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Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

a bad enough dude posted:

Mohamed El Baradei was not an "inspirational leader of the revolution." He was barely an important figure outside of a western media obsession with him.

I'm sorry but no. He was and is an inspirational leader of the revolution and it's not just western media trying to paint it as such. The core of the Jan. 25 movement was centered around his activism in the year earlier and he was the inspirational leader for most of the people involved in it, including Wael Ghonim.

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Amused to Death
Aug 10, 2009

google "The Night Witches", and prepare for :stare:

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Soooo they are basically going to go with the MB are a bunch of extremist and now is the time to for moderate, inclusive leadership.

Makes sense, isn't one of the criticisms from everyone from secular liberals to the salafists is that the Muslim Brotherhood wouldn't listen to anyone who isn't the Muslim Brotherhood.

Petey
Nov 26, 2005

For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

Volkerball posted:

You don't have to apologize. Here's a timeline from Ahram Online.


Then just keeping up with the thread and twitter should keep you up to date.

Thank you!

ufarn
May 30, 2009
When is the military's presser due? I thought it was now.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

ufarn posted:

When is the military's presser due? I thought it was now.

It was supposed to start 9 minutes ago if you believed the Ynet sources. Been qwaiting 4 hours now. Sources said "its done and would be shown momentarily" 20 minutes ago.

a bad enough dude
Jun 30, 2007

APPARENTLY NOT A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STICK TO ONE THING AT A TIME WHETHER ITS PBPS OR A SHITTY BROWSER GAME THAT I BEG MONEY FOR AND RIPPED FROM TROPICO. ALSO I LET RETARDED UKRANIANS THAT CAN'T PROGRAM AND HAVE 2000 HOURS IN GARRY'S MOD RUN MY SHIT.

Ham posted:

I'm sorry but no. He was and is an inspirational leader of the revolution and it's not just western media trying to paint it as such. The core of the Jan. 25 movement was centered around his activism in the year earlier and he was the inspirational leader for most of the people involved in it, including Wael Ghonim.

Baradei was receiving less than 2% in the polls before he decided to withdraw from the Presidential election. The core of the Revolution was certainly NOT centered around his activism, he wasn't even in Egypt until the 27th. Just because he was a liberal opponent of the government prior to the Revolution and was favored by Western media does not make him the inspiration for it.

El Ste
Aug 22, 2010

ufarn posted:

When is the military's presser due? I thought it was now.

Egypt time! Bound to run late.

pistolshit
May 15, 2004

From the Reuters Live Blog
http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News

quote:

REUTERS: Egypt state-run Al-Ahram paper quotes presidency source saying the army told Mursi at 7 pm (17:00 GMT) that he was no longer president.

William Bear
Oct 26, 2012

"That's what they all say!"

Ham posted:

Apparently these people will join the head of the military for the speech/statement:

- Mohamed El Baradei, inspirational leader of the revolution/former IAEA chief/someone that's been thoroughly disparaged by Mubarak and Islamic media.

- Ahmed El Tayeb, Sheikh and head of Al Azhar University, the highest institution of Sunni islamic learning.

- Pope Tawadros II, head of the Coptic Church.

Interesting role for the Coptic Pope to take. I read an article here less than a month ago, he seemed to be positioning himself as above politics, maybe to lessen the Church's use as a scapegoat by Islamists. I suppose he's getting involved now to get a more Christian-friendly government?

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

a bad enough dude posted:

Baradei was receiving less than 2% in the polls before he decided to withdraw from the Presidential election. The core of the Revolution was certainly NOT centered around his activism, he wasn't even in Egypt until the 27th. Just because he was a liberal opponent of the government prior to the Revolution and was favored by Western media does not make him the inspiration for it.

No one expected Baradei to win a presidential race and his withdrawal had more to do with the constitutional referendum that the military/MB passed a few months after the uprising and his refusal to work under that framework. He also faced one year of intense disinformation and personal attacks by the Mubarak regime, and another 6 months of the same from the MB and the military because of his opposition to said constitutional amendment referendum and insistence on "constitution first". You can also add to that that he's noot very charismatic in addition to his stutter.

That doesn't alter the fact that the core of the Jan. 25 movement was directly influenced by his open opposition to the Mubarak regime for a year earlier.

It also doesn't change the fact that he took the reins of the anti-MB opposition after the MB passed their constitution and started the National Salvation Front with Hamdein Sabbahi and Amr Moussa. This was the main anti-MB group in the last several months and eventually, the "Tamarod" movement sprung out of it and aligned itself alongside it, gathering 22 million votes to remove the president and setting the stage and date for these demonstrations. That same movement has come out and said that they accept representation by Baradei and their roadmap includes him being given the post of Prime Minister to salvage the country.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!
It's on.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!
The head of the miltiary surrounded by some officers, the sheikh of Azhar, the Pope, a representative of the Salafist movement, Mohamed El Baradei and Yehya al Gamal, a constitutional expert.

