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miscellaneous14 posted:After hearing about it, I impulse-bought the Vergil DLC while it was on sale, and christ he's way more fun than Dante. I mean it's still pretty easy for the most part, but if they were capable of this, how did they gently caress up the main campaign so bad? Vergil is pretty great because he has more variety across his normal/angel/demon modes (Dante's weapons are mostly different variations on the same type of attack with a slider for Speed <----> Power) and he has more neat tricks you can pull (Trick Up/Down, Perfect attacks) and his Devil Trigger is infinitely better and offers more choices. His main problem is that his attacks don't chain together very well and several are flat-out broken (hey there, Atomic).
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Jul 20, 2013 01:19
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A group of men sat down at a table and discussed what is popular among young men today. Dubstep, hoodies, and profanity. Ten years earlier, a group of game designers sat down at a table and decided what kind of character would be really fun to play as.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:33
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I really liked playing as Vergil in the first loop, then I tried out the harder difficulties and soon learned that spamming JT Atomics is basically the only efficient way to get through the encounters.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:16
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DmC Dante fucks lousy strippers, so edgy and cool.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:21
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notZaar posted:I really liked playing as Vergil in the first loop, then I tried out the harder difficulties and soon learned that spamming JT Atomics is basically the only efficient way to get through the encounters. I dunno, I don't think is true at all. You can cleave right through VMD without needing to touch JT Atomic. It's certainly the easiest way.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:32
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ImpAtom posted:If only we understood how cool New Dante was. If only. He's just... just too cool for me man. He has SEX and uses CURSE WORDS. It blows my mind. I can't take it. I am literally an adult from 1970s teen rebellion movie. What has always confused me about New Dante hate is that the Old Dante was just as much of a poor attempt at being awesome. White-haired bishie with the worst kind of action hero dialogue and cutscene after cutscene of flashy fights and gun-fu and blah blah blah. Both Dante's are constructed from nothing but cliched ideas of what is "cool." The result is that neither of them are remotely awesome and you just have to pick the lesser of two evils or maybe actually try to find semblances of personality or character beneath the mountains of superficial garbage. In that way I liked new Dante more. I found nothing at all interesting or endearing about Old Dante. He isn't as unbearable in DMC1 but I started with 3 and I just can't stand him. People were talking about Bayonetta and I guess the original creator of DMC left after 1? It really shows.
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Jul 21, 2013 09:57
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The thing is that the older games didn't take themselves so dreadfully seriously. DMC 1, 3 and 4 established Old Dante as this huge dork who subscribes to what he thinks is the definition of cool so completely it sort of wraps around and is kind of cool. New Dante is just a prick who's trying to be edgy in a game that doesn't even attmept to paint that in a positive light and assumes you come in with a twelve-year-old's mindset that that kind of stuff is radical. Regardless of new or old Dante, gameplay-wise DmC commits the crime of being associated with three words that shouldn't be anywhere near Devil May Cry: it's easy, tedious and boring.
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Jul 21, 2013 10:14
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SurrealityCheck posted:I dunno, I don't think is true at all. You can cleave right through VMD without needing to touch JT Atomic. It's certainly the easiest way. Is there a notable damage difference between the Angel mode launcher and Volcano/Atomic? The one that's a ground spin attack when uncharged and lifts you + enemies into the air when charged? I would've used it more if enemies on VMD didn't have so much HP and fighting multiple big guys wasn't so annoying.
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Jul 21, 2013 10:14
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Dante in DMC1-4 wasn't cool because of what he said or how he dressed, it was his actions that made him cool. Those games were packed with fun moves and cool FMV action cinematography. DmC Dante has one cool scene, getting dressed in slow motion through a trailer. After that he's just a lackey for Vergil with all the personality of a painted piece of plywood.
