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a bad enough dude posted:Mohamed El Baradei was not an "inspirational leader of the revolution." He was barely an important figure outside of a western media obsession with him. I'm sorry but no. He was and is an inspirational leader of the revolution and it's not just western media trying to paint it as such. The core of the Jan. 25 movement was centered around his activism in the year earlier and he was the inspirational leader for most of the people involved in it, including Wael Ghonim.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:32 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 12:15 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Soooo they are basically going to go with the MB are a bunch of extremist and now is the time to for moderate, inclusive leadership. Makes sense, isn't one of the criticisms from everyone from secular liberals to the salafists is that the Muslim Brotherhood wouldn't listen to anyone who isn't the Muslim Brotherhood.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:36 |
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Volkerball posted:You don't have to apologize. Here's a timeline from Ahram Online. Thank you!
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:37 |
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When is the military's presser due? I thought it was now.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:38 |
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ufarn posted:When is the military's presser due? I thought it was now. It was supposed to start 9 minutes ago if you believed the Ynet sources. Been qwaiting 4 hours now. Sources said "its done and would be shown momentarily" 20 minutes ago.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:41 |
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Ham posted:I'm sorry but no. He was and is an inspirational leader of the revolution and it's not just western media trying to paint it as such. The core of the Jan. 25 movement was centered around his activism in the year earlier and he was the inspirational leader for most of the people involved in it, including Wael Ghonim. Baradei was receiving less than 2% in the polls before he decided to withdraw from the Presidential election. The core of the Revolution was certainly NOT centered around his activism, he wasn't even in Egypt until the 27th. Just because he was a liberal opponent of the government prior to the Revolution and was favored by Western media does not make him the inspiration for it.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:43 |
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ufarn posted:When is the military's presser due? I thought it was now. Egypt time! Bound to run late.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:49 |
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From the Reuters Live Blog http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News quote:REUTERS: Egypt state-run Al-Ahram paper quotes presidency source saying the army told Mursi at 7 pm (17:00 GMT) that he was no longer president.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:49 |
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Ham posted:Apparently these people will join the head of the military for the speech/statement: Interesting role for the Coptic Pope to take. I read an article here less than a month ago, he seemed to be positioning himself as above politics, maybe to lessen the Church's use as a scapegoat by Islamists. I suppose he's getting involved now to get a more Christian-friendly government?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:52 |
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a bad enough dude posted:Baradei was receiving less than 2% in the polls before he decided to withdraw from the Presidential election. The core of the Revolution was certainly NOT centered around his activism, he wasn't even in Egypt until the 27th. Just because he was a liberal opponent of the government prior to the Revolution and was favored by Western media does not make him the inspiration for it. No one expected Baradei to win a presidential race and his withdrawal had more to do with the constitutional referendum that the military/MB passed a few months after the uprising and his refusal to work under that framework. He also faced one year of intense disinformation and personal attacks by the Mubarak regime, and another 6 months of the same from the MB and the military because of his opposition to said constitutional amendment referendum and insistence on "constitution first". You can also add to that that he's noot very charismatic in addition to his stutter. That doesn't alter the fact that the core of the Jan. 25 movement was directly influenced by his open opposition to the Mubarak regime for a year earlier. It also doesn't change the fact that he took the reins of the anti-MB opposition after the MB passed their constitution and started the National Salvation Front with Hamdein Sabbahi and Amr Moussa. This was the main anti-MB group in the last several months and eventually, the "Tamarod" movement sprung out of it and aligned itself alongside it, gathering 22 million votes to remove the president and setting the stage and date for these demonstrations. That same movement has come out and said that they accept representation by Baradei and their roadmap includes him being given the post of Prime Minister to salvage the country.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 19:57 |
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It's on.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:01 |
