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tuyop posted:What's the consensus on the HP Envy 14? Costco has it on for $500 bux You could get a Samsung Chromebook. It would do what you'd do when jonesing for a computer, but at least it would be yours and you'd be able to do 99% of what computers do, which is browse the web.
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Jul 5, 2013 15:06
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I didn't read the entire 26 page thread, but it seems to me that an option that's been overlooked for a cheap/awesome laptop is to buy an off-lease Thinkpad or Latitude for $250-$300, pimp it out with an SSD, and replace any broken parts using parts warehouses on ebay. Thinkpads and Latitudes are sturdy and easy to repair. A 2-3 year old off-lease Thinkpad or Latitude is just getting broken in really. The specs will be a few years out of date, but for what most people do with laptops (web surfing mostly), it shouldn't matter. This is an easy way to get a great laptop for under $500 if you're tech saavy and don't mind getting your hands dirty. I've always done this. Buying new laptops is a fool's errand and a huge waste of money. And if you want to play games or do something intensive, build a desktop. Laptops suck for that stuff. You guys keeps saying spend $600+ or go home, or telling people to get useless crap like chromebooks if they're on a tight budget. For those people, an off-lease business notebook will be the best option. To use a car analogy, this is kind of like a car shopper who's on a tight budget buying a Mercedes or BMW that's a few years old instead of getting a Kia. Dick Fagballzson fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 15:24
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Cmdrmonkey posted:I didn't read the entire 26 page thread, but it seems to me that an option that's been overlooked for a cheap/awesome laptop is to buy an off-lease Thinkpad or Latitude for $250-$300, pimp it out with an SSD, and replace any broken parts using parts warehouses on ebay. Thinkpads and Latitudes are sturdy and easy to repair. A 2-3 year old off-lease Thinkpad or Latitude is just getting broken in really. The specs will be a few years out of date, but for what most people do with laptops (web surfing mostly), it shouldn't matter. This is an easy way to get a great laptop for under $500 if you're tech saavy and don't mind getting your hands dirty. I've always done this. Buying new laptops is a fool's errand and a huge waste of money. And if you want to play games or do something intensive, build a desktop. Laptops suck for that stuff. Honestly, "last year's model" markdown prices are a better deal (and often more viable) than "pimping out" an "off-lease" ThinkPad about to be EOL'd by Lenovo. You'd be hard pressed, unfortunately, to convince people out of "gaming" as well. Some people have the special interest for it; unfortunately, they have to make a choice from understandably frivolous and often terrible options, be it gaming rig or wall-tethered, squad portable Alienware. Chromebooks aren't useless, either. I installed ChromeOS on my x220 and used it for a week, and it covered everything up until I needed to use Paraview. I do agree, though, that paying $640 for a pretty wonky Ideapad isn't a good option for most people. If you need a laptop for cheap, look at used/off-lease/outlet ThinkPads and MacBooks.
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Jul 5, 2013 15:47
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sports posted:You could get a Samsung Chromebook. It would do what you'd do when jonesing for a computer, but at least it would be yours and you'd be able to do 25% of what computers do, which is browse the web.
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Jul 5, 2013 16:11
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The off lease idea isn't a bad idea if you will never ever install Steam on it. A $200 R61 with $100 SSD and new $40 battery isn't a bad deal if you're a student. That's $350 for a six year old laptop. HD4000 and forward is a generational leap ahead of what existed before in the integrated graphics department, in terms of useful lifespan an Ivy Bridge (and now Haswell) laptop will have a useful lifespan of 4 years or so. I fully expect my x230 to last me until 2016. As pointed out, $500 for a refurb x230 is a pretty regular (if not screaming) deal if you're willing to put up with Lenovo's outlet site. A T410 can be found on ebay for pretty cheap ($300 shipped in most cases) and has a "modern" first gen i5 that Windows 8 supports with it's native Hypervisor VM technology. My buddy recently replaced his T400 with another T400 for $250 off of ebay and it's his primary work machine. It has a fancy nvidia chip in it though.
