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Also keep in mind that Bert and Reiner were literal children when they knocked the wall down. Bert seems to not care but Reiner clearly is a little unstable.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:12
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Ymir pretty much pointed it out - Reiner's behavior until now was basically a constructed persona that helped his infiltration, to the point where he began to fool even himself into believing that he was a soldier protecting mankind. Suddenly revealing his identity and kidnapping Eren has shattered that fantasy and forced him to confront the fact that, actually, he's a loving horrible person responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:21
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I like this chapter in the grand scheme of things, but having this be a monthly release and have to wait another month for things to happens is what makes me not like this chapter all that much.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:29
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The degree of crazy makes me wonder--has Reiner "only" developed a real psychological issue that's causing his warrior/soldier identities to split, or could that be a long-term side effect of the titan juice? I think we can be pretty sure that they couldn't transform when they were extremely young and Ymir killed their buddy, it's not too much of a leap from that to the same process Eren went through. Didn't see anyone else comment on the reveal that the Sasquatch has the unique ability to create titans that can move at night, and "Shouldn't you, of all people, know that already? Ymir?". Both parts raise so many questions about factions ughhh. Re: all theories about the human titans' relation to Sasquatch--keep in mind that Sasquatch doesn't know the first thing about human beings in the "modern" era or what's going on inside the walls. He can't be buddy-buddy with the human titans we know who've had 3D gear since they were kids. It's possible that Bert and Ryner are excited because they'd be allowed back into their village if they brought back Sasquatch's head or something else he's in possession of. Also possible is that Sasquatch is the only one who physically has the ability to get back there (e.g. to cross the ocean again...?). Who knows. And who the gently caress even knows what's going on with the previous reveal that Bert and Ryner would leave the wall alone if Eren came with them (which I think we can assume has something to do with Sasquatch, given that they specifically kidnapped Eren on the morning after spotting him) and absolutely everything about Christa/Historia. Here's a shot in the dark though: maybe the Sasquatch is a third party trying to kill everyone inside the walls and giving Eren to him would persuade Sasquatch to both bugger off (keeping Christa safe, which is Ymir's main thing) and give Ryner/Bert whatever they need to get back home with their captive Ymir? But why would Sasquatch give a single flying gently caress about Eren, especially if we're assuming he hasn't interacted with humans for a long-rear end time? See you guys next month 
Mio Bison fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 18:31
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Mio Bison posted:
Given how crazy Reiner appears to be, we have to consider the possibility that even his "childhood memory" of Ymir eating his buddy is also a constructed fantasy and part of his craziness. Note also that that "friend getting eaten by Ymir" flashback is seen only from Reiner's POV, never from Bertholdt's.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:43
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Despite the art being wonky as usual whenever there isn't crazy action, this was quite entertaining. I thought it was incredibly weird when Ymir was suddenly all "Oh I get it let me analyze your psychosis", but other than that, the conversation flowed really well. Eren is getting more and more entertaining / unhinged - now I'm just waiting for the moment where Mikasa actually gets interesting (we had some nice scenes already... "Fall, Annie", anyone?). I'm constantly amazed how much these characters actually feel like people. Also nice if the protagonist is told gently caress-all because someone uses information as a bargain chip - it makes a normally frustrating scene believable. Also, I'm now convinced that Berthold's freakout will be utterly amazing once it happens. Not if. Once. I love this story so much.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:45
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JosephWongKS posted:Given how crazy Reiner appears to be, we have to consider the possibility that even his "childhood memory" of Ymir eating his buddy is also a constructed fantasy and part of his craziness. Note also that that "friend getting eaten by Ymir" flashback is seen only from Reiner's POV, never from Bertholdt's. Didn't they have pretty much the same reaction with the implication that the flashback was shared between the two?
