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That thing isn't actually capable of driving on a flat, straight road, is it?
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Jul 21, 2013 21:37
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Polymerized Cum posted:That thing isn't actually capable of driving on a flat, straight road, is it? Not until they install a drive shaft.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:00
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That's the front differential, the rear has a driveshaft. Every time I look at those goddamn pics I find another thing they did horribly wrong.
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Jul 21, 2013 23:57
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kastein posted:That's the front differential, the rear has a driveshaft. I know this would move into the massive effortpost realm, but if you could take each of those suspension pictures, and break down what's wrong in each of them and why, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who would enjoy the gently caress out of such a post. Anybody who has even a passing knowledge of cars knows that poo poo is clearly un-sat, but it's awesome to see someone who really knows what they're doing tear something awful apart. 
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Jul 22, 2013 00:11
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 E: Better shot  I honestly don't know where to begin. It's all terrible. All of it. 
Root Bear fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 00:14
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Root Bear posted:
What in the hell am I looking at there?
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Jul 22, 2013 00:15
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General_Failure posted:What in the hell am I looking at there? Impending death. 
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Jul 22, 2013 00:17
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Just noticed the padlock by the sway bar bushing. What the gently caress. Also what the hell is going on with the tie rod crown nut? Shouldn't there be a cotter pin? It looks like there's a nail driven through a groove in the bolt. Is that a thing, do they make bolts like that? autism ZX spectrum fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 00:21
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Nubile Hillock posted:Just noticed the padlock by the sway bar bushing. What the gently caress. It kinda looks like what a cotter pin would look like if photographed head on and not bent back like it should be.
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Jul 22, 2013 00:35
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I mean more so that it's sitting in a groove and not a hole. The bolt ends and there's a groove for the pin. I've never seen that before.
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Jul 22, 2013 00:55
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Nubile Hillock posted:I mean more so that it's sitting in a groove and not a hole. The bolt ends and there's a groove for the pin. I've never seen that before. Because the guy doesn't know how to properly use a cotter pin. there's a hole through the bolt, locking it in the crown nut. You are supposed to put the entire pin through the hole, but this guy only put one of the legs through with the other leg over the top of the nut. As installed, that bitch could just wiggle out. The suspension won't last long enough for that to happen.
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Jul 22, 2013 00:58
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Carteret posted:Because the guy doesn't know how to properly use a cotter pin. there's a hole through the bolt, locking it in the crown nut. You are supposed to put the entire pin through the hole, but this guy only put one of the legs through with the other leg over the top of the nut. As installed, that bitch could just wiggle out. The suspension won't last long enough for that to happen. Oh yeah. I don't know why my explanation made sense in my head, but you're right.
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Jul 22, 2013 01:13
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Boat posted:I know this would move into the massive effortpost realm, but if you could take each of those suspension pictures, and break down what's wrong in each of them and why, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who would enjoy the gently caress out of such a post. I can try, but I'm sure I'll miss some things.  1. that's a loving dana 35. Worst axle ever, it's a pile of poo poo even in a small SUV. 2. that goofy rear end "truss" that is actually just a piece of flat stock loosely pulled around the bottom of the diff housing and sloppily welded to the lower control arm mounts is absolutely worthless. 