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Tomberforce
May 30, 2006

Le0 posted:

Thanks for the info guys. Like I said I think my doctor is a wuss!

Anyway, could anyone point out to me what kind of cert I should be looking at doing? I think doing the theory part before leaving is a nice idea

Yeah, life would no be worth living without the occasional risk, and in any case diving according to recreational rules is extremely safe.

You have a couple of options - the first, if you just want to give diving a go and skip most of the theory would be to sign up to a Discover SCUBA Dive course. These can be done either in a pool or in open water and they give you the chance to try out diving to a maximum depth of 12m under the close supervision of a dive professional. It's cheaper than the full course, but the downside is that you don't end up with a qualification which would allow you to dive without an instructor.

Alternatively you can look into doing an Open Water course - there are a number of different agencies that offer these courses, the two most common being PADI and SSI, but they're all broadly similar in standard. Both agencies offer the chance for you to complete the theoretical portion of the course online or though a local dive shop before you go on holiday. You can check out PADI elearning options here: http://www.padi.com/elearning/

I don't know where you're based, but chances are that you've got a dive shop near you so your best bet is to go and have a chat to them about it.

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Gindack
Jan 30, 2010
Did my first 3 open water dives this Sunday and it was infinitely better and I was way more comfortable than in the pool. Didn't see much except for a small perch.

Now when buying a used bc what questions should I be asking and what should I look for? My lds is prob gong to sell me one of their rentals for a little over half off retail, Knighthawk with air2 (combo inflator/backup reg).

Gindack fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jun 18, 2013

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000

Le0 posted:

In late august we are going to the Maldives and I guess this would be a perfect time to do it. I understand I need to do the newbie certification and was wondering what you guys thought about me doing it in the Maldives? My GF is a bit worried because we are taking the plane for ~12hours to get there, would there be any problem with that? Also our doctor, which is a long time family friend said I shouldn't do it because it's needlessly dangerous but I suspect that he's worried since he knows me since I was a kid :)
It should be a crime against humanity to go to the Maldives and not dive. I'd echo what LAC said and recommend you do all your book and pool work at home before leaving so you can jump straight in and do your checkout dives. The Maldives is one of the best dive locations in the world and you won't regret trying it out there.

As long as you are in somewhat good shape, the types of diving you will be doing are very safe, and if you want you can hire a DM/guide to show you around even after your checkout dives. The flying part will not be an issue in my opinion, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions there:

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/Diving_After_Flying

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/Flying_After_Diving

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/Flying_After_Diving_Cracking_the_DCS_Code (I like this one)

If I was going to weigh in, I can't see anything wrong with flying after doing a nice shallow dive. A lot of people I know, including me, treat it as virtually a non issue. However conservative you decide to be on the issue, don't sweat bullets if your flight out is only 12 or 10 hours after your last shallow reef dive.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jun 18, 2013

Wibbleman
Apr 19, 2006

Fluffy doesn't want to be sacrificed

Le0 posted:

I need some advice!
<snip> Also our doctor, which is a long time family friend said I shouldn't do it because it's needlessly dangerous but I suspect that he's worried since he knows me since I was a kid :)

Oh also all newbie advice are welcome!

Any chance there is a family complication here (ie a genetic condition such as PFO, heart mumors etc) that your doctor is not telling you about. As I can't see why a normal family doctor wouldn't say "just loving do it" when asked about diving in the maldives. If you were asking about diving on the Andrea Dora then sure, but just tooling around in warm water on a tropical island. Statistically flying there will be more dangerous (unless there's something else here stacking the odds against it).

Maybe get a second opinion from a dive doctor. Just call DAN (Phone +1-919-684-2948 Mon-Fri 8:30am to 5:00pm EST. +1-800-446-2671) and they should be happy to refer you to a dive doctor even if your not a member, but if your planning on diving on holiday, for fucks sake join them before you go.

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum

Gindack posted:

Did my first 3 open water dives this Sunday and it was infinitely better and I was way more comfortable than in the pool. Didn't see much except for a small perch.

Now when buying a used bc what questions should I be asking and what should I look for? My lds is prob gong to sell me one of their rentals for a little over half off retail, Knighthawk with air2 (combo inflator/backup reg).

