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canyoneer posted:Are there any tips you can share about babby's first tactics in Shogun 2? Do whatever you can to surround enemy units. If you have two enemy melee units coming at your two melee units, use one of your units to hold the two of them off while you march the other one around to attack both in the rear. With Chokosabe, you'll want to recruit more archers than melee units since they get a 10% accuracy bonus, but you can still try to surround them with archers to devastating effect. If you can get archer units to the right and left and in front of the enemy army (don't try for the rear unless you've got all of their units tied up), you're golden. That's a pretty basic strategy, but it should easily get you started with Chokosabe. Use your first two or three turns to recruit a half-stack and then try to march up and conquer the territory to the north of your starting position. It's better to try and draw the enemy army out than lay siege right away, especially at such an early point. If you're having trouble doing this with your large army, just hide most of your stack in the trees and then put a single unit that's visible out in front of them. With any luck, they'll take the bait. Order your single unit to retreat from the enemy attack and hopefully you'll be able to ambush the enemy with your large army when they come after the retreating unit.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:55
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Gort posted:Oh, I'm not saying, "Make Total War equal to Paradox", I just reckon they could take some cues from it, same as Civilization games. Cassus belli and infamy mechanics (IE: You have to have a reason to declare war or you take a big diplomacy hit, and if you expand too quickly you take a big diplomacy hit which often lands you in a lot of wars) would be other good ones to take. As it is in Total War you often end up at war with people for little reason than that you share a border, and everyone hates you after a while for the crime of successfully playing the game.
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Jul 15, 2013 23:44
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I have been playing Shogun 2 for about two months now. It is the first Total War game that I play. As such I am not too familiar with the TW formula. Will Rome II be similar to Shogun? Does the Rome series have the same amount of city-building, diplomacy, technology aspects as the Shogun games? I love the battles but I also like feeling like I created the society I am playing as. I already pre-ordered Rome II so I guess I am looking for reassurance that it's not going to suck.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:26
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Frijolero posted:I have been playing Shogun 2 for about two months now. It is the first Total War game that I play. As such I am not too familiar with the TW formula. Will Rome II be similar to Shogun? Does the Rome series have the same amount of city-building, diplomacy, technology aspects as the Shogun games? I love the battles but I also like feeling like I created the society I am playing as. I already pre-ordered Rome II so I guess I am looking for reassurance that it's not going to suck. Shogun 2 was the refinement and distillation of the Total War game design ethos, an evolutionary step that makes it spectacular. Rome 2, while making some revolutionary changes, will still be carrying all of those things you love so much with the series (They basically define the series!), so rest assured that if you enjoyed Shogun 2, Rome 2 will be thoroughly enjoyable as well.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:34
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Rome 2 is going to be amazing. Just putting that out there. The real time combat engine was always kind of wonky and off up until Shogun 2. It's hard to go back to the original Rome and deal with formations suddenly stopping when a single man with a spear hits the enemy diagonally, and the lack of kinetic energy outside of a literal cavalry charge was often unreliable or nonexistent. The camera and Field of View in any kind of severe elevation was really terrible and distorted, Phalanx formations were not capable of charging and only partially salvaged in Alexander. After seeing what was done with Shogun 2, I'm extremely positive about both the campaign and the real time battles. CA has a proven track record of improving upon mistakes and every game was better than the last except Empire, which was totally absolved by Napoleon.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:39
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shalcar posted:Shogun 2 was the refinement and distillation of the Total War game design ethos, an evolutionary step that makes it spectacular. CA employee spotted. But yeah, totally stoked for this game, until they took XP off the minimum specs. I was happy with my 2001-era OS, dammit! Speaking of Alexander, how do you have your army keep up with you? I ended up with just Alex and a pile of mercenaries under him as I left chunks of his macedonian army sitting in the cities as I advanced and the ones that stayed with me attrited to nothing. By the time I got to Bactria I didn't have a single Macedonian in my army except for the king. Is that normal or was I doing it wrong?