3. the lower control arm mounts themselves are a bodged together fugly mass of scrap metal that ought to be ripped off and replaced 4. the upper control arm mount is just as bad. There might be another hiding behind that abortion of a panhard rod mount but I can't tell. 5. the braces from the top of the axle tube to the UCA mount are a loving disaster, one of them has notches through the vertical webs which will severely reduce its strength. Both of them do, now that I look at it The best part: the notches don't appear to actually exist for any valid reason. I have no idea why they were cut.6. that panhard rod mount abortion thing that looks like someone blew snot all over it instead of welding it. Oh, and it's haphazardly booger welded to the half assed strap-under-axle "truss" thing, but inexplicably bolted over the diff cover, and also another piece booger welded across the diff cover with a hole blown through it by O/A torch to get at the fill plug. Yeah, good job shitlord, you still aren't going to be able to get the cover off to drain it, didn't think of that did you? Jesus. 7. I just noticed this. The upper control arm may or may not actually have a bushing in it, and the through bolt is looser than a 90 year old hooker, the washer is flapping around (and appears oversized) and it's double nutted for no good reason.  8. the frame side panhard rod mount is another "incest and bestiality spawned hick with an O/A torch"-fabbed disaster. I'm not even sure they cleaned the slag off before stick welding it in place. It appears to be in single shear, and I guarandamntee you they didn't think about how much of the bolt shank should be unthreaded or take anything of the sort into account when designing it. It appears to be a piece of flat stock, so it'll twist and flap around if any force is applied to it. 9. what in sweet merciful christ is with that random chunk of what appears to be stainless flat stock on the left side of the diff housing, haphazardly booger welded to the half assed upper control arm mount brace and the quarter-assed fuckstick-fabbed "truss" strapping on the bottom? I don't even know. 10. those shock absorbers are at a pretty extreme angle, if they were ever intended for this vehicle, it is probably now severely underdamped. 11. it sure looks like his control arm angles are horrible. In fact it appears that the uppers have the frame side mount BELOW the lower control arm frame side mounts. That's going to either keep the suspension from working at all, or put an incredible amount of stress on the mounts, or cause severe pinion angle change as the suspension cycles, or all of the above, I'm not sure as I can't quite visualize how he has it set up.  1. those "lower control arms" (I use this term very loosely here) appear to be extremely underbuilt. 2. I just noticed this, it looks like there's two sets of shocks. One horribly angled forward and inward (that's problem #10 from the last picture) and one vertical.3. that airbag is probably not very happy right now. And I can't tell if it's bolted in place at the bottom or slapdash tack welded. I'm guessing the latter, given this idiot's propensity for doing the wrong thing. 4. is that plywood used as the floor?!  1. I really want to know what's with that rope. I fear it is an integral component of the suspension. 2. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha those exhaust hangars 3. yeah, you can definitely see the control arm angles are incredifucked here. That exhaust tubing looking thing (it may actually be exhaust tubing! put nothing beyond this idiot) at about a 5 degree downward slope behind the driveshaft and left muffler is the upper control arm. The square beam thing in the extreme foreground at the lower right is the right lower control arm, and the bottom flange of the airbag tells you everything you need to know about the angle of the other lower control arm. That means the control arms either mount on approximately the same plane at the body end (aka no vertical separation) or are even inverted (upper mount below lower mount, negative vertical separation) one of which is merely terrible and the other being a crime against humanity.  1. that's part of a pressed sheetmetal XJ stock lower control arm he's cut off and used as a bushing sleeve for his control arm. This is just plain turrible. 2. it appears he's mounted it using a large bolt through the frame, an oversize nut slid down it as a spacer, the control arm bushing, then a random chunk of 3/16" mild steel plate, a washer and a nut. In fact, the 3/16" plate is booger butt welded to a piece of 1/8" plate, which is bent over and explosive diarrhea snot welded to the frame. This is a sad attempt at a "double shear" mounting which achieves absolutely nothing except giving me a pounding headache.  The same idiot-fabbed control arms. Except in this case you can see he's attached the upper control arm mounts (on an XJ, which the front axle was clearly donated by, they would have their own arms to their own upper mount points on the chassis) via what appear to be pieces of 3/4" steel water pipe to the tops of the subpar lower control arms. This means his suspension design isn't a 4-link, it's a radius arm. Not a problem on a street/track truck really, but the execution is horrible and weak as usual.  1. you can clearly see the control arm angles cross here. So yeah, he's going to have severe binding issues when his suspension attempts to cycle. It will most likely tear the weakest mounts (want to start a betting pool?) off whatever they're "welded" to. I use that term in its loosest most permissive sense. 