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Jul 22, 2013 03:34
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Old Dante was fun because he has a lot of crazy action scenes combined with his goofy one-liners and fun combat. It's really easy to like a character when every demon in the world wants to kill him and he's like "Hey, I'm just gonna ride on this missile and eat pizza." Dante's a more... how do I put this? Spider-Man kind of cool. He's goofy as hell and says cheesy stuff, but he's still a really cool dude because of what he does and the cheesy stuff he says is cheesy enough to be endearing. New Dante is ridiculously tryhard edgy and doesn't have a lot in the way of... fun. Most of DmC is spent talking about Mundus, demons, Sparda, blah blah blah blah blah. There are too many cutscenes not focusing on Dante despite the fact he is the main character and when some do focus on him, he's not really ever doing anything important. He's also not interesting to watch, like at all. When he gets a new weapon, what does he do with it? loving nothing. For a series that has had a continuous tradition of showing off your new weapons and the cool stuff they can do, DmC literally did not care and decided it's okay for Dante to not ever show off in cutscenes. Then again, this series has also had a tradition of manual lock-on and this new one decided not to follow that either. Like O. Dante isn't the deepest characters, but he's a character everyone can enjoy. He's goofy, does crazy stunts, says cheesy one-liners, and is a pretty chilled out dude in his off time. N. Dante isn't as easy for most people to like, he swears a lot, has a bad attitude, makes a lot of jokes only immature teenagers could really find funny, and is nowhere near as colorful as O. Dante a character people have loved for over a decade and became a video game icon for good reasons. ...That's a lot of words for a character who isn't even that deep, but DMC is one of my favorite game series and I feel like I can throw in my two cents.
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Jul 22, 2013 03:58
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NikkolasKing posted:What has always confused me about New Dante hate is that the Old Dante was just as much of a poor attempt at being awesome. White-haired bishie with the worst kind of action hero dialogue and cutscene after cutscene of flashy fights and gun-fu and blah blah blah. Old Dante, like or dislike, existed in his own bubble. Some people thought he was cool, some people thought he was funny and some people thought he sucked, but at no point did it seem like it was remotely interested in changing anyone's opinion on the character. Ironically, that was probably the 'coolest' thing about the character. It was self-confidence enough to be stupid and not care. He would do ridiculous things without a hint of shame or irony. Maybe he was an rear end in a top hat, maybe he was a doofus, whatever. He leapt into whatever he was with both feet and reveled in it. The developers were confident enough in their concept that they did whatever they wanted. New Dante, in comparison, really really desperately seems to want you to think he's cool. He's a total rebel who bangs hot chicks, curses, smokes, but not in a way that is too abrasive that you might actually be offended by him. In comparison to DMC1/3/4 Dante, where they clearly doesn't care if you think he's cool, DmC Dante really comes across as the developers being afraid that people will think he's not cool. It's lacking confidence (despite the character himself being filled to the brim with confidence.) DMC2 Dante has a somewhat similar problem. The developers are afraid of being laughed at or afraid of being uncool or afraid of being considered "silly." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 04:15
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Ya know, in spite of how often his boozing and stripper banging is brought up, it's ridiculously minor point in the game. As in, I'm pretty sure it's only in the opening and then never again. (unless you count him meeting an old gently caress buddy in LIlith's club) From a completely story-based perspective, this is all a self-destructive act. Dante has a devil may care attitude (ha) and doesn't give a poo poo about humans or demons. He's just kinda waiting to die during the next demon attack. Then he gets his memory back and becomea a more straight-up hero as opposed to the reluctant hero he once was. Basically his initial "edgy" actions are painted in a negative light as he abandons them once he actually gets motivated and becomes something resembling a noble figure. It's pretty standard stuff and my only complaint about it was that we actually didn't see enough of the alcoholic, sex-having Dante. Stress how listless and pointless his life was as a greater contrast to how heroic he will become ya know? But really, I just think the constant talk about him drinking and loving girls is blown out of proportion. Its about as important as Vergil being a billionaire computer nerd ie. not very. . Sex_Ferguson posted:New Dante is ridiculously tryhard edgy and doesn't have a lot in the way of... fun. Most of DmC is spent talking about Mundus, demons, Sparda, blah blah blah blah blah. There are too many cutscenes not focusing on Dante despite the fact he is the main character and when some do focus on him, he's not really ever doing anything important. He's also not interesting to watch, like at all. When he gets a new weapon, what does he do with it? loving nothing. For a series that has had a continuous tradition of showing off your new weapons and the cool stuff they can do, DmC literally did not care and decided it's okay for Dante to not ever show off in cutscenes. Then again, this series has also had a tradition of manual