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I'm not sure if the netcode is bad or it's just because I get paired with Japanese players a lot of the time.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:34
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Infinity Gaia posted:Both of those things just say "It's a traditional beat-em-up" to me. The netcode being bad just makes couch co-op more appealing, and the other thing has ALWAYS been a problem with beat-em-ups and it's impossible to really fix. Having to play through a story mode for hours to get to the co-op sounds terrible for a traditional beat 'em up.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:42
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RoyalScion posted:I'm not sure if the netcode is bad or it's just because I get paired with Japanese players a lot of the time. Also Japanese devs have a bad habit of forgetting that the world outside of Japan exists (even when they are planning to release their game there) and one way that is expressed is in making netcode that only works well if you live within several hundred miles of the other players, since that's all Japan needs to worry about.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:42
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ImpAtom posted:Having to play through a story mode for hours to get to the co-op sounds terrible for a traditional beat 'em up. It's only like an hour or two, and it only blocks out online co-op. Couch co-op can be done from the start. It's just trying to make more people actually play couch co-op over online co-op.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:48
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Infinity Gaia posted:It's only like an hour or two, and it only blocks out online co-op. Couch co-op can be done from the start. Nobody I know nearby will actually play this game co-op because they find the visuals disgusting so online co-op was basically the only thing I was looking forward to. v  v
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Jul 28, 2013 21:49
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ImpAtom posted:Having to play through a story mode for hours to get to the co-op sounds terrible for a traditional beat 'em up. But it's just such a japanese decision, it fits.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:49
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The main complaints I've found elsewhere are: - Higher difficulties are very grindy because it rewards having higher character stats than player skill. Bosses get a significant jump up in levels. - There's not enough content once you've seen all 9 stages because stages are relatively short. You're going to be repeating a lot of dungeons regardless of route. People are getting burned out around the 15-20 hour mark. - Shorter stages + Touch controls = the game seems to be designed for the Vita. Might just be Vita owners trying to get more people to play with on their platform  Haven't seen anything about the netcode, but I haven't noticed anyone lagging out or dropping inputs from livestreams with full online parties.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:50
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ImpAtom posted:Nobody I know nearby will actually play this game co-op because they find the visuals disgusting so online co-op was basically the only thing I was looking forward to. v What the hell? This game is beautiful. Unless they're talking about character designs, I suppose. And it's only two that are really THAT questionable. But it's probably best not to get into that argument again. Anyways that sucks man. This game is a blast in couch co-op.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:52
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Infinity Gaia posted:It's only like an hour or two, and it only blocks out online co-op. Couch co-op can be done from the start. Considering the target audience for Dragon's Crown in North America, couch co-op isn't as viable for quite a few people who would otherwise get it. A lot of nerds have to drive a long way for meet-ups in my country/state. 
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Jul 28, 2013 21:53
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You can unlock online co-op in a few hours on your first character if you just power through each story mission without regard for the small sidequests they give you early. Additional characters need to unlock online co-op individually, but FWIW you share NPCs from other characters, so you could just bring in a bunch of level 50 people whose bones you pillaged online and have them kill everything.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:54
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15-20 hours is like two weeks of playing for me now so that sounds good enough. Bring on the kicking, I wanna kick some dragons and chimeras in the face and then in their butts.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:55
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Gyoru posted:The main complaints I've found elsewhere are: This is basically the Diablo formula. I'm fine with lootwhoring it up all day.
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Jul 28, 2013 23:21
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Forcing players to play a couple hours before entering into online co-op will keep completely new players out of online co-op until they master the basics of gameplay, so you won't have totally clueless players making GBS threads up your game (or making GBS threads up others' games yourself). Also I can only hope I get 15-20 hours of play out of this; that'll be much more than I get out of most of the "40-100 hours of gameplay!!" games out there that I quit out of boredom about 5-10 hours in because they are about 30% content and 70% filler. I don't want to cheerlead this game I haven't yet played too much, but a lot of these "minuses" are sounding like pluses to me...
