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Bremen posted:Hum, Does this mean Eren ate his father and that's why he disappeared? That would be a huge bummer. I hope that's not the case, I'd like to see him again, we could use a more coherent exposition fairy than Bert and Ernie.
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Jul 6, 2013 05:33
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Gonna bet that since Titans need to eat Humans to revert back to being Human again, Titans are the ones that constructed the walls and not humanity or any cults. Titans constructed the walls to keep humans in one place so they can feed their young to get them back in human form. When Bert and Ernie broke the wall(which they themselves said was juvenile and pretty dumb), it probably pissed a lot of people off for loving up their Human farm so they couldn't go back until they had concrete results/The Coordinate to keep their bros from killing them. Alternatively, Armin Ate Eren's Mom So He Could Be A Human Again™
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Jul 6, 2013 05:59
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Where the hell are you all getting this eating people to turn back into humans thing? All I got from the chapter was Ymir ate that guy, so clearly she was going crazy people munching titan the first time she transformed. Thus, when she finally managed to come to her senses and transform back, she'd never want to transform again for fear of going crazy and eating someone again. Also Bertholdt and Reiner may have flipped out and done some things they weren't proud of the first time they transformed as well. Like, say, smashing open the wall.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:42
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Chapter 47 Yeah, I'm not seeing this eat humans = regain coherent thought connection either. Nothing in this chapter suggests that. I think Ymir just transformed, lost herself for 60 years (which halted her aging), she eats Berik, then coincidentally regains composure. We've never seen Eren eat a human, so I see no reason that this is the case.
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Jul 6, 2013 07:01
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If you really want to stretch it, you could argue that he inadvertently ate the person in the neck of the titan he bite slammed at the end of his rampaging.
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Jul 6, 2013 07:20
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Exquisite Dead Guy posted:Chapter 47 Yeah, I'm not seeing this eat humans = regain coherent thought connection either. Nothing in this chapter suggests that. I think Ymir just transformed, lost herself for 60 years (which halted her aging), she eats Berik, then coincidentally regains composure. We've never seen Eren eat a human, so I see no reason that this is the case. Because they said it as if it's something all Titans go through. Like "So, who'd YOU eat when you hulked out?" as if it's just something everyone does. We never saw Eren eat a human, but there's also a lot of convenient unaccounted time. Also Eren could be a special case because of injections.
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Jul 6, 2013 08:06
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I think this is probably the most important chapter in a long time as far as advancing the story and uncovering the ontological mystery. From what I understand: Aging is halted in titan form, and you forget things. They specifically mention "Did you forget who you ate" and "It was the same for us" and then they point out that "Eren doesn't remember either." My analysis of this is that Eren, Bert and Ernie, and Ymir are actually way older and likely knew each other or had something to do with each other in the past. The first chapter is even called "To you in 2000 years" and Eren wakes up crying. It's likely he's remembering past events in a dream if he's actually older than he realizes. He even asks Mikasa if her hair is longer, so I think with the revelation that being in titan mode can halt aging (maybe even reverse it?), that Mikasa may even be a titan herself. Something is going on with her brain after all. I think it would be a great bombshell to reveal that the Jaegers are not Eren's real parents, and he's actually much older, not to mention was a Titan in the past. It even works with Grisha telling him about "Their memories" when he injects him. Whatever that is. Maybe when you come out of hibernation as a titan, you come out a blank slate, hence "their memories" would be Eren's past lives. Maybe you age, and then turn into a titan and then revert to a younger age over 60 years. God I love a good mystery.
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Jul 6, 2013 08:07
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This was quite the chapter. I don't agree with the assessment that the dialogue was implying titans eat someone to become human again. I can see where that idea is coming from in the chapter, but I think that's a misinterpretation. I saw it as Bert and Ernie asking if she had any memories of her time as a titan to see if she was any different, and she wasn't. I'm also not thinking Eren was originally a titan, I again think they're just referring to him not remembering his first transformation. Again, though, I can see where the idea is coming from. Personally I just think Bert and Ernie are trying to learn a little more about the whole situation, since I think they might be knowing less than we're hoping, since they're just warriors.
