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WHERE MY HAT IS AT
Jan 7, 2011

SurgicalOntologist posted:

Equally responsive or nearly so, maybe a bit less precise, but all I've done in touch mode is play Civ 5 so it's not much experience with it.


Like, it's uncomfortable to have in your lab on a hot day, but it's doable. I doubt you'd notice from above, i.e. the keyboard, and it's certainly not hot enough to melt your table or anything like that. Where are you pulling that 52C from? I'll download CPU-Z or something and check the temps. I don't think we've once run down the battery, it can take at least 3-4 hours in Civ 5, but I'll have her do an experiment and let it run down and see how long it lasts.

Ninja edit: fans are very quiet.

I'm using speedfan to get my internal temps. When you say it's too hot to put on your lap comfortably, is that during just normal use or playing Civ 5/whatever else?

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TenementFunster
Feb 20, 2003

The Cooler King
I'm a dummy and didn't realize that the Razer Blade took a mSATA drive, so I have to return this 480gb SanDisk Extreme amd get an mSATA drive. However, I can't find many large (~500gb) mSATAs. What brands/models should I be looking for?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

TenementFunster posted:

I'm a dummy and didn't realize that the Razer Blade took a mSATA drive, so I have to return this 480gb SanDisk Extreme amd get an mSATA drive. However, I can't find many large (~500gb) mSATAs. What brands/models should I be looking for?

Mushkin makes one of the only ones

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226379

TenementFunster
Feb 20, 2003

The Cooler King
gently caress, that is a lot money. i just discovered that this thing has two mSATA ports inside (allegedly), so I might just buy another 256gb. would it be possible to JBOD them?

sports
Sep 1, 2012

TenementFunster posted:

gently caress, that is a lot money. i just discovered that this thing has two mSATA ports inside (allegedly), so I might just buy another 256gb. would it be possible to JBOD them?

I didn't know turd polish was that expensive.

All harsh realities aside, you'd be better off keeping a really big slow (lol slow mSATA like that exists...) SSD in one of the mSATA slots and a 32- or 64-GiB "bl33d1n9-3d93" mSATA drive for the OS itself, for quick boots and the like.

sports
Sep 1, 2012
I'm waiting for that Sarnsung pcie SSD that's in the new Air to be sold standalone. My x220 isn't long in the tooth but I would like to start getting parts that save battery life. The worst part about getting the pcie SSD would have to be that it's twice as "fast" as SATA-III's operation ceiling, which is really funny.

sports fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jul 25, 2013

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

sports posted:

I'm waiting for that Sarnsung pcie SSD that's in the new Air to be sold standalone. My x220 isn't long in the tooth but I would like to start getting parts that save battery life.

What the heck are you going to put it in?

sports
Sep 1, 2012
My x220 has a pcie card slot for mobile broadband. I'm working on a BIOS patch right now.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

sports posted:

My x220 has a pcie card slot for mobile broadband. I'm working on a BIOS patch right now.

How's this going to fit in there?

InstantInfidel
Jan 9, 2010

BEST :10bux: I EVER SPENT

Bob Morales posted:

How's this going to fit in there?



Don't ruin the dream :getin:

sports
Sep 1, 2012

Bob Morales posted:

How's this going to fit in there?



Just took it apart and figured out that the full height + half height card is enough space for the M2 form factor. Hmm.

TenementFunster
Feb 20, 2003

The Cooler King

sports posted:

I didn't know turd polish was that expensive.

All harsh realities aside, you'd be better off keeping a really big slow (lol slow mSATA like that exists...) SSD in one of the mSATA slots and a 32- or 64-GiB "bl33d1n9-3d93" mSATA drive for the OS itself, for quick boots and the like.
I've only used the SSD in this laptop and the Sandisk Extreme in my desktop. are there actually appreciable speed differences in SSDs? all of the ones I have used have just been "woah fast" to me, but I haven't busted out the stop watch yet

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

For normal use you won't notice any difference. I think only people that run benchmarks can tell.

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)
I think you can tell -- look how fast the system boots -- but you don't care.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

So like 11 seconds vs 15 seconds?

sports
Sep 1, 2012

shrughes posted:

I think you can tell -- look how fast the system boots -- but you don't care.

Seriously, who still cold boots their computer? I just close the lid and open it at will.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.
Windows updates.

