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Malak isn't actually that high level, as pointed out here. Not really surprising, since Tarquin's whole operation was specifically set up so they could get a good life without 'wasting' all their time adventuring. And if I understood the discussion earlier correctly, the vampire template makes it even harder.
e X fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 16:54
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e X posted:Malak isn't actually that high level, as pointed out here.
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Jul 31, 2013 17:02
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A thought: Staffs with spells in them in D&D have a finite number of charges of that spell. Durkon does not know "Protection from Daylight".
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Jul 31, 2013 17:10
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^^^^^ Good point. I guess the question is whether he will get the chance to go back to the library for a bit, or if he has to make that staff last. If I were the DM... well, I probably wouldn't have allowed protection from sunlight in the first place, but if I had, I would now rule that having a magic item that can cast it makes researching the spell again a lot easier. greatn posted:You can't make a wondrous item with a particular magic property, or cast permanency on a spell unless the book says you can. So Protection from Daylight, which is not a book spell, would never work as an enchanted ring. So no, he apparently figured that a vampire active in daytime doesn't need word of recall as a staple preparation 
NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 17:14
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Malack was also cocky as hell. He rarely faced anything he felt was a challenge.
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Jul 31, 2013 17:18
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Regalingualius posted:Don't forget assuming Nale would be too stupid to realize what would happen as soon as their mission was done, and even if he did, assuming that Nale would be far too injured to face him in a head-on fight OR Nale would have to contend with Tarquin and his men if he waited to recover. He was able to grapple quite effectively against Durkon, remember?
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Jul 31, 2013 17:34
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Hubris. It's a very important theme of the comic and bites almost every single character in the rear end. Why should Malack be an exception?
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Jul 31, 2013 17:35
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Eh. Two self casts and a staff that can cast it. I can see why he wouldn't want to waste one of his precious 6th level slots on it.
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Jul 31, 2013 18:02
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my dad posted:Hubris. Also, he would have had to leave Durkon behind to die. sebmojo fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 20:39
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PFlats posted:A thought: Do clerics have to learn spells like wizards now? I thought clerics got access to all the spells of their religion's spheres automatically, but I haven't read the rules since 2nd edition.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:19
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Angela Christine posted:Do clerics have to learn spells like wizards now? I thought clerics got access to all the spells of their religion's spheres automatically, but I haven't read the rules since 2nd edition. Yeah, but Malak said that he created that spell himself, hence his huge magical library, so i doubt it's something all Vampire casters have access too. Unless these sphere work as some kind of clerical wikipedia.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:25
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Clerics can research spells just like any other caster. Not sure how the fluff works out, but they still get the spell from their god.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:31
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Zonekeeper posted:Clerics can research spells just like any other caster. Not sure how the fluff works out, but they still get the spell from their god. Hey there, oh Great Mighty One, I have this fantastic idea that might just work...
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Jul 31, 2013 21:37
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Zonekeeper posted:Clerics can research spells just like any other caster. Not sure how the fluff works out, but they still get the spell from their god. I usually explained it to players that it was similar to coming to philosophical terms with an esoteric aspect of their religion and that expanded mindset and allowed them to be able to channel it through their faith with their god. Of course, that doesn't make any sense at all in the context of the rules. But, it would make the player happier.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:42
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e X posted:Yeah, but Malak said that he created that spell himself, hence his huge magical library, so i doubt it's something all Vampire casters have access too. Unless these sphere work as some kind of clerical wikipedia. Well, it wouldn't be a vampire cleric spell, it would be a Nergal cleric spell. A cleric of Thor might not be able to learn it at all.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:45
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Angela Christine posted:Well, it wouldn't be a vampire cleric spell, it would be a Nergal cleric spell. A cleric of Thor might not be able to learn it at all. Durkon probably isn't a cleric of Thor anymore. We had this discussion back when he got turned.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:47
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NihilCredo posted:You don't spontaneously cast heal or harm; 5th level cleric spells and above get turned into mass cure/inflict wounds instead, so he'd never burn those until he had spontaneously cast every 4th level and below spell.  Technically, there's an option in the PHBII for clerics to spontaneously cast domain spells instead of cure/inflict spells if your deity offers that particular domain and you've chosen to take it. One possible domain to spontaneously cast from is the healing domain. Spontaneously casting healing domain spells means you lose the ability to spontaneously cast Mass Cure Moderate Wounds and Mass Cure Serious Wounds in favor of the ability to spontaneously cast Heal, Regenerate, and Mass Heal. This is a fantastic trade if you're taking the Healing domain. Heal is pretty much the best healing spell in the game, and far outstrips the utility of Cure spells when it comes to preparing them for most casters.
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Jul 31, 2013 22:16
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terminal mehmet posted:I usually explained it to players that it was similar to coming to philosophical terms with an esoteric aspect of their religion and that expanded mindset and allowed them to be able to channel it through their faith with their god. I always understood it as that if a wizard researches a spell, he nerdily charts ley lines and interactions between magical auras until he finds a way to make the weave do what he wants it to do. If a cleric researches a spell, he meditates/reads on the nature of his god until he gets enlightenment and understanding of an additional facet of his deity.
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Jul 31, 2013 22:43
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LightWarden posted:
Or you know, when you're undead, harm is so undeniably useful that you'd take it over word of recall. Does everything have to be complicated by arcane rules and character builds?
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Jul 31, 2013 23:28
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my dad posted:Hey there, oh Great Mighty One, I have this fantastic idea that might just work... Well, in OotS that's kinda how it works. But in general, the gods are more or less just recharging the cleric's spell slots with a tiny bit of their own divine power. The cleric chooses what spells that power manifests as. So it's not like they could go "oops, all out of flamestrikes, try again tomorrow."