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Jul 16, 2013 01:55
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canyoneer posted:Once I get in battle, I have a very hard time winning battles if the little slider shows me at any kind of disadvantage. Well, the absolute basic battle tactic is a simple line and flanker setup. First, you want your main battle line in the center, comprised of your basic line unit, whatever that is. Generally it'll be yari ashigaru with some yari samurai for stiffeners to begin with, but eventually you'll want to use either katana samurai or naginata samurai for the line - katana kills opposing infantry better, but naginatas can hold out longer against most things. The job of the main battle line is to tie up as many of the enemy's troops as is practical and hold out until your flankers break the enemy. On the flanks, you want some kind of mobile shock unit - cavalry is perfect for this role, as are no-dachi samurai - in a pinch, though, most any kind of samurai will do the job. Their job is to dart out when the battle lines are engaged to smash into the enemy's rear, and to see off any attempt by the enemy to do the same to your army. They are what, generally, wins your battles for you. You will also want some bowmen of varying proportions depending on what you're trying to do to skirmish in front of your line, and to soften up the melee once it starts. More critically, be sure to maintain some kind of reserve force of infantry in a block behind the main line, to plug holes in your battle line or to exploit breakthroughs. At all times, the basic idea will be to try and hit individual enemy units from multiple sides while keeping them from doing the same to you - the above tactics and formation is designed to help do precisely that. If something goes wrong and you end up with a confused, muddled melee with troops in clumps all over the map locked in private battles on a hill during a thunderstorm, do not panic - pause the game (remember you can do that!) and try, at all times, to continually gang up on individual units, breaking them one by one to free up more and more of your men to gang up on more and more units. Generally speaking, by the way, you really want to upgrade to all-samurai units once you can afford to do so - they're just better than ashigaru for most things, and are absolutely essential when laying siege, since ashigaru morale is often too poor to allow them to even make their way up walls under fire without routing. That said, even with good troops, sieges against anything but the weakest garrisons are copper-plated bitches and I generally either autoresolve or wait them out. One final note - almost all cavalry in Shogun 2 are terrible at frontal attacks and should not be used in that way - they do much better striking already-engaged units from the flanks to rout them. Once the battle is over you should also be making liberal use of them to hunt down fleeing units and keep them from being a problem for you in the future.
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Jul 16, 2013 11:11
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At least the naval battles are more fun.
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While we are on the topic of cavalry in Shogun 2, one of the things I am looking forward to is owning the battlefield again with my Macedonian Companion Cavalry, or drowning the enemy in arrows with my Parthian mounted archers. There was not enough badass cavalry in Japan.
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Jul 16, 2013 12:51
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You never win a battle in a total war game by just tossing all of your guys at the enemy and waiting for your dudes to kill them all. The way you win battles in total war games is by routing the enemy. You do that by fixing and flanking. Like the scholarly gentleman Tomn described.
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Jul 16, 2013 13:56
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Or sitting back with 20 ranged units and watching the enemy all run to their deaths  And Slim Jim Pickens I feel like our argument is just going in circles so it's probably time we moved on, but maybe we understand each other's case a little better now!
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Jul 16, 2013 14:31
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SHISHKABOB posted:You never win a battle in a total war game by just tossing all of your guys at the enemy and waiting for your dudes to kill them all. The way you win battles in total war games is by routing the enemy. You do that by fixing and flanking. Like the scholarly gentleman Tomn described. Alternatively, you can win any battle (against the AI) by virtue of being on the defensive during a siege battle.
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Jul 16, 2013 14:51
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canyoneer posted:Was I the only one who found Waterloo in N:TW to be disappointing? The campaign was so great, and it was a pretty uninteresting end to it. I played the Waterloo scenario and no poo poo beaned Napoleon right off his horse with the very first shot of the battle from a cannonball bounce. "drat this weather sir, damp powder makes misfi - their general is dead, sir! Now they must break!"