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The head of the miltiary surrounded by some officers, the sheikh of Azhar, the Pope, a representative of the Salafist movement, Mohamed El Baradei and Yehya al Gamal, a constitutional expert. The Armed Forces could no longer turn it's eyes from the demands of the people. The preident's speech, last night, before the 48 hour time limit was over, did not come up with solutions that would defuse this situation, this is why the armed forces was led to consult with representatives' of national powers without exclusion, and have come up with a roadmap for the situation in Egypt: a- The consitution is temporarily disabled. b- Head of Constitutional Court to become temporary President. c- Has the power to announce consitutional amendments during this period. d- Formation of all-inclusive government. e- Formation of committee to review necessary changes. f- Law for election of parliament. g- Guidelines for media. h- Active inclusion of youth in governance. Ham fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jul 3, 2013 |
# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:04 |
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This translator on Aljazeera English is loving horrible.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:06 |
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http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:06 |
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Where are you guys watching all these press releases and such? Preferably with some form of translation since I don't speak Arabic. Edit: thanks Kurt Cobain
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:07 |
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iCe-CuBe. posted:This translator on Aljazeera English is loving horrible. Better than the feed I'm watching right now, which has no translation whatsoever. Am I correct in assuming the army is saying it's now fully in control?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:08 |
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Ballz posted:Better than the feed I'm watching right now, which has no translation whatsoever.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:09 |
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The preident's speech, last night, before the 48 hour time limit was over, did not come up with solutions that would defuse this situation, this is why the armed forces was led to consult with representatives' of national powers without exclusion, and have come up with a roadmap for the situation in Egypt: a- The consitution is temporarily disabled. b- Head of Constitutional Court to become temporary President. c- Has the power to announce consitutional amendments during this period. d- Formation of all-inclusive government. e- Formation of committee to review necessary changes. f- Law for election of parliament. g- Guidelines for media. h- Active inclusion of youth in governance. i- Formation of Committee seeking national reconciliation. Will not tolerate any threats to the people of Egypt.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:09 |
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I'm really not trying to be contrarian or anything but is there anyone in these factions protesting who are troubled by the idea that the army can just tell the president 'you're not president anymore now we're in charge'? Like, if I was in that crowd I'd be pretty loving terrified of this speech. edit: what does 'guidelines for media' even mean?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:09 |
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm really not trying to be contrarian or anything but is there anyone in these factions protesting who are troubled by the idea that the army can just tell the president 'you're not president anymore now we're in charge'? Like, if I was in that crowd I'd be pretty loving terrified of this speech. No, The crowd asked for the military to please oust Morsi for them so they wouldn't be terrified because it is what they asked for.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:11 |
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm really not trying to be contrarian or anything but is there anyone in these factions protesting who are troubled by the idea that the army can just tell the president 'you're not president anymore now we're in charge'? Like, if I was in that crowd I'd be pretty loving terrified of this speech. If you were in the crowd you'd probably be pretty ecstatic that the military just saved the country from Morsi or something.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:11 |
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Hahaha AJE straight to the pointAJE News Ticker posted:BREAKING NEWS: Egyptian military overthrows president Mohamed Morsi. More soon...
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:13 |
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Largest protest in Egypt's history and gov't would not change to address peoples' demands. What would you rather have happened? This is (relatively) bloodless and new elections scheduled immediately.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:16 |
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So basically the MB is out of government and the head of the constitutional court (who is surprisingly not corrupt) assumes the role of president until elections, correct?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:18 |
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It's actually better than immediate elections. The head of the court is going to become the acting prime minister for a year to 18 months while they establish the new legal framework for the government. Then elections can happen instead of rushing into them like they did with Morsi/Shafiq. This reminds me of the US overthrowing the Articles of Confederation and then creating the Constitution. They learned from the mistakes of their trial run, and now they can do things right.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:20 |
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Volkerball posted:It's actually better than immediate elections. The head of the court is going to become the acting prime minister for a year to 18 months while they establish the new legal framework for the government. Then elections can happen instead of rushing into them like they did with Morsi/Shafiq. This reminds me of the US overthrowing the Articles of Confederation and then creating the Constitution. They learned from the mistakes of their trial run, and now they can do things right. This is actually nothing like what happened with the Articles of Confederation...