I have the Seahawk instead of the Knighthawk, but Air2 owns and you definitely want that, just make sure your buddy is aware of the differences between it and a regular second. Also work out emergency procedures - my wife has Air2 as well, and we practiced hand offs of primary with switch to secondary, hand offs of secondary and the maneuverability loss with that, etc. With a new buddy, just figure one of the two out. Second, make sure your integrated weight pouches (trim and main) and buckles are in good shape. They probably will be, since the buckle setup is nice on the Seahawk and appears the same on the Knighthawk, but look at it anyway. Next, because it is integrated weight, look at your cargo pocket capacity - and don't look at it empty, put whatever weight you'd normally put in the pocket and then see if that is acceptable or if it would screw with a slate, camera, or whatever you plan on sticking in your pocket. It is a solid choice overall, I think, but I'm somewhat biased.

Of course check for fit, condition, and make sure it is fully serviced prior to purchase.

E: I forgot to talk about what to look for with a reg. Check mouthpiece condition / fit, check breathing comfort, check its rating for whatever temps you plan to dive, test both stages and make sure it is serviced. For used gear, see if you can talk them into a one year anniversary free service or something. Then if you notice anything, it should get covered.

let it mellow fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jun 18, 2013

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.

Le0 posted:

I need some advice!

Maldives

As someone who's been to the Maldives, I recommend HEAVILY that you either get your license now, or arrange to do so while you're there. There's not much to do other than diving, as the main island is quite small and can be easily exhausted in a day. If you're on a resort then there may be more to do.

I went a couple years ago on a liveaboard diving tour. Now, I don't recommend that for someone who's new to diving, or not sure if they really like it. However, I saw some truly amazing things while I was there and wouldn't trade that for anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXG8CFUZPGM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9MC8lnGag8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodeiI_IFRw

HandlingByJebus
Jun 21, 2009

All of a sudden, I found myself in love with the world, so there was only one thing I could do:
was ding a ding dang, my dang a long racecar.

It's a love affair. Mainly jebus, and my racecar.

Bishop posted:

I hot dropped the northern light today and drifted almost 5 miles on deco. Max depth 195. And my bottom gas was air. I was expecting some :catdrugs: poo poo but I honestly did not feel narced at all. No fish singing happy birthday or anything. Saved
$150 on helium too. I don't plan on making a habit out of taking air that deep but it was interesting to see that at least today, going deep on air was no big deal.

I... what?

PPo2 of air at 60m is... 7ATA x 0.21 = 1.47ATA.

Seems to me that Nitrogen narcosis is hardly your biggest worry at that depth with 21% oxygen in your mix. You dive trimix regularly and you're casually loving around with oxygen toxicity?

Kids, don't try this at home. :catdrugs: indeed.

not-so-ninja-edit: I'm concerned that talking about 195' dives on air will encourage inexperienced divers to try it. You do what you do, Bishop, and more power to you. Sorry for the snappy dick response.

HandlingByJebus fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jun 19, 2013

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

sofullofhate posted:

I... what?

PPo2 of air at 60m is... 7ATA x 0.21 = 1.47ATA.

Seems to me that Nitrogen narcosis is hardly your biggest worry at that depth with 21% oxygen in your mix. You dive trimix regularly and you're casually loving around with oxygen toxicity?

Kids, don't try this at home. :catdrugs: indeed.

not-so-ninja-edit: I'm concerned that talking about 195' dives on air will encourage inexperienced divers to try it. You do what you do, Bishop, and more power to you. Sorry for the snappy dick response.

I deco out on Bailout at 1.6 maximum single exposure is 45 mins at 1.6 for safety.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!
I think there are maybe 3 divers in this thread who are certified and smart enough to make a deep air dive like that and Bishop is one of them. I don't think we have to worry someone without proper training/experience here will try to emulate that. That being said, probably a fairly dangerous dive but he made it back so its all good. Also, 1.47 is pretty within safe limits. I know tec divers who set their warnings at 1.6 and have been fine. I'll set my computer to warn me at 1.5 when i dive nitrox personally.

I myself took air tonight down to a depth of 12 feet with an open water class. 13 if you count me unscrewing the cover to the suction thingy of the pool and jamming my computer down there just so i could prove a point.

Gindack
Jan 30, 2010

Thanks for the info. I've been doing my cert dives with the Knighthawk and I'm quite comfortable and it seems to fit the 18lbs of Weight I need for freshwater, just need to see how much I can cram in for salt water dives.

This thread has been a great resource so far and I hope you guys don't mind answering some more of my questions;

Also do you guys have any particular love or hate for certain brands/models of dive computers?
Have you ever heard/had the wireless transmitter stop working on a dive?
What is the difference between a $300 reg and a $700 (besides materials, draw and piston/diaphram) or is that what drives the price?

