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Elite
Oct 30, 2010
Blacksmithing
Put banknotes through a paper shredder to earn an attack bonus for all your active characters according to how much money was sacrificed.
$1 = +1 attack
$27 =+5 attack
$180 = +10 attack
$600 = +15 attack


True Lightning Rune
During your opponent’s turn you may shoot them with a tazer.
If they are incapacitated then declare immediate victory, otherwise continue playing.


True Fire Rune
Cease play. Relocate to the edge of an active volcano, resume play.


True Water Rune
During your opponent’s turn you may shoot them with a supersoaker or spray them with a hose.
Soggy cards have diminished effects, ruined cards cannot be played.


True Wind Rune
Cease play. Relocate to a wind tunnel, resume play.
You are allowed to retrieve stray cards, your opponent is not.


True Earth Rune
During your opponent’s turn you may drench them in fast setting liquid concrete.

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Medrex
Nov 17, 2012

Triangular. Nuclear. Loops.

Elite posted:

Blacksmithing
Put banknotes through a paper shredder to earn an attack bonus for all your active characters according to how much money was sacrificed.
$1 = +1 attack
$27 =+5 attack
$180 = +10 attack
$600 = +15 attack
Note: In nations where destruction of legal tender is a felony, you may instead have this money sent to Konami Headquarters. Other players are permitted to declare your use of this card null if you cannot produce a valid receipt.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

Egbert would be proud of you, you bunch of crazy people.

Brunom1
Sep 5, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.

vilkacis posted:

Egbert would be proud of you, you bunch of crazy people.

Ya know, your avatar gave me an epiphany:

True Salt Rune
This card's player is allowed to bury any card on the field under a pile of salt; the buried card is unable to be used until its owner buys enough salt to reduce the flood of the market.

The salt-buyer is then able to pick the True Salt Rune card and start the cycle anew.

Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jul 4, 2013

cokerpilot
Apr 23, 2010

Battle Brothers! Stop coming to meetings drunk and trying to adopt Tevery Best!

Lord General! Stop standing on the table and making up stupid operation names!

Emperor, why do I put up with these people?
My god this is magnificent

Calax
Oct 5, 2011

Elite posted:

True Earth Rune
During your opponent’s turn you may drench them in fast setting liquid concrete.
I'd have just said "Every turn flip the table, every card you pick up is now yours"

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

You may only flip tables if the Rune is attached to a duck.

Raitzeno
Nov 24, 2007

What? It seemed like
a good idea at the time.

Sergeant Joe
Remove a True Rune from play, then flip the table. At the end of your next turn, shuffle all cards into their owners' decks and restart the game. Take a video of the new game and record commentary over it.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
Hugo Chapter 2.1 - You're So Pushy!



Wow, remember when we were Hugo, and his best friend was murdered and his village burned to the ground?

Sort of a dismal situation to start this next chapter, huh?



We start off on the map this time, actually. You might recall that Joe told Hugo that they should head to the Duck Village to collect themselves and see if they could hear anything about where the surviving Karayans went.



We pass through the Plains Amur on the way.



Camera, what are you doing?



:stare:

So, some time between the last chapter and this one, Hugo learned how to attack multiple times in one turn. What this means is that Hugo can now hit you with both a griffon and his knife in the same turn.

He also picked up the Continual Attack skill.



Nothing else interesting happens, so let's head into the village.



The camera pans around the scenery.



I love Duck Village. :allears:







More ducks with faces!! :swoon:



Wait, what?

: "?"

: "I've just arrived and already duty calls."

: "Please! You're our best hope. No time for delays. Come quickly!"



The two run off.



That sure looks like a lady and some ducks, but we've got something else important to do first.



Yesss.



:getin:

Okay. Rubber duck in hand, let's go see what the hubbub is all about.



: "I'll ask once more, but don't make me ask again! Where is the Flame Champion? Will one of you answer me?!"

Oh, hey. The Flame Champion. You lovely folks named that guy, remember? Well, he's finally coming up. :toot:

The ducks all look at each other quizzically.

: "How should we know?"



: "You must know something. Yet for some reason you refuse to tell. Why are you doing this?"

