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Marlamaid Swordhand posted:Rush was going to be one of the two owners of the Rams had Dave Checketts not dropped him out of the bid and later his own bid. It was his controversial show and cackling racism that torpedoed the deal for him. He talks about it from time to time and likes to whine about how he was "CENSORED!  I can never get enough of that.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:52
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yes. O'Reilly IS that bad. This is the same guy who, after getting butchered in a debate over drug testing for welfare, pointed out that the drug addiction rate and unemployment rate were ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBER! OH MY GOOOOOOOD! Because it's virtually impossible for somebody to be a drug addict and have a job at the same time or impossible that a person without a job has never done drugs. I swear I quoted from The Corner before but I can't find my old post. David Simon absolutely destroys this notion near the end of the book and it's amazing. You can tell how angry he gets as he spends time writing and he just loses it near the end. It's fantastic and it's the perfect response to bullshit like that.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:26
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Zeroisanumber posted:It was his controversial show and cackling racism that torpedoed the deal for him. He talks about it from time to time and likes to whine about how he was "CENSORED! 
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Jul 24, 2013 01:48
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I dont quite understand why Jon Stewart is so cool with Bill OReilly. When OReilly is on the Daily Show, he usually takes it down two notches, and Stewart will rib him a little bit for being a hyperbolic shill. Its good and pretty professional (lending some credibility to Stewart's show), and recognizes that OReilly is playing a character on TV... but then you go watch OReilly's show, and his rhetoric is practically inciting violence and promotes some of the worst dogwhistle memes out there.
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Jul 24, 2013 02:14
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crusader_complex posted:I dont quite understand why Jon Stewart is so cool with Bill OReilly. When OReilly is on the Daily Show, he usually takes it down two notches, and Stewart will rib him a little bit for being a hyperbolic shill. Its good and pretty professional (lending some credibility to Stewart's show), and recognizes that OReilly is playing a character on TV... but then you go watch OReilly's show, and his rhetoric is practically inciting violence and promotes some of the worst dogwhistle memes out there. I think Jon Stewart is more concerned by peoples tones than arguments. Violent actions and words upset him but soothing tones and smiles disarm him. He's a big believer in everybody being an adult and bipartisan as the solution to everything.
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Jul 24, 2013 09:39
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katlington posted:I think Jon Stewart is more concerned by peoples tones than arguments. Violent actions and words upset him but soothing tones and smiles disarm him. He's a big believer in everybody being an adult and bipartisan as the solution to everything. This is what got me over the Daily Show and John Stewart in general that like most liberals hes more concerned with the tone of an argument, then the actual argument.
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Jul 24, 2013 09:59
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KomradeX posted:This is what got me over the Daily Show and John Stewart in general that like most liberals hes more concerned with the tone of an argument, then the actual argument. But tone is the problem. Show me one conservative who is making an argument other than 'IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME I AM PERSONALLY OFFENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!'. They don't. The words they say have no bearing what so ever on any issue they are talking about. It is identity politics and the biggest problem we face is to actually get people - including the most powerful lawmakers in the world - to care more about the issues than they care about whether they are perceived to have 'won'.
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Jul 24, 2013 10:23
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KomradeX posted:This is what got me over the Daily Show and John Stewart in general that like most liberals hes more concerned with the tone of an argument, then the actual argument. That's a shame. You've missed some fantastic criticism of the right-wing media. Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 10:26
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crusader_complex posted:I dont quite understand why Jon Stewart is so cool with Bill OReilly. When OReilly is on the Daily Show, he usually takes it down two notches, and Stewart will rib him a little bit for being a hyperbolic shill. Its good and pretty professional (lending some credibility to Stewart's show), and recognizes that OReilly is playing a character on TV... but then you go watch OReilly's show, and his rhetoric is practically inciting violence and promotes some of the worst dogwhistle memes out there. Your mistake is thinking Jon Stewart isn't just a hyperbolic shill himself. I mean, I like him because he shills for the right side, but he's still a shill. He's a less annoying Michael Moore.
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Jul 24, 2013 10:34
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KomradeX posted:This is what got me over the Daily Show and John Stewart in general that like most liberals hes more concerned with the tone of an argument, then the actual argument. Watch Bill Maher instead.
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Jul 24, 2013 10:59
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Your mistake is thinking Jon Stewart isn't just a hyperbolic shill himself. Does he really shill for the right side? Is liberalism really the answer?
