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Amppelix posted:OK, what even is this minigame hellscape after you finish level 5 in Oracle of Ages? Like you come out of the dungeon, literally instantly a goron busts out of the wall "Here's this new tunnel I dug! Oh yeah, there's lots of minigames inside! We like minigames!" And oh boy is there a lot of minigames. There's a whole trading quest where you play minigames to get poo poo to give to other people so you can play their minigames (there's six in total). And after this whole dealio you the key(s) to the next dungeon which is three screens over from the last one. Did they run out of overworld budget or what? This and that island earlier on (I think it's between levels 2 and 3?) are pretty much the reasons I think Oracle of Ages is a game not worth replaying. No matter how good the rest of the game is, the poo poo they make you do between dungeons isn't worth doing more than once.
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Jun 6, 2013 22:28
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DarkHamsterlord posted:This and that island earlier on (I think it's between levels 2 and 3?) are pretty much the reasons I think Oracle of Ages is a game not worth replaying. No matter how good the rest of the game is, the poo poo they make you do between dungeons isn't worth doing more than once. I liked the Island. I liked the sequence in SS on the mountain too. I guess I dig the "lose all your items" moments.
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Jun 6, 2013 23:25
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DarkHamsterlord posted:This and that island earlier on (I think it's between levels 2 and 3?) are pretty much the reasons I think Oracle of Ages is a game not worth replaying. No matter how good the rest of the game is, the poo poo they make you do between dungeons isn't worth doing more than once. I liked the Crescent Island thing, though. I thought it was really clever to make a whole section of puzzles that you either need the Power Bracelet or Roc's Feather for, but can only have one of those two at a time. I guess it was mildly annoying to have to walk back and forth from that one hut to trade items, but other than that, I thought it was really satisfying once I finally got everything back. As for the minigames on Rolling Ridge, each of the games themselves were fun, but sticking all of them right there between dungeons 5 and 6 was the mistake.
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Jun 6, 2013 23:30
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The island does suffer from the Links awakening/Oracles horrible problem of having to switch to the ring every drat time you want to do something.
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Jun 6, 2013 23:35
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Laser Spider posted:I liked the Crescent Island thing, though. I thought it was really clever to make a whole section of puzzles that you either need the Power Bracelet or Roc's Feather for, but can only have one of those two at a time. I guess it was mildly annoying to have to walk back and forth from that one hut to trade items, but other than that, I thought it was really satisfying once I finally got everything back. Going back and forth was my main problem with Crescent Island. It was tedious to the point of dragging the whole area down, like pausing to swap boots in the Water Temple cranked up to 11. For Rolling Ridge, I don't think the mistake was putting all the minigames between dungeons 5 and 6. The mistake was making them mandatory to progress the game instead of optional things for heart pieces.
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Jun 7, 2013 00:01
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This is in reply to something a few pages back, but I don't know what people mean when they say you can't carry enough rupees to pay Tingle for all the Triforce charts at once. The first rupee upgrade lets you carry 1000 rupees, and the second one lets you carry 5000! You only need 3184 rupees to decipher all 8 charts. The upgrades are found one sector north of Windfall on the fairy island and in the forest on Outset that you visit at the beginning of the game, hidden under a large rock you can destroy with bombs.
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Jun 7, 2013 00:29
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June 6, 2013 is the 20th anniversary of Link's Awakening. How appropriate, since I was up early this morning completing it on 3DS. Happy birthday! 
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Jun 7, 2013 00:44
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Chaltab posted:Zelda games locking the doors of a room until you clear it of enemies? Those bastards, they're ruining the franchise. They are when you're forced to deal with awful motion controls!
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Jun 7, 2013 03:06
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Sire Oblivion posted:They are when you're forced to deal with awful motion controls! I thought the motion controls were great and intuitive. They made me want to use a variety or weapons I wouldn't normally and I had 0 problem with sword controls. Hardly awful
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Jun 7, 2013 03:47
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The motion controls seem to either be completely awful or perfectly fine, depending on who you are. Maybe it has to do with how far you sit from your TV, or the lighting situation in your room or something. I can't think of any other reason why they work perfectly for so many people, yet don't work at all for so many others.