: "We can't tell what we don't know!"

: "You just won't cooperate, will you?"

The young woman shakes her head angrily.



Yeah, the ducks don't even know.



: "Who is this 'Flame Champion'? Do you know, Sergeant?"

: "Hmpf! The things they don't teach kids these days!"





She stomps hard enough to make the screen shake, and scares off all the ducks, before trotting over to Hugo giddily.



: "Who's asking? Tell us who YOU are!"



Gustav was a character in Suikoden II. He was a pretty cool guy. Tinto is South of the Grasslands, and is a small but independent nation that is largely mercantile in nature.

Lilly is also a recurring character from Suikoden II, wherein she was almost married to and murdered by a creepy old vampire guy. He'll come up in Suikogaiden, as an aside. And yes, she was like 6 when this all happened.

: "Now, your turn. Your name?"



: " 'Karaya Clan'? Never heard of it."

: "............"

: "Anyway, Hugo. I have questions for you."





She's interrupted by two men, who rush over.

: "Just when I was getting somewhere..."



Reed and Samus (the other one is Samus) are probably the two most forgettable characters in this game. Not because I forget they exist, mind you, but because I can never remember which is which.



: "Our options are limited here."

Considering the entire village is on a lake, I'd certainly say so!







Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum both look at each other with the fear of death in their eyes.



Here it comes...



: "............"

: "You two!"

: "Fine, let's see. Which way is it? This way? Ah, this way."

She stomps past them, look around for a sign, and then stomps off.

: "Milady, wait!"

Her two mooks follow.



: "............"

Hrm.



: "Whew.... Now I'm getting hungry...."

: "The situation is getting tense around the Lizard Clan's village as well. I'm... worried."

So...



We're supposed to follow her, I guess?



Well, here we go.



: "Please understand, milady."

: "Please!"

Those poor guys.



: "Oh, you. What is it? Ah, you want to finish that talk of ours."

We could say no, but...

: "Okay..."





: "............"



Apparently Lilly was convinced that, if she wanted privacy, then maybe they should go back to her inn room.

: "Milady, this building is not our lodging. Ours is farther removed... is that not more acceptable?"

: "How far 'removed'? As far as a servant's quarters? How... imaginative of you to think I would prefer such accommodations!"





Well, she gives up very little fight, it turns out, as they walk to the building anyway.



Joe and Hugo exchange a look that seems to say "What are we doing here, man?" With a shrug, they follow as well.



: "Now then. What do you want to discuss?"

: "You wanted to talk about the Flame Champion."

She nods.

: "I most certainly do! If yo know of the Flame Champion's whereabouts, you'll receive just compensation..."

: " 'The Flame Champion'? The hero our grandfathers spoke of? Didn't expect such a topic from the likes of you..."

: "Yes, I speak of the Flame Champion, and of the Fire Bringer he led. They are very much alive, it seems."

It always bothered me that the group was called "Fire Bringer" rather than "Fire Bringers."



: "Still alive? The Flame Champion? But... your mathematics have surely failed you."



Asking what I'm sure you would all like to know, yes?

: "Hmm? Oh, that's right, few your age would know. The Flame Champion is a hero from over 50 years ago who smashed the Harmonian forces invading Grassland at that time."

: "Harmonian forces?"

: "Yes. He led the Fire Bringer against the enemy. Our clan was the first Grassland clan to become allies of the Fire Bringer."

Can you imagine? The Ducks were the first to jump into a war!

We'll be learning more about the Fire Bringer War a little later in this chapter, as well as more and more as the game goes. The description Joe has given is good enough for now.

: "Sounds to me like a real hero. Even a great hero."

: "He truly was. Then, after the Harmonian war, he vanished without a trace. This was all so long ago. If he were still alive today, he wouldn't look like much of a warrior."

Joe, why aren't you using the actual name of the war!



: "Why is that?"

: "It all started when bandits attacked one of our caravans. One of those bandits turned out to be none other than one of the Fire Bringer. The traders who were robbed returned to Tinto speaking of how one of the bandits resembled the Flame Champion. Over and over, our caravans fell prey to these thieves. Eventually we learned that the leader of those bandits was called 'Flame Champion' by his own men. And that is obviously my motivation for coming here."



