Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

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Socket Ryanist: Aug 30, 2004

Just use hosa cables. They plug and unplug easily, the cables are really flexible and I've never broken one. But for some reason people turn up their nose...

(don't use their XLR or 1/4" cables unless you plan on replacing the connectors with better ones)

# ? Jul 21, 2013 01:35

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:56

Opensourcepirate: Aug 1, 2004; Except Wednesdays

Mister Macys posted:

They grip so loving tight, I pulled the wire right out of the jack once.

Yes, it was Monster.
Yes, I should've grabbed the jack, not the cord, regardless.
Yes, I know better- on both counts now.

I think Monster Cables come with a lifetime warranty. I read a post by a touring musician who explained that Monster guitar patch cables are actually a good deal for him because he breaks them all the time while playing gigs, and as long as he can find a music store that sells them, they'll just replace them under warranty.

Edit: While we're talking about cable companies, one that interests me is Blue Jeans cable. I posted about them once in this thread and people basically said that I was dumb and should just order from monoprice for half as much. If people are having trouble with monoprice cables they may be worth the extra money, although I checked and they don't have microusb.

I've never ordered from them, but I've read a bunch of the technical articles they have posted and it seems like they know their poo poo. Here's one talking about problems with HDMI.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whats-the-matter-with-hdmi.htm

Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 21, 2013

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:05

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Opensourcepirate posted:

I've never ordered from them, but I've read a bunch of the technical articles they have posted and it seems like they know their poo poo. Here's one talking about problems with HDMI.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whats-the-matter-with-hdmi.htm

Don't ever read 'articles' or even articles by manufacturers/vendors.

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:17

Opensourcepirate: Aug 1, 2004; Except Wednesdays

Oh god, what have I done?!?! I've exposed myself to filth like this by reading their 'articles'

bluejeanscable posted:

Oxygen-Free Copper
Many cables today are advertised as using "oxygen-free copper." OFC is popular in audio cables, and has begun to make inroads into the video cable market as well.

We all know, of course, that oxygen is bad for things made from copper. Copper oxidizes and turns green and flaky; in so doing, it loses its high conductivity and begins to fall apart. But the amount of oxygen present in conventionally annealed, non-OFC copper is so tiny that it simply isn't a factor in cable quality. We have cut into pieces of Belden coaxial cable twenty-five years old that have been used in radio transmission applications--and found them clean and bright, completely lacking any sign of oxidation. Modern coax is better still, with nitrogen-injected foam dielectrics that keep oxygen entirely away from the center conductor.

As it is with silver, there's nothing wrong with OFC; but electrically speaking, OFC wire is indistinguishable in audio and video applications from ordinary annealed copper wire.

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:26

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Opensourcepirate posted:

Oh god, what have I done?!?! I've exposed myself to filth like this by reading their 'articles'

Now quote the passage where they tell you what they have done to make their cables good.

e: Found it myself:

quote:

But attention to these questions is what makes the difference between American broadcast-quality cable and the cheap Chinese stuff which is so very common on the consumer audio/video market.

Oh well yes let's compare our non-cheap product to the cheapest possible product.

3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jul 21, 2013

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:30

Opensourcepirate: Aug 1, 2004; Except Wednesdays

Fair enough. A lot of their articles are about technical specifications (like the first one I posted), and don't talk much about their products. I'll post their entire article on their welded speak wires though.

BlueJeansCable posted:

Ultrasonic Welding and BJC Speaker Cable
In June, 2010, Blue Jeans Cable introduced an innovation in home theater cabling: welded speaker cables. Thanks to an ultrasonic welder from Sonobond Corporation and our own custom-designed weldable banana plugs, spade lugs and pin terminals, we are now able to produce speaker cable assemblies with the best possible mechanical and electrical junction between cable and connector: a weld.

Before going into detail, a clarification is probably in order. We've often seen people refer to "welded" connections when they mean "soldered," and we want to assure you that that's not the case here; we know very well the difference between soldering (where two metal surfaces are joined by heating them and flowing a low-melting point metal into the junction between them) and welding (where two metal surfaces are fused directly together), and while we do solder numerous other types of cable assemblies, these connections are welded. The copper speaker wire enters the back of the banana plug and is fused directly to the gold-plated brass surface of the banana plug, in a bond of remarkable strength and low electrical resistance.