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Jul 24, 2013 11:26
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Orange Devil posted:Does he really shill for the right side? Is liberalism really the answer? Yes.
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Jul 24, 2013 11:31
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Orange Devil posted:Does he really shill for the right side? Is liberalism really the answer?
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Jul 24, 2013 11:42
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Devour posted:This is precisely why I stopped watching those two idiots on comedy central too. Bill Maher is the loving worst. Sexist as hell, islamaphobic, anti vaccine, and incredibly racist without realizing it.
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Jul 24, 2013 13:15
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greatn posted:Bill Maher is the loving worst. Sexist as hell, islamaphobic, anti vaccine, and incredibly racist without realizing it. If Bill is making you angry, then he's doing his job correctly.
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Jul 24, 2013 13:49
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Devour posted:Bill Maher will actually engage in an honest a debate with somebody, and he's also very vocal and opinionated about his views unlike Dumb & Dumber on comedy central. He's no more irreligious nor sexist than the average celebrity in Hollywood and I also enjoy how he consistently trashes the terrible infrastructure of America along with Healthcare as a whole when compared with other first world nations. Not really. He's a smug doofus who isn't a fascist; therefore, he's the most liberal celebrity not on TV (get it, HBO isn't TV). Politically he's all over the map, but most people have their pet issues and he's on different. Also saying that he isn't any more irreligious than any other celebrity is rich considering he made Religulous.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:06
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Devour posted:Bill Maher will actually engage in an honest a debate with somebody, and he's also very vocal and opinionated about his views unlike Dumb & Dumber on comedy central. He's no more irreligious nor sexist than the average celebrity in Hollywood and I also enjoy how he consistently trashes the terrible infrastructure of America along with Healthcare as a whole when compared with other first world nations. Bill Maher is pandering scum with the dumbest audience on television. It takes a dittohead's mentality to enjoy him.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:21
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Phone posted:Not really. He's a smug doofus who isn't a fascist; therefore, he's the most liberal celebrity not on TV (get it, HBO isn't TV). Politically he's all over the map, but most people have their pet issues and he's on different. He's infinitely more entertaining to watch that Stewart or Colbert. Stewart consistently tries to brand himself as some sort of moral intellectual on the media/politics while hiding behind his "fake news" show. And Colbert's persona gimmick has just been tired & bland for years now, and frankly it's quite insulting to his quests when he interviews them with that poo poo. And I'm going to just disagree that he's "all over the map" politically. He's clearly on the left politically; while probably being the most vocal critic of right wing bullshit in the country. Phone posted:Also saying that he isn't any more irreligious than any other celebrity is rich considering he made Religulous. SedanChair posted:Bill Maher is pandering scum with the dumbest audience on television. It takes a dittohead's mentality to enjoy him. 
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Jul 24, 2013 14:31
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Bill is a smug clueless hypocrit who cares more about fostering his own sense of superiority than creating any meaningful progress in America. He is the avatar of every pampered white intellectual who refuses to practice a modicrum of self-criticism under the assumption his stated political beliefs make him invincible to racism and sexism
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Jul 24, 2013 14:41
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Devour posted:He's infinitely more entertaining to watch that Stewart or Colbert. Stewart consistently tries to brand himself as some sort of moral intellectual on the media/politics while hiding behind his "fake news" show. And Colbert's persona gimmick has just been tired & bland for years now, and frankly it's quite insulting to his quests when he interviews them with that poo poo. Between this and the Trayvon thread, it's literally a contest to see how fast people pull out the  to your posting. I really like your assertion that Colbert's gimmick is tired and old considering that conservatives are significantly more likely to not understand that it's a facade.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:48
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Devour posted:Bill Maher will actually engage in an honest a debate with somebody, and he's also very vocal and opinionated about his views unlike Dumb & Dumber on comedy central. He's no more irreligious nor sexist than the average celebrity in Hollywood and I also enjoy how he consistently trashes the terrible infrastructure of America along with Healthcare as a whole when compared with other first world nations. How are TDS and Colbert not opinionated/vocal?