: "That's right! Your personal adventures will land you in trouble with our authorities again."



: "............"

: "What cowards?"

She ignores the question.

: "Moving right along, since no further information can be had here, I've decided to go to the Lizard Clan. I've heard of attacks there too. But Reed and Samus are useless at navigating Grassland. It took them ages just to get us here!"



: "Naturally, I'm prepared to pay for your time. About... 4000 potch?"

: "How about it, Sergeant?"

: "Well... I can't see how staying here does anyone any good. If attacks have spread to the Lizard Clan, we may as well investigate."



: "All right."

: "Very good! Now let's work out the details."



: "Grumble all you like, but this is our job."

Poor, poor bastards.

: "I assume you know of the Lizard Clan's travel routes?"

: "They use underground passes stretching who knows how far. That method of travel has long been one of their biggest strengths."

: "Our scouts concur. A major junction in their network seems to be a point under the western ruins. Take me there. Then introduce me to the Lizard Clan upon your arrival. I'll give you 2000 potch now plus 2000 when we reach the Lizard Clan safely. Agreed?"

: "Agreed."



Yeah, we actually do get paid money! How cool is that?

: "These 'attacks' involving the Lizard Clan could well be related to what we know."

What do we know? That the Zexens attacked Karaya?







: "We've done nothing but hurry about for days, then scurry about like ants after arriving. May we not stop for a night to rest properly?"



: "Well? Weren't you?"

: "............"

: "Let us do as she wants, Samus. It is simpler that way."

: "?"



And with that, the Tinto trio join our party!

: "We'll leave immediately!"









: "............"

:allears:

So, let's look at our new friends.



Lilly is actually... not bad. She won't hit for that much, but she's fairly reliable. Her Sword of Magic skill will give her a bit of a boost with her Sword of Rage rune, for what that's worth. (Not much.)





Frick and Frack here are pretty unexciting. Theoretically, Samus is supposed to be a mage-y type, but their stats are pretty even, and the two of them are equally terrible. We also don't have much to work with for them, as we don't get a bujutsu teacher until pretty late in the chapter. Alas.





We do have access to a tutor, though, so I take a moment to boost up Joe's Water Magic and Hugo's Wind Magic. I'll leave the trio's skills alone for now.

As for new dialogue...





There's not much going on.



So let's head towards those Lizard tunnels!



The map opens up some new areas, though the one we're headed to is the Ancient Highway due west. For some reason, the map continues all the way to Vinay, which is silly because, as Hugo, you can't actually get through Brass Castle. :iiam: West of the Highway is the Great Hollow, which will be our eventual destination.



If this place looks familiar to you, it's because we saw it briefly in Geddoe's chapter, while chasing that mysterious sorceress.



: "I can't promise you'll find what you seek."

Lilly walks up to investigate, and Joe humorously takes a few steps backwards.









: "Milady!"

: "Milady! Are you certain about this?"

: "Impersonating statues, are you? How about earning your keep!"

: "We didn't want to interrupt you! Here we come, milady!"



: "Hugo, what do you make of them?"







Hugo waits for the three of them to run off before replying.



: "They don't act like enemies. But I'm not sure of their plans."



: "Kuuee!"



Suddenly, the suspiciously door-shaped rock slides away!



: "I told you. Sergeant, Hugo!"

: "She... she found it!"

: "At least we had a few moments of rest."

The group descends into the tunnel.



: "Alright, we're rested. Let's move on."

I imagine they "rested" for all of ten seconds. I feel bad for Herp and Derp in the back there.



Welcome to the Ancient Highway. For real this time. As a dungeon it is pretty boring, consisting of straight corridors and that's basically it, but at the same time, it's got some nice atmosphere to it.



Also, you can go in front of the pillars. :toot:

As for enemies?



We've got spiders...



Soul slugs...



And this new enemy, the Terror Knight. Terror Knights are interesting in that they hit like trucks, but are about as durable as a blade bunny. So long as the knights don't guard or parry, anyone can take them down in a single hit.