Sparks Flying?
Anyone acquainted with the sorts of welding we see in normal daily life will think this is a bit odd. Most welding is done either with a gas flame or with a high-current flow of electricity, and involves considerable heat. Welding speaker cables to banana plugs in those ways would be well nigh impossible, because the heat required is so great that it would destroy the insulation on the cable, and the heat conductivity of the banana plug is so high that it would be very hard to make the weld without melting and badly distorting the plug. The connection point at the weld would be superb, but with the insulation burned off of the wire and the plug now possibly too misshapen to go into a binding post, it wouldn't be a very useful product.

So, How is it Done?
There are other ways to pump a lot of energy into a metal-to-metal joint besides the conventional method of just heating it up, and one of these is through ultrasonic vibrations. By applying high-energy vibration to metal parts, one can break down the structure of the metal without raising it to high temperatures--pressure and vibration "melt" the metal without reaching the melting temperature, and surfaces can be fused together at close to room temperature.

We first saw this process performed by a remarkable company out of West Chester, Pennsylvania, called Sonobond Ultrasonics. Sonobond makes ultrasonic welders for small terminal welding, wire splicing, and a variety of other applications at its factory in West Chester, and its demonstrations at wire-harness trade shows (yes, we know; a wire-harness trade show sounds like a pretty exciting thing) are something to behold. One moment, the operator of the machine is holding a piece of stranded wire and a terminal, completely separate from one another. He puts the wire and terminal into the machine, hits a footpedal, and a second later, pulls the terminal out. The wire is now fused to the terminal, and yet the assembly can immediately be dropped into the palm of one's hand--it's just a bit warm. The experience of seeing it done for the first time is so strange that it seems like it must be some sort of sleight-of-hand routine--the first impression is that what has just happened must be physically impossible.

Why Welded Speaker Cable?
Ultrasonic welding clearly could be used to attach terminals to speaker cable, if one could have a terminal made that offered a clean weld surface and if one were willing to invest in the equipment to do it--but why bother? Well, we have long been unhappy with conventional methods for attaching banana plugs to speaker cable, for a couple of reasons.

First, from an electrical integrity standpoint, it's best to have as few surface-to-surface connections in any electrical line as possible. Every time surfaces are held together to make electrical contact, it provides a potential point for failure. For this reason, we have long favored bare-wire termination of speaker cable, because bare-wire termination means only two surface-to-surface connections (amp binding post to wire and speaker binding post to wire) rather than four (amp binding post to banana, banana to wire, wire to banana, banana to speaker binding post). The weakest of these junctions is the joint of bare wire either to a binding post or to a banana plug, as these connections, held together only by screw tension, are vulnerable to loosening through vibration and to corrosion--the banana-to-binding post connections, by contrast, use non-corrosive plating such as gold to prevent oxidation from compromising the connection. Welding the banana to the wire eliminates the weak point in the speaker connection; even if the connection were to corrode, it would corrode on the outer surfaces and not within the weld itself, and no amount of vibration (short of another trip through an ultrasonic press) will break the weld loose.

Second, the mechanical integrity of conventional banana plug connections just isn't very good. Wire held into banana plugs by compression screw or setscrew methods can be pulled out of those plugs with a good hard pull, and while this isn't likely to happen with ordinary handling, it means that trying to pull terminated speaker cables through walls and conduits is very chancy--and can end with the banana plugs lost in, and obstructing, a conduit. With welded speaker cables, it takes a considerable force to rip the plug from the cable; a 12 AWG wire with a welded banana plug will not pull apart without around 130 pounds of force, and of course if that force is distributed across multiple wires, the strength only multiplies.

These problems might be solved by going to soldering--but the strength of a solder joint isn't as good as that of a weld, and although soldering doesn't involve the same levels of heat as are required for welding, the heat required to solder a large wire to a heavy terminal like a banana plug without the risk of an unreliable cold-solder joint is still enough to cause a lot of insulation melt-back on the speaker wire. Add to that the fact that soldering these large terminals is fairly labor-intensive work, and it just doesn't add up to a good solution.