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Jun 7, 2013 19:04
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Torquemadras posted:Despite the art being wonky as usual whenever there isn't crazy action, this was quite entertaining. Ymir basically does that to everyone. It's her hobby.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:10
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Mio Bison posted:The degree of crazy makes me wonder--has Reiner "only" developed a real psychological issue that's causing his warrior/soldier identities to split, or could that be a long-term side effect of the titan juice? I think we can be pretty sure that they couldn't transform when they were extremely young and Ymir killed their buddy, it's not too much of a leap from that to the same process Eren went through.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:12
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Such a disappointing follow up after the last few chapters  For the reasons that have already been mentioned. This is definitely a chapter that belongs in a tankobon and not in a monthly release in terms of enjoyability. I can see this being a nice break after the heavy chapters preceding it and setting up the next bits of exposition, but when you're already taking a month long break between chapters this ain't cuttin it.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:16
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Bert and Reiner probably think Ymir is somehow related to the Sasquatch titan, thus kidnapping her will get them information about a new faction that has recently showed up and give them an excuse to take this new information home. Which is ironic given the fact that Ymir seems to know even less about the drat thing then they do. Reiner's revelation to Eren was probably fueled more by his broken psychological state than any sort of standing orders. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Bert and Reiner don't HAVE any standing orders.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:19
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Ytlaya posted:One new thing I learned from this chapter is that the sasquatch titan is what prompted Reiner/Bertholdt's sudden claim that they could return home and subsequent kidnapping of Eren/Ymir. I thought that it might have had something to do with it, but I didn't realize that it was apparently on the same side of Bertholdt/Reiner (which also seems to discredit the big theory that there's some third titan faction aside from Reiner/Bertholdt/Annie's faction). Disagree. I think it showed us the exact opposite. They seemed very concerned by its appearance. I think that, even more than Eren, they want to get it 'home'. Reiner thinks the reason is compelling enough to get Eren to join them. He just screwed up the asking because he's a little crazy and tired/hungry/thirsty. Further, it doesn't share information with them; at the time of the attack on wall Maria, kid Bert apparently used 3dmg to escape after his kick, while Mister Hairy didn't even know what it was. Ymir knows something, though; beyond the 'family resemblance' to Hairy, she all but said as much and seemed confused when he appeared at Utgard. Also makes sense if she preyed on their third companion: we have two clearly demarcated groups of titan foes there now, who are also at odds with each other. My takeaway is that he's a titan who ignored humans until recently, but... something changed. I keep coming back to the first attack on Maria. There's some reason why Bert and Reiner attacked then and no sooner... and then why they didn't strike again for years. Whatever attracted Reiner's faction then attracted Hairy. I thought at first it was going to be that Hairy was a Maria wall titan, but that doesn't feel right any more.
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Jun 7, 2013 21:18
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Comrade Question posted:Didn't they have pretty much the same reaction with the implication that the flashback was shared between the two? Hard to tell, Bertholdt always looks pretty much like that. Unless he's just sweating with his mouth closed.
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Jun 7, 2013 21:51
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I was clicking on things and found this mashup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfw_R5wApL4 , did not expect that. Thanks Ixion Saga.
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Jun 7, 2013 22:00
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ZeeToo posted:Disagree. I think it showed us the exact opposite. They seemed very concerned by its appearance. I think that, even more than Eren, they want to get it 'home'. Reiner thinks the reason is compelling enough to get Eren to join them. He just screwed up the asking because he's a little crazy and tired/hungry/thirsty. Further, it doesn't share information with them; at the time of the attack on wall Maria, kid Bert apparently used 3dmg to escape after his kick, while Mister Hairy didn't even know what it was. Ymir knows something, though; beyond the 'family resemblance' to Hairy, she all but said as much and seemed confused when he appeared at Utgard. Also makes sense if she preyed on their third companion: we have two clearly demarcated groups of titan foes there now, who are also at odds with each other. Yeah, I misinterpreted that. The fact that Ymir said their eyes were "glowing" when they saw the hairy titan at least indicates that they probably have some idea who he is, though. The reaction wouldn't have been so strong if he was just some mysterious thing that they might possibly be able to use as an excuse to return home.
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Jun 7, 2013 22:49
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Maybe the walls were never constructed to protect mankind to begin with but to protect or hide something else from the titan factions that they're are both after. Humanity is just a slight annoyance/impediment in between the titans and their true goal.
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Jun 7, 2013 23:02
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:Maybe the walls were never constructed to protect mankind to begin with but to protect or hide something else from the titan factions that they're are both after. Humanity is just a slight annoyance/impediment in between the titans and their true goal. You know, doesn't that Titan Text on the inside covers (or wherever it was) suggest that the walls were already present when humanity arrived? It could indeed be that humanity fled the titans (or something else) over the seas and then found that walled fortress and just decided to move on in. It was never strictly intended for them, and may arguably be the worst place for humanity to be.
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Jun 7, 2013 23:32
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:You know, doesn't that Titan Text on the inside covers (or wherever it was) suggest that the walls were already present when humanity arrived? It could indeed be that humanity fled the titans (or something else) over the seas and then found that walled fortress and just decided to move on in. It was never strictly intended for them, and may arguably be the worst place for humanity to be. I think the belly of a Titan is a worse place to be. 