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Jul 16, 2013 14:51
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Chomp8645 posted:Alternatively, you can win any battle (against the AI) by virtue of being on the defensive during a siege battle. I've never won a siege defense with ~4 spearmen vs. a full stack, does this mean I'm bad at total war 
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Jul 16, 2013 17:40
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In medieval, put as many troops as you can on the walls to repel ladders and then two rows of defensive troops in a V formation facing the door so that when the enemies break through they get enclosed in it. Get your general and continuously ram him in to the wedge and out again whilst rallying (sounds cool). I've managed to defeat full stacks with like a general and 4 lots of spearman before
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Jul 16, 2013 18:12
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Koramei posted:And Slim Jim Pickens I feel like our argument is just going in circles so it's probably time we moved on, but maybe we understand each other's case a little better now! Yeah, definitely. I think I understand now that our playstyles are just drastically different, so I'm sorry if I called you bad at games for a little back there. All jokes on this end!  Torrannor posted:While we are on the topic of cavalry in Shogun 2, one of the things I am looking forward to is owning the battlefield again with my Macedonian Companion Cavalry, or drowning the enemy in arrows with my Parthian mounted archers. There was not enough badass cavalry in Japan. Cavalry is still badass in Shogun 2, but the stricter game dynamics make them worse overall. When the basic unit is Yari ashigaru, the hard counter to cavalry is always present and makes it risky to commit right off the bat. However, if you're ever fighting the Ikko Ikki, make some Katana cavalry and watch them shred Loan Swords.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:45
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So it looks like CA toned down the arrow trails to something more subtle! I guess some of the community's bitching was good for something half decent after all. What irks me more is that CA reverted back to the big intrusive unit standards. Again. The rondels in Napoleon were non-intrusive and suited the game much better in my opinion.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:33
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I hope the strategic level of the campaign isn't as broken in Rome as it was in Shogun. Once you've played a campaign or two, you basically had to go out of your way to avoid all the overpowered elements and roleplay like hell to not make the actual battles an afterthought and a joke.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:37
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Chomp8645 posted:Alternatively, you can win any battle (against the AI) by virtue of being on the defensive during a siege battle. How's that? Any time I get stuck in a siege battle with basic infantry and the enemy has 2-4 bow samurai I know I'm hosed. I've never understood how CA let enemy archers outside the fort have pinpoint accuracy blindfiring at enemies 100 feet in elevation higher than them and behind walls.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:40
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Chomp8645 posted:Alternatively, you can win any battle (against the AI) by virtue of being on the defensive during a siege battle. This is true and one reason I'm glad they eliminated most siege battles.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:40
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Clamps McGraw posted:I played the Waterloo scenario and no poo poo beaned Napoleon right off his horse with the very first shot of the battle from a cannonball bounce. "drat this weather sir, damp powder makes misfi - their general is dead, sir! Now they must break!" I literally laughed to tears at this description. SHISHKABOB posted:You never win a battle in a total war game by just tossing all of your guys at the enemy and waiting for your dudes to kill them all. The way you win battles in total war games is by routing the enemy. You do that by fixing and flanking. Like the scholarly gentleman Tomn described. Artillery did all the heavy lifting for me in Napoleon. Keep the big guns hot and your general protected, and the battle is won. I'm learning the hard way that Shogun 2 units are more expendable, and I should expect to lose more of them in combat.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:05
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^^ I never did play much Empire and no Napoleon, so I guess my advice doesn't work for every total war game  concerned mom posted:In medieval, put as many troops as you can on the walls to repel ladders and then two rows of defensive troops in a V formation facing the door so that when the enemies break through they get enclosed in it. Get your general and continuously ram him in to the wedge and out again whilst rallying (sounds cool). I've managed to defeat full stacks with like a general and 4 lots of spearman before A unit of heavy cavalry can really make all the difference in a M2TW battle. Also I have never ever considered a V formation on the gates before. I always just sort of put three overlapping stacks facing the gate, with the two on the wings sort of slanted in order to achieve an enclosement. But just putting two guys in a V sounds like it would be a hell of a lot simpler. Thanks for the tip!
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Jul 16, 2013 21:56
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If you have units capable of putting down stakes, do so right behind the gate. This is especially hilarious against the Mongols, but works against any cavalry-heavy army. It could probably be considered an exploit, though.
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Jul 16, 2013 22:06
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Schiltron in front of the gate also works wonders, and phalanxes are just broken as gently caress in sieges.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:54
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Schiltron in front of the gate also works wonders, and phalanxes are just broken as gently caress in sieges. Seconding the phalanxe thing. One unit will kill everything, two units will kill everything leisurely. Everything else is there just to try and catch xp.
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Jul 17, 2013 00:16
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I loved doing it in Rome, especially if you spaced it out a bit and charged both in, they would morale shock whatever was there because of flanking. 2 decent line units could take on so many enemies this way because of how awful the pathfinding would handle units routing and advancing through such a tight bottleneck. Also, I distinctly remember in Rome that when a unit burst through a gate like that, they would stop for a second to change direction. It was always hilarious in that it always looked like they ran through, collectively thought "Wait, what the gently caress are we doing here again?", and then ran down the street.
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Jul 17, 2013 01:03
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I used to get joy from defending my cities from sieges in Rome: Total War. But that joy was soon sapped, when time and again, I realised how stupidly broken sieges were. Siege AI is terrible. They have a superior force and 4 ladders, 2 siege engines and a ram? SEND THE LADDERS FORWARD! Or it's them sending the ram, and completely disregarding the walls, and bottlenecking everyone through the gates.
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Jul 17, 2013 06:06
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Clamps McGraw posted:I played the Waterloo scenario and no poo poo beaned Napoleon right off his horse with the very first shot of the battle from a cannonball bounce. "drat this weather sir, damp powder makes misfi - their general is dead, sir! Now they must break!" This reminds me of the time I first played the demo to Empire. I was in the middle of the Britain V US land battle when suddenly I got a message saying that the enemy general had been killed, I panned the camera over and found Washington's cavalry unit far from the fighting, with Washington and his horse lying on the ground dead in front of one of their own cannons. 
