us on a walk around the perimeter, thus slaking Danal's thirst for adventure. And letting us get back to sleep without hurting Danal's feelings.

Also, I want to convert Danal to Ashera worship later on, not sacrifice him or have him die walking into a bear's mouth. Long game, y'all. Long game.

EDIT: F sounds good too, but there's no telling who we'll wake up or if they'll pay any attention to us. It won't get us any role model points either. Besides, 7 year olds have the attention spans of fruit flies, Danal will forget about our 'betrayal' by morning.

FoxTerrier fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jun 4, 2013

OhYo
Apr 14, 2006


(E: First and foremost: Pray to El for protection.)
Think this is a terrible idea but take the spear (E: give Danal the spear and go) into the forest to see what you can see. Keep Danal 10 paces BEHIND you.

"Do not lose track of me"
"Watch our back"
"I will signal for you to come to me."


Signal him when we see something.

OhYo fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 4, 2013

Nettle Soup
Jan 30, 2010

Oh, and Jones was there too.

Adventure time! :haw:

Obscil
Feb 28, 2012

PLEASE LIKE ME!
C Make sure sure to protect him, as he is both younger than you, and your only friend.

Daned
Jan 14, 2008

C

Daned fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 4, 2013

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Theglavwen posted:

Which is why a lot of people thought willingly running away was a pretty weird choice to make. We've been brought up our entire life with the "fact" that, if displeased, Asherah will destroy our people or otherwise harm us/others. We've established that we believe in Asherah and the stories about him. We also worship(ed) Asherah; presumably, worshipping Asherah has something to do with the standard ritualistic practices involved in 'pleasing him', otherwise I imagine it would have stuck out when we were the only people doing it. I've seen no indication that our praying to Asherah was anything out of the norm; it seems, to me, a pretty big stretch to say that we worshipped him just for fun or profit, and not as part of the package of 'believing/respecting/fearing him', especially given that there's no indication that praying to him for reward was ever suggested to be any more fruitful than praying to him for protection.

Basically, if we weren't praying to him as part of our ritualistic practices, why were we doing it at all? And if it was part of our ritualistic practices, designed to appease a creature we believe in, why have we suddenly stopped doing it, without suggesting a dramatic and immediate shift in our lifelong convictions?

That being said, it certainly seems that the character is quickly becoming one that, indeed, no longer does believe in Asherah. It's weird, out of so-far-established-character, and sudden, but if that's the way it's going, that's the way it's going. :shrug:

As for the current vote:

J: Indicate that the forest seems dangerous and point back to Danal's tent, but if he insists upon going even without us, then accompany him. It would be more responsible to wake an adult, but we're new to friends, and have just asserted that we're best-buds-forever with Danal, so it seems likely we'd want to demonstrate loyalty to him, and not disappoint.

Edit: Actually, strike that, we wouldn't want to endager our new position amongst these people. Everything I said before, but instead of accompanying him, do the accidentally wake someone. That way we still demonstrate what seems to be loyalty, but manage to stop Danal from doing something dangerous.

I think this dude shrugging off lightning and decapping our father and saving the person that loved us the most seems like a dramatic and immediate shift in our life.

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

FoxTerrier posted:

Wake Barkof. We're tired, traumatized, and don't want to deal with this poo poo right now. Barkof's probably familiar enough with Danal's shenanigans to know what's up; with any luck he'll want to humor the king's son and take us on a walk around the perimeter, thus slaking Danal's thirst for adventure. And letting us get back to sleep without hurting Danal's feelings.

This. We're in no mood for adventures right now.

Althair
Jul 26, 2006
words are weapons
F

EVG
Dec 17, 2005

If I Saw It, Here's How It Happened.

Diogines posted:

OPTION A - Are going to be a hero just like Enkidu from your mother's stories! Grab the spear and head off with your new best friend to ADVENTURE!

A: It's ADVENTURE TIME!

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012






If we spent time with Pagam I'd have been all over C, but we have lovely forest skills.

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

SerSpook posted:



If we spent time with Pagam I'd have been all over C, but we have lovely forest skills.

Yeah, going on an adventure right this second is a bad idea, especially if we are being followed like I think we are.

Mexican Deathgasm
Aug 17, 2010

Ramrod XTreme

ConfusedPig
Mar 27, 2013




Let's hope the :rolldice: is good and Danal really thinks it's an accident

Canuck-Errant
Oct 28, 2003

MOOD: BURNING - MUSIC: DISCO INFERNO BY THE TRAMMPS
Grimey Drawer
.



Current spreadsheet:

Canuck-Errant fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jun 4, 2013

Zybourne Clock
Oct 25, 2011

Poke me.

Theglavwen posted:

Basically, if we weren't praying to him as part of our ritualistic practices, why were we doing it at all? And if it was part of our ritualistic practices, designed to appease a creature we believe in, why have we suddenly stopped doing it, without suggesting a dramatic and immediate shift in our lifelong convictions?

That being said, it certainly seems that the character is quickly becoming one that, indeed, no longer does believe in Asherah. It's weird, out of so-far-established-character, and sudden, but if that's the way it's going, that's the way it's going. :shrug:

Partly because fake dad beat us whenever we shirked our duties, partly because we simply didn't know any better. To the best of our knowledge, before we met our saviors, everyone in our village prayed to Asherah and we were destined to become the next priest. Fake dad decided our future for us, and it's not like we had any say in the matter. We worshiped Asherah and accepted our future because it was expected of us.