Their parries hurt, though.



I just like this screen.

Lilly is pretty consistently hitting in the 110 - 120s, with Bert and Ernie doing a little bit better, but also missing a lot more often.



The second area in the dungeon is pretty much the same as the first, sadly. There's a bit of a dip in the floor (which goes back up on the other side of the hall), and some of the pillars are broken, but otherwise, it's just a longer version of the first room.



However, the area is really good for leveling, so I took a few moments to get their levels up into the 30s before moving to the middle part of the dungeon.



See, this is where the area gets a little interesting. The hallways branches off to the north and west. West will take us to the Great Hollow.



: "The passage widens ahead."

Man, check out those runes on the walls.





Hugo walks further in to investigate, but stops when he gets to that rock.



: "Someone else is here!"

Hugo beckons the rest of the group in a hushed voice, and Lilly and Joe rush over.





Reed and Samus follow.



Fubar helps.



Hmmm. We've seen most of those people before, but... What are they looking at so intently? At first, it seems like a weird design on the wall, but... it seems more like a door, actually.



: "Thanks to Cyndar's ancient technique... or shall we call it their magic. Most impressive."

Who the gently caress are the Cyndar???

So, this is a fun translation error that is only in the third game. In all other games, the group is translated as Sindar. I don't know how they let this one slide in translation, I really don't.

The Sindar were a mysterious group of magical nomads who lived long ago in the world of Suiko. They left ruins just about everywhere in the world, but no one knows what exactly happened to them. Their leader possessed a True Rune called the Rune of Change, which cursed the entire people and prevented them from settling down. Aside from that, not much is known.

: "Don't give up, even if you risk destroying it."



: "What do you make of that?"



:allears:

Hugo immediately makes a face like :(

: "Milady! I believe it was you who said to keep silent."

: "I know what I said."

: "What makes you think they're evil?"



: "What about him?"





: "............"



: "This shouldn't be taking so long. Let's just take what we need and go."

: "That will get us nothing but chaos. That is not what we want."

: "Chaos would suit me just fine."



: "?"

: "Sarah, what's the matter?"

: "Nothing."







Poor Hugo.

: "Why don't we just decide what we're going to do. We can't hide here forever."

: "He's right."

: "Let's talk to them. It's the best way to find out who they really are."

: "Sounds reasonable to me."

: "We already know what they 'are.' "

: "And that is?"









: "Stop! How dare you walk away before I'm finished speaking!"



Lilly rushes off after them.



: "We shouldn't push our luck. It could result in diminishing returns."

: "Who would have thought it would take this long?"

: "Very well, then..."





: "What are you doing?"

: "You don't look like simple travelers. You're not from the Grasslands, are you?"

: "I doubt if you are, either. Your little band looks out of place here, too."

Whatever, we've got some Grasslanders!

The man pauses as he analyzes our group.



: "How would you know that?!"

: "The honor is all mine. Pity I don't have the time to get acquainted."



Sarah starts magic-ing the ground on cue.





: "We've stalled long enough. Say goodbye..."

: "I am ready."

: "I'd like to add another element of style to our exit. It won't take but a moment."

Oh. That sounds, uh.

Bad.

: "See that it doesn't."

: "But of course."

:ohdear:



The rest of the group warps away.

: "Stop right there!"





Oh boy...





WELL.

Next time, we fight for our lives!!

yokaiy fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 5, 2013

Verbose
Apr 23, 2006

Mike believed in the shooting star, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then,but that's no matter. Tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... and then one fine morning-
So we beat on, subs against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
Man, I haven't heard anyone say Frick and Frack since my grandmother.

Also I really like THE MYSTERIOUS MAN IN BLACK WHOSE IDENTITY IS A TOTAL MYSTERY's design in this game. Kinda looks like Bob Fossey. Or David Bowie. David Bowie wearing Fossey's clothes.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Verbose posted:

Man, I haven't heard anyone say Frick and Frack since my grandmother.