Right now I am trying to fill out my kit while finding a nice balance between quality and price. I don't mind spending the extra money where it counts as long as I am going to get a good return on my investment.

ttomkat
Mar 26, 2010

jackyl posted:

Hey, y'all, do me a favor. We have tickets to Belize in December, which is why we did our AOW recently, since we read some places require that for the Blue Hole. We are stoked about doing the Blue Hole, but now we want some advice on where to stay there. Ambergris? Caulker? Somewhere else? Help!

My wife and I went down to Belize last November. We stayed in Ambergris and it was a blast. There isn't much to do Caye Caulker. There are a bunch of outfits that will take you to all the major dive sites as well as some local spots that are pretty cool as well.

If you prefer more isolation go for Caulker, if you want a bit more night life and activity go for Ambergris.
Feel free to ask me more questions and I will try to give you my worthless 2 cents.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

Gindack posted:

Thanks for the info. I've been doing my cert dives with the Knighthawk and I'm quite comfortable and it seems to fit the 18lbs of Weight I need for freshwater, just need to see how much I can cram in for salt water dives.

This thread has been a great resource so far and I hope you guys don't mind answering some more of my questions;

Also do you guys have any particular love or hate for certain brands/models of dive computers?
Have you ever heard/had the wireless transmitter stop working on a dive?
What is the difference between a $300 reg and a $700 (besides materials, draw and piston/diaphram) or is that what drives the price?

Right now I am trying to fill out my kit while finding a nice balance between quality and price. I don't mind spending the extra money where it counts as long as I am going to get a good return on my investment.

What thickness suit are you wearing to get the 18 lbs of weight in fresh water? I don't mean to offend you, but unless you are a pretty hefty dude in a 7mm wetsuit 18 lbs sounds like its overweight. If that is the correct weighting, then you can always fill your weight pockets to the max and then use a weight belt for the rest.

As far as dive computers go, i don't have any real recommendations. Whatever shop you go to will pimp whatever brand gear they sell. If you want independent reviews, find a few computers in your price range and then find reviews of them online.

Yes, transmitters can stop working underwater. I've have two aborted dives because of them. Its rare, but it can happen.

Regulators? Take this with a grain of salt here, but in my opinion, there is no goddamn difference in breathability between most regulators. Yes you'll get the ice regs, or the environmentally sealed ones, but for recreational diving, they will all deliver you air down to 130 feet all the same. I STILL dive a 2008 made oceanic alpha sport 8 (their cheapest) regulator to this day. Its the most basic regulator you can get and it still works fine. I haven't even dove the higher end regulators down deep because in my mind, mine works just fine and i'm happy with it. What i see a lot of are aqualung legends, atomic z2's, scubapros freaking anything. When i teach open water classes in the pool i'll use my reg sometimes, sometimes rentals (aqualung legends), or my instructors (scubapro mk25/s600). To me they all feel the same. No modern scuba company makes unsafe regulators anymore. If you dive in extreme conditions (heavy current, super cold, super deep, etc) regularly, then a specialized expensive regulator is needed. For general recreational diving? They'll all breath just fine.

Feel free to price things out online/with your local shop (please your local shop) and ask us for our opinions on it and we'll be happy to help you out. Also, letting us know your general budget will help because i can build you a scuba rig for 800 dollars just as easily as i can 8000 dollars.

Crunkjuice fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jun 19, 2013

Le0
Mar 18, 2009

Rotten investigator!

Trivia posted:

As someone who's been to the Maldives, I recommend HEAVILY that you either get your license now, or arrange to do so while you're there. There's not much to do other than diving, as the main island is quite small and can be easily exhausted in a day. If you're on a resort then there may be more to do.

I went a couple years ago on a liveaboard diving tour. Now, I don't recommend that for someone who's new to diving, or not sure if they really like it. However, I saw some truly amazing things while I was there and wouldn't trade that for anything.

Thanks for the info, We will definitely dive there the GF is also up for it apparently :)

One question tho, I didn't say but I actually am from Switzerland. Obviously we don't have sea anywhere close but we have plenty of lakes. Is the certification for fresh water the same than for salt water?

I'm going to check for diving clubs in the lake I know there are a few.

We'll be staying at a resort close to Malé and they have a Euro Dive center with PADI courses on the isle with equipment etc...