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Jul 24, 2013 14:48
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TDS and Colbert, but *especially* TDS, are too nice. Stewart especially tries very hard to be "balanced" and is far too polite to big-name celebrities who deserve to be attacked viciously (i.e., John Yoo, who should not have been given a platform at all). They're fundamentally nice people and it shows. The closest they've gotten to actually telling truth to power was probably Colbert's Correspondents Dinner, and so far that's been the high-water-mark of his career at least in that regard. Bill Maher on the other hand is a mean person. This means that he is willing to actually say the vicious truths that sometimes need to be said. It also unfortunately means that he's more than a little bit misogynist etc. It's a tradeoff. They're both great shows in their ways but they have flaws that are a mirror of their virtues.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:TDS and Colbert, but *especially* TDS, are too nice. Stewart especially tries very hard to be "balanced" and is far too polite to big-name celebrities who deserve to be attacked viciously (i.e., John Yoo, who should not have been given a platform at all). They're fundamentally nice people and it shows. The closest they've gotten to actually telling truth to power was probably Colbert's Correspondents Dinner, and so far that's been the high-water-mark of his career at least in that regard. Stewart is nice so people will keep coming onto his show. If you get a reputation for viciously shredding anyone who you interview, you're not going to get interviewees. The man can (and has) humiliated people when he really wanted to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE
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Jul 24, 2013 15:16
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I think we all have something to say about left-wing commentary, maybe some thread where we all try to decide if media and the vocal left within is merely inept, or some other form of social rot. But unless Fox drops their current "ignore him so he stops talking about us" policy with Stewart/Colbert; nothing they have said or will have been saying will change the sate of Right Wing Media.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:TDS and Colbert, but *especially* TDS, are too nice. Stewart especially tries very hard to be "balanced" and is far too polite to big-name celebrities who deserve to be attacked viciously (i.e., John Yoo, who should not have been given a platform at all). They're fundamentally nice people and it shows. The closest they've gotten to actually telling truth to power was probably Colbert's Correspondents Dinner, and so far that's been the high-water-mark of his career at least in that regard. I feel like I agree with this, but Bill is just such an insufferable rear end in a top hat. To the point where he's going into "Oh you just can't handle how much of a dick I am  " territory, which (troublingly) starts to remind me of some oldschool shock jock or something. You're probably right, though.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:20
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Monkey Fracas posted:I feel like I agree with this, but Bill is just such an insufferable rear end in a top hat. To the point where he's going into "Oh you just can't handle how much of a dick I am I much prefer my left-wing media not as hateful of the other side as the right-wing media, but hey, different strokes am I right?!
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Jul 24, 2013 15:28
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Bill is a smug clueless hypocrit who cares more about fostering his own sense of superiority than creating any meaningful progress in America. So he's the left's version of right wing talk radio. Gotcha.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:31
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I always found the left wing purity demands placed upon the Daily Show to be kind of ridiculous. A show can have value as an outlet of left-wing thought and as an expose of the role of the media as political theater and propaganda without being a hard left engine of social change. The show doesn't have to be the icon of leftist thought in order to have leftist value.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:TDS and Colbert, but *especially* TDS, are too nice. Stewart especially tries very hard to be "balanced" and is far too polite to big-name celebrities who deserve to be attacked viciously (i.e., John Yoo, who should not have been given a platform at all). They're fundamentally nice people and it shows. The closest they've gotten to actually telling truth to power was probably Colbert's Correspondents Dinner, and so far that's been the high-water-mark of his career at least in that regard. Bill Maher is a cross between your stock neoliberal upper class Democrat and paranoid Libertarian. He doesn't really bring out any "vicious truths" other than insulting lower class white people, religious people, calling all conservatives racists, bashing fly over country (a term he loves), and constantly attacking political correctness (just like Rush in a way here). He's the actual incarnation of what Rush Limbaugh claims everyone on the left actually are, and what people on the left scream they are not. I know that's fun, because insulting those groups and being a prick and then saying "well it's OK I'm a liberal" is the fun and enjoyable part of liberalism, just like making GBS threads on fly over country is fun. But it's not anything more than repeating all the jokes upper class coastal types make over dinner. That's not the real problem "liberals" should have with him though. Maher embraces both far right and far left conspiracy theories and passes them off as actual issues worth talking about... like anti-vac, something that has actually killed peopled. He also keeps running down the ferret hole (again both far left and far right) that all government is bad and should just be burned down. His guests are always either extreme cranks (see all the libertarians among others) or idiotic conventional wisdom types that are part of the in crowd (see Andrew Sullivan), and he doesn't do a good job of correcting their bullshit most of the time. Bill's fun to watch someone insult people from the fly over states and laugh, but outside of that he's trash.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:33