The downsides of welding, on the other hand, were manageable. An ultrasonic welder is an expensive piece of gear, and the connectors needed a redesign to maximize the weld surface area and to open that area up for the weld head, but after some months of preparation and a bit of investment, the plugs and the welder are here and ready to weld. The result is a speaker cable with the best physical durability and electrical integrity of any speaker cable on the market, but without the crazy pricing of the boutique cable companies.

American Cable, American Technology, American Assembly
All assembly of our welded speaker cables is done here in our shop in Seattle, Washington. Our primary speaker cable stocks come from Belden Wire and Cable in Richmond, Indiana, and the welder is, as mentioned above, made by Sonobond in its factory in West Chester, PA. Blue Jeans Cable is committed to keeping manufacturing jobs in the USA, and whenever we can source and assemble products and equipment here, that's how we prefer to work. The price is a bit higher than you'll find on some of the many generic Chinese products available elsewhere, but so is the quality of manufacture--this is the best-engineered, best-built speaker cable you will find anywhere, at any price.

Edit: You'll notice that they recommend in the article just buying bare speaker wire from them if you don't want the welded option, rather than going with their optional screw on banana plugs or other terminations.

Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 21, 2013

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:34

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

I checked their prices on the site and even though I have no idea how long 10 feet is, I'm fairly certain 48� USD for a 10 foot stereo cable is way too much. (It's too much for 10 metres of stereo cable and I know a foot is less than a metre.)

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:37

Opensourcepirate: Aug 1, 2004; Except Wednesdays

This will be my last post on the subject so I don't run it into the ground. These are the things I have to say.

1. I've found their articles to be interesting. A lot of them talk about technical specifications for various standards and have very little to say about their particular cables. Obviously they talk about themselves in a good light, but it's not overblown.
2. They are US based and manufacture as much as they can in the US. I and other people are willing to spend more money on US made goods. If you're not, that's fine.
3. The item you quoted is a custom length item. You have to enter 10 feet, and then they make a cable to fill the order. Other products they have come in pre-made lengths, and generally seem to be priced more closely to what you would find from other sources.
4. I strongly disagree with your statement to not read articles by anyone. I think it's a much better skill to be able to read articles and figure out what is and is not bullshit, rather than just cutting yourself off from biased material completely.
5. As best as I can tell, this company does what they can to make a high quality cable without using any bells or whistles that don't actually improve quality. One of the things that lead me to them is that I was looking for HDMI cables that will actually do 50+ feet reliably. I absolutely go with Chinese mass produced poo poo for my 6-10 feet HDMI cables, but I've had HDMI cables not work for me at lengths as short as 15 feet. Finding a long HDMI cable that will work is a harder task than you may realize, and this company claims to have made a cable that will go 150 feet.

Edit: To give an idea of the markup: they charge about 10 cents a foot (20 cents per foot you enter, but you're getting two cables) for their Belden 1505F stereo cable when you put in a large length. That cable is available in bulk from tons of places, at about $100 for 100 feet or $700 for 1000 feet. So 10 cents a foot for 100 feet and 7 cents a foot for 1000.

Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jul 21, 2013

# ? Jul 21, 2013 06:55

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Opensourcepirate posted:

Fair enough. A lot of their articles are about technical specifications (like the first one I posted), and don't talk much about their products. I'll post their entire article on their welded speak wires though.

Edit: You'll notice that they recommend in the article just buying bare speaker wire from them if you don't want the welded option, rather than going with their optional screw on banana plugs or other terminations.

I've seen their sonic mumbo jumbo welded cables, they're actually really cool. The wiring basically looks like its part of the connector. No solder or anything.

# ? Jul 21, 2013 20:24

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Opensourcepirate posted:

This will be my last post on the subject so I don't run it into the ground. These are the things I have to say.