2. the upper control arm (it's definitely a 3 link suspension on the rear) is clearly two separate pieces of tube that have been butt welded and plug welded onto a sleeve. Based on the color of the two pieces it appears the rear one is rigid metallic conduit and the front one is black steel water pipe. Neither of these is a wise choice for a critical suspension linkage. 3. his driveshaft angles are abysmal. Pinion angle is nearly straight, rear transmission output shaft angle is somewhat downward (probably the usual 5-7 degrees) and the angles taken up by each U-joint are badly mismatched. He'll probably have severe driveshaft vibrations at anything over about 35mph.  1. tack welding monstrosity of a frame-side "coil mount" 2. what the poo poo is going on with all that crap hanging off the upper control arm bushing fork? It appears there's some standard-issue booger welds holding that lovely piece of steel pipe "upper control arm" portion of the radius arm to the bushing fork, but what I am really intrigued by is the splattery booger welds around the head of the bolt going through the bushing. That doesn't say anything good about this. 3. extreme left side of picture, brake line is zip tied to the body. Wonder how long before vibration causes the metal brake line to fatigue and he loses his brakes? e: it's not ziptied, that's just a piece of metal attached to the frame somehow. The brake line is just floating around in there, wearing against the edge of the frame rail and vibrating until it fatigues and breaks off.  1. steering angles are incredibly bad. Drag link appears to be 8-10" longer than track bar and the track bar has a much, much higher angle. He's going to have severe bumpsteer (when the front suspension compresses during a hard stop, the wheels will swerve one direction or the other, not sure which, unless he compensates by swerving the other way.) 2. more steering angles are incredibly bad. In this case, the drag link is lifted up so much at the frame end that the tie rod is inclined as well. What this means is that when the suspension compresses during a hard stop, the wheels will toe out significantly, and when the front rises under acceleration, the wheels will toe in, probably by several degrees. 3. those coils. Need I say more? Holy. loving. poo poo. 4. track bar mounting is abysmal. And what the gently caress is with that padlock? 5. again with the two sets of shock absorbers. 6. you can see here (especially on the right side of the axle, left side of the picture) that something is rotten in the state of those lower control arm bushing mounts. They appear to be a large eye bolt with the bushing hammered and probably tack welded into them. 7. the tie rod end crown nut thingus that Nubile Hillock mentioned. I can't tell what's going on with that at all.  1. the booger welds holding that tube from the lower control arm behind the shock to the upper control arm mount on that axle housing are particularly offensive. They're painted black and the camera still picked up on them. 2. look how incredibly spindly that giant eye-bolt LCA bushing mount/LCA length adjuster is. If that doesn't fold during hard braking or when hitting a pothole, the regular old hex nut I guarantee it's threaded into will rip the subpar snot-welds loose from the plate that's been spatter welded onto the end of those retarded dual-C-channel lower control arms. 3. you can really see the horrible welds around the head of that bolt for the upper control arm bushing fork here. 4. you can see the two sets of shocks here, too. He appears to have put the set to the left (the one with that hosed up red boot) on upside down.   1. Oh god, you can totally see the hex nut for that stupid LCA bushing eye-bolt holder thingus here. I can't even see any welds, and it goes into the middle web of the two booger welded together C channels that comprise the lower control arm, so I'm not really sure what is holding that abortion together aside from hope, dreams, and luck. 2. this side's brake line isn't even ziptied to the frame. c'mon, son! 3. the same offensively bad booger welding keeping the upper control arm pipe thing in place. 4. more tack welds holding severely angled coil springs loosely in place on the corner of a frame rail. I can't believe this hasn't thrown a spring somewhere while attempting to pull out of the driveway. 5. speaking of coil springs, the bottom of those coil springs completely doesn't fit the coil perches on that axle. They're haphazardly perched there and the only thing keeping them in place is the phase of the moon and perhaps the third letter of the last name of the last lottery winner in his town. Either of those changes and that spring is making a break for freedom. 6. another upside down shock.There's 44 horribly hosed reasons that suspension is a pile of crap. I'm sure there are more, I just don't have pictures to see them in. And like I said, I'm sure I missed some things. kastein fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 01:22
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I love you kastein. That was hilarious and educational.