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Jul 6, 2013 08:39
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I had a different take on the whole eating people thing. At least in translation, Bert asking Ymir if she remembered who she ate come off to me as "do you remember what you did - you ate our (be and Reiner's) pal" as opposed to "we all eat someone, who was it for you?" The "same for us too" line struck me as more of simply remembering what one did as a Titan. Before they have titan transformations under control it seems like they don't remember what they do - the same way Eren was clueless about his initial stompfest.
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Jul 6, 2013 09:08
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Something to think about : if Bert and Ernie plan to leave the same way they came in, then they'll be carrying Eren right across the ruins of his home--and his basement.
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Jul 6, 2013 09:11
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Vincent Valentine posted:Because they said it as if it's something all Titans go through. Like "So, who'd YOU eat when you hulked out?" as if it's just something everyone does. We never saw Eren eat a human, but there's also a lot of convenient unaccounted time. Also Eren could be a special case because of injections. Honestly it is way more likely to expect the people in that world to anticipate a titan eating humans simple because that is what they do. It is what they are known to do and in Ymir's case they have seen her do it with their own eyes. In a world where titans roam and eat people, it makes sense to expect a former mindless titan to have eaten people. That doesn't mean there isn't room for exceptions but all things considered it would be silly not to believe that this here former roiding titan lived purely on a solar diet. Kinda makes me wonder about Reiner and Bert's age, since it may be true that they went through a similar phase. On top of that what I wonder how they snapped out of it. Eren needed a lot of outside stimuli and he was chilling half decapped against a boulder. How do you do this with a tiny nimble/densely armored/mega huge angry fucker?
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Jul 6, 2013 10:23
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After reading this chapter, I'm sorta wishing again that Eren hadn't turned out to be a Titan cause even if his leg and arm had been bitten off for good back then, that obviously wouldn't have affected him much. I could watch a whole series about Eren beating things up with his stumps. Even though I knew that was coming it was still great.Schwarzwald posted:Something to think about : if Bert and Ernie plan to leave the same way they came in, then they'll be carrying Eren right across the ruins of his home--and his basement. Oh man I hope so, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
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Jul 6, 2013 10:28
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So remember those big analyses we did a while back where we were interpreting Bert's various expressions as 'Reiner, what the hell are you doing?". How many of 'em d'you think were actually "drat, Annie, you fine"?
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Jul 6, 2013 11:07
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I think this is probably the most important chapter in a long time as far as advancing the story and uncovering the ontological mystery. It seems more likely that they are just mentioning the anti-aging side effect of titan form in reference to Ymir alone. It doesn't seem plausable that Erin is much older than he is because his early memories line up with the timeline everyone else remembers. (e.g. The colossal titan attacking 5 years ago, both he and Mikasa sharing in childhood memories) I think that in the case of Ymir, Bert and Ernie are aware of what staying in titan form can do and are just informing her that they know.
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Jul 6, 2013 14:53
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Brought To You By posted:It seems more likely that they are just mentioning the anti-aging side effect of titan form in reference to Ymir alone. It doesn't seem plausable that Erin is much older than he is because his early memories line up with the timeline everyone else remembers. (e.g. The colossal titan attacking 5 years ago, both he and Mikasa sharing in childhood memories) I think what they're saying is All of that stuff happened before the flashbacks we saw. So Eren has had 5+ years of human life (or however long from the flashback where he met Mikasa to now) after his 2,000 years of being a titan. Also, (assuming the 'eat a human to turn back to a human' is legit) if Eren managed to go back to being human without eating a human, that could be why Bert and Ernie tried kidnapping him. Something happened to Eren to make it so he could change back without eating a person, and they want that so they can stop feeding people to titans.
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Jul 6, 2013 16:38
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I can't help but think about how it was mentioned that Eren's father had saved the village from a disease in one of the first few issues. I think that may be Titan related. Could the titans be some form of biological warfare? Maybe a weapon that got out of control and people eventually developed resistances to it and got their human form back. It seems like titans eat humans because its the most reliable way to get a human out of a titans neck? I don't know just a lot of speculation.
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Jul 6, 2013 16:49
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I'm assuming by the coordinate Bert means the basement, but they don't know what it is yet. Likely there's something in there they want like the titan formula or some sort.