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Jul 31, 2013 23:58
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All this talk about religion and gods granting their followers spells... I have to wonder if any of the other gods had a system like ThorPrayer in place at any point.
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Aug 1, 2013 00:06
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W.T. Fits posted:All this talk about religion and gods granting their followers spells... I have to wonder if any of the other gods had a system like ThorPrayer in place at any point. The secret origin of why Nale really hated Malack.
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Aug 1, 2013 00:14
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Almost three hundred posts? What could have possibly happened that would -oh. Oh. 
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Aug 1, 2013 02:07
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terminal mehmet posted:Durkon probably isn't a cleric of Thor anymore. We had this discussion back when he got turned. Thor don't give a gently caress. He's drunk. He'll sign off on anything.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:11
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Given what we know, he's probably arguing with some obscure Norse deity about who gets his soul based on the exact circumstances of his death.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:32
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Colon V posted:Given what we know, he's probably arguing with some obscure Norse deity about who gets his soul based on the exact circumstances of his death. Already covered! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html Oddly enough, since I think vampirism is a disease, they'd be having the exact same argument.
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Aug 1, 2013 04:20
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Don't the sentient undead lose their souls? I thought short of a wish their souls can't be rezzed. Maybe that was a house rule?
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Aug 1, 2013 04:40
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His soul is in the vampire body. An undead must always be destroyed before anything (Wish and True Res included) can bring them back.
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Aug 1, 2013 05:50
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MonsterEnvy posted:His soul is in the vampire body. An undead must always be destroyed before anything (Wish and True Res included) can bring them back. I assume that's specific to vampires considering Xyklon has made more than one zombie out of a souless body.
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Aug 1, 2013 05:51
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ImpAtom posted:I assume that's specific to vampires considering Xyklon has made more than one zombie out of a souless body. It applies to all undead. You use negative energy to trap their soul in their corpse, thereby animating it. Even an old corpse has it's soul pulled back into the body. It's why creating undead is always an evil act, and why the animate dead spell has the evil descriptor.
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Aug 1, 2013 06:24
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Makes me kind of wonder if we'll end up seeing an actually Good necromancer at some point during the next story arc as an(other?) example of someone playing against the role one would think they've been consigned to by the choice in Class they've made.
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Aug 1, 2013 06:46
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Mylan posted:It applies to all undead. You use negative energy to trap their soul in their corpse, thereby animating it. Even an old corpse has it's soul pulled back into the body. It's why creating undead is always an evil act, and why the animate dead spell has the evil descriptor. But Xylkon specifically created a zombie from a body whose soul he stole and entrapped in a gem, so he's probably changed that rule from D&D.
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Aug 1, 2013 07:07
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Mylan posted:It applies to all undead. You use negative energy to trap their soul in their corpse, thereby animating it. Even an old corpse has it's soul pulled back into the body. It's why creating undead is always an evil act, and why the animate dead spell has the evil descriptor. I thought it was evil because it went against the natural order of things. Makes a lot more sense now why Red Cloak was so reluctant to have undead goblins.
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Aug 1, 2013 07:10
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ImpAtom posted:But Xylkon specifically created a zombie from a body whose soul he stole and entrapped in a gem, so he's probably changed that rule from D&D. That's because it's not a rule from D&D, it's (admittedly reasonable) elaboration based on the rules provided. All the rules say is that making undead is an evil act, and that you can't resurrect someone who was turned into an undead creature unless you destroy the undead creature first. It applies to any undead though, including stuff like naturally-formed ghosts, so it's not just a "the soul is trapped by the animation" thing. Idran fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 07:42
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:I thought it was evil because it went against the natural order of things. Makes a lot more sense now why Red Cloak was so reluctant to have undead goblins. But since undead can rise spontaneously (no necromancer involved in any way) wouldn't they be part of the natural order? Something like how diseases and parasites are? 
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Aug 1, 2013 09:07
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I'm really looking forward to when Tarquin learns about this. It'll be a huge personality reveal.
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Aug 1, 2013 09:58
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Out of curiosity, could Malack (or any other vampire mage) have just cast Darkness (which is a level 2 cleric spell) to protect himself from the sun's rays? Or would that just have made it difficult for him to see because it specifically still affects creatures with low light or infravision? Alternatively, could he have cast it on something above him to create some (possibly portable if the object was under his control) shade? This is assuming of course that he'd actually memorized it, but I mean hypothetically.
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Aug 1, 2013 10:33
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Pyradox posted:but I mean hypothetically. He could have done a billion things to save himself if he saw this particular sequence of events coming. In fact, he had a staff that protected him from sunlight and two copies of a spell that did the same, which is more than adequate 99.999% of time. He did not expect losing all three and didn't bother preparing even more contingency spells. Then he died. As for why he acted the way he acted in his final moments, he was suddenly betrayed and set on loving fire. We have hours to come up with a good reaction to the situation, while not being set on loving fire. He had a few seconds during which the guy who killed his 'children' was mocking him while standing within his reach. You could even consider this a part of Nale's plan. Why give Malack a chance to come up with a plan to save himself when you can goad him into spending his last moments uselessly trying to attack you? 
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Aug 1, 2013 10:43
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Colonel Cool posted:I'm really looking forward to when Tarquin learns about this. It'll be a huge personality reveal. "Unfortunate." *brief moment of grief for a fallen friend followed by continuing on like nothing happened* That's my guess, anyway. It seems to be the kind of character Rich is going with him.
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Aug 1, 2013 10:54
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We should distinguish here that there is a difference between mindless undead, like basic zombies and skeletons, and sentient undead like Both Xykon and Malack show that he's pretty much wrong about sentient undead, though, and those are the ones whose souls are trapped in their bodies. EDIT: *sigh* jng2058 fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 11:39
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