1. I've found their articles to be interesting. A lot of them talk about technical specifications for various standards and have very little to say about their particular cables. Obviously they talk about themselves in a good light, but it's not overblown.
2. They are US based and manufacture as much as they can in the US. I and other people are willing to spend more money on US made goods. If you're not, that's fine.
3. The item you quoted is a custom length item. You have to enter 10 feet, and then they make a cable to fill the order. Other products they have come in pre-made lengths, and generally seem to be priced more closely to what you would find from other sources.
4. I strongly disagree with your statement to not read articles by anyone. I think it's a much better skill to be able to read articles and figure out what is and is not bullshit, rather than just cutting yourself off from biased material completely.
5. As best as I can tell, this company does what they can to make a high quality cable without using any bells or whistles that don't actually improve quality. One of the things that lead me to them is that I was looking for HDMI cables that will actually do 50+ feet reliably. I absolutely go with Chinese mass produced poo poo for my 6-10 feet HDMI cables, but I've had HDMI cables not work for me at lengths as short as 15 feet. Finding a long HDMI cable that will work is a harder task than you may realize, and this company claims to have made a cable that will go 150 feet.

Edit: To give an idea of the markup: they charge about 10 cents a foot (20 cents per foot you enter, but you're getting two cables) for their Belden 1505F stereo cable when you put in a large length. That cable is available in bulk from tons of places, at about $100 for 100 feet or $700 for 1000 feet. So 10 cents a foot for 100 feet and 7 cents a foot for 1000.

$100 for 100 ft is $1 per foot, not 10 cents. 10 cents per foot would be 10 bucks.

# ? Jul 21, 2013 20:30

grack: Jan 10, 2012; COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

The owner of Blue Jeans Audio is the guy who pretty well told Monster to gently caress off when Monster sent them a cease and desist letter when the latter was in their litigious phase.

I recall that the whole thing ended up as a pretty big public humiliation for Monster.

# ? Jul 21, 2013 20:39

BANME.sh: Jan 23, 2008; What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??; Grimey Drawer

I bought a set of blue jeans' ultra low capacitance RCA cables for my turntable, since interference actually makes a huge difference before you hit the pre-amp. Build quality is great, and they are still a fraction less than other high end audio cables. Even less than what you'd pay for "high end" stuff in Best Buy.

# ? Jul 21, 2013 22:08

Opensourcepirate: Aug 1, 2004; Except Wednesdays

KillHour posted:

$100 for 100 ft is $1 per foot, not 10 cents. 10 cents per foot would be 10 bucks.

Oh yeah, that was dumb of me. So 1 buck a foot for Blue Jeans and 70 cents a foot for a 1000 foot spool.

Anyway guys, thanks for the validation. It's good to see that we can discuss actual differences in quality in the audiophiles thread.

Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 21, 2013

# ? Jul 21, 2013 23:47

Panty Saluter: Jan 17, 2004; Making learning fun!

I don't generally pay a lot of attention to Audiogon these days but this caught my eye: http://hub.audiogon.com/amarra-symphony/

How about a $500 "high end" music player for your Mac that's likely a frontend for iTunes anyway? The switch to file-based listening must have been a great boon for audiophile companies now that they don't even have to actually manufacture something.

e: also I like the conspicuously placed AC/DC track with the stupid "Best of" Mozart tracks. We are smart and cultured but we know how to rock and be cool too guys!!! :downsgun:

# ? Jul 24, 2013 05:33

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Detroit Q. Spider posted:

I don't generally pay a lot of attention to Audiogon these days but this caught my eye: http://hub.audiogon.com/amarra-symphony/

How about a $500 "high end" music player for your Mac that's likely a frontend for iTunes anyway? The switch to file-based listening must have been a great boon for audiophile companies now that they don't even have to actually manufacture something.

e: also I like the conspicuously placed AC/DC track with the stupid "Best of" Mozart tracks. We are smart and cultured but we know how to rock and be cool too guys!!!

Or maybe the / just throws off the alphabetization :shobon:

? (OK we all know that's not what happened.)