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Jul 6, 2013 16:50
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This page is interesting: http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/47/17 The entire page being shown from Eren's perspective tells a lot. First of all, Eren finally discovered some valuable information before passing out. It's also a strong indicator that Eren was a titan-turned-human, particularly with Ymir describing her titan life as a never-ending nightmare. Someone mentioned that the girl from Eren's dream in the very beginning might have been someone from outside the wall. If you check the dream sequence from the first anime episode, the girl isn't there, but there's a lot more stuff that is incredibly confusing. It ends with a seemingly prophetic vision of Eren's mother being lifted from the ruins of their house, but before that there are a couple scenes depicting titans (which Eren supposedly had never seen before?), a bunch of dead people including what looks to be scouting legion folks, what looks like royal-type clothing on a broken statue by a fireplace, and fancy toys in front of royal-looking tapestry. If these are memories from before the walls, then there are some interesting implications...
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Jul 6, 2013 17:03
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Just going to add to the posters who are not even remotely seeing this "eat a human to turn back into a human" stuff. I'm pretty confident that people are misreading that. The one thing in the chapter that stands out to me as notable new information is Ymir's comment of "Wait for my chance?! Like after I'm devoured by your warriors!?" It seems to imply that #1 there are more titan-humans like Reiner/Bertholdt back in their village and #2 for some reason they devour people (it's not clear whether it's as a punishment or because they somehow gain something from doing so; or something else entirely). As a side comment on the anime, it's been moving extremely slowly the past few episodes. I could really do with a lot less dramatic slow-motion inner monologues and the like. Even though most/all of this was also in the manga, it's different to read a paragraph of text than it is to watch someone thinking/talking for 2 minutes with dramatic music playing in the background. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 17:38
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Another option for the age thing: We've seen that titan-humans/human-titans/whatever all have amazing regeneration even in their human form. Maybe that makes them just stop aging, either as soon as they're 18 or so, or at whatever age they first become a titan (if Eren was never a titan before he burst out at Trost). Also, I wonder if this "coordinate" is related to Eren's dad. He did leave somewhere just before the first attack, and if they're wondering whether it is Eren himself or not, maybe they're looking for something connected to Dr. Jaeger. Maybe they're looking for what's in his basement, without even knowing that it's there - they broke the wall in the right place, but didn't know to look under the house. As for some unrelated speculation, I'm wondering again just how much there might be outside the wall. Maybe there's multiple other places, perhaps warring ones, and maybe Ymir came from a place that was fighting Bert/Reiner's "hometown", which is why she has her own "people" and it's dangerous for her to go there. Then there's the question of the inner circle, built over some mine, and with the 3D Gear clearly capable of technology that doesn't jive with the otherwise medieval setting. What if they have radio? They could be communicating with other places without ever having to step outside the walls... Culinary Bears fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 18:58
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There was also that titan in Conrad's (I think) home village, which couldn't have moved there on its own legs and may or may not have recognized him. Then there was a titan attack within a wall that had not been breached. Both together imply to me that it is possible to turn near anyone into a titan. And noted Titan researcher Dr. Jäger saved a village from an epidemic, so is it so outlandish to think that said epidemic may have been a Titan-virus of some sort?
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Jul 6, 2013 20:09
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So it more or less seems like there's two kinds of titans: mindless ones and human-titans. Going off what ArchangeI is speculating,what if Dr. Jaeger helped stopped that possible titan outbreak, took some samples back home, reverse engineered the human-titan creation method then used it on Eren for whatever reason. Which if there's some kind of war in the past/still going on involving the use of titans, the group outside the wall (who obviously have the titan tech) might not have been pleased to find out possibly somebody's figured out how to create new human-titans. And possibly that's what started the first attack on the walls, in reaction to that information. I'm not sure I really buy into the idea that Eren is really decades older, or that Bert and Reiner are either. Probably Ymir's a fringe case.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:42
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Goddamn posted:Also, I wonder if this "coordinate" is related to Eren's dad. He did leave somewhere just before the first attack, and if they're wondering whether it is Eren himself or not, maybe they're looking for something connected to Dr. Jaeger. Maybe they're looking for what's in his basement, without even knowing that it's there - they broke the wall in the right place, but didn't know to look under the house. That could also explain why another attack didn't happen for so long. They're specifically targeting places where they think the "coordinate" is, and the titans were just a distraction for them to search the town for what they are looking for. With everyone running from titans, eventually the town would clear out and they could search through all the buildings unhindered. But the basement is in a demolished house, so they didn't think to look there or something.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:35