Le0 fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jun 19, 2013

Gindack
Jan 30, 2010
No offense taken, I am a fatty mc fat fat with a side of fat (work in progress) and I know it. This weekend I was diving with a 3mm Shorty and the 18 lbs (with trim) was correct.

As for budget I am okay spending up to $700-1000 to fill out my gear, not including BCD since the LDS quoted a used one at $350. I already own, Fins, Mask, Snorkel, 3mm Shorty, Boots.

I am all for buying local, my LDS has been really good to me so far and their staff has all been friendly and helpful, actually that can be said for all the local divers I have met so far.

Hoping I can get my Buoyancy Control/Air use in check before the summer is up because I really want to check out the shaker plant in Lake Travis.

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003

Gindack posted:

Thanks for the info. I've been doing my cert dives with the Knighthawk and I'm quite comfortable and it seems to fit the 18lbs of Weight I need for freshwater, just need to see how much I can cram in for salt water dives.

This thread has been a great resource so far and I hope you guys don't mind answering some more of my questions;

Also do you guys have any particular love or hate for certain brands/models of dive computers?
Have you ever heard/had the wireless transmitter stop working on a dive?
What is the difference between a $300 reg and a $700 (besides materials, draw and piston/diaphram) or is that what drives the price?

Right now I am trying to fill out my kit while finding a nice balance between quality and price. I don't mind spending the extra money where it counts as long as I am going to get a good return on my investment.

I have a zoop (about $300) it's great. It's trivial to use, easy to read and is only missing air integration. The only thing you'd probably use that you'd get by spending more would be that. There are plenty of stories out there of air integrated transmitters stopping working, also plenty of stories about them always working.

I have an Atomic Z2x (recently superseded by the Z3 I think), it breaths great and I like the swivel.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.

Le0 posted:

Thanks for the info, We will definitely dive there the GF is also up for it apparently :)

One question tho, I didn't say but I actually am from Switzerland. Obviously we don't have sea anywhere close but we have plenty of lakes. Is the certification for fresh water the same than for salt water?

I'm going to check for diving clubs in the lake I know there are a few.

We'll be staying at a resort close to Malé and they have a Euro Dive center with PADI courses on the isle with equipment etc...

I was certified in Michigan in a muddy lake, so yes it's the same. The biggest difference of course will be visibility and buoyancy. Usually when you do certification you are instructed to get into the habit of logging all relevant information, including what wet suit you used as well as how many kilos for weight. If you get certified in a lake, your weight settings won't apply to the ocean (and vice versa). Make sure you learn how to do a buoyancy check so you can do one once you get to the Maldives. It's not difficult and will save you effort once you're in the water.

It's still a good idea to write that down though, I typically forget between dives and it's nice to have a reference.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Crunkjuice posted:

I think there are maybe 3 divers in this thread who are certified and smart enough to make a deep air dive like that and Bishop is one of them. I don't think we have to worry someone without proper training/experience here will try to emulate that. That being said, probably a fairly dangerous dive but he made it back so its all good. Also, 1.47 is pretty within safe limits. I know tec divers who set their warnings at 1.6 and have been fine. I'll set my computer to warn me at 1.5 when i dive nitrox personally.

I myself took air tonight down to a depth of 12 feet with an open water class. 13 if you count me unscrewing the cover to the suction thingy of the pool and jamming my computer down there just so i could prove a point.

I limit myself to deep air 50m.. mainly as it becomes more narcotic on rebreathers than air.. 60m is bit too much for me on Air.

But I do not like doing it if anything goes at all sideways narcosis can take over really fast.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
So, who wants to sit here with me and froth with impotent anger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPHYheR0pPk

Seriously, poo poo like this pisses me off so loving much. No touchy.

From here: http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/shark-riding-a-troubling-trend-at-popular-dive-spot/

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000

sofullofhate posted:

I... what?

PPo2 of air at 60m is... 7ATA x 0.21 = 1.47ATA.

Seems to me that Nitrogen narcosis is hardly your biggest worry at that depth with 21% oxygen in your mix. You dive trimix regularly and you're casually loving around with oxygen toxicity?

Kids, don't try this at home. :catdrugs: indeed.

not-so-ninja-edit: I'm concerned that talking about 195' dives on air will encourage inexperienced divers to try it. You do what you do, Bishop, and more power to you. Sorry for the snappy dick response.
It's all good. I was actually really concerned about doing air pre-dive. I wasn't sure how air was going to effect me at those depths because I've just never done it. I even told my team mates that I might launch a bag and surface early if I felt I needed to. The moral of the story is that on that day on that dive (and it wasn't an easy one), I did not notice any huge amount of impairment.