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Jun 7, 2013 03:56
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DarkHamsterlord posted:The motion controls seem to either be completely awful or perfectly fine, depending on who you are. Maybe it has to do with how far you sit from your TV, or the lighting situation in your room or something. I can't think of any other reason why they work perfectly for so many people, yet don't work at all for so many others. There are a lot of factors at play that could result in wildly different experiences for different people. For example, my TV is directly in front of my living room window, so I had to play the game at night if I wanted to play at all because otherwise the sun would overpower the Wii's IR sensor bar and make playing the game basically impossible. Hell, even when it was night, I couldn't play from my couch since it was at a 90 degree angle from the TV, the remote has to be facing the TV if you want it to work, so I had to set up a pillow on my coffee table to play the game rather than lying back on my couch like I usually do.
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Jun 7, 2013 04:07
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Skyward Sword doesn't use the IR sensor
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Jun 7, 2013 04:08
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Dr Pepper posted:Skyward Sword doesn't use the IR sensor I'm pretty sure it periodically checks the IR sensor to re-center the remote, so you don't have to manually recalibrate every fifteen minutes.
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Jun 7, 2013 04:09
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Bombadilillo posted:I thought the motion controls were great and intuitive. They made me want to use a variety or weapons I wouldn't normally and I had 0 problem with sword controls. Same here. I've played Skyward Sword in 4 different places and never once had problems with the controls.
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Jun 7, 2013 04:10
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I'm crazy about minigames, so I actually like the part after the fifth dungeon. Especially that weird dancing/rhythm game. It's also one of the reasons I love Majora's Mask, so many cool minigames, particularly the two shooting gallery. I was really disappointed that Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess didn't make full use of of their precision aiming for shooting galleries of their own, would have been a perfect fit!
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Jun 7, 2013 05:38
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George Lazenby posted:
I can't believe I didn't notice this. Shooting twitch arrows is probably one of the most satisfying experience I've had playing games.
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Jun 7, 2013 05:58
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George Lazenby posted:I was really disappointed that Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess didn't make full use of of their precision aiming for shooting galleries of their own, would have been a perfect fit! Well, Skyward Sword had the pumpkin shooting thing, but eh, gently caress that noise.
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Jun 7, 2013 06:14
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DarkHamsterlord posted:The motion controls seem to either be completely awful or perfectly fine, depending on who you are. Maybe it has to do with how far you sit from your TV, or the lighting situation in your room or something. I can't think of any other reason why they work perfectly for so many people, yet don't work at all for so many others. Plenty of things factor in, including messed up hardware, terrible motion registration and the fact that not everyone moves the same way when you have to "slice in X direction." There are a lot of points of failure, the last one would have been avoided if the combat was actually 1:1. The game tried some ambitious things but everything it accomplished is completely possible with traditional controls and they'd actually be precise. There isn't a single thing in Skyward Sword that needed motion controls, it all could have been mapped to buttons+joystick combinations.
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Jun 7, 2013 09:26
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That's exactly the problem I have with it. It's great for party games and what-not, but when it adds literally nothing to the game and only makes it more difficult to play, it's exactly what everybody feared: a pointless gimmick. Metroid Prime 3 is the only game I ever played on the Wii with motion controls I enjoyed, and even then, I'd have taken Gamecube controls over what we got given the choice.
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Jun 7, 2013 09:33
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I developed an insane craving for Zelda, so I borrowed my cousins DS and Minish cap. Holy poo poo, how did I skip over this one? I'm only in the second dungeon and loving the dogshit out of it. Way under-rated.
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Jun 7, 2013 09:55
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DarkHamsterlord posted:I'm pretty sure it periodically checks the IR sensor to re-center the remote, so you don't have to manually recalibrate every fifteen minutes.