# ? Jul 24, 2013 06:18

grack: Jan 10, 2012; COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Detroit Q. Spider posted:

I don't generally pay a lot of attention to Audiogon these days but this caught my eye: http://hub.audiogon.com/amarra-symphony/

How about a $500 "high end" music player for your Mac that's likely a frontend for iTunes anyway? The switch to file-based listening must have been a great boon for audiophile companies now that they don't even have to actually manufacture something.

e: also I like the conspicuously placed AC/DC track with the stupid "Best of" Mozart tracks. We are smart and cultured but we know how to rock and be cool too guys!!!

If it works and they sell some copies, all the more power to them.

# ? Jul 24, 2013 06:48

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

According to the site, its EQ even has a bunch of "presents"!

# ? Jul 24, 2013 07:57

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Detroit Q. Spider posted:

I don't generally pay a lot of attention to Audiogon these days but this caught my eye: http://hub.audiogon.com/amarra-symphony/

How about a $500 "high end" music player for your Mac that's likely a frontend for iTunes anyway? The switch to file-based listening must have been a great boon for audiophile companies now that they don't even have to actually manufacture something.

e: also I like the conspicuously placed AC/DC track with the stupid "Best of" Mozart tracks. We are smart and cultured but we know how to rock and be cool too guys!!!

There is a forums out there where they looped the output into a recording device on a secondary machine and then compared against other 'bit perfect' playback programs. The wav forms were identical, fully zoomed in. Basically you can buy JRiver Media Center for like 30 bucks and it'll do bit perfect output and that is the best you're ever going to get from a machine. Full stop.

This came about because people were wondering if JRiver MC on Mac was as good as it was on Windows. So they did a test dual booting a Mac. And they threw in other pieces of software for fun.

Then you run into people who paid ungodly amounts for these software pieces who will simply say they trust their ears more than anything else. Which may be true when you're unable to pipe digital output directly into digital recording. But for this? Sorry, you wasted your money.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 24, 2013

# ? Jul 24, 2013 19:18

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Philthy posted:

Then you run into people who paid ungodly amounts for these software pieces who will simply say they trust their ears more than anything else. Which may be true when you're unable to pipe digital output directly into digital recording. But for this? Sorry, you wasted your money.

The only people you can trust with their ears are the ones who play an instrument. Specifically ones where you make the sounds yourself ie. brass instruments.

# ? Jul 24, 2013 20:26

Wasabi the J: Jan 23, 2008; MOM WAS RIGHT

Philthy posted:

There is a forums out there where they looped the output into a recording device on a secondary machine and then compared against other 'bit perfect' playback programs. The wav forms were identical, fully zoomed in. Basically you can buy JRiver Media Center for like 30 bucks and it'll do bit perfect output and that is the best you're ever going to get from a machine. Full stop.

Foobar2000 does this for free, too.

# ? Jul 24, 2013 23:24

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Wasabi the J posted:

Foobar2000 does this for free, too.

For Windows. Mac users not so much.

A lot of older Mac Minis are being recycled into music servers stuffed behind TVs. JRMC + JRemote makes it a really affordable way to stream everything if you don't want to build a CAPS thingymabobber.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 25, 2013

# ? Jul 24, 2013 23:58

Khablam: Mar 29, 2012

The true hilarity in all this is that iTunes as a music player is just a front-end itself for quicktime, which is already bit-perfect with the right output settings selected.

# ? Jul 25, 2013 01:29

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Unfortunately, it doesn't support many formats and wasn't bit perfect for Windows until very recently.

I have no idea how the audio industry got what should be the easiest part of anything, so completely and totally messed up for so long.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jul 25, 2013

# ? Jul 25, 2013 05:35

Olympic Mathlete: Feb 25, 2011

This is not so much audiophile but it still seems pretty daft to me and certainly 'just because we could'. http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/19/4537724/lcd-soundsystem-frontman-returns-to-his-roots-with-amazing-custom-speaker-set

Guys from Soulwax and LCD Soundsystem create their own speaker setup. 8 stacks of these arrayed in a circular formation.

What's up with that tweeter layout (among other things)??

# ? Jul 26, 2013 13:25

RoadCrewWorker: Nov 19, 2007; camels aren't so great

quote:

Despacio, on the other hand, has been designed specifically to reproduce both modern dance music and "Hells Bells" as accurately as possible. To that end, the trio will only be playing vinyl through the system. "Vinyl sounds better," James says, simply, when quizzed why he's rejecting digital music.