Also I really like THE MYSTERIOUS MAN IN BLACK WHOSE IDENTITY IS A TOTAL MYSTERY's design in this game. Kinda looks like Bob Fossey. Or David Bowie. David Bowie wearing Fossey's clothes.

The game's actually a Labyrinth video game that got rebranded.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


I can't quite figure out why, but something in that guy's face makes me say that if he doesn't turn out to be related to Geddoe I will flip a table.

I've got the table right here and everything.

EDIT: or maybe Jacques, now that I think of it. Not amending things though.

Bruceski fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jul 5, 2013

cokerpilot
Apr 23, 2010

Battle Brothers! Stop coming to meetings drunk and trying to adopt Tevery Best!

Lord General! Stop standing on the table and making up stupid operation names!

Emperor, why do I put up with these people?
I noticed the stormcommander, knight, and guard titles after the characters names in the party screen what do those mean?

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Verbose posted:

Man, I haven't heard anyone say Frick and Frack since my grandmother.

Also I really like THE MYSTERIOUS MAN IN BLACK WHOSE IDENTITY IS A TOTAL MYSTERY's design in this game. Kinda looks like Bob Fossey. Or David Bowie. David Bowie wearing Fossey's clothes.

Glad I can remind you of your grandmother, then? I think the last time I heard it was from my track coach in highshool. I've been pretty fond of it, though, because it's funny-sounding.

Bruceski posted:

I can't quite figure out why, but something in that guy's face makes me say that if he doesn't turn out to be related to Geddoe I will flip a table.

I've got the table right here and everything.

EDIT: or maybe Jacques, now that I think of it. Not amending things though.

So there will only be a flipped table in the case of him not being related to Geddoe?

Honestly, I think this thread needs more table flips. You should provide a video or gif if it happens. :haw:

cokerpilot posted:

I noticed the stormcommander, knight, and guard titles after the characters names in the party screen what do those mean?

It's their title, which indicates sort of what kind of fighter they are supposed to be. Like, Samus has a Wind Rune so he's a Storm Commander. I don't think it really does much of anything and if it does, I haven't noticed.

There's a way to give people different titles later in the game, which can have some effect on their skill levels, but that won't be for a while. It's also one of those things I've never actually done, so that'll be fun.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

yokaiy posted:

So there will only be a flipped table in the case of him not being related to Geddoe?

Honestly, I think this thread needs more table flips. You should provide a video or gif if it happens. :haw:

If it happens, there will be photo evidence. It's only fair. I can't go "whelp guys I flipped that there table pretty good."

And yup, if he's related to Jacques I'll compliment them on putting enough hints into the features (and enough distinction between characters despite the limited graphics) but table will still be flipped.

Bufuman
Jun 15, 2013

Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.

yokaiy posted:

So, some time between the last chapter and this one, Hugo learned the skill Continual Attack. It's pretty self-explanatory, but that doesn't make it any less awesome. What it means is that Hugo can now hit you with both a griffon and his knife in the same turn.

Actually, I think the effect of Continual Attack is to let you move on to another enemy if you kill your current target and still have attacks remaining. Hugo tacking on the knife hit is just because his Swing speed got high enough. Or Fubar's. Or both combined. I don't know the Riding mechanics too well.

So, Lilly! Lilly is awesome. But please tell me I'm not the only one that thought she was just wearing that purple shirt and nothing else for the longest time. It wasn't until I saw her character art that I realized she was wearing a tan bodysuit under it.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Bufuman posted:

Actually, I think the effect of Continual Attack is to let you move on to another enemy if you kill your current target and still have attacks remaining. Hugo tacking on the knife hit is just because his Swing speed got high enough. Or Fubar's. Or both combined. I don't know the Riding mechanics too well.

So, Lilly! Lilly is awesome. But please tell me I'm not the only one that thought she was just wearing that purple shirt and nothing else for the longest time. It wasn't until I saw her character art that I realized she was wearing a tan bodysuit under it.

Am I an idiot? All signs point to "maybe!"