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Jul 22, 2013 01:52
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jesus christ, looking at that last picture I realized the shock mounted to the lower control arm is mounted in single shear. Not really a problem if the tab it was bolted to was properly triangulated/braced, but making that mount double shear would be as easy as making another tab, slapping it on the other side under the bolt head, and welding it down. No excuse, goddamnit. e: that being said, it's so close to the control arm that the washer will probably hit the control arm and stop the mount tab from flexing under compression. It'll still flex back and forth and metal fatigue when the frontend lifts, though. Going off this guy's fabrication skills, I'd bet he will slap an ugly booger weld on there bridging the control arm to the edge of the washer and call it a mount. kastein fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 01:55
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Still want to drive that abortion over a speedhump quickly and hear the noise as the suspension collapses in hilarious fashion
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Jul 22, 2013 03:10
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You Am I posted:Still want to drive that abortion over a speedhump quickly and hear the noise as the suspension collapses in hilarious fashion By remote control, maybe. I don't want to be impaled through the plywood floor by some abortion of a control arm propelled by a spring freeing itself from a lovely booger weld.
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Jul 22, 2013 03:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Phurqwcgw4&t=55s This is what happens when you undo that padlock.  Former co-worker. I doubt it was done for a laugh, but I kinda hope it was. bitchtard fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 04:01
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kastein, that was amazing, I'm so glad I asked. What I don't get is how someone can be well-versed enough to know what a panhard bar and a 3-link suspension are and how they should function, and then make that, step back and say "yup, job well done, better post this beaut to the internet!" That 2-piece double-butt-welded "double-shear" bracket for the lower control arms is just mindblowing.
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Jul 22, 2013 04:41
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kastein posted:1. I really want to know what's with that rope. I fear it is an integral component of the suspension. I'm hoping it's some sort of limiting strap, in their mind.
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Jul 22, 2013 06:32
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Boat posted:kastein, that was amazing, I'm so glad I asked. The pics were grabbed by somebody else who spotted it in a parking lot. Here is the original thread: http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243025
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Jul 22, 2013 07:16
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kastein posted:That's the front differential, the rear has a driveshaft.  Oops. I only saw the one photo and all I could think was "at least it can't actually go anywhere...yet".
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Jul 22, 2013 12:18
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Mitchard posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Phurqwcgw4&t=55s The exhaust is moronic, and execution is pretty sloppy, but I am kinda digging the raked tail-end idea. Mighty Horse fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 16:19
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kastein posted:I can try, but I'm sure I'll miss some things. This was incredible. How on earth does something like this happen? Jim-Bob buys his first welder and decides to set up shop? Code Jockey fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 16:54
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Mighty Horse posted:The exhaust is moronic, and execution is pretty sloppy, but I am kinda digging the raked tail-end idea. It's a normal exhaust, those are just some funky old tail lights. It's just a bad picture. What always gets me with these kinds of ideas is that everything else on the pickup remains perfectly square. Of course if you were to carry the idea throughout you'd have something like that Camaro truck posted a few pages ago.
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Jul 22, 2013 17:06
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Mitchard posted:It's a normal exhaust Did you miss the 6 "pipes" (I guarantee they're not hooked up) sticking out of the bumper? Pretty sure that's what he's referring to.