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Jul 28, 2013 23:37
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I can only wonder if loot gets interesting and varied later on ala let's say diablo 2 or path of exile itemization. From the early screenshots and videos it seems like the difference between items is only a higher attack/defense stat along with some boring modifier like +5 fire resistance. It would nice if there were artifact/epic level drops that can change how your character plays and/or what you want your build to be as. I doubt it though without a way to trade items.
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Jul 28, 2013 23:47
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p.crestmont posted:I don't want to cheerlead this game I haven't yet played too much, but a lot of these "minuses" are sounding like pluses to me... You say this, but there are still people like me with 3 close friends who don't live within driving distance who are willing to forgo 'newbishness' for the experience of playing together. I am not sure why games don't just utilize some kind of 'Play immediately with people on yours friends list / join random persons game must be unlocked via gameplay' option.
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Jul 28, 2013 23:58
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a cock shaped fruit posted:You say this, but there are still people like me with 3 close friends who don't live within driving distance who are willing to forgo 'newbishness' for the experience of playing together. I am not sure why games don't just utilize some kind of 'Play immediately with people on yours friends list / join random persons game must be unlocked via gameplay' option. I can see how that is a definite bummer in that case; and I agree letting friends list players co-op immediately, with random co-op as an unlock would have been better.
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Jul 29, 2013 00:27
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I just want to mention that the path split NPC in the Lost Woods, as well as the Path B boss, are both amazing and contribute heavily to this feeling like a DnD campaign. I mean, afterall what DM can resist, on the odd occasion, sticking in a Monty Python reference?
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Jul 29, 2013 01:00
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I finished the game. I guess I'll give my impressions. First up, I really like Kamitani's art and the whole atmosphere of the game. It's the whole reason I bother with these kinds of games and his style, the soundtrack, the art by Shigatake/Eldenka and so on, I just really love it. I'm probably biased, but I realize that all Vanillaware games are flawed in some regard, usually having incredible art/direction but lacking in the gameplay department. Dragon's Crown isn't really any different. Soundtrack is brilliant. I want to buy it and probably will on JP release, it's just incredibly soothing, sometimes I would just sit in town listing to this theme while checking my PC monitor. Graphics are also incredibly appealing, Vanillaware's known for it and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the majority of people purchasing this game are doing it because of how it looks before how it plays. The "stretchy 2D" might throw some people off (or even make them feel ill) but I personally like what they've done, especially how it makes the characters appear as if they're breathing (and not in a cheesy Neptunia way). Multiplayer unlocks at the half-way point of the game. Not 2 hours or whatever: half-way point. Then it's on to find the 9 talismans in online co-op for the latter half of the game, meaning taking the B route of every dungeon of the former part of the game, and lastly, the final dungeon. Dungeons have a ton of different runes scribbled into the walls which you won't notice when you're playing through the former part of the story, but will become apparent after you've learned about rune magic and how to use it. Unfortunately rune magic is finnicky to operate within online co-op, and there's lag present making things difficult to activate. This goes for doors and levers too, but it's still doable. Occasionally there'll be a post-dungeon "camp" minigame where you get to cook your own food for stat bonuses for the proceeding dungeon, and of course Vanillaware's always had a thing for highly detailed food. A neat little thing about this minigame is that it will actually include different parts of enemies you've killed, such as tentacles if you've killed the Kraken. Character classes seem fairly balanced with the exception of Elf, who was just too weak for me, and I had to change classes to Dwarf. Elf has limited arrow stock and has to hunt around in dungeons for more, of course they just drop out of nowhere for the player to pick them up. Sorceress has limited uses on a certain number of spells. I started to make a Sorceress, because I had the intention of pumping Blizzard and no other stat. Turns out I couldn't actually do this as skills have level incremental level requirements, but I was pretty much carried from the get-go due to how online NPCs. Basically if you're playing multiplayer and find people's bones, it's people that have died throughout multiplayer. You can also leave a dying message at the tavern and people will see it, I've seen a few in English which confirms that the online multiplayer is worldwide, although