The Armed Forces could no longer turn it's eyes from the demands of the people.

The preident's speech, last night, before the 48 hour time limit was over, did not come up with solutions that would defuse this situation, this is why the armed forces was led to consult with representatives' of national powers without exclusion, and have come up with a roadmap for the situation in Egypt:

a- The consitution is temporarily disabled.
b- Head of Constitutional Court to become temporary President.
c- Has the power to announce consitutional amendments during this period.
d- Formation of all-inclusive government.
e- Formation of committee to review necessary changes.
f- Law for election of parliament.
g- Guidelines for media.
h- Active inclusion of youth in governance.

Ham fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jul 3, 2013

iCe-CuBe.
Jun 9, 2011
This translator on Aljazeera English is loving horrible.

Kurt_Cobain
Jul 9, 2001
http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

NEED TOILET PAPER
Mar 22, 2013

by XyloJW
Where are you guys watching all these press releases and such? Preferably with some form of translation since I don't speak Arabic.

Edit: thanks Kurt Cobain

Ballz
Dec 16, 2003

it's mario time

iCe-CuBe. posted:

This translator on Aljazeera English is loving horrible.

Better than the feed I'm watching right now, which has no translation whatsoever. :shrug:

Am I correct in assuming the army is saying it's now fully in control?

Kurt_Cobain
Jul 9, 2001

Ballz posted:

Better than the feed I'm watching right now, which has no translation whatsoever. :shrug:

Am I correct in assuming the army is saying it's now fully in control?
There will be another election held.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!
The preident's speech, last night, before the 48 hour time limit was over, did not come up with solutions that would defuse this situation, this is why the armed forces was led to consult with representatives' of national powers without exclusion, and have come up with a roadmap for the situation in Egypt:

a- The consitution is temporarily disabled.
b- Head of Constitutional Court to become temporary President.
c- Has the power to announce consitutional amendments during this period.
d- Formation of all-inclusive government.
e- Formation of committee to review necessary changes.
f- Law for election of parliament.
g- Guidelines for media.
h- Active inclusion of youth in governance.
i- Formation of Committee seeking national reconciliation.

Will not tolerate any threats to the people of Egypt.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
I'm really not trying to be contrarian or anything but is there anyone in these factions protesting who are troubled by the idea that the army can just tell the president 'you're not president anymore now we're in charge'? Like, if I was in that crowd I'd be pretty loving terrified of this speech.

edit: what does 'guidelines for media' even mean?

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I'm really not trying to be contrarian or anything but is there anyone in these factions protesting who are troubled by the idea that the army can just tell the president 'you're not president anymore now we're in charge'? Like, if I was in that crowd I'd be pretty loving terrified of this speech.

edit: what does 'guidelines for media' even mean?

No, The crowd asked for the military to please oust Morsi for them so they wouldn't be terrified because it is what they asked for.

Amused to Death
Aug 10, 2009

google "The Night Witches", and prepare for :stare:

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I'm really not trying to be contrarian or anything but is there anyone in these factions protesting who are troubled by the idea that the army can just tell the president 'you're not president anymore now we're in charge'? Like, if I was in that crowd I'd be pretty loving terrified of this speech.

If you were in the crowd you'd probably be pretty ecstatic that the military just saved the country from Morsi or something.

Gen. Ripper
Jan 12, 2013


Hahaha AJE straight to the point

AJE News Ticker posted:

BREAKING NEWS: Egyptian military overthrows president Mohamed Morsi. More soon...

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.
Largest protest in Egypt's history and gov't would not change to address peoples' demands.

What would you rather have happened? This is (relatively) bloodless and new elections scheduled immediately.

SixPabst
Oct 24, 2006

So basically the MB is out of government and the head of the constitutional court (who is surprisingly not corrupt) assumes the role of president until elections, correct?

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
It's actually better than immediate elections. The head of the court is going to become the acting prime minister for a year to 18 months while they establish the new legal framework for the government. Then elections can happen instead of rushing into them like they did with Morsi/Shafiq. This reminds me of the US overthrowing the Articles of Confederation and then creating the Constitution. They learned from the mistakes of their trial run, and now they can do things right.

Dr. Tough
Oct 22, 2007

Volkerball posted:

It's actually better than immediate elections. The head of the court is going to become the acting prime minister for a year to 18 months while they establish the new legal framework for the government. Then elections can happen instead of rushing into them like they did with Morsi/Shafiq. This reminds me of the US overthrowing the Articles of Confederation and then creating the Constitution. They learned from the mistakes of their trial run, and now they can do things right.