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Jul 5, 2013 16:28
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I'd say two big caveats with the off-lease + SSD idea are to make sure whatever you get has at least SATA II and uses DDR3. Some of the Core 2 Duo based Thinkpads only had SATA 1.5, and you won't see as big of an improvement with the SSD with the older interface. Also, DDR2 is really expensive. If you plan to upgrade the RAM, DDR2 will be a problem. So something like a T400 or T410 would be fine, but you would probably want to avoid the T61 and older. Dick Fagballzson fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 16:59
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Am I imagining things, or are the T430 laptops on the Lenovo outlet pretty bad deals? I took a look at it to see what they were offering for a T430 with a 1600x900 resolution, and I can get one with comparable specs up here in Canada for cheaper.
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Jul 5, 2013 18:33
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So my brother is going to college, he wants a laptop, and seems dead set on something bigger than 13", though I seemed to have talked him out out 17". Thoughts on an HP Envy 15" 15t-j000, which comes with Haswell i7? I couldn't find any reviews, probably because it is so new, but previous Envys seem to do pretty well in reviews. http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/ho...ion-Notebook-PC I was going to advised him to get the following upgrades for a total of $784: 1080p Screen, Bluetooth, 24GB SSD Cache Drive, Backlit Keyboard The upgrades I don't know about are the processor and GPU. I don't even know how the 4702MQ differs from the 4700MQ. Then there is GT740M vs Intel HD4600. I assume they would do GPU switching with the discrete card, but it doesn't mention it.
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Jul 5, 2013 18:51
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Cmdrmonkey posted:I'd say two big caveats with the off-lease + SSD idea are to make sure whatever you get has at least SATA II and uses DDR3. Some of the Core 2 Duo based Thinkpads only had SATA 1.5, and you won't see as big of an improvement with the SSD with the older interface. Also, DDR2 is really expensive. If you plan to upgrade the RAM, DDR2 will be a problem. Buying an off-lease laptop only makes sense if it was treated absurdly well. In reality, what you're getting is an abused laptop issued to a cubicle monkey who couldn't give less of a poo poo about what happened to it. Thinkpads are tough, but deliberate mistreatment isn't easy to safeguard against. Expect excessive wear and tear, odd quirks that you can't explain that come from said wear and tear, poo poo battery life, and other fun things that imaginative lessees decided to try. For $250-$300 more, you can buy a Lenovo refurb and avoid literally all of these. The only reason to buy an off-lease is if you desperately need a laptop and absolutely cannot find another few hundred dollars. modig posted:So my brother is going to college, he wants a laptop, and seems dead set on something bigger than 13", though I seemed to have talked him out out 17". What does he want to do with it? Also, beat him until he understands that 13" is the  masterrace. It's big enough for regular use but small enough to be portable and nice to carry around. Try and get him to look at a 13" 2013 MBA, especially if your local Best Buy carries them. Buy one, try it for a few days, keep or return it.
InstantInfidel fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 19:02
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I EVER SPENT
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Still wondering if anyone here has yet to buy any of razer's systems... Can the screen on the blade 14" be replaced/upgraded? Can the HD be upgraded? My guess says the screen can but the HD cannot although I have read that the HD on the edge (the tablet) can be upgraded. I bought my Dell XPS 15" about 2 years ago and have been incredibly happy with the age curve that it has had. GT 435M with 2gb, i7 CPU, and 512gb HD 15.6" screen. The biggest issue I've had is battery life and weight. Both of which are only minor issues for me rather than deal breakers. Finding something that is thinner/lighter but willing to pay up to 2k for to me seems like a tradeoff I am willing to make. I must admit I am incredibly nervous about making any purchase that does not allow me to test the product/return it and I don't think that is possible with Razer products (please let me know if you know otherwise). Anyway if anyone knows of someone who owns the product that I can ask them questions about their experience with it I would appreciate that, barring that if you guys know of anything coming out before september that I should keep an eye on I don't mind waiting until end of August to make a purchase.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:06
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SoggyGravy posted:Still wondering if anyone here has yet to buy any of razer's systems... Can the screen on the blade 14" be replaced/upgraded? Can the HD be upgraded? My guess says the screen can but the HD cannot although I have read that the HD on the edge (the tablet) can be upgraded. There is a disassembly guide on the notebook review forums. It's main focus is replacing the msata ssd but you can see the hard drive right there and it is hooked into what looks like a standard laptop sata port and should be easy to remove after you get the back cover off. I don't know about the screen.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:20