Even Windows 8 can't do its quick boot thing if it needs to install updates.

sports
Sep 1, 2012

dissss posted:

Windows updates.

Even Windows 8 can't do its quick boot thing if it needs to install updates.

Seriously? :/

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)
If you're a paranoid like me you shut down every time you leave your computer so that nobody can read the contents of your encrypted drive.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

If its passworded on resume then presumably they'd try to reboot. Or just refrain from leaving it lying around imo

lostleaf
Jul 12, 2009

Revol posted:

My Haswell XPS 12 just arrived. I plan to do a write-up for this thread, when it goes up depends heavily on how much activity I'm able to get through online dating over the next two days. (I should have something lined up for Thursday, and I may do something on Friday too. So maybe push it to Saturday. But if my luck holds out and prove me to be a loser yet again, maybe sooner.) Right now, I'm running Windows Update before I load a backup image of the system onto my USB flash drive.

Anyone have any questions? For reference, this is the bottom-level $1200 model with the i5, 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD. Anyone have a game they want me to test on the Intel HD 4400? Anyone want to give me free accessories that use NFC so I can actually make use of the feature? (Is there an affordable mouse that can do that?)

I don't know how old you are but how does it handle taking notes using touchscreen? Or does it have any digitizer support? I'm deciding between the xps12 and vaio duo 13.

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Progressive JPEG posted:

If its passworded on resume then presumably they'd try to reboot. Or just refrain from leaving it lying around imo

If it's on, there is key material in memory:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/cryogenically-frozen-ram-bypasses-all-disk-encryption-methods/900

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Yeah, if something's actually that sensitive it really shouldn't be on a laptop

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Progressive JPEG posted:

Yeah, if something's actually that sensitive it really shouldn't be on a laptop

There are many government agencies and corporations that disagree. If you just encrypt your hard drive then that's probably fine

Meltycat
May 20, 2006

Melty and adorable!

My Sony Vaio Z finally gave up the ghost, and so I'm looking for another laptop, new or used.

Here's what I would like:
  • High-res (>1920x1080) screen 13" or 15", preferably 15" (not willing to settle for lower resolutions)
  • Comfortable keyboard
  • Touchpad with physical buttons, preferably trackpoint with physical buttons
  • Solid wifi connectivity in terms of distance/stability
  • 80GB+ storage, preferably SSD
  • 4GB+ RAM, upgradable to 8GB+ required if buying new
  • Runs modern Linux (Lubuntu 13.04) well
  • 2 hours+ battery life, enough to last through a longish meeting
  • User-servicable for upgrades/replacements (e.g. no soldered RAM/battery if possible)
  • Some form of video out for presentations (VGA/DVI/HDMI), 2560x1600+ support required if buying something new so that it will work with my monitor which does not have a hardware scaler
  • Will not fall apart like my Sony did
  • Matte and outdoor readable on the screen would be fantastic, and while I'm making wishes something with a stylus for taking/managing/distributing handwritten notes and figures might be nice
Here's what I don't care about :
  • Optical drives
  • Touchscreens
The use case is to crank out code and to read/write documents with tons of figures and fine details, so the screen and keyboard are high priorities. I only travel about a week every other month or so and don't have to carry the laptop long distances otherwise, so weight isn't a huge concern. I would like to avoid spending more than $1200-$1500USD tops if I buy new. I don't urgently need a new machine since I have a loaner MacBook Pro for a few weeks, but would like to have my own machine set up. I think I have two options:

1) Buy a Haswell system with a decent ("retina quality"+) screen, or wait until one comes out.
2) Buy a ~$300 old used laptop with a decent screen (>1920x1080, so probably 1920x1200), put 4GB+ RAM in it and an 80GB SSD, and use for a year or two until it is no longer usable. After that, there should be plenty of higher-resolution laptops to choose from at reasonable prices :confused:

For 1), I've thought about buying a Haswell rMBP and liked the screen I saw in the store on the current models, but I'm not sold on Linux support for them, really dislike clickpads and soldered components, don't really like the keyboard layout, and have zero interest in running OS X. (I have used OS X for ~twelve months in the past). I've also thought about picking up a Chromebook Pixel, and probably would have if the memory/storage were upgradable and it didn't have such a tiny amount of local storage for the price. I've barely seen anything about prices for upcoming Haswell systems with decent screens, but imagine that they will likely be really expensive and have seen rumored prices floating around $2kish for "base" models. Is there anything I'm missing here? A new laptop would be nice because it'd make it easier to debug/run code locally in addition to playing some undemanding games/watching HD videos/HD YouTube while I'm on the go, but I feel like I'm going to be forced into paying a huge premium for a nice screen if I go this route. I also wonder if there are going to even be any new laptops which come with physical trackpad buttons, as even Lenovo seems to be moving away from them -- I imagine this is something I will probably just have to live with.

