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Ho-lee poo poo, spawned right next to a mansion and after rooting around found a metric fuckton of skill books and a broadsword  Hopefully this guy won't eat a horrible death due to my own ignorance. 'The mini-nuke went thunk? I guess it was a dud, then!' 
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Jun 24, 2013 12:04
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Do vehicle trunks have infinite capacity now? I'm making a brand new super hoarder in 0.6, and I managed to fill a trunk past the previous maximum number of items From "8, 9, :, ;" to "`aa, `ab, `ac" which have to be manually selected Does anyone know what the new capacity is?
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Jun 24, 2013 12:17
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TheKnife posted:Do vehicle trunks have infinite capacity now? I'm making a brand new super hoarder in 0.6, and I managed to fill a trunk past the previous maximum number of items They actually said in a source commit 3-4 days ago how the new item stacking calculates a max limit, but I can't find it now. But suffice to say, it's now based on volume instead of a hard item limit. It used to be that a container or tile could store 64 items, no matter what they were. Now you're able to store a ridiculous amount of small items on a tile, but volume heavy items like clothes and car parts will still relatively quickly fill a tile. Personally, the change I would have liked to see made is an end to item overflow. When you fill up a tile, I'd much rather the game simply tell you that the tile is full and keep the items that didn't fit in your inventory. As it is, when items overflow into adjacent tiles, I have to pick all that poo poo back up and find a place for it, or much worse, it fucks up my sorting system, which usually involves like items next to each other (i.e. guns in one cabinet, ammo in the cabinet next to it). Since I'm already in wishful thinking mode, I wish like items on tiles and in containers would stack like they do in your inventory. I realize part of the reason they don't do this now is that there's no system in place to only pick up a number of items (like there is to only drop a certain number), but it would certainly make it easier to sort through tiles with a lot of stuff on them. It'd also be very nice to have them category sorted like your inventory is as well. The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 12:28
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The King of Swag posted:They actually said in a source commit 3-4 days ago how the new item stacking calculates a max limit, but I can't find it now. But suffice to say, it's now based on volume instead of a hard item limit. It used to be that a container or tile could store 64 items, no matter what they were. Now you're able to store a ridiculous amount of small items on a tile, but volume heavy items like clothes and car parts will still relatively quickly fill a tile. That makes sense. My hoarding vehicle designs may need some reworking if I want to keep fitting dozens of steel frames
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Jun 24, 2013 12:32
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The King of Swag posted:Personally, the change I would have liked to see made is an end to item overflow. When you fill up a tile, I'd much rather the game simply tell you that the tile is full and keep the items that didn't fit in your inventory. As it is, when items overflow into adjacent tiles, I have to pick all that poo poo back up and find a place for it, or much worse, it fucks up my sorting system, which usually involves like items next to each other (i.e. guns in one cabinet, ammo in the cabinet next to it).
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Jun 24, 2013 12:39
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Cardiovorax posted:Use the extended '/' menu for inventory management. It does exactly that (and is just generally better.) Which leads to say the next logical step for the inventory/item storing system is to implement stacking by default. I'm sick of having 2 pages of rags in my inventory when there is now no good reason not to stack them anymore.
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Jun 24, 2013 12:49
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Cardiovorax posted:After screwing around with the code for about two weeks now, I'm with you on that. I actually think you're kinda understating how bad it is. There's no way to unfuck spaghetti code this bad short of completely re-coding it from scratch. I kinda doubt they're planning to do anything about it, because it would take months during which they wouldn't be able to do anything else at all. $7000 seems like a reasonable amount of money to get some of the un-loving done. That might honestly be the best way to spend it really, and if they got the majority of things loading from data files, and started applying some coding standards, it would make further development far quicker and easier. The best course in my eyes would be hiring someone to do that, then halting any changes to the core game and only adding things that are already fairly modular and could be folded into the new code without too much trouble. More buildings/enemies/strange places to explore and the like.