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InstantInfidel posted:What does he want to do with it? Also, beat him until he understands that 13" is the I tried to talk him into the 13" MBA and he is uninterested, so my goal has been to talk him into a nice 15" with Haswell. I thought I could give him a used 17" to start with then buy him a new laptop after he had actually been in class for a semester and dragged around a huge 17 inch beast, but his school requires dual bind wifi, and the old one doesn't have it. (Also most laptops don't bother to mention if they have it or not, including this Envy). He's going in as an Engineering student, so he'll do normal coursework plus probably run some more specialized software eventually. He plays games, but his current desktop is like 10 years old, so I'm pretty sure even an underpowered laptop will be an upgrade.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:35
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InstantInfidel posted:Buying an off-lease laptop only makes sense if it was treated absurdly well. In reality, what you're getting is an abused laptop issued to a cubicle monkey who couldn't give less of a poo poo about what happened to it. Thinkpads are tough, but deliberate mistreatment isn't easy to safeguard against. Expect excessive wear and tear, odd quirks that you can't explain that come from said wear and tear, poo poo battery life, and other fun things that imaginative lessees decided to try. For $250-$300 more, you can buy a Lenovo refurb and avoid literally all of these. The only reason to buy an off-lease is if you desperately need a laptop and absolutely cannot find another few hundred dollars. Maybe I've just had really good luck then, because the off-leases I've bought were always in like-new condition, and any consumer level laptop I could have had for anything close to the same price was fit only for the dumpster. Also, most people aren't made of airports. $300 is a lot of money. Especially if you're like me where your laptop isn't even your main computer. In fact, I've had such good luck with off-leases, I would never buy a new laptop again. In general, relative to desktops, laptops are underpowered and shoddily made. Even the Thinkpads are pretty shoddy to be honest, they're just not as shoddy as the other stuff that's out there. Laptops are just not made the way they were a decade or more ago. Basically with laptops you're paying a huge premium for the fact that they're portable. The hardware is all underpowered, badly made poo poo that's made in China by slaves at Foxconn. Going off-lease, you avoid the premium and pay what a laptop should really cost, which is no more than about $300 or so. Dick Fagballzson fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 20:09
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Cmdrmonkey posted:Maybe I've just had really good luck then, because the off-leases I've bought were always in like-new condition, and any consumer level laptop I could have had for anything close to the same price was fit only for the dumpster. Also, most people aren't made of airports. $300 is a lot of money. Especially if you're like me where your laptop isn't even your main computer. Seems like good advice for the op. "If you spend more than $300 for a laptop, you might be retarded." E: I guess there was one reasonable part in the above post: Laptops are just not made the way they were a decade or more ago. This is true. They're lighter, have better battery life, don't turn into space heaters after 15 minutes of use, cost a lot less, have better displays, many are more durable and better made, and are generally much better ideas and much more useful than they were 5-10 years ago. sourdough fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 20:33
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RVProfootballer posted:This is true. They're lighter, have better battery life, don't turn into space heaters after 15 minutes of use, cost a lot less, have better displays, many are more durable and better made, and are generally much better ideas and much more useful than they were 5-10 years ago. Macbooks maybe. Everyone else seems to be on a race to the bottom with lovely build quality and no attention to detail. It's hard to even find a laptop with a decent keyboard anymore. Dick Fagballzson fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 20:38
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havenwaters posted:There is a disassembly guide on the notebook review forums. Thanks for the link, that is for the blade pro 17" as far as I can tell (since it talks about the 500gb HDD which is not on the 14" model) and I do agree with people here on the fact that anything above 15" is absurd for the most part (and even then 15" is a bit big at times)
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Jul 5, 2013 20:46
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Separate question since my wife is in the market for a laptop and someone said to wait for the rMBA since the current MBA just had haswell but not the retina screen. Are you guys in agreement with that? If so I am assuming that won't be for like a year in which case that answers my question on whether to wait.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:48