I'm really leaning towards 2), buying an older laptop with a decent screen, but aren't sure what the best choice would be here. I've heard that T61s laptops have 1920x1200 displays, which is the minimum I'd like to consider. Are there any other laptops I should be looking at? If I could pick up a laptop with a nice 4:3 screen, that would be great too. I just don't know how old is "too old" with regards to being able to use a modern Linux distribution/read documents/browse the web/watch fullscreen YouTube without sluggishness being a problem. The coding/writing shouldn't be much of an issue as I use terminal-based programs for that, and with 4GB of RAM testing code should still be doable even if it's a bit slow. 2GB or 3GB might be workable too, but 4GB would be preferred. I may be working with protected data in the future and would like to have full-disk encryption in that case, so AES instruction set support would be nice too with an older machine to help with speed, but not a requirement. I just don't want to spend more than like $300 if I go this route, because this would be a stopgap solution with the intention of buying another laptop within a year or two.

Thanks for any advice!

Meltycat fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jul 25, 2013

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

So I've got some general use Dell coupon codes, not sure how much longer they'll be around:

30% off any Laptop, Desktop or Tablet $1000+ Code: "2JTJ140TG9562G"
25% off any Laptop, Desktop or Tablet $500+ Code: "S45VMLZ06VJ3WM"
20% off any Laptop, Desktop or Tablet under $500 Code: "$X3GG244P$8?90"
30% off any Refurbished Monitor Code: "0$HG9WSRJRKW22"

I took a look at the XPS 12, but my god those are loving expensive. I think that I'll sit tight and wait for some more laptops to come out with the HD5000

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Meltycat posted:

My Sony Vaio Z finally gave up the ghost, and so I'm looking for another laptop, new or used.

Here's what I would like:
  • High-res (>1920x1080) screen 13" or 15", preferably 15" (not willing to settle for lower resolutions)
  • Comfortable keyboard
  • Touchpad with physical buttons, preferably trackpoint with physical buttons
  • Solid wifi connectivity in terms of distance/stability
  • 80GB+ storage, preferably SSD
  • 4GB+ RAM, upgradable to 8GB+ required if buying new
  • Runs modern Linux (Lubuntu 13.04) well
  • 2 hours+ battery life, enough to last through a longish meeting
  • User-servicable for upgrades/replacements (e.g. no soldered RAM/battery if possible)
  • Some form of video out for presentations (VGA/DVI/HDMI), 2560x1600+ support required if buying something new so that it will work with my monitor which does not have a hardware scaler
  • Will not fall apart like my Sony did
  • Matte and outdoor readable on the screen would be fantastic, and while I'm making wishes something with a stylus for taking/managing/distributing handwritten notes and figures might be nice
Here's what I don't care about :
  • Optical drives
  • Touchscreens
The use case is to crank out code and to read/write documents with tons of figures and fine details, so the screen and keyboard are high priorities. I only travel about a week every other month or so and don't have to carry the laptop long distances otherwise, so weight isn't a huge concern. I would like to avoid spending more than $1200-$1500USD tops if I buy new. I don't urgently need a new machine since I have a loaner MacBook Pro for a few weeks, but would like to have my own machine set up. I think I have two options:

1) Buy a Haswell system with a decent ("retina quality"+) screen, or wait until one comes out.
2) Buy a ~$300 old used laptop with a decent screen (>1920x1080, so probably 1920x1200), put 4GB+ RAM in it and an 80GB SSD, and use for a year or two until it is no longer usable. After that, there should be plenty of higher-resolution laptops to choose from at reasonable prices :confused:

The stuff you've just listed definitely sounds like a T530 with the 95% 1080p screen option (except maybe for non-weird keyboard layout). The inevitable Haswell refresh hasn't been announced yet, though obviously it's coming, but may not fill as many of your requirements like no clickpad.