that was actually confirmed in a Japanese preview I saw for the game. I found someone who was level 34 and that helped me bring my Dwarf and Sorceress up from level 1 to multiplayer pretty quickly, among a few other online NPCs which I resurrected into my own game. It's kind of like Dark Souls and bloodstains, except you can resurrect them at the church and add them to your party. They're people's characters, just not actually there. I really liked this aspect. I guess it's kinda like Dragon's Dogma's pawns? Although I've never played that game, the concept is essentially the same. As for weapons, rares and stuff - it's basically just a matter of "keep S/A rank gear, ditch the rest". Most of my stuff is S/A rank at this point, and the game tells you which items are better based on their rank and how much their selling value is worth. Pretty common and I've seen this in a lot of other games, it helps me to see which weapons are better than the others. Weapons, mants, gauntlets, belts, amulets, etc. all have level requirements. I have a few high level bows collected throughout my travels on Elf which I won't be able to use for a good while. As for the final dungeon, this is where online NPCs come into huge play. If they die, that's it, they're dead and you've lost them. There's also no resurrecting yourself with gold (which I would assume is a throwback or hint at how arcade games are played - paying gold/quarters to continue). The game doesn't end after the final boss though, it pretty much asks you to collect 9 talismans to restore power to one of the Goddess statues on Hard, making you play through the latter half of the game again. Also, regarding online co-op and the final dungeon, it's only possible to online co-op with friends (under start -> add friend), no random players for online co-op. The same rules apply, no resurrecting possible. It feels very Diablo-esque in this regard. Hard's level cap is 65 (Normal being 35), and after a session in Hard I instantly shot up to level 42 from 35. I encountered a weird bug where my friend and I were stuck, enemies weren't responding and there wasn't no exit, so he left. That aside, online co-op has been fine, albeit laggy. I have an issue with how combos and the game's progression flows in online co-op, mostly because of 4-player co-op and the massive amount of things on screen at any given time. The art style on the characters and enemies is so similar that it's difficult to differentiate yourself from your surrounding enemies and background. Combined with the 4-player co-op and the amount of action on screen, this leads to a lot of "where am I? I can't see my character!" moments, which is... not that great. I guess it's something that the beat 'em up genre suffers from in general, but I have seen games with online co-op executed perfectly, like Castlevania HD. I finished up at around 25 hours to clear Normal, but I brought three characters into online co-op territory in the process. Anyway, I'm going to stop for today but I'm definitely going through Hard on my Dwarf. I'm not too sure about the other classes in general although I'd like to check out Amazon and Wizard at some point. Uh, any questions? Megalixir fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 01:36
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Megalixir posted:Uh, any questions? Do you have to reunlock online co-op via progression when you play on hard? That's my big curiosity at the moment.
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Jul 29, 2013 01:48
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Megalixir posted:Uh, any questions? You seem to have reached the level cap by the end of your normal playthrough, is that to be expected or did you grind for levels? Also, after achieving max level and getting somewhat good gear, is it still possible to significantly improve your character or are you stuck at that level of power? Finally, how difficult was the final dungeon? I guess I want to know if the game's difficulty is primarily dictated by your skill or your stats and gear.
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Jul 29, 2013 01:58
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I disagree about elf being weak, though I AM playing a bit of a gimmick build as a Holdout Dagger + Backstab elf. While I'm subpar at fighting the really big bosses, anything small enough to HAVE a back gets absolutely ludicrously destroyed by me.
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Jul 29, 2013 01:59
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Overlord K posted:Do you have to reunlock online co-op via progression when you play on hard? That's my big curiosity at the moment. You don't, "hard" is explained through a lore continuation pretty much. scissorman posted:You seem to have reached the level cap by the end of your normal playthrough, is that to be expected or did you grind for levels? Although I'm not the original poster, I was about ~32-33 when I finished the last boss; you'll probably be a bit higher, since he's decently difficult, so you'll probably have to grind more dungeons. I had some level 65 japanese resurrectee carry me through that fight. You can avoid most if not all attacks from bosses if you're careful, but obviously better gear gives you more margin for error. In a sense there are minimum dps "checks" I guess? By that I mean some fights can spiral violently out of control if you can't kill things fast enough (or don't pay attention  ).