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Jun 7, 2013 09:59
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LividLiquid posted:Metroid Prime 3 is the only game I ever played on the Wii with motion controls I enjoyed, and even then, I'd have taken Gamecube controls over what we got given the choice. I found the motion controls actually rendered that game unplayable. I got an hour or two in and was fed up with waving my arms around and just everything to do with it. Never played it again. Maybe if they'd given the option to use real controls, I might have gotten through it because the previous two Primes were both really fun and awesome, but nope, it was waggle and point or nothing. This is why I am incredibly cagey about picking up Skyward Sword. As much as I want to play the latest Zelda, there's so many people who had a lovely, horrible time with the motion controls, and I'm just very concerned I'll be unable to play the game as well.
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Jun 7, 2013 13:14
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The motion controls trick in Skyward Sword is that you're not supposed to swing your arms like a crazy person. Small flicks do everything the game needs with basically perfect accuracy. If you want to swing your sword to the right you just flick it to the right. Left to the left, ect. You don't go left-to-right or right-to-left. It's just "slash right/slash left/slash up" kinda stuff. It's a little bit like how Metal Gear Rising's Blade Mode works thinking about it. It's a big misleading if you're expecting to use your controller as a sword instead of a motion flick but at the same time I'm not 100% clear how you could comfortably replicated some of the stuff on a controller without getting into annoying button combinations. I guess maybe put the sword on the right analog stick? I could actually see that working out but to be honest I don't think I'd find it more comfortable. Twilight Princess's sword controls just sucked though because they're just replicating a button press. That's a flat-out case where it's waggling for the sake of waggling. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 13:39
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Sire Oblivion posted:Plenty of things factor in, including messed up hardware, terrible motion registration and the fact that not everyone moves the same way when you have to "slice in X direction." There are a lot of points of failure, the last one would have been avoided if the combat was actually 1:1. The game tried some ambitious things but everything it accomplished is completely possible with traditional controls and they'd actually be precise. There isn't a single thing in Skyward Sword that needed motion controls, it all could have been mapped to buttons+joystick combinations. What about aiming the bow/slingshot? How can you replicate that accurately with a stick? And how could you replicate the sword swiping and stabbing in a way that was more intuitive and quicker than the motion controls? Or most importantly, sticking a pumpkin on the end of the sword and waving it about your head? Angling the bird worked really well with the motion plus too. My main problem with the controls in Skyward Sword was that your aiming cursor moved so SLOWLY compared to other wii games, it was smooth but way too slow. Should have had the option to adjust the sensitivity like in Metroid Prime 3
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Jun 7, 2013 14:26
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The motion aiming plus the buckshot upgrade made me use the slingshot through most of the game. I really liked it for taking out Keese and stunning groups. I hope the upgrade system returns for 1. Something to spend money on thats now WW's pay to advance the game. 2. Keeping me using items that I would have otherwise discarded.Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I found the motion controls actually rendered that game unplayable. I got an hour or two in and was fed up with waving my arms around and just everything to do with it. Never played it again. Maybe if they'd given the option to use real controls, I might have gotten through it because the previous two Primes were both really fun and awesome, but nope, it was waggle and point or nothing. I played with the remote in my lap 80% of the game. Like has been said, you can use flicking motions instead of big fat swings for the sword. From the multiple discussions this has generated in this thread here are some key things. -Dont "preswing" If you want to swipe left, you dont need to move your wiimote right then left, just flick it left. This seems to be the most comman problem. -On average 50% of goons seem to have 0 trouble with the controls from the word go, most of the rest have their problem solved by not preswinging. -Reports vary but it seems that the wiimote+ with builting motion+ work better then ones with the attachment. But plenty of people do fine with those. I can tell you from Nintendoland Zelda which IS 1 to 1, I cant see a difference. -You DONT have to point at the screen!!!! Sounds great for what you disliked in MP3 There is a Dojo when you get your sword and you have to practice all the moves, make sure you mess around there until your comfortable with the controls, even basic enemies require directional attacks so I can see how the game would be horrible if you cant do them. That said, despite the controversy I think SS is one of the best Zelda games despite its modern Zelda problems. You should really play it. Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 15:51
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ImpAtom posted:The motion controls trick in Skyward Sword is that you're not supposed to swing your arms like a crazy person. Small flicks do everything the game needs with basically perfect accuracy. If you want to swing your sword to the right you just flick it to the right. Left to the left, ect. You don't go left-to-right or right-to-left. It's just "slash right/slash left/slash up" kinda stuff. It's a little bit like how Metal Gear Rising's Blade Mode works thinking about it. I actually like Twilight Princess's controls, but for the bow controls rather than the waggle. It made me want to play a Zelda game where Link is an archer rather than a swordsman.