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Jun 8, 2013 00:04
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Reiner () and Bert seem to imply that (latest chapter) maybe Ymir was one of the titans that were "converted" by the sasquatch. So i'm guessing if Reiner isn't making Ymir's attack on them up, that Sasquatch visited Reiner & Bert's village some time in the past, either with Ymir already in tow or "creating" Ymir-Titan there. That might explain why they were shocked to see it and tie into the reason for their initial attack on mankind somehow. Maybe they thought dem humanz was behind it? Then, Ymir somehow regained her consciousness and learned to transform (back?) into a human and decided to start over anew.
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Jun 8, 2013 00:29
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:You know, doesn't that Titan Text on the inside covers (or wherever it was) suggest that the walls were already present when humanity arrived? It could indeed be that humanity fled the titans (or something else) over the seas and then found that walled fortress and just decided to move on in. It was never strictly intended for them, and may arguably be the worst place for humanity to be. Not really. I think it reads more like they arrived to where the walls were prebuilt. So like it was a planned shelter that they were now retreating to.
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Jun 8, 2013 00:54
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Speaking of walls, I am curious on the condition of outermost Wall Maria. Since the reveal that live titans are used for mortar perhaps the titans dissembled the wall to release the trapped titans.
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Jun 8, 2013 01:03
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I also think it's likely that the old language is something modern human society has forgotten rather than something humans never knew.
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Jun 8, 2013 01:04
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Red Terror posted:Speaking of walls, I am curious on the condition of outermost Wall Maria. Since the reveal that live titans are used for mortar perhaps the titans dissembled the wall to release the trapped titans. The survey corps have been making expeditions to the outer walls for the last 5 years. The one wall titan that we've seen so far also happened to be a colossal-class. If something like that was going on I think that someone would have noticed. Then again, that is allot of wall and it's not like they can just send someone to ride around it like they did with the fake breach. Pensive fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 02:02
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http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/13/20 Check this page out. Aside from the lack of inking (probably had a serious deadline), several things strike me here. Reiner is being even more candid than usual. Is his thing he'll "never deviate from" the mission entrusted to him, i.e. the smashing of the walls? (And why did he and Bertholdt stop when they were on the verge of eliminating humankind?) Or is it hunting for more human-titans? What would he have said had Eren or Armin pressed him for details? Does the "no going back" mean that there's no going back to the village because of some screwup of his, or no going back to being a regular person because of the awful thing he has done? Can't wait to find out more about their "home village". Is it full of human-titans like them? Who is giving the orders, and why would two kids agree to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people? Where do Sasquatch, Eren's dad, Historia, the wall-titans, the inner city, and the basement come in? I believe Isayama when he says he planned out the entire plot before starting the first page. There's a lot of foreshadowing and a lot of things that make more sense upon re-reading. That's not the mark of something like Lost that is made up as it goes. Art issues aside, Attack on Titan has some brilliant writing and when it's complete it will be one hell of a story.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:28
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Teabiscuit posted:I was clicking on things and found this mashup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfw_R5wApL4 , did not expect that. Thanks Ixion Saga. I'm also seriously wondering what brought this about (other than "wouldn't it be funny if").
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Jun 8, 2013 02:52
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Daler Mehndi posted:I'm also seriously wondering what brought this about (other than "wouldn't it be funny if"). Do you really need any other reason?
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Jun 8, 2013 07:44
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Gyges posted:No, the promotion talk was Reiner's crazy leaking out all over the place. He was talking about getting a promotion because they saved the wall and were super good at getting away. There may or may not be a military style organization, though it's somewhat unlikely with Bertoldt insisting on warriors over soldiers, but this chapter didn't really speak to that. I thought it was crazy talk, but that he was talking about getting a promotion within the Scouting Legion. Like, there he was, with 2 people from his platoon or w/e who knew he was an enemy titan, and he was just casually talking about how he would get a promotion for saving some of the other trainees and for verifying that the wall wasn't broken, etc etc. I read it like he was talking to the rest of the group like he was still a Scouting Legion member and was excited about going to their base. Freakin weirdo.
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Jun 8, 2013 10:07
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What I think I love most about this manga is that even if we could come up with some rational explanation that could make sense given what we know, there's no way it would be anywhere close to what is going on, it would actually be the exact opposite of the thing we can't imagine. But yeah, talk about serious blueballs. I do love the hell out of crazy Reiner though. Actually I can't really think of any developed characters I don't like, they all have something about them that makes them seem interesting and motivated, even the "evil" characters like Annie and Reiner don't really seem evil, maybe just more misguided than anything. But who knows, maybe they are really fighting for some greater good we can't fathom yet. I do really hope things become a bit clearer next month though.
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Jun 8, 2013 10:20
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I'm beginning to like Bert more and more. We're never shown much of him, but I get the impression there's some deep poo poo going on in his head.