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The full version of the opening got posted in the anime thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ftEAb7aEp0 A quick glance at google showed no translation or transcription of the german speaking parts so here ya go: at various points: Wir sind die Jäger - we are the hunters at the start: feuerroter Qualm - fire-red smoke starting at 3:15 Angriff auf die Titanen - attack on the titans (correct german grammar, no engrish equivalent) Der Junge von Einst wird bald zum Schwert greifen - the boy of yore will soon reach for the sword Wer nur seine Machtlosigkeit beklagt kann nichts verändern - who only bemoans his powerlessness can change nothing Der Junge von einst wird bald das schwarze Schwert ergreifen - the of yore will soon grasp the black sword Hass und Zorn sind eine zweischneidige Klinge - hate and anger are a double edged blade Bald, eines Tages wird er dem Schicksal die Zähne zeigen - soon, one day he will show his teeth to destiny and a few notes: "einst" means "once" as in long ago but using "once" makes for awkward english sentences "zum Schwert greifen" is more a general "will resort to violence" while "das schwarze Schwert ergreifen" comes of as actually grabbing as black sword. No idea how intentional that is or if i'm missing a metaphor or something. "zweischneidige Klinge" actually sounds like "zweischeidige Klinge" which would mean double-sheathed blade, no idea if they actually want to say that, zweischneidig seems more likely. Should i hit the anime thread with this considering the "boy from long ago" stuff? My guess is that i should but i just want to make sure.
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Jul 6, 2013 22:55
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Bremen posted:Hum, Does this mean Eren ate his father and that's why he disappeared? This is my guess.
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Jul 6, 2013 23:20
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I have no idea where people are getting that eating a person gives you your sanity back. At all. There is nothing in this chapter that even hints at that. They're just talking about what it's like being a mindless titan and doing things you regret. Ever since the whole thing with the sasquatch turning people into titans, I've been assuming that every titan is a former human. I mean, the weak point is the neck, and we know that that is where Eren's human body is located. It makes sense that it's the same for "regular" titans as well. They're just insane and can't transform back. Eren's dad was doing research on the titan virus (or whatever) and that's why he was giving Eren injections.
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Jul 6, 2013 23:59
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I'm joining the "eating" does stuff camp. They're definitely not just talking about eating people. It's way too specific. "Ymir, after you went back to being human, did you still remember who you ate?" "No? I don't remember, but that was just about five years ago. Was it one of your comrades? I see. I'm sorry. I don't even remember." "It can't be helped if you don't remember. It was the same for us, too." "I see." "Eren doesn't seem to remember either." There has to be a specific reason that converts titans back into people. It wouldn't make much sense if Bert and Reiner didn't remember who they ate during the initial attack, considering they still have knowledge about their hometown and their past even after joining the scouting legion. We have to think about who Ymir actually ate: another titan in human form. This might be a stretch, but it's very possible that eating a titan-human is what causes titans to revert to their human forms. I really doubt eating humans would transform titans back into humans. There are tons of titans that eat people up. I really doubt they convert to human form for no reason either.
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Jul 7, 2013 01:30
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Even what you just quoted reads like "Did you remember you ate our friend?" "No." "Yeah, we remember jack poo poo, also. Eren had blackouts, too." I'm not seeing anything hinting at consuming titan-humans regaining sanity.
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Jul 7, 2013 01:40
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Exquisite Dead Guy posted:Even what you just quoted reads like "Did you remember you ate our friend?" "No." "Yeah, we remember jack poo poo, also. Eren had blackouts, too." I'm not seeing anything hinting at consuming titan-humans regaining sanity. Right, but it wouldn't make sense for Reiner and Bert to not remember stuff. They seem to remember a hell of a lot right now. It could also always be a lovely translation. If they were talking about a plural "who you had eaten" it would be pretty obvious that they're talking in general. But the way it's worded seems so specific.
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Jul 7, 2013 01:55
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Thoren posted:Right, but it wouldn't make sense for Reiner and Bert to not remember stuff. They seem to remember a hell of a lot right now. From their subsequent transformations. They're talking to Ymir about what was probably her first transformation that she was stuck in for 60 years. Now that she's out and can control her transformation more readily, she seems to have a better grasp on what she'd done in titan form. It follows from that that what they don't remember is also from their first time as titans which is now an undetermined length of time ago. I think the most important things to latch onto at the moment are is the line about Eren not remembering things either and the time period of 60 years. With the first, I'm latching onto the "Eren has had a titan form longer than we've known" train. I don't know if that means that he was once a titan that became a human child raised by Grisha and Eren's mom's name or if this comes from when Eren doesn't remember anything while getting shot up with mystery goo or something else we don't know about. With the second, we can obviously take that some amount of titans are humans transformed intentionally, but it raises the important question of why since this would have been well after humanity retreated into the walls. What is the point of making someone like Ymir?