lock-on and this new one decided not to follow that either. I noticed the bit about cutscenes too. Old DMC was very much about Anime Cutscenes where Dante showed off. DmC meanwhile left most of the action in the gameplay. Yahtzee once complained that it was great watching Dante do all this amazingly awesome stuff in cutscenes but he wanted to play and do all that awesome stuff. In DmC, you are the one doing all the moves and cutscenes are not there just to have Dante dance around being all super-badass. Dante in DmC is the brawn to Vergil's brain. I mean, the series has always been big on the whole "they're brothers but they're totally not alike" thing. DmC keeps with the spirit of that, having Vergil be a planner and strategist while Dante is actually the muscle that goes out and executes those plans. Old Vergil was basically supposed to be perfect and he's an even more blatant attempt at being ultra-cool than Old Dante was. He's a stronger fighter than Dante, he's smarter than Dante, he's not a goofball like Dante, he's not a "straight-edge hero" like Dante - you get the drift. I enjoyed the fact each brother in DmC had their own kinda niche and thus they had areas where they were weaker. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 15:48
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NikkolasKing posted:I noticed the bit about cutscenes too. Old DMC was very much about Anime Cutscenes where Dante showed off. DmC meanwhile left most of the action in the gameplay. Yahtzee once complained that it was great watching Dante do all this amazingly awesome stuff in cutscenes but he wanted to play and do all that awesome stuff. In DmC, you are the one doing all the moves and cutscenes are not there just to have Dante dance around being all super-badass. Just want to point that you can do pretty awesome looking stuff with a mild grasp of the basic mechanics on the old games and once you master the gameplay the things you can do utterly eclipsed anything showed on the cutscenes (if you want proof just search for the True Style videos on YT) DmC on the other hand is mechanical and repetitive, the game feels slow, with the lack of manual lock on is really easy to mess your combo hitting random enemies and worse, the animations doesn't even look that cool. The Vergil DLC is more in line with the old games style though.
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Jul 23, 2013 15:59
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toasterwarrior posted:Is there a notable damage difference between the Angel mode launcher and Volcano/Atomic? The one that's a ground spin attack when uncharged and lifts you + enemies into the air when charged? I would've used it more if enemies on VMD didn't have so much HP and fighting multiple big guys wasn't so annoying. It does significantly less damage and is more awkward to use, yeah.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:02
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NikkolasKing, you seem to pay very little attention to the actual games you're trying to make a point for here, because Dante in DmC does a lot of shitheelish things later in the game too. On top of that the early DMC's are filled to the brim with stylish gameplay, anyone could tell you that the cutscenes are not the stars of the games, they just add to the experience and character of Dante. You are looking for characterization in N. Dante that does not exist and it shows what with you saying crap like "Oh well he's only like that in the beginning of the game and he's really a noble hero by end game," which he's not. Also the chemistry between Vergil and Dante in DMC3 and DmC are completely different and works better in DMC3, a game that doesn't even have a great story. I'd say more, but I'm assuming you're trolling as you're saying such blatantly contrarian things that have evidence to prove them wrong.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:30
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Sex_Ferguson posted:NikkolasKing, you seem to pay very little attention to the actual games you're trying to make a point for here, because Dante in DmC does a lot of shitheelish things later in the game too. On top of that the early DMC's are filled to the brim with stylish gameplay, anyone could tell you that the cutscenes are not the stars of the games, they just add to the experience and character of Dante. You are looking for characterization in N. Dante that does not exist and it shows what with you saying crap like "Oh well he's only like that in the beginning of the game and he's really a noble hero by end game," which he's not. Also the chemistry between Vergil and Dante in DMC3 and DmC are completely different and works better in DMC3, a game that doesn't even have a great story. Then prove me wrong. Start of DmC Dante: Drunken, apathetic jackass Pretty sure he expressed no great love for humans, even if he hated demons. End of DmC Dante: Killed the monster mind controlling humanity through drinks, killed the monster mind controlling humanity through television, killed the Demon Lord to free humanity from demonic tyranny, Refused his brother's offer to rule humanity in his place and would have killed said brother to protect the humans. It's really blatant stuff and if you missed it, that's not my problem. The difference between Dante at the start of the game and him at the end of the game is not even remotely subtle. Hell, the difference between Dante pre-getting his memories back and post-getting his memories back is pretty noticeable. And of course the relationship was different between Dante and Vergil in 3. I already said old Vergil was very different from new Vergil in that exact post. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 17:07