Jalitha told us a lot of stories, one of which was about Sky Giants saving women and children in need. Even when we were very young, we knew Jalitha and us were different from the rest of the villagers. Other children wouldn't play with us, and we were the only two people in town to receive regular beatings. Then one day this strange guy comes to our town. Fake dad tries to strike him down with a light show, and the stranger simply laughs off the attack. A stranger who glows with golden light and claims to be a servant of the very god Jalitha spoke of. It's been some time since we left the tribe and, as far as we know, the world hasn't ended yet. In my opinion, that makes it very believable for Enkidel to acknowledge that El is the stronger god. It's not that we now deny Asherah's existence, it's that we consider him unworthy of our worship. El has been much nicer to us than fish god ever was, so I don't think the change of religion is strange at all.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020


Luck god, don't fail me now!

OhYo
Apr 14, 2006

HiHo ChiRho posted:

Yeah, going on an adventure right this second is a bad idea, especially if we are being followed like I think we are.
What do you know about El and his angels?

Diogines posted:

As Tudiya instructed you to, you bow your head and thank El for the food you are about to eat and for protection from monsters and beasts.
Updating my vote to pray to El for protection before going into the forest. In fact, Danal can have the spear if he wants.

OhYo fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jun 4, 2013

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




OhYo posted:

What do you know about El and his angels?

Updating my vote to pray to El for protection before going into the forest. In fact, Danal can have the spear if he wants.

If we go into the forest, we must pray to El, I agree.

Eryxias
Feb 17, 2011

Stay low.

Mexican Deathgasm
Aug 17, 2010

Ramrod XTreme

SerSpook posted:

If we go into the forest, we must pray to El, I agree.

I would like to add praying to El to my vote.

Tax Inductions
Jul 9, 2007

I carry refreshments to the good guys
I made the good guys some home fries
Wake Barkof

Regardless of Danal's physical size, his maturity clearly reflects his actual age (~5 years old). Encouraging the king's 5-year-old son to venture off into danger is incredibly irresponsible, and at 11 we'll probably be expected to know that.

Unless infant adventuring is a normal Labarasian stage of development or something.

Globofglob
Jan 14, 2008
A IS FOR ADVENTURE!
You guys are gonna get yourself shown as more cowardly than a 6 year old.

Tax Inductions
Jul 9, 2007

I carry refreshments to the good guys
I made the good guys some home fries

Globofglob posted:

You guys are gonna get yourself shown as more cowardly than a 6 year old.

While you guys are showing yourselves as having the judgement of a 6 year old :v:

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
C and pray to El for protection

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

OhYo posted:

What do you know about El and his angels?

I'm not worried about monsters, I'm worried about Jorah and Pagam killing Danal and grabbing us, and what they might do to us without our long locks.

Paradox Personified
Mar 15, 2010

:sun: SoroScrew :sun:
OPTION A - My vote!

Brian Moser
Mar 11, 2012

Paradox Personified posted:

OPTION A - My vote!

Casting my vote for this too. Voting for A.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN
Motherfucking ADVENTURE time!

Sogol
Apr 11, 2013

Galileo's Finger
Not A


It's a game of make-believe. Sadly we have no idea what that is or how to play. :/

We are essentially an older brother now. We also don't know about that, but can figure something about it out.... Like say... Don't let your younger brother be killed, permanently maimed, lost etc. in the forest on the first day you know him.

Just out of curiosity, what is the phase of the moon? Human sacrifice is a pretty big first step, especially when we don't know anything about it other than the relationship to the phases of the moon. I suggest we wait and start with Snarls Barkley.

Depending on how the A vote is going, I may change to the Other option and:

Agree to play, but indicate that the guard is asleep and the camp is unsafe. We must watch over the others. This is in fact the case. No matter what happens, we must watch or wake an adult to watch. It is in fact not safe. It is not unlikely that we are being watched by Jorah, Pagam or forest dwellers. There are beach dwellers. Surely there are also forest dwellers.

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions

Just throwing this out there...but F voters: When we're caught sneaking out with Danal, it's going to look like we're untrustworthy at worst and irresponsible/reckless at best. People are going to want to know why the kings son is sneaking off in the middle of the night, and they're not going to blame the 5 year old.

Do we really want to be thought too irresponsible to watch over our only friend?

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TenWren
Jan 22, 2012

FoxTerrier posted:

Wake Barkof. We're tired, traumatized, and don't want to deal with this poo poo right now. Barkof's probably familiar enough with Danal's shenanigans to know what's up; with any luck he'll want to humor the king's son and take us on a walk around the perimeter, thus slaking Danal's thirst for adventure. And letting us get back to sleep without hurting Danal's feelings.

Also, I want to convert Danal to Ashera worship later on, not sacrifice him or have him die walking into a bear's mouth. Long game, y'all. Long game.

EDIT: F sounds good too, but there's no telling who we'll wake up or if they'll pay any attention to us. It won't get us any role model points either. Besides, 7 year olds have the attention spans of fruit flies, Danal will forget about our 'betrayal' by morning.

This. This seems like a terrible idea.

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