As for old computers, I have an old T61 and if you can get a good one and put in an ssd they are still fine for basic computing. But they're now quite old so I'm not sure how easy it is to find decent ones on craigslist or ebay or whatever.

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

QuarkJets posted:

So I've got some general use Dell coupon codes, not sure how much longer they'll be around:

30% off any Laptop, Desktop or Tablet $1000+ Code: "2JTJ140TG9562G"

Dell posted:


Coupon Error
We're sorry, the coupon code you have entered is not valid in the segment in which you are currently shopping.

Please review the offer details associated with the coupon to determine the segment in which it is valid.


Trying to use it on an XPS 12 :( Guess it's not "Any" after all.

Revol
Aug 1, 2003

EHCIARF EMERC...
EHCIARF EMERC...

lostleaf posted:

I don't know how old you are but how does it handle taking notes using touchscreen? Or does it have any digitizer support? I'm deciding between the xps12 and vaio duo 13.

It has no digitizer, so notation is going to be a little more difficult without it. I do have an Adonit Jot stylus, though, so I plan to test it with that. Didn't get a chance to yet, since I wanted to get my Skinomi screen protector on first. But it looks like maybe the installation didn't take well, I have a lot of streaking/fog under the screen. And it doesn't look like the kind that is supposed to disappear a few days after application, either.

Brut posted:

Trying to use it on an XPS 12 :( Guess it's not "Any" after all.

A quick Google search shows that this is the Dell Outlet, so we're talking refurbished. Which means you wont't find the new Haswell XPS 12.

Revol fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jul 25, 2013

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
How well do Chromebooks work with an external monitor? I am thinking that a younger sibling going off to college would enjoy having a Chromebook and a 24" monitor more than x230.

Calidus fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 25, 2013

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

QuarkJets posted:

There are many government agencies and corporations that disagree. If you just encrypt your hard drive then that's probably fine
Yeah this would be in the context of an encrypted drive. If you're worried about someone tapping your ram on top of that then your data is likely too sensitive to be mobile.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist
Dell just announced the Precision M3800 and that it will have a 3,200 x 1,800 display. At 4.5 pounds it looks to be a direct 15" rMBP competitor.

vty
Nov 8, 2007

oh dott, oh dott!
Is anybody aware of a good list of Haswell-gen Ultrabooks that have discrete graphics cards and 1600+ resolution? I need to replace my annoying 2012 S9.

edit:

Naffer posted:

Dell just announced the Precision M3800 and that it will have a 3,200 x 1,800 display. At 4.5 pounds it looks to be a direct 15" rMBP competitor.

Oh boy, might go that route. I'm betting $4900.

vty fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 25, 2013

rcman50166
Mar 23, 2010

by XyloJW
Hi everyone,

My 5 year old HP dv6933CL laptop is nearly inoperable so I'm in the market for a replacement, yay! Trouble is, I haven't known anything about laptops (or more accurately mobile computers, at this point) since I last bought my computer. I read the OP but would still like some pointers

I have since built a desktop so my laptop is not my primary computer anymore. So I don't need something for games or anything high end like that. I am looking at one of those fancy tablet/laptop things with the detachable keyboards. I would like to retain use of Microsoft office as well as have USB ports. Is that unreasonable/expensive? I thought I'd save the thread the target budget stuff. I'm just looking for information at this point.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

fookolt posted:

drat, so I guess they can't scale it up to laptops. That's a shame.

No, they already have scaled it up to laptops and beyond. In fact, this is a scaling-down, the desktop/laptop versions came first. "Kepler" is a codename for a family of 28nm GPUs sharing a common building block, the SMX. To scale the size of the GPU (and therefore its raw compute power), they vary the number of SMX blocks tiled onto a chip. The big deal about Logan is that it's an ARM SoC with a minimum size (one SMX) Kepler GPU, and the minimum Kepler is a whole lotta GPU by ARM tablet/phone standards.

For a point of comparison, the GeForce GT 650M used in the current and soon to be obsoleted rMBP 15" is a two-SMX Kepler. (I wouldn't be surprised if the 650M is a lot more than twice as fast as the Logan GPU in practice, though, thanks to clock speeds, power budget, memory performance, and so on.)