As far as a 1.47ppo2, yeah... that's perfectly fine with me and basically everyone else that dives that wreck on open circuit. 200' feet is the absolute max if you bottom out on the sand. 21/35 trimix is the most common gas used as a bottom mix so ppo2 would be the same regardless. Keep me below a 1.6ppo2 and I'm happy. Hell during drift deco I accidentally hit a 1.8ppo2 because I'm a big dummy that accidentally sank to like 30ft on pure o2.

Also, no problem yelling at me, I tend to post things that don't apply to most divers, such as what happens at 200' on air. Just so happens that I either don't get narced easily (I already suspected this), or that I tried deep air on a good day. It's not so much a suggestion to do deep air all the time, just my experience trying it.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jun 19, 2013

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Bishop posted:

Also, no problem yelling at me, I tend to post things that don't apply to most divers, such as what happens at 200' on air. Just so happens that I either don't get narced easily (I already suspected this), or that I tried deep air on a good day. It's not so much a suggestion to do deep air all the time, just my experience trying it.

HI BILLY MAYS HERE FOR NARCOSIS!!! :)

I kinda no longer do deep air as its so cheap to run helium on all dives.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

Gindack posted:

No offense taken, I am a fatty mc fat fat with a side of fat (work in progress) and I know it. This weekend I was diving with a 3mm Shorty and the 18 lbs (with trim) was correct.

As for budget I am okay spending up to $700-1000 to fill out my gear, not including BCD since the LDS quoted a used one at $350. I already own, Fins, Mask, Snorkel, 3mm Shorty, Boots.

I am all for buying local, my LDS has been really good to me so far and their staff has all been friendly and helpful, actually that can be said for all the local divers I have met so far.

Hoping I can get my Buoyancy Control/Air use in check before the summer is up because I really want to check out the shaker plant in Lake Travis.

Austin diver eh? Which dive shop are you going through? Shaker plant is a pretty cool dive, you'll enjoy it. Cert dives with a knighthawk makes me think scubaland.

Gindack
Jan 30, 2010
You would be correct sir, getting certed through scubaland.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

Gindack posted:

You would be correct sir, getting certed through scubaland.

HOORAAAYYYY!!! I did all my training outside of open water there and DM'ed there for two years. I've got big love for scubaland. They'll treat you right.

Gindack
Jan 30, 2010
That is pretty sweet crunk.

This whole process has been a ton of fun and I have been really comfortable in the water. Although I did have one moment of panic when I was practicing my buoyancy and I slipped below the thermocline at 20 feet and my body figured out I did not belong there. After a second or two I floated up a foot back to warmer water I was fine. Was weird that the cold water triggered that reaction like that.

One thing I seem to be having trouble with is my cesa skill, in the pool I did fine, but in my ow dive I didn't get to the surface before I had to take a breath. You guys have any pointers?

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000

Trivia posted:

So, who wants to sit here with me and froth with impotent anger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPHYheR0pPk

Seriously, poo poo like this pisses me off so loving much. No touchy.

From here: http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/shark-riding-a-troubling-trend-at-popular-dive-spot/
I, for one, join you in your anger. What the gently caress are they doing. Sure, nurse sharks are pretty docile but don't traumatize them by grabbing on to them. To most sharks, even the big mean ones, divers already come across as pretty scary because we carry a lot of metal and with our tank and fins we look pretty big. Those sharks probably think they are about to be killed.

Gindack posted:

One thing I seem to be having trouble with is my cesa skill, in the pool I did fine, but in my ow dive I didn't get to the surface before I had to take a breath. You guys have any pointers?
I'll let the higher ranking PADI guys deal with this more in depth but if you are truly out of gas completely and have no one to share with, you just have to deal with it while doing a safely timed ascent. Breathe out slowly while also slowly ascending and if your lungs are empty, do your best to keep them that way until the surface. Gulping water will just make things worse. Also, most people can hold their breath a lot longer than they realize so don't give up too early.