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Jun 8, 2013 10:51
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I sort of get the idea that he doesn't feel great about what he's doing, but he has a better handle on it than Reiner does. It's interesting seeing Annie and those two deal with knowing that they are terrible people. It's also interesting that none of them seem to have excepted to return from the mission.
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Jun 8, 2013 13:04
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Looking back at the last few pages a lot of posters seem to forget that Rainer explicitly stated that their goal was to erase all the humans. Not nudge them into action. The world has no future is new and apparently common knowledge among the Titans. That might explain a lot of Ymir's attitude, although she is now right back to dying for someone else's happiness.
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Jun 8, 2013 14:55
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genericnick posted:Looking back at the last few pages a lot of posters seem to forget that Rainer explicitly stated that their goal was to erase all the humans. Not nudge them into action. This just begs the question, though-- if they really wanted to kill off all the humans, why not just do it in one go? It's not like they lacked the capability. The Colossal and Armored Titans seem to be the toughest bastards around. So why did they stop destroying stuff when they did after their initial attack? Why just disappear off the face of the earth, rather than start smashing buildings, stepping on puny humans, and striding to the next wall to kick that one down too right off the bat? That's what gets me. Why the wait?
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Jun 8, 2013 15:32
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They definitely had to wait until the area between the walls was saturated or the hole would just have been filled up. The suicide charge the humans did would have slowed the process down a bit. Once you have to wait for a few years anyway it isn't really far fetched to wait until a really good opportunity presents itself.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:20
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LightningKnight posted:This just begs the question, though-- if they really wanted to kill off all the humans, why not just do it in one go? It's not like they lacked the capability. The Colossal and Armored Titans seem to be the toughest bastards around. So why did they stop destroying stuff when they did after their initial attack? Why just disappear off the face of the earth, rather than start smashing buildings, stepping on puny humans, and striding to the next wall to kick that one down too right off the bat? That's what gets me. Why the wait? Well, it's miles and miles to the next wall, and I dunno about Reiner but Bertolt would probably be swarmed by soldiers if they had no smaller titans to distract them.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:31
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I don't think either would care about being swarmed. Bert's steam trick alone takes care of that. They might run out of energy, though. I'm curious as to why they want to find the Monkey Titan. Could it be they wanted to kill the humans in the wall to deny him a source if people to Titan-ize and use against their home? But if they capture or kill it, they might neutralize that threat.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:38
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There is a fourth wall, manned by human titans like Bert and Reiner, holding back the countless hordes of Titans. The only titans the Wall Humans ever see are the dregs that get through the first line of defense. Bert and Reiner believed that if the human settlement is allowed to fall then their people no longer have to sacrifice their lives to defend it.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:40
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Teabiscuit posted:Thanks Ixion Saga. Is this show any good?
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Jun 8, 2013 16:45
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Affi posted:There is a fourth wall, manned by human titans like Bert and Reiner, holding back the countless hordes of Titans. The only titans the Wall Humans ever see are the dregs that get through the first line of defense. Bert and Reiner believed that if the human settlement is allowed to fall then their people no longer have to sacrifice their lives to defend it. The titans are actually the audience, consuming the author's sanity with their inane speculation and plot demands
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Jun 8, 2013 16:57
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Affi posted:There is a fourth wall, manned by human titans like Bert and Reiner, holding back the countless hordes of Titans. The only titans the Wall Humans ever see are the dregs that get through the first line of defense. Bert and Reiner believed that if the human settlement is allowed to fall then their people no longer have to sacrifice their lives to defend it. I really like this idea. Like just over the horizon there's another wall and then just a carpet of titans climbing over each other to get in.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:58
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Affi posted:There is a fourth wall, manned by human titans like Bert and Reiner, holding back the countless hordes of Titans. The only titans the Wall Humans ever see are the dregs that get through the first line of defense. Bert and Reiner believed that if the human settlement is allowed to fall then their people no longer have to sacrifice their lives to defend it. More likely: There is at least two other (possibly walled) settlements detached from the walls we know. To me it seems like there are two types of human-titan transformations. Type A: would be the kind that Eren, Bert, Reiner and Annie are capable of. These are brought about by other humans via injections and seem to endow the titans with (generally) less grotesque features and more specialised attributes/abilities. Type B: Seem to be monkey transformations, which I would assume are the "natural" way titans are made. Everything so far points to Ymir being this kind of titan. The marked difference between Ymir's titan form and everyone elses, her history with Bert and Ernie, the talking titan that ate that dude with the diary, ect. I'm imagining that the Type A titans have a fairly secure-ish place to live, but hold a historical grudge against the main wall humans. The type B titans capable of returning to human form are possibly outcasts or considered dangerous and unstable by the type A's. I just like the idea of titan factions....
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