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Jul 29, 2013 02:17
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All Path B bosses have a time limit of sorts, I'm quite sure. That can be seen as a DPS check, I suppose.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:21
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Overlord K posted:Do you have to reunlock online co-op via progression when you play on hard? That's my big curiosity at the moment. No, you don't. I already covered this in a spoiler above - Hard asks for more talismans, which is just like unlocking co-op for the first time. scissorman posted:You seem to have reached the level cap by the end of your normal playthrough, is that to be expected or did you grind for levels? I did grind a little, as I did help a friend obtain a few talismans by trying out online co-op. YMMV though. Since you're gaining levels as a joint effort and not based on what you kill independently, it's entirely possible to progress through the game with online NPCs and online co-op partners at higher levels carrying you through the game. You're stuck at that level of power as weapons/gear have level restrictions, there doesn't seem much diversity and even the game's inventory list will automatically go to the top choice of weapon/equipment to switch to. I guess you could find other level 35 requirement gear to improve your current level 35 requirement gear. By the time I was 35, I had some level 38 requirement hammers for my Dwarf but couldn't use them, since I wasn't gaining any further experience despite being Normal's level cap, but lacking the requirements for the final dungeon to open. Final dungeon took me and a friend a few tries. It's more boss than dungeon. I wouldn't say it's terribly difficult and I had more difficulty with the Red Dragon boss. We were waiting for other players to join, but it turns out it's not possible. It's not possible to jump into a final dungeon co-op game either, it's only possible to do the final dungeon by adding friends to your game or by adding resurrected online NPCs from the tavern to your party (which can permanently die in the final dungeon). Speaking of level caps, my friend found the bones of another player who was level 88, so since I now know Hard's level cap is 65, it seems there's another difficulty above Hard.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:24
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So for the other dungeons random people can join your co-op game, but the final dungeon prevents randoms from joining? And the only way to get a party for the final dungeon is to set it up beforehand with friends or NPCs?
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Jul 29, 2013 02:55
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The multiplayer sounds really phoned in. I can definitely imagine people burning out on the game without constant bro-op action. I wouldn't actually mind being restricted to my friends list but every impression posted makes it sound progressively worse. I just want to kill dragons with my buddies and get sweet loot.
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Jul 29, 2013 04:07
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Eddain posted:So for the other dungeons random people can join your co-op game, but the final dungeon prevents randoms from joining? And the only way to get a party for the final dungeon is to set it up beforehand with friends or NPCs? Yes.
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Jul 29, 2013 04:26
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To the 2 posters that have beaten it, which would you say are the most/least solo friendly classes? The vita has a great record of releasing fun online games when I got one to play at work.
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Jul 29, 2013 04:30
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OxMan posted:To the 2 posters that have beaten it, which would you say are the most/least solo friendly classes? The vita has a great record of releasing fun online games when I got one to play at work. It actually says in game: Fighter: Intended for beginners Amazon: Intended for intermediate players Dwarf: Intended for intermediate players Wizard: Intended for skilled players Sorceress: Intended for skilled players Elf: Intended for skilled players I'd say Fighter/Amazon/Dwarf are a good choice to start with. It doesn't really matter which. Sorc/Wizard have limited castings on their magic per dungeon and Elf has limited arrows, making them harder to use.