So I looked it up just now to make sure, and Continual Attack lets you perform multiple actions, basically. So, for example, you could attack an enemy for two attack cycles instead of just one, or you could move on to a second enemy. At this point, I'm not sure if Hugo's double-attack is because of his Swing skill or his Continual Attack skill, as it could be either. His swing is sort of lovely, and he wasn't doing that last chapter (nor have I increased his swing since last chapter), so I was inclined to believe it was his CA, but his CA is even shittier soooo :iiam:. I appreciate it no matter what it is.

Skills are confusing.

Lilly is indeed awesome, and I will have words about her, probably. I dunno, my analyses so far have been mostly in design rather than personality, and I appreciate both aspects when it comes to her.

On a completely unrelated note, all the card descriptions are now on the OP. :allears:

I bet you I'm going to run out of room on there eventually.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


There's a crease in her knee. I tend to assume people are wearing pants until proven otherwise.

Bufuman
Jun 15, 2013

Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.

Bruceski posted:

There's a crease in her knee. I tend to assume people are wearing pants until proven otherwise.

I never said I was very observant. :sweatdrop:

Image21
Feb 15, 2012
Oh god this boss fight.
I know you can actually win most of the optional fights but this one kicked my rear end. Please win.

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...
Hugo picked up a second swing because you gained levels. Basically Suikoden III divides turns into 100 'ticks'. What tick you act on with a physical is basically your weapon weight, modified by your speed, then reduced a flat percentage by your Swing score. Once you attack, the game will calculate this repeatedly until you go over 100. So what happened is Hugo's speed is high enough to reduce his act below 50 ticks, meaning he's calculated to get another attack in.
This is why, generally speaking, any non-axe physical attacker should prioritize Swing above all other skills. Once you get over about level 25 you start seeing returns almost immediately, which for Chris and Geddoe is when you start the game and for Hugo is here.

Titles are based on what sort of skills you have. 'Commander', as I recall, comes from having some combination of Swing, Damage, and Armor Protect. Learning a magic skill by itself will give you [X] Mage. When you combine physical skills with magic, you get [X] Commander. I don't remember particulars I'm afraid, it's usually not THAT indicative of what the character's actually doing.

It's mostly cosmetic. There are gameplay implications, but only way the hell down the line, and pretty limited at that.

So the Man in Black here, in this specific battle, is arguably the hardest fight in the game. Unfortunately, this is due in part to factors beyond the player's control; the Tinto trio are not mages (Example: Samus' wind Rune? His max Wind grade is a C. Which he either starts with or not far from it.) Being unable to access a bujutsu teacher between getting them and fighting this boss means they essentially are here to die while Hugo and Sgt. Joe try to whittle him down. But we'll see that in some detail I suspect.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

Ah yes! POUND that FILTHY DEVIL into the GROUND! OBLITERATE the SMUG GRIN on his SMUG FACE! FAILURE is NOT an OPTION! :byodood:

Seed and Camus are pretty forgettable, but I always liked Lily. She's funny, and she has a cool hat! What more could you possibly want? (Well okay I guess the fact that she gets pretty good once she gets her skills up probably helps.)

cdyoung
Mar 2, 2012
Of all the things I wish that had happen in the manga that happened in the game's backstory was how Chris and Lilly first met. I seriously wanted to see an utterly trashed ball room and those two giggling like little children in the center of the carnage. Instead of what we got. :/

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

yokaiy posted:

Am I an idiot? All signs point to "maybe!"

...His swing is sort of lovely...

FIX THIS AT ONCE. :colbert: As CmdrKing said, Swing is absolutely THE best skill for all non-axe physical attackers. More hits mean more damage mean more dead enemies. Also I believe Hugo is one of a few people in the game who can get very, very, VERY good at Swing. (We've already met one of the other folks who should immediately have their Swing boosted as high and fast as possible.)

cdyoung posted:

Of all the things I wish that had happen in the manga that happened in the game's backstory was how Chris and Lilly first met. I seriously wanted to see an utterly trashed ball room and those two giggling like little children in the center of the carnage. Instead of what we got. :/

:allears: I hope this gets posted at some point, it sounds hilarious!

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
Swing: Pretty much one of the most important skills in this game for goddamn near everybody.