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Jun 7, 2013 15:57
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Didn't blade mode go into slow-mo? So what people are admitting to is they can't handle real combat. 
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Jun 7, 2013 16:01
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Strange Matter posted:I actually like Twilight Princess's controls, but for the bow controls rather than the waggle. It made me want to play a Zelda game where Link is an archer rather than a swordsman. Didn't we get exactly that in Crossbow Training?
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Jun 7, 2013 16:42
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He wasn't an archer in that game. He was an arbalist.
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Jun 7, 2013 16:55
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I found the motion controls actually rendered that game unplayable. I got an hour or two in and was fed up with waving my arms around and just everything to do with it. Never played it again. Maybe if they'd given the option to use real controls, I might have gotten through it because the previous two Primes were both really fun and awesome, but nope, it was waggle and point or nothing. I for one point to MP3 and SS as some of the best motion control games on the Wii.
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Jun 8, 2013 03:02
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.TakaM posted:If you found the motion controls in Metroid Prime 3 "unplayable" you're not going to enjoy Skyward Sword and I don't know why you even have a Wii. Yeah, I don't see how anyone doesn't enjoy MP3's controls, let alone want to go back to the godawful tank mode that was the Gamecube controls for it. If you didn't like the Wii controls for Metroid, were they set up so the pointing controls the camera no matter what? I think the default mode has you pressing the pointer all the way to the edge of the screen to turn, which might have made the whole experience a lot more sluggish than it should have been. Alternatively, if you found 'pro mode' or whatever it was too twitchy, that'd probably solve your problem too.
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Jun 8, 2013 03:56
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Heavy Lobster posted:Yeah, I don't see how anyone doesn't enjoy MP3's controls, let alone want to go back to the godawful tank mode that was the Gamecube controls for it. If you didn't like the Wii controls for Metroid, were they set up so the pointing controls the camera no matter what? I think the default mode has you pressing the pointer all the way to the edge of the screen to turn, which might have made the whole experience a lot more sluggish than it should have been. Alternatively, if you found 'pro mode' or whatever it was too twitchy, that'd probably solve your problem too. Too be fair. The complaint wasnt that the controls were bad. But that he had to point at the screen all game. Which is legitimate.
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Jun 8, 2013 04:05
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Bombadilillo posted:Too be fair. The complaint wasnt that the controls were bad. But that he had to point at the screen all game. Which is legitimate. I guess then I'm curious how the controller was held, because I don't think I ever lifted the wiimote out of my lap the whole time I was playing unless I got really excited or something. Your hands can generally stay in the same position as they would if you're holding a conventional controller, since the way you hold a wiimote is the same as holding the right arm of a controller, and it naturally points forward. Unless you play lying down with your head turned to the side or draped over the arm of a couch or something then holding any controller will naturally have it facing toward the TV, and the IR sensor is good enough to pick up small motions. It isn't like you're playing a 10-hour session of Duck Hunt. 