This is actually nothing like what happened with the Articles of Confederation...

iCe-CuBe.
Jun 9, 2011
Coptic pope is speaking now

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
The precedent of the military being able to tell the leader 'hey you're not in charge anymore' is troubling to me, is what I'm saying. I guess this is just my family upbringing talking but where we're from when the military is able to decide how valid a leader is that's really a good thing.

I guess I'm just thinking what stops the army from doing this again?

WaterIsPoison
Nov 5, 2009

Tatum Girlparts posted:

The precedent of the military being able to tell the leader 'hey you're not in charge anymore' is troubling to me, is what I'm saying. I guess this is just my family upbringing talking but where we're from when the military is able to decide how valid a leader is that's really a good thing.

I guess I'm just thinking what stops the army from doing this again?

A lack of broad support from the majority of the population?

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Dr. Tough posted:

This is actually nothing like what happened with the Articles of Confederation...

It's similar in that they realized their first try didn't work so they chucked it and tried again. The process of going from one to the other was quite different, however.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

The precedent of the military being able to tell the leader 'hey you're not in charge anymore' is troubling to me, is what I'm saying. I guess this is just my family upbringing talking but where we're from when the military is able to decide how valid a leader is that's really a good thing.

I guess I'm just thinking what stops the army from doing this again?

The people.

The people of Egypt told Morsi "You are poo poo stop being president you rear end in a top hat" and he ignored them and continued his poo poo, so they go to the military and ask them to toss out Morsi. So the Precedent is that the people can compel the military to act not the military can act on its own.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

Dr. Tough posted:

This is actually nothing like what happened with the Articles of Confederation...

I'm not taking it any deeper than the initial framework created by the US being insufficient and requiring a replacement relatively soon after. That's fair.

fspades
Jun 3, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Volkerball posted:

It's actually better than immediate elections. The head of the court is going to become the acting prime minister for a year to 18 months while they establish the new legal framework for the government. Then elections can happen instead of rushing into them like they did with Morsi/Shafiq. This reminds me of the US overthrowing the Articles of Confederation and then creating the Constitution. They learned from the mistakes of their trial run, and now they can do things right.

And meanwhile during those 18 months the economic situation will continue to deteriorate with no decisive action taken.

Miruvor
Jan 19, 2007
Pillbug

AtomikKrab posted:

The people.

The people of Egypt told Morsi "You are poo poo stop being president you rear end in a top hat" and he ignored them and continued his poo poo, so they go to the military and ask them to toss out Morsi. So the Precedent is that the people can compel the military to act not the military can act on its own.

Shouldn't the overthrow of Mubarak be considered the first time this was used, this is just the second time?

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM

I took a shot of whiskey when Mubarak fell two years ago, and that was out of celebration. I just took another one while watching al-Sisi's presser announcing Morsi's overthrow, and I'm not sure if that's out of celebration or trepidation over what can happen in the coming days and weeks.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

AtomikKrab posted:

The people.

The people of Egypt told Morsi "You are poo poo stop being president you rear end in a top hat" and he ignored them and continued his poo poo, so they go to the military and ask them to toss out Morsi. So the Precedent is that the people can compel the military to act not the military can act on its own.

How many people is 'the people' though? What happens if after the next election you get all the opposition parties to protest, does the army take a head count in the square before they roll up?

Amused to Death
Aug 10, 2009

google "The Night Witches", and prepare for :stare:
e:^ well, for starters, largest protests in history amount of people


Perhaps Egypt should try for a parliamentary system this time around, it makes removing shithead governments at least a tad bit easier.

pillsburysoldier
Feb 11, 2008

Yo, peep that shit

Manar Mohsen ‏@ManarMohsen
1m

Anger & dismay at the #Rabaa. 100s have formed rows, armed with sticks, as though preparing for an attack. Chant, "down with military rule!"

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Amused to Death posted:

Perhaps Egypt should try for a parliamentary system this time around, it makes removing shithead governments at least a tad bit easier.

How?

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Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

Tatum Girlparts posted:

How many people is 'the people' though? What happens if after the next election you get all the opposition parties to protest, does the army take a head count in the square before they roll up?

If the President does everything he can to spit in the face of those protesters while offering up no concessions, then it's not really necessary. Morsi didn't respond to the protests in good faith. If he had even tried to listen to the protesters demands and took them into account, this wouldn't be happening. It's not about siding with the majority. It's about a metric gently caress ton of people out in the streets protesting things they are passionate about, and the President straight up pretending it's not happening.

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