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Cmdrmonkey posted:Macbooks maybe. Everyone else seems to be on a race to the bottom with lovely build quality and no attention to detail. It's hard to even find a laptop with a decent keyboard anymore. If you don't buy exclusively from Best Buy, you can find lots of well made stuff. Even companies with some of the worst consumer junk laptops, like Dell, Acer, and HP, have some decent or even excellent stuff put out in the past year or two. Samsung and Asus have similarly had some really solid laptops too. They won't be $300 or less, but they'll be a lot more pleasant to use than either a 5 year old laptop or a <$500 new piece of junk. E: I see where you're coming from if you have a really hard budget, cheap laptops are super junky. In that case, though, something like a Chromebook or good tablet may be a better option. sourdough fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 20:54
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SoggyGravy posted:Thanks for the link, that is for the blade pro 17" as far as I can tell (since it talks about the 500gb HDD which is not on the 14" model) and I do agree with people here on the fact that anything above 15" is absurd for the most part (and even then 15" is a bit big at times) Whoops. Forgot that was just a general razer forum. Anyway after some googling it looks like none of the parts can be upgraded by an end-user. If you replace anything, even the hdd, you forfeit your warranty. I can't find any disassembly guides on it either.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:12
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havenwaters posted:Whoops. Forgot that was just a general razer forum. That is definitely interesting, thanks for the details. I hate how there are a few options but nothing hits the BUY IT NOWNOWNOW button for me, somewhere in there is a metaphor for life I am sure.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:26
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RVProfootballer posted:If you don't buy exclusively from Best Buy, you can find lots of well made stuff. Best Buy actually stocks their own "detuned" versions of regular models. For example the Lenovos found at Best Buy, if you look carefully at the -xxxx end of the model number is a specific Best Buy build, designed to minimize cost. Typically it's a lower quality screen, 2GB of ram (instead of 4) and a lower binned processor than the equivilent you can find through amazon or the manufacturer's website.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:29
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I was just looking at customizing a Dell Latitude 6430u through my University's Premier site and I couldn't believe the difference in available options versus the regular Dell website. I can configure one with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM and neither are options on the regular site. There's also a choice of 5 different wireless cards plus 4 different mobile broadband options. Who knew?
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Jul 5, 2013 22:43
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Naffer posted:I was just looking at customizing a Dell Latitude 6430u through my University's Premier site and I couldn't believe the difference in available options versus the regular Dell website. I can configure one with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM and neither are options on the regular site. There's also a choice of 5 different wireless cards plus 4 different mobile broadband options. Sometimes at work, I'll explicitly tell my customer to order something through Dell on the phone, because the website will be missing stuff. But that's for spare parts. I just checked now. You can order what you want through Dell.com no problem. Just click on the top 'Customize and Buy' green button found on this page. You've got all the options you want. Just don't pick one of the pre-made options. It is surprising, though, that none of those pre-made ones has an i7 or 16GB RAM.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:57
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Naffer posted:I was just looking at customizing a Dell Latitude 6430u through my University's Premier site and I couldn't believe the difference in available options versus the regular Dell website. I can configure one with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM and neither are options on the regular site. There's also a choice of 5 different wireless cards plus 4 different mobile broadband options. The last few times i configured a Dell i noticed the number of options very very limited. Probably an attempt to not have so many build to order machines
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Jul 5, 2013 22:57
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I'm helping my brother find a laptop that game play modern games for $1400-$2000. It doesn't need to run the ultra highest graphic options or be portable, and he doesn't mind if the screen is under 1920x1080. I'm having trouble because I'm not familiar with the build quality on most laptop models. I'm aware that gaming laptops are very expensive and a terrible idea and that building a desktop is a better idea, but there's a long story behind this and a desktop isn't happening. The only laptops that I know firsthand are built well are Latitudes, Thinkpads, and Macbooks, although high performance Macbooks are probably too expensive. I had a look at Thinkpads and Latitudes but they all come with workstation GPUs and I'm not sure if that will cause problems vs the consumer equivalents. Any recommendations on models from other manufacturers to look at? My other idea was that to wait until like December after next-gen console games start coming out to get a vague idea of the kind of tech they'll be using but I'm not sure if it will matter that soon into the new games cycle.