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SilentD posted:Bill's fun to watch someone insult people from the fly over states and laugh, but outside of that he's trash. See, this is what annoys me the most. A Leftist's primary goal is to improve the lives of the working poor. Do you know what the American working poor are? White trash in fly-over country and minorities in urban environments. These are the two groups Maher focuses the most of his hate on. You cannot actually want social betterment for the oppressed classes when you have nothing but malice for those classes. It means you have no actual moral attachment to your beliefs, you only cling to them on the assumption they provide intellectual and moral superiority to your other white upper class enemies.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:37
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I was going to post about Maher being a libertarian at heart; however, the Internet has skewed my vantage point as to what a libertarian is since I've internalized adding "internet" to the front of "libertarian". So yeah, the short of it is that Bill Maher is a Libertarian. He's just as obnoxious as an Internet Libertarian, but in different ways since he doesn't go on reddit to whine about free speech and buttcoins.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:51
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When it comes to the right wing and especially in the United States, not only is their tone awful, but so are their arguments. It is possible to attack their tone, as well as their arguments. As for the TDS and CR its not some Leftist purity test was people on the Left point out the flaws in these shows, its pointing out they're not actually Left leaning programs. Liberalism is a centrist ideology and The Daily Show in particular are center of the road as you get. And I used to watch the Daily Show religiously for years, until I saw it was a shell game, to get college aged kids who fancy themselves leftists but really pandering to a centrist ideology. Stewart attacked Jim Cramer, and while Cramer is an rear end in a top hat, the 2008 crash was hardly his fault. Thinking gays and other minorities are people and should be treated as such does not in turn make a leftist there is some more nuance than that. That is not to say the Daily Show hasn't been right about a few things, but they're not perfect and maybe should stop being held up as a paragon of what the Left should be. God I remember when O'Riley did that segment on his show where he couldn't believe that Black people, were in fact people and behaved as such. I've told so many people about that incident and they have never failed to be dumbfounded about it.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:56
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KomradeX posted:That is not to say the Daily Show hasn't been right about a few things, but they're not perfect and maybe should stop being held up as a paragon of what the Left should be. I don't think anyone holds them as a paragon of Leftist media, just an example of the direction more media should aspire to. When most media is sound-bytes, arguments, doublethink, and propoganda, a program that makes an honest attempt at civil discourse and political self-reflection is a step in the right direction. The Daily Show isn't the finish line, its an arrow pointing out the direction its in.
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Jul 24, 2013 16:04
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Mel Mudkiper posted:See, this is what annoys me the most. A Leftist's primary goal is to improve the lives of the working poor. Do you know what the American working poor are? White trash in fly-over country and minorities in urban environments. These are the two groups Maher focuses the most of his hate on. On the other hand, Maher is also the thing Real America loathes most. Yes, poor rural conservatives are getting hosed and exploited too, but that doesn't make them not willing, enthusiastic participants in both their own exploitation, the stonewalling of any real change, and untold worldwide suffering. Maybe it's not very ~*christian*~ of me to fail to turn the other cheek, but they're the ones wearing their faith on their sleeve, not me.  You can throw out all the working-poor guilt-trip arguments you want, but that will never, ever, ever be a symbol or mindset that deserves anything except derision. I could come up with dozens more images that symbolize Real America's hatred of anyone that isn't white, male, straight, conservative, and Christian. You're falling into the trap of "you have to tolerate our intolerance!", and that's a pretty damned good thing for Maher to be mocking and marginalizing. It's going to have to happen for us to move forward. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 16:12
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Paul MaudDib posted:On the other hand, Maher is also the thing those people loath most. Yes, poor rural conservatives are getting hosed and exploited too, but that doesn't make them not willing, enthusiastic participants in both their own exploitation, the stonewalling of any real change, and untold worldwide suffering. It may surprise you to know that the global poor generally think and do terrible things. Poverty and being devoid of an education are the roots of conservative extremism in any culture. The Taliban doesn't recruit from the upper class of Afghanistan, Pinochet didn't stock his death squads with urban college grads. The Sinoloa cartel doesn't hire doctors and lawyers to be enforcers. If you cannot, from a position of economic and social comfort, attempt to understand and empathize with how poverty can cause these kinds of behaviors, domestic and abroad, you cannot be a leftist. The poor cannot be your enemy. If you hate what the poor believe, educate them. Don't attack them. Your real enemies are the ones who use that fear and ignorance to exploit them. Attack the policymakers who exploit the poverty and lack of opportunity in "fly-over" America in order to create a voting bloc vehemently opposed to their own welfare.