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Jun 24, 2013 13:46
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Felime posted:$7000 seems like a reasonable amount of money to get some of the un-loving done. That might honestly be the best way to spend it really, and if they got the majority of things loading from data files, and started applying some coding standards, it would make further development far quicker and easier. Just coming up with an engine that can deal with all of the things that are currently in the game in a sane way, never mind those that are planned for the future, would be a multiple-month effort for one person, and definitely not just 7000$ worth of work. Once that's done you are nowhere near a playable state either, you'd need to decipher and re-implement all the random poo poo that the game currently does. I seriously doubt that the current maintainers could tell you off the cuff what any particular bit of code does, either, because they either didn't write it or wrote it so badly (and documented it even worse) that they can't even read it themselves anymore. I'm kinda starting to change my mind on that Kickstarter. They won't get nearly as much use out of it as they're thinking they will.
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Jun 24, 2013 14:17
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Cardiovorax posted:No, it seriously isn't. It's not just that the code that needs fixing, the whole design is broken from the bottom up. Nothing is where it should be. Classes tie into each other in the stupidest ways. There's no consistent framework that ties everything together. The object oriented capabilities of C++ pretty much aren't made use of at all. I don't think whales did any planning for future features at all, frankly. He just stuffed new ideas into the code wherever he could make them fit. Oh god, really? I guess I assumed it was better than it actually was. How do you write a large, complex program in C++ without making use of objects? Actually, scratch that, I know the answer to that already, and it is spaghetti code. Given how much I have enjoyed the game, I might try to get a handle on some aspect of the code and unfuck it somewhat, or at least move functionality out of hard coded values buried in the code. Remember kids, if your code isn't half comments, or if you gave the pseudocode to your mother she couldn't understand it, it is probably worthless the second someone else has to look at it.
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Jun 24, 2013 14:40
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I'll give you an example: Every turn, the game checks whether your stats are the way they should be. It does this by, in order: [*]Resetting your stats to their maximum [*]Checking every single ability/mutation/bionic for whether you have it this turn, or whether it is active [*]Adding up the total and making it your current stat Instead of doing something sane, like making ability.gain() call the player.changeCurrectStrength(+/-2) method or something like that. The whole code is like that.
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Jun 24, 2013 14:49
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It also folds everything you can pick up, regardless of what it is, under the single parent class "item" and determines its behavior with a function pointer to whatever the hell it needs to do. Now, given the sheer variety of functionality items have, function pointers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to make everything inherit the same stuff to the point where you can check if a heavy stick contains a volume of liquid and other weirdness like that, there is no excuse to dynamic_cast poo poo all over the place to make stuff fit together which I strongly suspect is the culprit behind heap corruptions people have occasionally reported.
PiCroft fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 15:07
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I went ahead and tested vehicle trunk capacity It's 500 volume units for a regular trunk, I don't know if it's different for the other kinds
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Jun 24, 2013 17:09
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PiCroft posted:It also folds everything you can pick up, regardless of what it is, under the single parent class "item" and determines its behavior with a function pointer to whatever the hell it needs to do. Now, given the sheer variety of functionality items have, function pointers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to make everything inherit the same stuff to the point where you can check if a heavy stick contains a volume of liquid and other weirdness like that, there is no excuse to dynamic_cast poo poo all over the place to make stuff fit together which I strongly suspect is the culprit behind heap corruptions people have occasionally reported. Oh god, the rabbit hole just keeps going deeper and deeper. The map generation. It is all. Hard coded. And not even in the way, say, recipes are hard coded, as in a way that could easily be moved into a text file, if proper error handling code existed (does it exist? Is there any way to inform the user of malformed input besides terminating and leaving a message in the log file? Is there even a real way of terminating the program outside of the menu?) . There is one massive switch case full of for loops. At least there are line/circle drawing functions included, and a rotate function so they don't have to do the same code 4 times for a house. I just collapsed the draw_map function to find the rotate function to make sure it actually existed. It does. I also discovered that draw_map is over SIX THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED lines long. What the everloving christ?