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

rcman50166 posted:

Hi everyone,

My 5 year old HP dv6933CL laptop is nearly inoperable so I'm in the market for a replacement, yay! Trouble is, I haven't known anything about laptops (or more accurately mobile computers, at this point) since I last bought my computer. I read the OP but would still like some pointers

I have since built a desktop so my laptop is not my primary computer anymore. So I don't need something for games or anything high end like that. I am looking at one of those fancy tablet/laptop things with the detachable keyboards. I would like to retain use of Microsoft office as well as have USB ports. Is that unreasonable/expensive? I thought I'd save the thread the target budget stuff. I'm just looking for information at this point.

Wait so your laptop requirements are office and usb ports? I'm pretty sure that applies to pretty much any laptop on the market save maybe a couple weird ones.

What is your budget? What screen size do you want? What resolution? How important are color accuracy and viewing angles?Is weight important? Honestly I'm not really sure what exactly you're asking for information about, so at this point all I can do is recommend looking at the ThinkPad T430/T530 for a regular laptop or their inevitably upcoming haswell refreshes (T440/T540), and Dell XPS 12 (haswell labeled NEW XPS 12) or ideapad yoga 13 for convertibles.

fookolt
Mar 13, 2012

Where there is power
There is resistance

BobHoward posted:

No, they already have scaled it up to laptops and beyond. In fact, this is a scaling-down, the desktop/laptop versions came first. "Kepler" is a codename for a family of 28nm GPUs sharing a common building block, the SMX. To scale the size of the GPU (and therefore its raw compute power), they vary the number of SMX blocks tiled onto a chip. The big deal about Logan is that it's an ARM SoC with a minimum size (one SMX) Kepler GPU, and the minimum Kepler is a whole lotta GPU by ARM tablet/phone standards.

For a point of comparison, the GeForce GT 650M used in the current and soon to be obsoleted rMBP 15" is a two-SMX Kepler. (I wouldn't be surprised if the 650M is a lot more than twice as fast as the Logan GPU in practice, though, thanks to clock speeds, power budget, memory performance, and so on.)

Thanks for the explanation! That makes a whole lotta sense.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

Not a very practical attack, though. A lot of computers unintentionally make it rather difficult to get at the DRAM in order to freeze it.

But if anyone actually needs to guard against this on a Mac, turns out there's a way! (One which doesn't require you to shut down and reboot all the time, that is.) Run OS X 10.7.3 or later, turn FileVault 2 full disk encryption on (you need a computer which can do this, which I think means Sandy Bridge or better), and do this in a Terminal window:

sudo pmset -a destroyfvkeyonstandby 1 hibernatemode 25

"destroyfvkeyonstandby" does what it says -- when the computer enters standby (sleep or hibernate), its EFI firmware deliberately forgets the FileVault decryption key. Ordinarily it would be remembered during standby as a convenience, so you don't have to retype your password.

"hibernatemode 25" alters sleep behavior. The default hibernatemode, 3, lets OS X choose to sleep and later upgrade to hibernate if battery power is low. 25 forces it to always hibernate. Hibernation means the system writes RAM contents to a sleep image on disk, then truly shuts power off (so the DRAM forgets its contents).

The combination of these two settings means that after you close the lid and the system finishes hibernating, it's equivalent to a full shutdown from a security perspective. Everything's on an encrypted disk, and the decryption key is no longer known.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

BobHoward posted:

Not a very practical attack, though. A lot of computers unintentionally make it rather difficult to get at the DRAM in order to freeze it.
The real answer is if you've got data THAT important that someone might actually go to the bother of trying to actively obtain it via physical means, you should be using full disk encryption and keep the laptop physically secured. It should never matter if there's a theoretical DRAM hack like that because the damned laptop should be locked up in the first place. I struggle to think of a scenario where there would be both (1) super-important data on a laptop and yet (2) it's left somewhere it would be vulnerable to someone popping out the RAM without anyone asking wtf they were doing and (3) that someone would be there to attack it almost immediately after the user left.

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Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

In linux land theres luksSuspend/luksResume, but its usage appears to be pretty rare outside of DIY, likely due to the reasons given by DrDork. The intersection of data that should ever be on a laptop and data that is sensitive enough to warrant worrying about frozen ram is presumably zero.

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