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Jul 5, 2013 23:08
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If desktops are for sure out and that's your budget, shoot for the moon and get a Razer Blade. It's going to have the best build quality outside of a macbook and is probably the highest performing 14" laptop out there in terms of gaming.
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Jul 5, 2013 23:43
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fookolt linked this wonderful thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/what-notebook-should-i-buy/662161-thin-light-11-14-notebooks-gaming-worth-compendium-2013-update.html I think the first thing you need to do figure out what modern games he wants to play, playing Dota 2 and wow is much different than BF3.
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Jul 6, 2013 00:07
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The Clevo W230ST is sounding better and better the more I read about it, maybe it's worth waiting a couple of weeks for it's release?
Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 01:11
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I'm still ravin' about my x1 carbon
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Jul 6, 2013 01:37
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Picked up my new Macbook today. Beautiful. Runs like a dream. Now I have to figure out what to spend the $100 app store card on.modig posted:I tried to talk him into the 13" MBA and he is uninterested, so my goal has been to talk him into a nice 15" with Haswell. I thought I could give him a used 17" to start with then buy him a new laptop after he had actually been in class for a semester and dragged around a huge 17 inch beast, but his school requires dual bind wifi, and the old one doesn't have it. (Also most laptops don't bother to mention if they have it or not, including this Envy). He's going in as an Engineering student, so he'll do normal coursework plus probably run some more specialized software eventually. He plays games, but his current desktop is like 10 years old, so I'm pretty sure even an underpowered laptop will be an upgrade. I'll be honest: a 15" that isn't too bulky (AKA: no giant gaming rigs) isn't terrible to take to and from class. BUT, 15" laptops, even thin and light ones, still don't seem to be designed with portability and on-the-go usage in mind as much as 13" laptops, so they may have some flaws that a 13" wouldn't (unless you can go all out for something like a 15" Macbook). Check out reviews carefully to make sure there aren't any glaring issues. Overheating and/or absurdly loud fans seem common in slim 15" laptops, and watch out for battery life under 4 hours. Trust me, even if everything else is great, a laptop that can only last 2.5 hours with medium brightness and web surfing is really annoying, keeping in mind that schools have limited outlets and the tables around those outlets will often be crowded. 13" is definitely preferable if you can convince him, and the screen size has never been a problem for me. Perhaps take him to a store and let him actually look at the laptops? A few months ago I was set on a 15" because for whatever reason I'd gotten it into my head that a 13" would be cramped netbook size, but it's more than enough to meet my needs for homework and movies.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:59
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Mutation posted:The Clevo W230ST is sounding better and better the more I read about it, maybe it's worth waiting a couple of weeks for it's release? Definitely excited to see how that one shapes up, seems like it is coming out in July but there is so little concrete details other than July and a few specs from french and other non-us sites.