If it's so bad that you NEED to take a breath, nobody is around, and you have a while to go until the surface.... bolt and pray that you were smart enough to have DAN insurance. You should never be in this situation in the first place as long as you check your gas levels frequently and have a buddy. Again though, I don't really know the standards on how to properly do a CESA via PADI.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 19, 2013

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003

Bishop posted:

I'll let the higher ranking PADI guys deal with this more in depth but if you are truly out of gas completely and have no one to share with, you just have to deal with it while doing a safely timed ascent. Breathe out slowly while also slowly ascending and if your lungs are empty, do your best to keep them that way until the surface. Gulping water will just make things worse. Also, most people can hold their breath a lot longer than they realize so don't give up too early.

If it's so bad that you NEED to take a breath, nobody is around, and you have a while to go until the surface.... bolt and pray that you were smart enough to have DAN insurance. You should never be in this situation in the first place as long as you check your gas levels frequently and have a buddy. Again though, I don't really know the standards on how to properly do a CESA via PADI.

I am considering getting: http://www.spareair.com/ because why not add more safety for a (relatively) insignificant cost. Are there any horrible downsides to this device I am not seeing?

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!
Also for CESA's, don't forget that the air in your lung/tank is expanding while you ascend. If you're at any real depth, the air in your lungs will last longer than you realize as it expands, and you might even get another breath out of your tank. Maybe. Possibly. Exhale really slowly while maintaing a safe ascent rate until thats physically not possible. And then bolt then you aren't bent.

Your best bet to avoid a CESA, or make it as not lovely as possible is being as aware as possible underwater to anticipate any problems. Obviously if an 0-ring or hose blows thats a freak occurence, but sticking with your buddy and keeping track of your air religiously will help prevent any real emergencies.

Gindack, who was your instructor?

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000
I'd also say that some people just completely exhale at the beginning of their emergency ascent. Remember to KEEP EXHALING, but you don't have to empty your lungs completely at the start, especially considering that they might still be gathering useful gas for you.

Also remember to dump gas from your BC as you rise if you have gone relatively deep because it will expand and make you ascend faster than you plan to.

Aquila posted:

I am considering getting: http://www.spareair.com/ because why not add more safety for a (relatively) insignificant cost. Are there any horrible downsides to this device I am not seeing?
They can work in certain situations but they're kind of a joke around the people I dive with because they provide only a few breaths at depth. They could give you that extra minute or so while doing a CESA though. If you need a redundant gas source slinging a pony bottle (often 40 cubic feet just like a deco bottle) is a much better option. The spare air is much easier and cheaper though, I'd just warn that that it is an absolute last resort and never rely on it unless you get yourself into big trouble. If you get one, plan your dives like you don't have it.

SlicerDicer posted:

I kinda no longer do deep air as its so cheap to run helium on all dives.
Yeah it's cheap once you sell a kidney for the rebreather ;) I don't normally do deep air myself. This dive was something where I had to rent bigger tanks and I had to decide the day before what gas to put in them. I was fairly sure (at the time) that we were not going to hit this wreck because the current was horrific the days before. If we could not dive that wreck I would have wasted $150 on helium so I hedged my bets and got air. It turned out to be no big deal but I absolutely do not recommend diving deep air. Nothing felt off in my experience but that can vary day to day and especially person to person. If you have to ask, don't do it.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 19, 2013

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Bishop posted:

Yeah it's cheap once you sell a kidney for the rebreather ;) I don't normally do deep air myself. This dive was something where I had to rent bigger tanks and I had to decide the day before what gas to put in them. I was fairly sure (at the time) that we were not going to hit this wreck because the current was horrific the days before. If we could not dive that wreck I would have wasted $150 on helium so I hedged my bets and got air. It turned out to be no big deal but I absolutely do not recommend diving deep air. Nothing felt off in my experience but that can vary day to day and especially person to person. If you have to ask, don't do it.

I could be wrong? But I think selling kidneys is illegal? And yes 150$ is a ton to waste on helium :(

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000
Never said they were my kidneys.

Wibbleman
Apr 19, 2006

Fluffy doesn't want to be sacrificed

Bishop posted:

I, for one, join you in your anger. What the gently caress are they doing. Sure, nurse sharks are pretty docile but don't traumatize them by grabbing on to them. To most sharks, even the big mean ones, divers already come across as pretty scary because we carry a lot of metal and with our tank and fins we look pretty big. Those sharks probably think they are about to be killed.

If you piss them off enough, they will still turn around and bite the gently caress out of you. Trigger tends to be their tail fins, which if you are hanging on the dorsal fin you can hit with your fins. And now you just got your arm bit off. And some stupid rear end in a top hat will do this, get bit and die, and suddenly it will be the sharks fault.