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NikkolasKing posted:Then prove me wrong. So he does a bunch of generic, joyless good-guy stuff because he spends most of the game being told "go ye, and stab this dude" by his badly-dressed older brother, and then stabs the brother for vague "you do a bad thing" Reasons. Someone throw him a loving parade. The older Dante was given only the vaguest of instructions for cutting loose in his games, if any, and then treated everything that followed like a vacation from all his lounging around and pizza-chomping. His entire half of the plot in DMC4 has him destroying ultimate evils with the same air you'd expect one to have when ordering a margarita. Sure, the world's being saved, but that's sort of a side-effect of Dante (and, by extension, the player) having a good time. New Dante just trudges from one pre-defined objective to the next, and does a lot of tedious sneering while he does it (seriously, the nasty, rubbery facial expressions in that game do not endear the characters to anyone with sense).
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Jul 23, 2013 17:19
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Oxxidation posted:So he does a bunch of generic, joyless good-guy stuff because he spends most of the game being told "go ye, and stab this dude" by his badly-dressed older brother, and then stabs the brother for vague "you do a bad thing" Reasons. Someone throw him a loving parade. Hell, his plot line in Nero's half was just "I'm going to see just how pissed off I can make my maybe-nephew and maybe stop Demon-Angel Pope along the way. I dunno, Trish is doing that, I think...."
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Jul 23, 2013 17:25
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Oxxidation posted:So he does a bunch of generic, joyless good-guy stuff because he spends most of the game being told "go ye, and stab this dude" by his badly-dressed older brother, and then stabs the brother for vague "you do a bad thing" Reasons. Someone throw him a loving parade. The argument was about objective fact - whether or not Dante had character development in DmC. He did. If you or anyone else found it interesting is irrelevant. I just don't appreciate being called a liar or a troll. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 17:32
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I agree with NK on this one. DmC Dante does undergo a change in character - he's not the same person finishing as he is at the start, though how well this change was handled/paced, and the specifics of what aspects of his personality change are debatable. (IMO he goes from being an unlikable prick to a plain boring one).
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Jul 23, 2013 17:44
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NikkolasKing posted:The argument was about objective fact - whether or not Dante had character development in DmC. He did. If you or anyone else found it interesting is irrelevant. I just don't appreciate being called a liar or a troll. I wouldn't call that development. He kind of just switches from rear end in a top hat to hero dante the second he gets his demon powers. There's no real arc. there's change yes, but no development.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I wouldn't call that development. He kind of just switches from rear end in a top hat to hero dante the second he gets his demon powers. There's no real arc. there's change yes, but no development. I dunno, that argument feels like it's stepping too much into pedantry. He does show a sympathetic side when dealing with whats-her-face, contrived as it may be. Jarring and poorly done, sure; but NT did have an arc in mind when plotting out the story. EDIT: I'm throwing this out here, but upon reflection, I think the biggest reason why DmC Dante falls flat is because his interactions with the other characters are flat. People have a point about him blindly following Vergil, and what little characterization he could've gotten from him deciding to fight back at the end comes more from his affection towards Kat and outrage at how Vergil treats her rather than a direct confrontation between their philosophies. It was a plot with potential, but Kat's presence overshadows what could've been an interesting face-off between "anarchy" and "authority". In DMC3, you have Dante as a rough-and-tumble guy with a penchant for flashiness, compared to Vergil who is one sleek motherfucker. Their conflict isn't over Hell breaking into the world; it's fundamentally about their ties to Sparda and the invasion is only tangentially related to it. Their first battle ends with Dante getting his rear end kicked and Vergil admonishing him about rejecting their heritage, but ironically ends up unleashing Dante's innate power. The second fight begins with Vergil breaking from his ice-cold facade after he finds out his blood alone isn't enough to open the gate, and Dante ends up drawing with him. Right before the final duel, they team up against Arkham, who fails to usurp Sparda's power. The last battle shows that Vergil is desperate to identify himself as Sparda's son through his actions throughout the game and Dante ticks him off by calling him out on it. In fact, the head-on charge at the end makes it a point that Vergil is using Force Edge, Sparda's sword, instead of his own Yamato, and upon losing to Dante's Rebellion he leaves it in favour of his half of the amulet before falling into the abyss. It's a consistent theme throughout that Dante gives no fucks about his vanished father and dislikes him for that, and that Vergil is the complete opposite. From initial loss to draw to victory, Dante gets better by sticking to his guns (  ) while Vergil ends up outmatched simply because he wanted to be his father instead of himself. Pithy and cheesy, but it worked well.
toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 17:52
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I still don't get how they managed to make the story so lovely. It seems they were pretty much given carte blanche on the story aspect, and all they could seriously come up with is an extremely loose retread of DMC1 and 3, They Live, and a Futurama Episode.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:36
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Pesky Splinter posted:I still don't get how they managed to make the story so lovely. It seems they were pretty much given carte blanche on the story aspect, and all they could seriously come up with is an extremely loose retread of DMC1 and 3, They Live, and a Futurama Episode. The short answer: It's Ninja Theory.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:37
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Oh Snapple! posted:The short answer: It's Ninja Theory. Well, yeah, there is that...but even so, there were so many avenues they could have gone down or interesting things they could have done. And the end result is a lazy mish-mash, that is only better than DMC2's story on account of being (barely!) comprehensible. What's more amazing is that it was done in earnest too. At least Capcom were there, somewhat, in the gameplay area, so it wasn't the total trainwreck we were all expecting.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:51
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NikkolasKing posted:I just don't appreciate being called a liar or a troll. I apologize, I'm just so jaded from the DmC thread arguments that it's really hard to tell sometimes. Anyways, yeah Dante does go through some change as a character, but it doesn't ultimately change that he's honestly still an rear end in a top hat by end game. He punches out a human bouncer who's just doing his job, mocking Mundus for the murder of his son, and helps Vergil unleash hell upon humans, the people he's supposed to be protecting. Dante's a lot less of a dick by the end game compared to who he is at the start, but it's not handled well and whatever attempts they make to have you care about the character fall flat. The biggest problems with his character development, is that in favor of showing off other characters in cutscenes, they completely ignore Dante at points or don't make him seem like his own person. Throughout the game he's just following Vergil's orders, never thinking once for himself until he finally fights Vergil at the end. The most resistance he shows towards Vergil is when Vergil kills Lilith and even then he's just slightly pissed and it's all bridge under the water and they're making dick comparisons a few chapters later. There is no character arc, there is no increasing distrust, it's just "Hey I'm evil now." "Okay, I guess we've gotta fight then, jerk." Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 18:56
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I agree wholly with everything you said and what others have said. I like the idea of DmC's story more than I like the actual story itself. The premise, the general outline of the characters, it all really clicked with me. I think if it had been written better, it could have been pretty good. Take for instance Vergil's betraying Mundus and killing Lilith and the baby. Dante is clearly upset by this (you can see it in his lack of response and awkward body language when Mundus calmly asks him "why did you kill my child?") but he and Vergil never even have a short argument about it. Just a minute long cutscene of them shouting at each other with stufff like "we have to do this!" and Dante countering with "but we're stooping to their level!" and so-on. LIke I said, I would have welcomed a greater focus on reluctant hero Dante who drank and didn't give a gently caress about anything. His change was too abrupt and it's not surprising to me that people missed his development. You blink and you missed it. Overall, everything in the game happens too fast. It probably would have been better if it was at least two hours longer and could properly extend both Dante's and Vergil's growth. Also, I thought Old Vergil's thing was he was really traumatized by what happened to his mother. His subsequent obsession with his demon side and power was a way to deal with that. I should note that, of the old games, I only really hated Dante. I was okay with all the other characters and stuff.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:34
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I don't think it necessarily needed to be longer, so much as paced better, and (as you said) better written. As an example, in the space of two levels, we go from "I have no clue about my demonic heritage or my twin brother - I don't trust you guys" to "Oh yeah, guess I remember everything now. Okay cool. I'll do everything you say, bro." It's something that should have been more spread out throughout the game. Same for Dante's "I want to protect the humans" thing - he clearly doesn't give a poo poo about regular humans other than Kat - and that's only because she is Generic Love Interest. Honestly it's easier to say the whole thing needs a rewrite, rather than list off the countless examples of where they could have done better.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:51