Unoriginal One
Aug 5, 2008
If you had access to a Bujustu teacher earlier in the chapter, this guy would be cake. You don't though, so have fun~

If memory serves; a miss or a parry will normally stop an attack string cold, regardless of how many swings the attacker has left. What Continual Attack does is give you a chance to keep going in spite of that, in addition to being able to move on to another target with the remainder of your string if your current target dies. Not vital, but handy.

Looking up skills...

Lilly picks up Heavy Damage at A and Parry at B+. Better than what some folks get, but nothing great.

Samus gets Damage at A and Fighting Spirit at B. Reed picks up Freeze at B+. Utterly, utterly forgettable.

Unoriginal One fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 5, 2013

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Image21 posted:

Oh god this boss fight.
I know you can actually win most of the optional fights but this one kicked my rear end. Please win.

Actually, my first playthrough ever, I kicked this guys rear end. Hugo and Fubar were the only ones left, and had enough HP to fall over if he so much as sneezed at them, but then he kept getting his chanting stopped for like 4 turns in a row and then went down and it was glorious. I threw my hands up in the air and high-fived all nearby persons.

CmdrKing posted:

Hugo picked up a second swing because you gained levels. Basically Suikoden III divides turns into 100 'ticks'. What tick you act on with a physical is basically your weapon weight, modified by your speed, then reduced a flat percentage by your Swing score. Once you attack, the game will calculate this repeatedly until you go over 100. So what happened is Hugo's speed is high enough to reduce his act below 50 ticks, meaning he's calculated to get another attack in.
This is why, generally speaking, any non-axe physical attacker should prioritize Swing above all other skills. Once you get over about level 25 you start seeing returns almost immediately, which for Chris and Geddoe is when you start the game and for Hugo is here.

Titles are based on what sort of skills you have. 'Commander', as I recall, comes from having some combination of Swing, Damage, and Armor Protect. Learning a magic skill by itself will give you [X] Mage. When you combine physical skills with magic, you get [X] Commander. I don't remember particulars I'm afraid, it's usually not THAT indicative of what the character's actually doing.

It's mostly cosmetic. There are gameplay implications, but only way the hell down the line, and pretty limited at that.

So the Man in Black here, in this specific battle, is arguably the hardest fight in the game. Unfortunately, this is due in part to factors beyond the player's control; the Tinto trio are not mages (Example: Samus' wind Rune? His max Wind grade is a C. Which he either starts with or not far from it.) Being unable to access a bujutsu teacher between getting them and fighting this boss means they essentially are here to die while Hugo and Sgt. Joe try to whittle him down. But we'll see that in some detail I suspect.

Hooray mechanics explanations! I'll edit the update a little later and fix my mistake, thanks a bunch. :)

I'd argue that the fight with Borus in Geddoe's chapter is harder, but also a lot easier to avoid. You can't increase skills for the MiB fight, but you can still grind as much as you want before you fight him, whereas you don't get that opportunity with Borus. I'd also argue that the final boss(es) are harder, but that's a billion years from now anyway.

vilkacis posted:

Ah yes! POUND that FILTHY DEVIL into the GROUND! OBLITERATE the SMUG GRIN on his SMUG FACE! FAILURE is NOT an OPTION! :byodood:

Seed and Camus are pretty forgettable, but I always liked Lily. She's funny, and she has a cool hat! What more could you possibly want? (Well okay I guess the fact that she gets pretty good once she gets her skills up probably helps.)

I'll be punching him in his untrustworthy FACE, yes.

Yeah, Lilly is cool. Hansel and Gretel not so much. Lilly and Joe also play off of each other well, in that they are both strong-willed sassy people, so their interactions are pretty great.

Podima posted:

FIX THIS AT ONCE. :colbert: As CmdrKing said, Swing is absolutely THE best skill for all non-axe physical attackers. More hits mean more damage mean more dead enemies. Also I believe Hugo is one of a few people in the game who can get very, very, VERY good at Swing. (We've already met one of the other folks who should immediately have their Swing boosted as high and fast as possible.)

Don't worry, I'll fix it as soon as I can! That'll just be... after this boss battle. :qq: Since we can't actually do poo poo in Brass Castle because they banned Grasslanders and there's no bujutsu teacher in Duck Village, we're on our own until we power through to the Great Hollow.