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Jun 8, 2013 04:14
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Heavy Lobster posted:I guess then I'm curious how the controller was held, because I don't think I ever lifted the wiimote out of my lap the whole time I was playing unless I got really excited or something. Your hands can generally stay in the same position as they would if you're holding a conventional controller, since the way you hold a wiimote is the same as holding the right arm of a controller, and it naturally points forward. Unless you play lying down with your head turned to the side or draped over the arm of a couch or something then holding any controller will naturally have it facing toward the TV, and the IR sensor is good enough to pick up small motions. It isn't like you're playing a 10-hour session of Duck Hunt. Edit: to be fair, when I first played Corruption in 2007 it gave me one hell of a wrist cramp, but I guess I was just dumb about the proper way to hold the Wiimote then.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:20
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Amppelix posted:OK, what even is this minigame hellscape after you finish level 5 in Oracle of Ages? Like you come out of the dungeon, literally instantly a goron busts out of the wall "Here's this new tunnel I dug! Oh yeah, there's lots of minigames inside! We like minigames!" And oh boy is there a lot of minigames. There's a whole trading quest where you play minigames to get poo poo to give to other people so you can play their minigames (there's six in total). And after this whole dealio you the key(s) to the next dungeon which is three screens over from the last one. Did they run out of overworld budget or what? Yeah I started Ages and then remembered this poo poo, as well as that awful loving water dungeon later. Ugh. Well, I don't think Seasons has nearly that many roadblocks, but I could be remembering wrong.
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Jun 8, 2013 07:06
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Bombadilillo posted:Too be fair. The complaint wasnt that the controls were bad. But that he had to point at the screen all game. Which is legitimate. I have this habit of lying down with my head on the couch armrest, holding the controller with my elbows resting on the armrest so the controller would be upsidedown behind my head. Made playing Corruption a bitch for those twenty or so minutes I was too stubborn to change positions, that's for sure. Once I gave up and played with my hands in my lap facing towards the TV (and after some tweaking the sensitivity) I found the controls basically perfect. I guess the lesson learned here is that Zelda should totally be a first person shooter.
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Jun 8, 2013 07:18
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ImpAtom posted:The motion controls trick in Skyward Sword is that you're not supposed to swing your arms like a crazy person. Small flicks do everything the game needs with basically perfect accuracy. If you want to swing your sword to the right you just flick it to the right. Left to the left, ect. You don't go left-to-right or right-to-left. It's just "slash right/slash left/slash up" kinda stuff. It's a little bit like how Metal Gear Rising's Blade Mode works thinking about it. If I'm just supposed to do small flicks to get results, what's the loving point? The whole game was advertised around it's "immersive combat experience made possible with Motion+." It defeats the whole point of the controls. George Lazenby posted:What about aiming the bow/slingshot? How can you replicate that accurately with a stick? And how could you replicate the sword swiping and stabbing in a way that was more intuitive and quicker than the motion controls? Or most importantly, sticking a pumpkin on the end of the sword and waving it about your head? Angling the bird worked really well with the motion plus too. Aiming did benefit from Motion controls, but they're just as possible on a joystick. Nearly all of the canned animations the sword had were already done in the previous Zelda titles and just required certain button presses, if you held forward and hit B you stabbed, held right and hit B you got a horizontal slice to the right. It wasn't as refine, but it didn't need to be. All you need to do is map the 8 different directions with an attack button and you get every single sword attack you got in Skyward Sword.
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Jun 8, 2013 22:12
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Skyward sword doesn't have canned animations though. The blade does move in tune with your hand, try holding the remote at odd angles and you'll see the game match them.
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Jun 8, 2013 22:14
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Sire Oblivion posted:If I'm just supposed to do small flicks to get results, what's the loving point? The whole game was advertised around it's "immersive combat experience made possible with Motion+." It defeats the whole point of the controls. Yeah, advertising says a lot of stupid poo poo. The in-game instructions and the actual way it plays use that. It's not hard to use at all and works fine. You can even do larger slashes if you want, your hands will just get tired faster. The thing that throws off the controls is going left-right instead of just slashing to the right or going down-up instead of just slashing upwards. It's the switch in direction that you don't need. Dr Pepper posted:Skyward sword doesn't have canned animations though. The blade does move in tune with your hand, try holding the remote at odd angles and you'll see the game match them. It uses canned animations for the attacks but not for other things like making the eyes dizzy. It doesn't one-for-one follow your slashes. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 22:16
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Dr Pepper posted:Skyward sword doesn't have canned animations though. The blade does move in tune with your hand, try holding the remote at odd angles and you'll see the game match them.
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Jun 8, 2013 23:30
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