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Jul 24, 2013 16:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:It may surprise you to know that the global poor generally think and do terrible things. Poverty and being devoid of an education are the roots of conservative extremism in any culture. The Taliban doesn't recruit from the upper class of Afghanistan, Pinochet didn't stock his death squads with urban college grads. The Sinoloa cartel doesn't hire doctors and lawyers to be enforcers. That doesn't mean we have to celebrate the enlightened cultural values of the Taliban, dude. There's a difference between "you're shut out of society forever because you were born a woman" and "hey Real America, there's a place at the table for you if you grow the gently caress up", this is the fundamental reason your "tolerating intolerance" argument is fallacious. In the meantime that doesn't mean we shouldn't mock and deride their lovely lovely opinions. I think you may have accidentally typed in the wrong address, do you realize you're posting in the thread for mocking Conservatives on the internet comedy forum Something Awful? Mel Mudkiper posted:If you cannot, from a position of economic and social comfort, attempt to understand and empathize with how poverty can cause these kinds of behaviors, domestic and abroad, you cannot be a leftist. The poor cannot be your enemy. If you hate what the poor believe, educate them. Don't attack them. Some of them, sure, and I've said they should be welcomed to the table if they want to grow the gently caress up, but even Marx knew that many of the poor were just too far gone. Dittoheads, Real Americans, and Purple Heart Band Aid People are the lumpenproles of our time. quote:Lumpenproletariat is a term that was originally coined by Karl Marx to describe that layer of the working class that is unlikely to ever achieve class consciousness and is therefore lost to socially useful production, of no use to the revolutionary struggle, and may actually be an impediment to the realization of a classless society.[1] The word is derived from the German word Lumpenproletarier, a word literally meaning "miscreant" as well as "rag". The term proletarian was first defined by Marx and Friedrich Engels in The German Ideology (1845) and later elaborated on in other works by Marx. Karl Marx: Not A Leftist  quote:Leon Trotsky elaborated this view, perceiving the lumpenproletariat as especially vulnerable to reactionary thought. In his collection of essays Fascism: What it is and how to fight it, he describes Benito Mussolini's capture of power: "Through the fascist agency, capitalism sets in motion the masses of the crazed petty bourgeoisie and the bands of declassed and demoralized lumpenproletariat – all the countless human beings whom finance capital itself has brought to desperation and frenzy."[13] Leon Trotsky: Not A Leftist
Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 16:25
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Paul MaudDib posted:I think you may have accidentally typed in the wrong address, do you realize you're posting in the thread for mocking Conservatives on the internet comedy forum Something Awful? Actually its the thread for mocking Right-Wing media, the propaganda engine established by cultural elites to exploit the American poor into voting against their own interests. 
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Jul 24, 2013 16:27
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Actually its the thread for mocking Right-Wing media, the propaganda engine established by cultural elites to exploit the American poor into voting against their own interests. I think you're underestimating the potential impacts of peer pressure. Thirty years ago, sexual harassment was just kinda par for the course, now people don't do it because everyone will think you're an rear end in a top hat. I want bashing gays, mocking veterans' injuries, tearing down anti-discrimination laws, talking about the exorcism you participated in, opposing sex ed, etc to be that socially unacceptable. That's largely what Maher is trying to do, and you react badly to it because you're steeped in a culture where Real America's intolerances are casually tolerated. Maher wants a world where being a regressive idiot gets you savagely mocked on television or around the water cooler. Yeah, he's an rear end in a top hat in plenty of ways himself, but that's just fodder for someone else to savage him. Welcome to a world where debates aren't highly scripted affairs where everyone gushes focus-grouped talking points and simply tries not to make a gaffe. It would be great if we had those kinds of real debates in the serious world, but at least someone is trying to make them happen in the funnies business. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 16:51
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Bill Maher and the Daily Show are only "Left" if you view them through an ultra Right lens. They're middle of the road quasi Libertarians.
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Jul 24, 2013 16:56
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Literlaly the only thing keeping the 'quasi' for Maher is the fact that he for some reason refuses to acknowledge that he's basically a full on libertarian at this stage and sometimes says to vote for a democrat when they come on his show enough.
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Jul 24, 2013 16:59
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