Also sharks are loving amazing fish, and I feel privileged every time I am in the water with them. Though great whites tend to stay the gently caress away from divers in our waters as the migrating between feeding grounds (which is a shame, as I would like to see those stupid fuckers try to shark ride on a white pointer), closest I have got is about 30m away when I was on a pinnacle rock at 30m, and the shark was having a look at a school of fish at around 45m's at an angle.

Bull and Tiger sharks I won't go near though, those are dangerous.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Bishop posted:

Never said they were my kidneys.

Never specified it was not Kidney Beans! TOO!!!

macado
Jun 3, 2003

How to keep an idiot busy, Click here.

Aquila posted:

I am considering getting: http://www.spareair.com/ because why not add more safety for a (relatively) insignificant cost. Are there any horrible downsides to this device I am not seeing?


Please don't get a spare air. There is sort of a running joke with them. If you get one and you run out of air on your dive then you'll probably run out of air twice using a spare air. It will only serve to provide you a fault sense of security.

Spare Air does not really provide a sufficient volume of gas to make a safe or even controlled ascent at a reasonable depth.

If you're really concerned I'd recommend getting a small pony bottle. An AL19 or AL30 (19cuft or 30cu ft aluminum tank) would be the MINIMUM sizes that I would recommend. This is a completely isolated unit that you never factor into your gas planning. Even a AL19 should be able to get you to the surface from 130ft as long as you're within no decompression limits.

With that being said..this may sound harsh but there is simply no excuse (barring major equipment malfunction which is rare) to run out air. Plan your dive and dive your plan while monitoring your air consumption. If you or a dive buddy make it a regular habit to run out of air then you need to find a new dive buddy or find a different sport. Nobody should be running out of gas on a dive.

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum

Gindack posted:


One thing I seem to be having trouble with is my cesa skill, in the pool I did fine, but in my ow dive I didn't get to the surface before I had to take a breath. You guys have any pointers?

This may have been answered by someone better than me, but as a diver who had consumption issues for a bit til I figured it out, here's the thought that made me start getting it.

Yes, you never stop breathing, but there is no rule about your breathing rate.

That means exhale slowly and smoothly, inhale slowly and smoothly. So, to your question, for a cesa, break the inhale rule, then trickle your exhale - you were sending a ton of oxygen in addition to carbon dioxide in those bubbles when you were ascending. Don't treat it like a pool ascent, treat it like there are two things in the world your life depends on (and it does):

1: how slowly you can exhale
2: how consistently you can exhale

Balance those and you'll be doing good. That's how I look at it, at least

E: and gently caress a bunch of shark abusers. I wanna go on that dive and grab their regs and see how they like it.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

macado posted:

With that being said..this may sound harsh but there is simply no excuse (barring major equipment malfunction which is rare) to run out air. Plan your dive and dive your plan while monitoring your air consumption. If you or a dive buddy make it a regular habit to run out of air then you need to find a new dive buddy or find a different sport. Nobody should be running out of gas on a dive.

If my buddies dont notify me and turn around at 1800psi I dont dive with them. Mainly as if something cool shows up I want that 300psi buffer to hang out :)

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum
Y'all have no idea, or maybe you do, how many loving times we've watched idiots run out of air on Caribbean dives. On my last set of pictures, take the dive with the big rear end turtle. Some loving idiot took their fins off because (when I asked post dive, since I spent valuable air sprinting to the, to see if they needed something) "my feet were hurting with them". Then that person didn't bother to tell anyone except they were at like 300 halfway through the stop.

In Aruba last year, there was a brother/sister pair that, while they didn't take off their fins and kick hard to keep up with everyone, were just loving idiots about consumption. Every loving dive, and we did probably 3 2-tank dive days with them, one of the two of them hosed up and required a DM to lock hands and hand over the second stage.

How are you so oblivious? This can kill you and it will be your own goddamn fault. Seeing this idiocy just gives me a ton of respect for you instructors and DMs, because holy loving poo poo.

macado
Jun 3, 2003

How to keep an idiot busy, Click here.

jackyl posted:

Y'all have no idea, or maybe you do, how many loving times we've watched idiots run out of air on Caribbean dives.
I think most people on here realize this but I just figured I would add some stuff..

It is definitely a common occurrence although it really shouldn't be. I believe gas planning is something that should be taught early on however it is very easy to get away without knowing any of this on a typical profile in the Caribbean or somewhere in SE Asia like Thailand.