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Jul 29, 2013 05:00
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Hello what is the deal with the post-game "automatically generated" dungeon? Is there a randomized dungeon after you beat the game? e: "The Labyrinth of Chaos"
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Jul 29, 2013 05:11
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OxMan posted:To the 2 posters that have beaten it, which would you say are the most/least solo friendly classes? The vita has a great record of releasing fun online games when I got one to play at work. Definitely the melee classes, if you're soloing it's difficult sometimes to have the extra space needed to grab arrows or regen mp. The super-useful spells on Wizard and Sorc have limited castings, as mentioned earlier. The only dungeon that's restricted is the last one, although I admit having to wait a few hours for online co-op was kind of jarring. blat blat blat posted:Hello what is the deal with the post-game "automatically generated" dungeon? Is there a randomized dungeon after you beat the game? I haven't tried the Labyrinth of Chaos, so I can't speak about it. I've mostly just been romping around with Japanese people in random games from the Gate. As an aside there's the shop option of buying Amazon narration voice for 1m gold; I'm guessing you can buy the narration voices of the characters you finish. RoyalScion fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 05:18
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Megalixir posted:It actually says in game: From what I've seen on Twitch, Fighter and Dwarf are the easiest characters to play (and dwarf is incredibly amusing to watch in action). Amazon is where the skill level starts to ramp up. She seems to be the highest damage character (maybe except Wizard, but I haven't seen anyone play as him), but she can't take the level of punishment that the Fighter or Dwarf can. And to re-iterate: Dwarf looks really fun, and the different ways you can build him are amazing. I've seen variations where one Dwarf would spam their hammer smash attack and do massive aoe damage with lightning bolts that he'd call down. Another dwarf would do nothing but pick enemies up and fling them around the room and slam them into the ground causing shockwaves. Some other dwarf fought like a hammer-wielding Kenshiro. And one other guy's dwarf would perform airstrikes (dropping bombs across the entire screen) by launching himself with a body slam attack. If it isn't one of the more fun characters to play, it's at least the most fun to watch in action.
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Jul 29, 2013 07:33
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Amusingly enough, anecdotally I've seen Sorceresses and Dwarves the least, and Valkyries and Elves the most. Valkyrie is really squishy, but she can zoom around and is a lot of fun once you get the berserk skill; it turns you into a mulching machine, if you can dodge well.
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Jul 29, 2013 07:53
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Infinity Gaia posted:I disagree about elf being weak, though I AM playing a bit of a gimmick build as a Holdout Dagger + Backstab elf. While I'm subpar at fighting the really big bosses, anything small enough to HAVE a back gets absolutely ludicrously destroyed by me. Her specialty seems to be single target damage when using bows. At lvl 15 my charge shots were hitting for 800 followed by 2 rapid fire arrows for 500 each. I was a boss wrecking machine
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Jul 29, 2013 08:12
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RoyalScion posted:Amusingly enough, anecdotally I've seen Sorceresses and Dwarves the least, and Valkyries and Elves the most. Elf is definitely the most common. After that, most Youtube/Twitch people seem to be going after Amazon or Sorc. Fighter rarely gets picked, looks fairly boring though from watching people play him. Wizard I haven't seen at all. Dwarf is fairly rare, but after seeing poo poo like this, I have no idea why that would be aside from lack of tits or rear end.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:35
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Is this coming out on PSN? I'm in the EU but would definitely set up a US account to get it.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:41
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Thievery posted:Is this coming out on PSN? I'm in the EU but would definitely set up a US account to get it. August 6th is on Tuesday (for us) so most likely!
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Jul 29, 2013 16:59
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Haha, so apparently even in Japanese you can't use Japanese writing in names, but, since you can screw with the letters... people have found a way.   (incidentally in that last one they are named "rear end", "big boobs", "small boobs", "homo" and "cock". Keeping it classy.)
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Jul 29, 2013 17:43
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Looks like Homo and Cock need to step their game up. So for those who have played it, I'm curious how it feels. Playing both Odin Sphere and Muramasa recently, the former has a very deliberate pace to combat, while Muramasa has a kind of flow to it. Which one is Dragon's Crown closer to? Or is it something totally different? I hope I'm making sense.
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Jul 29, 2013 19:22
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I'm sorry to come in here like an ignorant child and ask questions that may have already been addressed, but I just learned that this came out earlier in Japan and am too excited and too hasty to read things, apparently. Questions: (and you can stop after Question 1 if the answer is negative.) 1) Is this out DIGITALLY in Japan on PSN. 2) If so, can it be shared? 3) If so, and I shared it with a Friendly Japanese person, on my American PS3, what, if any, would remain japanese? (Text? Dialog? Menus? Options? Item descriptions? Anything? 4) How much money would I have to aggressively throw at some goon in Japan to make it worth their while to share with me? I really need a new game, and I'm kinda pumped for this one. Thank you, that is all. 
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Jul 29, 2013 20:36
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