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Jul 7, 2013 02:09
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If I remember correctly, Eren's dad said something about his memory being affected before injecting him with something. It could be that Eren's dad isolated whatever it is that human titans speculatively eat each other for and is able to extract it or synthesize it.
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Jul 7, 2013 08:42
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Hodgepodge posted:If I remember correctly, Eren's dad said something about his memory being affected before injecting him with something. He referenced "Their memories" (even put it as "Their memories") so there is something more to that injection. Yeah I'm not completely sold on the idea that devouring restores sanity to a Titan Shifter. There is no real hint to that at all., but on the other hand it's a fact that devouring humans does do something for Titans in particular. They're not doing it for no reason. They can't digest them or gain nutrients that we know of. I think if they're getting anything out of the act of devouring, it's the blood. quote:Der Junge von Einst wird bald zum Schwert greifen - the boy of yore will soon reach for the sword I'm not going to say that's confirmation or anything but that does seem to align with the hint that Eren may be significantly older than advertised. How do we know that Grisha's injection was what turned Eren into a titan? It might do something completely different. My suspicion is that titans are transformed humans. Eren was transformed into a titan 2000 years ago (hence the first issue "To you in 2000 years" and would line up with the "Boy of Yor"), reverted to human form, and then raised by the Grishas. I imagine Mikasa might be a Titan as well, because her introduction is saying "See you later, Eren" with a smile on her face, there is darkness, and then he points out her hair is longer after he wakes up. This is meaningless but being thousands of years old would certainly make Eren live up to his name of "Holy Hunter". Though of course, it says that Titans showed up 105 years ago and not thousands. I imagine also part of the whole "Titan going crazy" thing probably already happened to Eren before Armin snapped him out of it. When he tried to attack Mikasa, and then Armin reminding Eren what his ultimate goal is probably what brought him out of the insanity. Staying cooped up in the house and complacent would probably be Eren's unending nightmare. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2013 09:07
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final2percent posted:Someone mentioned that the girl from Eren's dream in the very beginning might have been someone from outside the wall. If you check the dream sequence from the first anime episode, the girl isn't there, but there's a lot more stuff that is incredibly confusing. It ends with a seemingly prophetic vision of Eren's mother being lifted from the ruins of their house, but before that there are a couple scenes depicting titans (which Eren supposedly had never seen before?), a bunch of dead people including what looks to be scouting legion folks, what looks like royal-type clothing on a broken statue by a fireplace, and fancy toys in front of royal-looking tapestry. If these are memories from before the walls, then there are some interesting implications... The first episode isn't a flashback, Eren doesn't receive the (racial memory?) injection until afterwards. Jackard fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2013 10:13
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Nelson Mandingo posted:but on the other hand it's a fact that devouring humans does do something for Titans in particular. Not necessarily. If titans were engineered to be a bioweapon, the devouring might be the end in itself.
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Jul 7, 2013 12:58
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Thoren posted:Right, but it wouldn't make sense for Reiner and Bert to not remember stuff. They seem to remember a hell of a lot right now. Gosh, it's almost as if you're reading an amateur translation from a language that doesn't have that particular nuance or meaning as concerns Plural/Singular. Someone refresh my memory: does Eren ever mention remembering his time going ape-poo poo all over the titans in Trost?
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Jul 7, 2013 16:03
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I think he said something about remembering being angry at one point.
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Jul 7, 2013 16:19
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Dr_Amazing posted:I think he said something about remembering being angry at one point. Eren in a rare moment of self-reflection.
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Jul 7, 2013 18:32
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  What. I like this one:  Also isn't the blonde hair of the female titan going to be a big giveaway? 
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Jul 7, 2013 18:51
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What would he rope onto? 
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Jul 7, 2013 19:01
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DrSunshine posted:What would he rope onto? Other titans.
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Jul 7, 2013 19:03
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