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NikkolasKing posted:I agree wholly with everything you said and what others have said. I like the idea of DmC's story more than I like the actual story itself. The premise, the general outline of the characters, it all really clicked with me. I think if it had been written better, it could have been pretty good. Not to mention Vergil's actions put Kat in serious danger, and causes thousands of deaths. I was really confused when there was no scene where Dante chews him out, or at least starts doubting his brother's intentions. The game makes it very clear that Kat is the main inspiration for Dante's change in his attitude towards humans, and that scene made it really obvious that Vergil doesn't give a poo poo about her or other humans. I really hated Kat's design, by the way. She looked like an alien with that freaky face. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 21:01
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Listening to the DmC OST right now, I will definitely concede the classic series had better music. DmC had some cool tracks I thought but man, the metal was mostly awful. I liked a lot of the electronic stuff though which is probably why I enjoyed Lilith's Club. But yeah, Capcom's action series tend to be overlooked when it comes to amazing music. Onimusha, DMC,...they had some of the best soundtracks on the PS2. Onimusha especially.
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Jul 24, 2013 03:38
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Renoistic posted:I really hated Kat's design, by the way. She looked like an alien with that freaky face. All of the characters had those Unreal Engine potato faces. That, in addition to how uninspired most of the monster designs are, really squandered a chance at doing something interesting with the grunge style, and the whole Order vs Anarchy theme of the real world and Limbo. The only time they really do anything neat with it is the whole visual design of the Mundus Spawn fight, and even then the boss itself is basically a giant sack of meat who's also a unborn demon baby because they had to be ~edgy~.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:00
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NikkolasKing posted:Listening to the DmC OST right now, I will definitely concede the classic series had better music. DmC had some cool tracks I thought but man, the metal was mostly awful. I liked a lot of the electronic stuff though which is probably why I enjoyed Lilith's Club. I really enjoyed the TV-station/prison and Lilith's club stages. They might not have been very "Devil May Cry" levels, but they sure were striking. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 09:26
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So are we going to talk about the possibility of a new DMC being announced tonight in 22 minutes? Itsuno has an announcement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_EcOKRp8g
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Sep 21, 2013 01:48
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RBX posted:So are we going to talk about the possibility of a new DMC being announced tonight in 22 minutes? Itsuno has an announcement. DmC2: By Double Helix.
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Sep 21, 2013 01:50
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Didnt expect this thread to come back! After all the bad news surrounding Dead Rising 3 (xbone exclusive, wants COD audience) Im too scared to see what more they could do to DMC.
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Sep 21, 2013 03:02
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I'm guessing nothing got announced since DmC
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Sep 21, 2013 04:28
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I tried searching around but I can't find anything other than news that Itsuno is announcing a game. Was there a reveal?
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Sep 21, 2013 04:32
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Didn't he go off to do Dragons Dogma? That was fairly successful so he's probably working on a sequel to that. DMC is dead folks, long live Platinum Games.
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Sep 21, 2013 04:35
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The game was Blade Fantasia. Yep. Maybe next year. If nothing after next year DMC is dead.
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Sep 21, 2013 08:52
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RBX posted:The game was Blade Fantasia. Yep. Mobile RPG. Good to see Capcoms got their act together.
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Sep 21, 2013 11:53
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