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Jul 6, 2013 05:00
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Fortuitous Bumble posted:I had a look at Thinkpads and Latitudes but they all come with workstation GPUs and I'm not sure if that will cause problems vs the consumer equivalents. It won't cause problems, the only problem is that they're usually underpowered. I mean a Thinkpad W530 or Dell Precision will have a pretty unimpressive GPU considering the cost (it isn't as good as the GT 650M), and the previous generation of Latitudes had very weak NVS 5200M GPUs that exist just for some low performance purpose like multi-monitor. They were the same GPU you'd see on the Lenovo T430s, generally speaking the Latitude E6xxx was Dell's alternative to the Thinkpad T-series last year. But weirdly enough the new Latitude E6540 is now for sale with an i7-4800MQ and a Radeon 8790M. You can't order a configurable build yet, but the pre-configured one you can order is smartly chosen and $1400-something. I'm not sure that's quite a good choice, unless a 15" 5.6 lb laptop is a good choice.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:20
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shrughes posted:It won't cause problems, the only problem is that they're usually underpowered. I mean a Thinkpad W530 or Dell Precision will have a pretty unimpressive GPU considering the cost (it isn't as good as the GT 650M), and the previous generation of Latitudes had very weak NVS 5200M GPUs that exist just for some low performance purpose like multi-monitor. They were the same GPU you'd see on the Lenovo T430s, generally speaking the Latitude E6xxx was Dell's alternative to the Thinkpad T-series last year. But weirdly enough the new Latitude E6540 is now for sale with an i7-4800MQ and a Radeon 8790M. You can't order a configurable build yet, but the pre-configured one you can order is smarItly chosen and $1400-something. My experience has been different. I have a Dell Precision M4400 with a Quadro 770FX card and driver support has been horrible as the PC has aged. The most recent Dell driver is several years old and isn't stable on Windows 8. The more-recent Nvidia reference drivers cause the PC to hard-lock almost instantly unless you disable all GPU power management. This GPU was only used in like 2 models of laptop and even though you can find many instances of people complaining about this problem, there has never been and likely never will be a fix. This is one risk of the uncommon professional style cards.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:40
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Getting a business class laptop with integrated CAD graphics (Quadro, etc.) is good provided that you're going to use the laptop to model and model only, on the same software you bought that year, and the same OS too. Most business-class GPUs have special drivers to push CAD performance, which is very different than what a typical game needs. HD5000, while still not scraping the very high end of discrete GPU options, will always receive awesome driver support and will cover the needs of an enthusiast as well as a professional. The W530 series exists for companies who need to buy a fleet of those things so their employees can use them on loan and have a reliable platform for "x" CAD program. It's not too necessary for a laptop anybody in this thread would particularly need. People shouldn't buy a laptop incapable of delivering a laptop experience. You should buy something that you'd be able to work on all day while leaving the charger at home.
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Jul 6, 2013 07:28
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The NVS5200/5400 seem fine as far as driver support goes - they're basically just a 600 series and have no issues using the normal Nvidia drivers. Then again the NVS5200 isn't much faster than an HD4000 for gaming so I'm not sure its worth paying for
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Jul 6, 2013 08:01
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What do you guys think about the refurbished retina 13' MacBook Pro? They are pretty cheap right now. Worth the price or should I wait and get the new model which will probably have the 1600€ base price again. Pumprag fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 08:32
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I'd either wait for the new one or grab a Haswell Air - the battery improvements are just too good to pass up (also better integrated graphics can only help on the retina model)
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Jul 6, 2013 08:56
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sports posted:Getting a business class laptop with integrated CAD graphics (Quadro, etc.) is good provided that you're going to use the laptop to model and model only, on the same software you bought that year, and the same OS too. Most business-class GPUs have special drivers to push CAD performance, which is very different than what a typical game needs. I have given up the idea of getting a tablet to sculpt on the go because I need my laptop to VJ with. Was about to buy the W530 but I read your post and realized there will be a new Haswell enabled Lenovo line which will be suited for CAD. Hopefully with something better than the Quadro K2000. Is it worth it to wait for the successor to the W530, or configure a SAGER? Hmmm. Somebody was talking about MSI build quality earlier. Wellll . . . The LCD cover and bezel has broken on my old one. Laptop works fine except not being able to close it.  Considering doing what this guy did. http://forum.notebookreview.com/not...pic-inside.html
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Jul 6, 2013 09:31
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sigma 6 posted:Hopefully with something better than the Quadro K2000. I'm not sure if there is anything better (for CAD purposes at least) - the K3000/4000/5000 require quite a lot more power. Then again who knows what the situation will be by the next W530 refresh - I doubt its going to happen anytime soon (really it isn't going to help a full sized laptop anywhere near as much as it does on an ultrabook)
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Jul 6, 2013 23:56
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Skeleton Apologist posted:What do you guys thonk about the refurbished retina 13' MacBook Pro? They are pretty cheap right now. Do you care about the battery life? The HD4000 and USB 3.0 on the 2012 are pretty dang good, so if you're not interested in the 12 hour battery, save your $$
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Jul 7, 2013 01:02
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