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Jul 17, 2013 06:14
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Sometimes it felt like those Empire cannons killed more of your own troops than the enemy's, didn't it? They (usually) didn't, mind you, but it felt like it.
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Jul 17, 2013 07:07
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Must have patched it out, or kept it in for only some difficulties. I watched the AI park a line of infantry right in front of their cannons and shot through them with no effect. Not like the boneheads in my army: "Oh, you'd like me over there? Let's run in formation and put half our line in front of the cannons while we run  "Turns out Shogun 2's battles are much more fun and survivable when you have the right army composition. Who knew? The naval battles are pretty fun too. N:TW's were awful. I don't get the point of capturing ships, unless it's one you're not teched up to build. Otherwise, by the time you've sent it to port and repaired it, it's almost the same cost as building a new one anyway  ALL BOMB KOBAYAS TO THE ENEMY FLAGSHIP GO GO GO
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Jul 17, 2013 07:28
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Capturing ships is great when you are Austria and can't figure out how to put more than 74 guns on a ship.
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Jul 17, 2013 07:37
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How bad is friendly fire from archers in Shogun 2? I hate only getting a few volleys off then pulling the archers back so my men can safely engage. I feel like their potential is wasted. Harassing routing enemies is all well and good, but I want them to do much more than fire a few volleys. If I allow them to carry on firing from behind my main line, even when my melee engage, will I cause a lot of losses?
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Jul 17, 2013 09:25
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They'll hurt your guys but in general they'll hit the back of the enemy line more than the front, so your guys should be ok. That said, if you move them into a flanking position, its much more effective. Bow samurai are obviously better for this due to the likelihood of them getting charged. E: On cav talk, light cav is definitely worth replacing with bow/katana if you're using a lot of cav and expecting to have to defend a castle. I'm trying out a takeda cav army and its pretty frightening to get sieges early on.
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Jul 17, 2013 10:13
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Sometimes it felt like those Empire cannons killed more of your own troops than the enemy's, didn't it? They (usually) didn't, mind you, but it felt like it. I don't know about Empire, but in Napoleon the cannons will (as in real life) kill anything that happens to be in front of them. So don't put your guys there!
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Jul 17, 2013 13:07
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They got Mark Strong to voice the prologue protagonist, evidently. Looks like they're putting quite a bit of effort into making the prologue interesting. Also some stuff about making the soundtrack and effects.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:09
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peer posted:They got Mark Strong to voice the prologue protagonist, evidently. Looks like they're putting quite a bit of effort into making the prologue interesting. He's doing a fair bit of videogame voicework these days.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:26
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peer posted:They got Mark Strong to voice the prologue protagonist, evidently. Looks like they're putting quite a bit of effort into making the prologue interesting. The soundtrack sounds pretty good to me and it will be interesting to see how the prologue plays out, also over on TWC the devs are asking Prometheus to show some human decency so a full meltdown probably isn't far away.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:36
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I was hoping the soundtrack would sound more like Rome instead of Empire and Napoleon but what I've heard is good music, just not the style I would have particularly wanted.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:55
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Thom12255 posted:I was hoping the soundtrack would sound more like Rome instead of Empire and Napoleon but what I've heard is good music, just not the style I would have particularly wanted. I'm really puzzled why they didn't bring back Jeff van Dyck after he knocked it out of the park with Shogun 2, especially considering that he composed the original Rome soundtrack. Using the Empire/Napoleon composer just seems a strange choice to me.
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Jul 17, 2013 15:01
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shalcar posted:I'm really puzzled why they didn't bring back Jeff van Dyck after he knocked it out of the park with Shogun 2, especially considering that he composed the original Rome soundtrack. Using the Empire/Napoleon composer just seems a strange choice to me. Apparently he was never contacted at all, so it wasn't anything like contract negotiations going real bad real quick. They just decided to go with the Napoleon dude for reasons.  edit: Everytime I see Foley Artists doing their thing they make it seem like the best job ever. I wanna throw stuff at other stuff for a living.
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Jul 17, 2013 15:06
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Lord Tywin posted:The soundtrack sounds pretty good to me and it will be interesting to see how the prologue plays out, also over on TWC the devs are asking Prometheus to show some human decency so a full meltdown probably isn't far away. Can we get a link to this?
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Jul 17, 2013 15:30
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