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Jul 22, 2013 17:21
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Fucknag posted:Did you miss the 6 "pipes" (I guarantee they're not hooked up) sticking out of the bumper? Pretty sure that's what he's referring to. Mitchard posted:those are just some funky old tail lights. It's just a bad picture.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:10
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They look like Impala tail lights.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:10
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Where's OxBrain? I found a Fiestamino in the wild.  And the bed detail: 
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Jul 22, 2013 20:07
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dubzee posted:They look like Impala tail lights. I'm sure this is what they were supposed to be. I'm not going to say it would make the look -work-, but if they blacked out / removed the stockish lenses from the fenders and put, I dunno, some sort of taillight cones on the bumper lights, it'd probably look less confusing. You can see the actual exhaust pipes underneath the bumper. You at least used to be able to buy a kit that looked more Impala-ish, I've seen a couple trucks with them but that fad seemed to have passed in the '90s. This was hand in hand with putting Corvette lights on your teal/magenta S-10 to complement your jauntily-rotated tailgate-mounted license plate.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:47
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This is as close as I could get.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:53
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRIsHRHNU5k Weird dude, weirder car.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:30
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IDK I think it sums up the perception of Lamborghini owners pretty well.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:40
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 Who needs tires?
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Jul 23, 2013 08:52
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 I first noticed the rusty painted wheels and the dumb stickers, but the joy of this is the giant exhaust barely attached to the underside of the car at a weird angle. Driven by two women with identical fake tans, hair extensions and giant sunglasses.
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Jul 23, 2013 11:38
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kastein posted:Fascinating deconstruction of an off-road abomination. The only thing I want to add here, is that those double C-channel lower control arms? Those are the stock control arms for that generation Suburban and Chevy/GMC pickup. They're called "truck arms" and actually work very well in the application for which they were intended. NASCAR cars use a variation of them, and there's a company that makes kits to put them in other cars. They give you some very good handling characteristics and ride quality in a street car. The air bags in the rear are in the stock soil spring location. Now, on this truck... They were never intended for any kind of lift. They SHOULDN'T need upper control arms. They're supposed to attach solidly to the rear axle on pads like a leaf spring. That's why the moron had to add the eye bolts to the front ones - there's no provision for a bushing at that end. The control arms are supposed to twist when the axle moves only at one end, so no anti-sway bar is needed, just the panhard link. That upper link would be unnecessary if the rearend was mounted to the truck arms correctly (it's not - boy, is it not.) I get where the guy was going trying to use the truck arms in the front - some of the big-lift monsters use fabricated arms like that. His skills an knowledge just let him down. I have no idea why it never occurred to his guy to cut the coil mounts off the axle and move them inboard. Or use a bit of pipe for a frame mount for the coils. If it had originally been a 4x4 Suburban, I think it would have had leaf springs all around, but the truck arms and coils are stock (in the rear) for the 2-wheel drive. Also, I'm not sure exactly what the gently caress he's doing with the body, but I think he's moved the rear wheel well rearward, and the only thing I can come up with on the rear roof section is that he's trying to make it removable like a Blazer, possibly even fitting a Blazer rear shell. Also, there shouldn't be a rear door handle on the driver's side, because there's no door there. That generation Suburban only had a rear door on the passenger side. I drove my dad's 72 GMC Suburban for about a year. I really liked that truck. edit: yeah, Google image search confirms he's moved the rear wheel wells back the width of the gap in front of them. The axle should be further forward on the arms, but not that much, so I'm not sure what that's about. Darchangel fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 12:02
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Beach Bum posted:By remote control, maybe. I don't want to be impaled through the plywood floor by some abortion of a control arm propelled by a spring freeing itself from a lovely booger weld. I was gonna say that plywood is pretty strong poo poo so you'd be fine but I think we both know he cheaped out and bought some lovely 1/4" low end Chinese ply rather than beefy 18mm Baltic Birch. So yeah, I'm very much with you on not wanting to sit in that shitpile as it collapses and shoots metal everywhere.
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Jul 23, 2013 12:33
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Wolfsbane posted:
Is that a baby stroller in the back too?
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Jul 23, 2013 15:38
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From Facebook: "You know, Larry, there's good days at the Dragon, and there's bad days at the Dragon and this Florida boy just had a really bad day..." 
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Jul 23, 2013 16:45
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What did that used to be? From the kink in the rear window I'm guessing BMW but the whole rear end makes no sense for one. S13 maybe?
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Jul 23, 2013 16:51
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