I don't know, that sounds pretty in line with the rest of the thread.

Edit: wait, i hope "vinyl vs digital" isn't opening pandora's can of worms around here. :ohdear:

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jul 26, 2013

# ? Jul 26, 2013 13:32

GonadTheBallbarian: Jul 23, 2007

RoadCrewWorker posted:

I don't know, that sounds pretty in line with the rest of the thread.

Edit: wait, i hope "vinyl vs digital" isn't opening pandora's can of worms around here.

Vinyl sucks, argument over.

# ? Jul 26, 2013 14:16

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

I'm wondering how any needle will stay on a record with a system that large.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jul 26, 2013

# ? Jul 26, 2013 14:24

Olympic Mathlete: Feb 25, 2011

The line about a modern dance system not being able to play anything other than dance also made me laugh, the dude claims to have been a sound engineer, how can he not know what the gently caress EQ is?

# ? Jul 26, 2013 14:40

jonathan: Jul 3, 2005; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

88h88 posted:

This is not so much audiophile but it still seems pretty daft to me and certainly 'just because we could'. http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/19/4537724/lcd-soundsystem-frontman-returns-to-his-roots-with-amazing-custom-speaker-set

Guys from Soulwax and LCD Soundsystem create their own speaker setup. 8 stacks of these arrayed in a circular formation.

What's up with that tweeter layout (among other things)??

This thing is silly. It looks like a highschool kids woodwork project speaker box. Scratch that, kids are building folded and tapped horn bass bins as school projects now. With the space that thing takes up, one could be well into a Danley Soundlabs setup which would sound better than anything else available.

# ? Jul 26, 2013 17:30

Socket Ryanist: Aug 30, 2004

I laugh whenever someone talks about "reproducing" modern dance music. As if it existed in acoustic form at some point prior to coming out of your speakers.

I think what the guy is expressing is that modern equipment and recording media are "too perfect" and as a result it reveals the flaws in old recordings.

Socket Ryanist fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jul 26, 2013

# ? Jul 26, 2013 20:16

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Accurately reproduced flaws are considered worse than flaws that get hosed up even more?

# ? Jul 26, 2013 20:48

jonathan: Jul 3, 2005; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

50kw in home audio style McIntosh amps would be very pricey. And pretty.

# ? Jul 26, 2013 21:32

Olympic Mathlete: Feb 25, 2011

22k each apparently according to one interview. Totals something like 1.07 mill for the amount they have.

....I guess that's why they skimped on the actual stacks. :v:

# ? Jul 26, 2013 21:59

Socket Ryanist: Aug 30, 2004

Combat Pretzel posted:

Accurately reproduced flaws are considered worse than flaws that get hosed up even more?

It's hard for me to put into words what I mean but there are a lot of tracks that I thought were just fine when listening to them on little speakers or over 96k internet radio, but then when I got a higher quality recording and listened to it on headphones it became apparent just how rough the mixing and editing was.

Not the best example but one that I can think of: In "strawberry fields forever", the splice in the second pre-chorus is really obvious if you're listening to a digital copy on good speakers, but on vinyl the hiss and rumble kind of "glues" it together.

# ? Jul 26, 2013 22:42

Olympic Mathlete: Feb 25, 2011

There's more dorky details about the LCD/Soulwax soundsystem here. It's........ interesting.

http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-releases/dfa-and-despacio-engineer-john-klett-despacio-vinyl-only-soundsystem/

quote:

Each system is 5-way and it�s kinda obvious what it is: There are two 15s and it�s about 9 and a half cubic feet and the vents are huge but they�re not deep. Early bass reflex cabinets didn�t have the big shelf going back or pipes or any of that stuff, so those are tuned ducts; it�s also a reflex, they call them reflex cabinets, but this is where the vent is the thickness of the baffle.

These are really efficient speakers. For most of the night last night we were averaging about 80 watts, out of each of these mono-blocks, but we were getting very high levels in the middle of the floor because these put out almost 100db per watt.