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Jun 24, 2013 19:14
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Felime posted:Coding Horror  How the hell do they plan to expand and improve the game? Judging by these descriptions it looks like only a total rewrite can save it.
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Jun 24, 2013 20:35
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GoneWithTheTornado posted:
Dwarf Fortress is also a coding nightmare, from what I've heard. Doesn't stop them from adding new features, but it does mean that half the development cycle involves going back and completely rewriting all the early code.
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Jun 24, 2013 20:46
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Yeah, but Toady wrote all his code himself, he presumably has some idea what he's doing. Cataclysm is now an open source project, where devs are expected to drop in and out periodically. That makes more of a difference than you would think. I mean, clearly they're still making do, but wow, I really wouldn't want to be in their place. Rynoto posted:Toady is also some sort of inhuman mad genius who has created something never even dreamt of by most developers. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 20:57
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Toady is also some sort of inhuman mad genius who has created something never even dreamt of by most developers. Cataclysm as awesome as it is is still a pretty standard rouge-like that could benefit by following standard coding practices.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:00
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Such is the hardships with this kind of project. It was originally just a hobby project that Whales just quit, it was never meant to be maintained this long. I have it on good authority that the DDA team looks at the GDA suggestions spreadsheet often so I guess that explains their superior arrow balancing. PiCroft: When you're ready to release a new version let me know and I'll update the GDA post with all the proper info.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:04
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Cardiovorax posted:Yeah, but Toady wrote all his code himself, he presumably has some idea what he's doing. Cataclysm is now an open source project, where devs are expected to drop in and out periodically. That makes more of a difference than you would think. Yeah, toady definitely has a good idea what he's doing, though I am sure that dwarf fortess' code has plenty of eccentricities that you get when someone is working on code nobody else is ever meant to see and use, and not following any style guide. The majority of the game's content is also contained in external files, making small tweaks easy and helping to keep the code uncluttered by the massive amount of text that is content. However, this: Vengarr posted:but it does mean that half the development cycle involves going back and completely rewriting all the early code. is probably the main thing that keeps things semi organized. Toady knows where he done hosed up, and knows how to fix it, and how to replace the code without breaking anything. I am willing to bet that almost any major structural change to Cataclysm would just upset the house of cards that is the code base, and a lot of the coding is just veeeery carefully working around it, hoping nothing terrible happens because you tried to change something. Of course, you're just putting on more cards at that point, and someday it's all going to come tumbling down.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:37
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Well I finally got a working car together. Got it fueled up, loaded with food and weapons, got it, started it and promptly plowed into a building at about 1000mph and the entire thing disintegrated. Including my dude who had been alive for a long, long, time. I have gone through three restart characters, each one murdered either by wolves or by those drat brown spiders. I swear that those things appear out of thin air as soon as your health drops below a certain threshold.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:31
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They totally do appear out of thin air. No relation to your current health, though.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:40
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:It definitely uses the same world for different characters, I died and my new guy appeared in the same safehouse. TerminalBlue posted:That was indeed a bug. I believe if you closed the client between deaths the map would reset the fog of war which was probably the intended functioning. Oh yeah, I know it uses the same world, I was wondering about the map view being reset. Just to get the feel for the general area, I would make a character who can just run and run and run and run and scout out the surrounding area a bit, pick up/make a few basics like a backpack or pouch, then go die doing something stupid. Make a new character, check where I've been and continue. The fog of war reset is probably to prevent that, but that's an odd time to reset it. Keep playing, keep your map. Stop playing and shut down, map goes away. But now catching up on posts and seeing it's a coding nightmare, I think I understand now.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:46
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So how can I get heating elements? The wiki claims they come from lighters, but those just disassemble into pilot lights.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:03
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Hotplates and soldering irons. Probably some other miscellaneous stuff, but those definitely.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:07
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Looks like I might need to take a road trip then, I need a hotplate and purifier and I've only ever found one soldering iron. You should be able to scavenge them from ovens or something.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:10
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Soldering irons are common as poo poo in electronics stores. That's a good idea in general, though, I'd put it into the GDA suggestion sheet.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:13
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Electronic stores are great places to find soldering irons, if you have any of those around. I ended up carrying about a dozen out of the last one I looted.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:13
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Is there a way to reassign bionic abilities to new keys? Cuz if there isn't, I think I just got screwed out of Repair Nanobots.