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:22 |
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Coptic pope is speaking now
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:22 |
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The precedent of the military being able to tell the leader 'hey you're not in charge anymore' is troubling to me, is what I'm saying. I guess this is just my family upbringing talking but where we're from when the military is able to decide how valid a leader is that's really a good thing. I guess I'm just thinking what stops the army from doing this again?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:22 |
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Tatum Girlparts posted:The precedent of the military being able to tell the leader 'hey you're not in charge anymore' is troubling to me, is what I'm saying. I guess this is just my family upbringing talking but where we're from when the military is able to decide how valid a leader is that's really a good thing. A lack of broad support from the majority of the population?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:23 |
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Dr. Tough posted:This is actually nothing like what happened with the Articles of Confederation... It's similar in that they realized their first try didn't work so they chucked it and tried again. The process of going from one to the other was quite different, however.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:24 |
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Tatum Girlparts posted:The precedent of the military being able to tell the leader 'hey you're not in charge anymore' is troubling to me, is what I'm saying. I guess this is just my family upbringing talking but where we're from when the military is able to decide how valid a leader is that's really a good thing. The people. The people of Egypt told Morsi "You are poo poo stop being president you rear end in a top hat" and he ignored them and continued his poo poo, so they go to the military and ask them to toss out Morsi. So the Precedent is that the people can compel the military to act not the military can act on its own.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:24 |
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Dr. Tough posted:This is actually nothing like what happened with the Articles of Confederation... I'm not taking it any deeper than the initial framework created by the US being insufficient and requiring a replacement relatively soon after. That's fair.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:25 |
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Volkerball posted:It's actually better than immediate elections. The head of the court is going to become the acting prime minister for a year to 18 months while they establish the new legal framework for the government. Then elections can happen instead of rushing into them like they did with Morsi/Shafiq. This reminds me of the US overthrowing the Articles of Confederation and then creating the Constitution. They learned from the mistakes of their trial run, and now they can do things right. And meanwhile during those 18 months the economic situation will continue to deteriorate with no decisive action taken.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:27 |
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AtomikKrab posted:The people. Shouldn't the overthrow of Mubarak be considered the first time this was used, this is just the second time?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:27 |
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I took a shot of whiskey when Mubarak fell two years ago, and that was out of celebration. I just took another one while watching al-Sisi's presser announcing Morsi's overthrow, and I'm not sure if that's out of celebration or trepidation over what can happen in the coming days and weeks.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:28 |
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AtomikKrab posted:The people. How many people is 'the people' though? What happens if after the next election you get all the opposition parties to protest, does the army take a head count in the square before they roll up?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:28 |
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e:^ well, for starters, largest protests in history amount of people Perhaps Egypt should try for a parliamentary system this time around, it makes removing shithead governments at least a tad bit easier.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:29 |
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Manar Mohsen @ManarMohsen 1m Anger & dismay at the #Rabaa. 100s have formed rows, armed with sticks, as though preparing for an attack. Chant, "down with military rule!"
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:31 |
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Amused to Death posted:Perhaps Egypt should try for a parliamentary system this time around, it makes removing shithead governments at least a tad bit easier. How?
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:31 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 12:15 |
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Tatum Girlparts posted:How many people is 'the people' though? What happens if after the next election you get all the opposition parties to protest, does the army take a head count in the square before they roll up? If the President does everything he can to spit in the face of those protesters while offering up no concessions, then it's not really necessary. Morsi didn't respond to the protests in good faith. If he had even tried to listen to the protesters demands and took them into account, this wouldn't be happening. It's not about siding with the majority. It's about a metric gently caress ton of people out in the streets protesting things they are passionate about, and the President straight up pretending it's not happening.
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# ? Jul 3, 2013 20:33 |