Apple Syrup
Jan 21, 2012

Every story is merely a matter of perspective.

One event seems like something to one person while it is seen as something different by another.
Aww, you skipped over one of the best moments/choice (in my opinion) of this game.

Then again, I haven't been able to keep tabs as often as I'd like.

Oh well, no biggie, though I assume we'll be seeing it in a separate bit, right? ^_~

...CHARGE!

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Apple Syrup posted:

Aww, you skipped over one of the best moments/choice (in my opinion) of this game.

Then again, I haven't been able to keep tabs as often as I'd like.

Oh well, no biggie, though I assume we'll be seeing it in a separate bit, right? ^_~

...CHARGE!

Yup, I'll be showing it off, no worries. I'll be posting it as an interlude like I've been doing for the good alternate dialogue choices, but I figured it'd be better to post after this scene is entirely over, so it'll be after I post the next update.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Lily would be really obnoxious if she wasn't so sincere in her enthusiasm.

mageofthesands
Jan 2, 2013
Lilly has the best hat in all of Suiko. Better than Egbert's and Killey's, even.

Also, she really should get a S rank in Sword Magic.

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...
Sword of Magic is probably the least utilized skill in the game. There's one S rank user (who has no business using it), two A ranks (one of whom does not have an open rune slot), and then a bunch of Bs and B+es. With pretty much anything less than an A, you're better served using a Fury Rune as your secondary physical booster. It's very strange, Sword of Magic seems intended to be some sort of child of Black Sword (just based on the Rune designs), yet they don't put much thought into making it an interesting option so what's the point? It's like the developers just lost interest in the idea after taking the time to put it in the game.

Bufuman
Jun 15, 2013

Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.
At the very least, they got their act together and made it good for Suikoden 5.

They just also added in stuff that's even MORE broken alongside it, so it's still not worth using very often.

cdyoung
Mar 2, 2012

Podima posted:

:allears: I hope this gets posted at some point, it sounds hilarious!

You only learn this in a detective research on Lilly, and the manga's take on the scene is a "slap slap indigent bitch, rescued by Percy" girly bullshit. :/

Verant
Oct 20, 2012

Go on an adventure ordained by fate?
-->Okay.
-->Eh.

mageofthesands posted:

Lilly has the best hat in all of Suiko. Better than Egbert's and Killey's, even.

Whoa there, her hat is nice, but the best of them all? Though, I will give you that it's better than Reinbach's.

Ahhh, Man in Black. Nasty fight for your party as it is right now, just like Rowd in II. But at least now you get trounced with style! And ludicrous amounts of bloodthirst.

So, are you planning on winning the fight or throwing it to get the extra fight in the special chapter?

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

mageofthesands posted:

Lilly has the best hat in all of Suiko. Better than Egbert's and Killey's, even.

Also, she really should get a S rank in Sword Magic.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Verant posted:

Whoa there, her hat is nice, but the best of them all? Though, I will give you that it's better than Reinbach's.

Ahhh, Man in Black. Nasty fight for your party as it is right now, just like Rowd in II. But at least now you get trounced with style! And ludicrous amounts of bloodthirst.

So, are you planning on winning the fight or throwing it to get the extra fight in the special chapter?

I'm going to win all winable fights now rather than then, so that I can hopefully fit the special chapter into a single update at the end. Also, the teams need the experience now, not later.


Well, we haven't seen this person yet, but I'm gonna let that slide because you can hardly see them under all that swag anyway. Also, they do indeed have one of the more excellent hats in the series. That, and I am highly entertained. :haw:

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 24, 2008

SICK LOOT!
Reed is the one with the really great chin, it's not that hard.

Bufuman
Jun 15, 2013

Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.
Reed is also rockin' the Kazuma Kuwabara hairdo.

Yes, I realize it's probably more common than that, but really, defaulting to Yu Yu Hakusho for a reference is NEVER a bad idea.

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Kinu Nishimura
Apr 24, 2008

SICK LOOT!
Kuwabara had a first name?!

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