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Jun 25, 2013 04:19
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In your save file you should see something like thisquote:bio_night_vision d 0 0 1 20 28 0 0 0 0 You would just change the "d" to an "e" or any other letter and it should reflect the change in game.
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Jun 25, 2013 04:23
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There wouldnt happen to be a repo set up for the GDA mod would there? I feel like I would be wasting effort messing around with official.
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Jun 25, 2013 04:24
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A Miserable Robot posted:In your save file you should see something like this You are a scholar and a gentleman both
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Jun 25, 2013 04:36
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haximus prime posted:There wouldnt happen to be a repo set up for the GDA mod would there? I feel like I would be wasting effort messing around with official. https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA
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Jun 25, 2013 04:39
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What is that new "Focus" meter? I can't find an explanation about that.
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Jun 25, 2013 11:09
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Thats for the DDA build, the GDA build is here: https://github.com/JonTerp/Cataclysm-DDA Also, no offense to Jon but I'm thinking of putting the Furry Body mutations back in. It was a useful mutation and I disagree with its removal because furries (if that were the case we'd have to remove all mutations). Is this okay with people (Jon included)? In addition, if you have suggestions and bug reports, please use Jon's form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19yPWYabJaKwv-FIGv5YSE4tcYZVRKMkjbI8dzA7yu68/viewform And you can see the responses here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AncNp4c6stYIdExxRzRpODVzSlF1c05xWUxIdmZnMkE#gid=0 Please ignore mine, its better if we keep the suggestions in one place.
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Jun 25, 2013 11:20
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Jack Trades posted:What is that new "Focus" meter? I can't find an explanation about that. I think there's an explanation in the Help menu, but as I understand it it's basically a combination of the previous xp system and skill comprehension I don't know if it's a straight up percentage (Base rate 100, you learn skills at 10% speed if your focus is 10) but that seems like a reasonable assumption. Get more focus faster by having high morale, and the fast learner perk also invisibly increases your effective focus by 20
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Jun 25, 2013 11:27
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PiCroft posted:Also, no offense to Jon but I'm thinking of putting the Furry Body mutations back in. It was a useful mutation and I disagree with its removal because furries (if that were the case we'd have to remove all mutations). Is this okay with people (Jon included)? Are those the mutations that slowly turn you into an animal basically? Like the ones that slowly turn you into a plant? I'm fine with that, the furry thing is pretty loving kneejerk at this point. Hur hur we hate furries, cool, don't prevent me from mutating into some sort of were-beast in a zombie video game because of it. At least that's how I feel. Just don't, you know, mod in animal sex. Mutations are cool.
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Jun 25, 2013 11:30
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It kinda reminds me of this one guy I used to know who would lose his poo poo about furries if you ever played any non human character in Smash Brothers. People touching their dick somewhere else shouldn't mean that nobody gets to be Donkey Kong and do the grab/carry off the stage thing, that was the best. Also you would basically have to remove every single possible thing in the game if you don't want to weird internet fetishists to creep over it.
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Jun 25, 2013 13:04
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Moridin920 posted:Are those the mutations that slowly turn you into an animal basically? Like the ones that slowly turn you into a plant? Amen to that. Half the mutant superheroes out there have some kind of animal aspect. It's just childish (in a special kind of way that only happens on the internet) to cut stuff like that because someone, somewhere may have a fetish for it.
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Jun 25, 2013 13:06
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Put it back in so I can get back to masturbating to ascii already.
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Jun 25, 2013 13:08
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TheKnife posted:I think there's an explanation in the Help menu, but as I understand it it's basically a combination of the previous xp system and skill comprehension
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Jun 25, 2013 13:10
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