So, same deal with the mids. It�s one mono-block per box. The stereo amplifier, because horns are much more efficient, we only have 450 watts for the horn and for the bullets and we cross these differently � I�m trying to not get too dweeby � but we�re crossing the horn about 2 octaves above what we could cross it at. I don�t like crossing horns near where they cut off. And the bullets are cut off way above where they normally cut off. You�re not stressing them that way, you can actually put a lot more power into them because you�re moving them less.

This thing on the top is called the birdhouse, because that�s where the tweeters live. And the horn thing is actually a drawer that pulls out and tilts down and it�s pulled out to time-align. All this is physically time-aligned, so there�s no timing other than just physical placement. And then the subs were bought in and they�re 21inch subs � pretty loud � and we�re actively crossing them over rather than using the crossovers in the subs.

So these are 1200 watts each, that�s what they�re rated for, they�ll put out a lot more than that. Last night at one point we were running the stack at about 2000-3000 watts, but we had like 10dbs of float on top of that. These things will actually give you a peak output that�s pretty close to 4000 watts peak.

The crest factor, because we�re using vinyl, there�s absolutely no dynamics, there�s no throttle, this is basically ungoverened. They [James & 2ManyDJs] have to control it back there. I have done the gain structure so it would be hard for them, but they could push this thing over the edge I guess, it wouldn�t be pleasant.

Has something been lost in translation on that last bit y'think? 'cos in the next paragraph he states there's loads of dynamics... :?

# ? Jul 30, 2013 16:27

jonathan: Jul 3, 2005; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

That doesn't make sense at all. I wonder if the term "dynamics" was not being used in the same context as crest factor. A misquote perhaps. Like, they're only using vinyl, so there is no dynamics with regards to readjusting gains when they play a vinyl then a CD or .Flac.

As for using vinyl, CD has better capability for dynamics.

Has there ever been music produced with crest factor of a movie ? IE 20db crest ?

# ? Jul 30, 2013 17:52

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

88h88 posted:

There's more dorky details about the LCD/Soulwax soundsystem here. It's........ interesting.

http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-releases/dfa-and-despacio-engineer-john-klett-despacio-vinyl-only-soundsystem/
The crest factor, because we�re using vinyl, there�s absolutely no dynamics, there�s no throttle, this is basically ungoverened.

Has something been lost in translation on that last bit y'think? 'cos in the next paragraph he states there's loads of dynamics... :?

, but in audiophilese.

# ? Jul 30, 2013 18:59

Neurophonic: May 2, 2009

88h88 posted:

This is not so much audiophile but it still seems pretty daft to me and certainly 'just because we could'. http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/19/4537724/lcd-soundsystem-frontman-returns-to-his-roots-with-amazing-custom-speaker-set

Guys from Soulwax and LCD Soundsystem create their own speaker setup. 8 stacks of these arrayed in a circular formation.

What's up with that tweeter layout (among other things)??

I heard this. It was average at best, god awful screechy on vocals and wallowy as hell on bass. Have heard plenty of systems in the same sized space sound a lot better for a fraction of the price.

Oh and there were 7 stacks there, at a total cost of �1.2mil. So of course, there's another 25 stacks on order�

Talking about watts and dB like they're totally interchangeable is just hilarious. In no way was that system anywhere near close to 4000 bloody acoustic watts of output.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 19:45

Panty Saluter: Jan 17, 2004; Making learning fun!

A screechy horn speaker?!?!?!

# ? Aug 2, 2013 01:09

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:56

jonathan: Jul 3, 2005; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Neurophonic posted:

I heard this. It was average at best, god awful screechy on vocals and wallowy as hell on bass. Have heard plenty of systems in the same sized space sound a lot better for a fraction of the price.

Oh and there were 7 stacks there, at a total cost of £1.2mil. So of course, there's another 25 stacks on order…

Talking about watts and dB like they're totally interchangeable is just hilarious. In no way was that system anywhere near close to 4000 bloody acoustic watts of output.

3 Danley Soundlabs Jericho horns, providing good sound for 110,000 seats. That's Penn State's budget sound upgrade. Probably cost less than 1 of those stacks above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_usTlJi2NA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

# ? Aug 2, 2013 07:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

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