There are lot of people who even at higher level have never had to plan or execute dives by themselves.

A lot of people even at OW/AOW/Resue level are taught to simply follow their friendly dive guide/divemaster. The often heard phrase is "return to boat with 500psi/50bar." without regard or actual understanding of what that means or how much gas is involved.

At 500psi, an aluminum 80 (typical tank used in warm warmers) has about 12.9cu/ft of air. 500psi/3000psi x 77.4 = 12.9cu/ft. At 130fsw with a paniced diver with increased breathing rate this is a very dangerous situation.

BlueBayou
Jan 16, 2008
Before she mends must sicken worse
So we are supposed to return to the boat with 500psi, but when should I start to ascend?

IE how much air is usually used in ascending and the safety stop?

Ive been taught nothing other than to tell the DM when i have 700psi left

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

macado posted:


A lot of people even at OW/AOW/Resue level are taught to simply follow their friendly dive guide/divemaster. The often heard phrase is "return to boat with 500psi/50bar." without regard or actual understanding of what that means or how much gas is involved.


Rule here is head to boat at 800.. Be at boat with 500

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Aquila
Jan 24, 2003

Bishop posted:

They can work in certain situations but they're kind of a joke around the people I dive with because they provide only a few breaths at depth. They could give you that extra minute or so while doing a CESA though. If you need a redundant gas source slinging a pony bottle (often 40 cubic feet just like a deco bottle) is a much better option. The spare air is much easier and cheaper though, I'd just warn that that it is an absolute last resort and never rely on it unless you get yourself into big trouble. If you get one, plan your dives like you don't have it.

macado posted:

Please don't get a spare air. There is sort of a running joke with them. If you get one and you run out of air on your dive then you'll probably run out of air twice using a spare air. It will only serve to provide you a fault sense of security.

Spare Air does not really provide a sufficient volume of gas to make a safe or even controlled ascent at a reasonable depth.

If you're really concerned I'd recommend getting a small pony bottle. An AL19 or AL30 (19cuft or 30cu ft aluminum tank) would be the MINIMUM sizes that I would recommend. This is a completely isolated unit that you never factor into your gas planning. Even a AL19 should be able to get you to the surface from 130ft as long as you're within no decompression limits.

With that being said..this may sound harsh but there is simply no excuse (barring major equipment malfunction which is rare) to run out air. Plan your dive and dive your plan while monitoring your air consumption. If you or a dive buddy make it a regular habit to run out of air then you need to find a new dive buddy or find a different sport. Nobody should be running out of gas on a dive.

Yeah I've never run out of air or came close to it, and don't intend to. I check my air constantly and set conservative limits that I communicate with my buddy ahead of time. I make sure to ask how much air my buddy has regularly as well. I'm just very safety minded (I'm the guy who's planning hiring a dm or di for a day to do safety drills). I also don't (currently) dive deep, or tec, or deco. That being said there is the chance (small I hope) of equipment malfunction, and I do make mistakes (everyone makes mistakes). One way or another if I continue to dive for fun I intend to have a backup air source.

One reason I was not seriously considering an AL40 pony bottle type setup is a dive I was on where the DI was working with another guy to practice with a pony bottle (AL40 I think) before the guy's solo class and it seemed like a significant amount of bulk to carry compared to a spare air. On the other hand a full pony bottle setup with an AL40 looks to only be nominally twice as much (~$550, just looking around dris quickly) as a spare air. Hell I might get and carry both, why not? Regardless I can assure everyone I would never count any redundant or backup air source in my gas planning.

An aside on safety, at my job I'm in large part responsible for protecting thousands of customers' irreplaceable data. A significant dataloss event could mean the end of the company. We have multiple protections in place right now, but I'm still always looking for way to make things better. To that end I'm considering major capital outlay for data storage devices that will significantly improve many aspects of our data integrity situation. Once that's in place I will still continue to work constantly to improve our data protection systems and test existing ones. For scuba diving then redundant systems are even more important to me, because it's my life on the line. Then there are things like just today when I was the only resident in my building to show up to yearly safety training the management hosts. Even then I was reminded I don't have my emergency kit built out enough at all. The kit will likely include a spare air for building escape since I'm on the 18th floor,even though a major highrise fire is something far less likely than an out of air emergency while scuba diving (yes I will ask some firemen about this scenario). Also watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PL3IuPREXo.

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