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Proposed Budget: $18,000 - $28,000ish New or Used: New or recently used (preferably no earlier than 2009ish) Body Style: 2 door, 4 seat coupe How will you be using the car?: It'll be my primary driver to and from work in Los Angeles (where I'll be living pretty close to the office) as well as my transportation for weekend cruising/dates/trips/etc. Plus, ahem, LA traffic. I'm basically looking for something somewhat fun to drive that is comfortable and won't cost an arm and a leg to maintain. I was initially swooned by the FRS/BRZ, but upon reading that their interior offerings aren't the hottest I'm a bit turned off. Having comfortable seating, non-chintzy interior, and good premium stereo options are a pretty big concern (aftermarket stereos are a possibility, but I'd really like to avoid that headache if possible). Frivolous gizmos like rear-parking cameras, heated seats, and the like really don't excite me and I typically view them as something I'd hardly appreciate, let alone want to pay $$$ for. What aspects are most important to you? First off, reliability is a big concern of mine. I first was looking at all sorts of tasty BMW 3s, Audi A4s, etc. until I read that reliability and repair costs can be a big problem. Thus, I've pretty much been ignoring most European offerings (that is, unless someone can convince me that my fears are unfounded and/or some exceptions can be had). As petty and superficial as it is, American vehicles are off the list based on their styling and public perception. As a result, I've been primarily focused on Japanese/Korean brands. The 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T Premium and a 2010-ish Infiniti G37 Journey Coupe are my current top contenders. As it stands, it sounds like both vehicles can be had for around $26,000 (per what I've gleaned from AutoTrader and TrueCar). At this point I want to know if there are any other options I should be seriously considering or if the G37 would be a much smarter buy given that it is used. Also, if there are some overlooked steals to be had at closer to the $20,000 mark that'll leave me with $6,000 to blow on a bitchin stereo and/or beer, all the better.
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Jul 31, 2013 20:44
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2014 Mazda6 (possibly in diesel trim if you can wait) Used Infiniti G37 Used Acura TSX Honda S2000 If you break your rule about no domestics: Ford Focus ST Ford Mustang GT
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Aug 1, 2013 00:42
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katzinator posted:Proposed Budget: $18,000 - $28,000ish Are you looking for a manual or automatic? If you want a stick, it'll be harder to find them used. New you can get whatever you want. How critical are rear seats, and how often will they be used? The Genesis and the G37 rear seats are a disaster. I am 10 times happier in the back of a Mustang than in the back of a Genesis or G37 after being stuck in the back of each of them for more than an hour. I can sit like a human being in the back of a Mustang with my head and neck straight up. I'm going to agree with Phone that your shortlist that strictly meets your needs should be the Acura TSX and Infiniti G37. If you're willing to consider 4-door cars, 2-seater cars, or American cars there are way more interesting options.
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Aug 1, 2013 19:49
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Weinertron posted:Are you looking for a manual or automatic? If you want a stick, it'll be harder to find them used. New you can get whatever you want. Agh, I should have specified that I'll be needing an automatic given LA traffic's horrendous reputation. While having back seats are a bit of a must, they likely won't be used very often at all. I'm 6'1" and indeed found the back seats of the Genesis Coupe to be pretty much unusable when I tried to sit back there. That said, my significantly shorter female friend said she was perfectly okay sitting in the rear. While I have yet to test drive a G37 coupe, I assume it'll be roughly the same story. As loving awesome as many of the two-seater cars are out there (Miata, 370Z, I'm looking at you), I feel like having the extra couple of seats, as uncomfortable as they may be, would be a lifesaver when in a pinch. I've been recently going back and scoping out some of the sportier 4-door options to put things in perspective, but I'm still leaning toward the coupe idea simply because this will pretty much be my one time to own a more "fun" car in my oh-so-poetically-fleeting youth. Still, I appreciate the Mazda-6 suggestion and will take a look into it.
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Aug 1, 2013 21:00
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katzinator posted:I've been recently going back and scoping out some of the sportier 4-door options to put things in perspective, but I'm still leaning toward the coupe idea simply because this will pretty much be my one time to own a more "fun" car in my oh-so-poetically-fleeting youth. Still, I appreciate the Mazda-6 suggestion and will take a look into it. If you want a fun 4-seater coupe, your best bet really is a Mustang GT. I know you may have some preconceptions about American cars, but at least go take a quick drive in one. It really is the most fun you're going to have in a 4-seater car with an automatic transmission. 390 ft*lb of torque in a V8 that loves to rev. Other than that, you've really picked the best in class in the narrow category you're looking at with the G37 and Genesis Coupe. For what it's worth, a close friend of mine drove a G37 IPL for a year and hated it before trading it in for a Genesis Coupe GT, with the 3.8 and 8 speed auto. He insists that the $20k cheaper Gencoupe is the better car, overall more fun to drive.
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Aug 1, 2013 21:09
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Weinertron posted:If you want a fun 4-seater coupe, your best bet really is a Mustang GT. I know you may have some preconceptions about American cars, but at least go take a quick drive in one. It really is the most fun you're going to have in a 4-seater car with an automatic transmission. 390 ft*lb of torque in a V8 that loves to rev. Duly noted. I fully understand that the American automakers have been caught up in performance for some while now, but it is mostly the styling that I strongly dislike about their vehicles. Still, I really value your input on this and will give it some more consideration. The anecdote about the G37/GC is definitely the kind of stuff I'm looking for. It makes considerable sense to me that a "hungry" automaker like Hyundai trying to prove themselves in the US market would put out the best drat "bang for the buck" car they can at this point in time.
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Aug 1, 2013 21:18
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If you must have a two door coupe that is Japanese the accord coupe is a pretty solid car. I wouldn't take it over a mustang considering they are priced rather similarly but oh well. There's also the Altima coupe and the Mitsubishi eclipse but the accord is probably the pick of that particular litter.
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Aug 1, 2013 21:48
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Throatwarbler posted:If you must have a two door coupe that is Japanese the accord coupe is a pretty solid car. I wouldn't take it over a mustang considering they are priced rather similarly but oh well. There's also the Altima coupe and the Mitsubishi eclipse but the accord is probably the pick of that particular litter. I drove the EX-L the other week. It was pretty comfy and didn't look half bad, but wasn't nearly as sporty as the Genesis. While I should've tried the V6 version, I have a hard time with the $30k price tag on a plain-Jane Accord.
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Aug 1, 2013 22:06
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I posted about my experience with the g37x 4 door recently. If you go back a bit I'm sure you can find it. In short, I love the car.
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Aug 2, 2013 00:09
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AlecEiffel posted:Hi! COMPLETE noob to cars. Okay, so ever since I wrote this post... I've hit the books, aka internet super hard. It's incredible how much one can go from knowing nothing to at least a little more than nothing  So at this point, I've compiled about 20 cargo vans within a 100 mile radius of Bloomington, IN in an excel spreadsheet. All ranging from like '89 to '02, Dodge, Ford, GMC, Chevy, E250, B2500, different mileages and what not. I plan on calling every single one of these individuals to find out mileage, rust, maintenance, history, VINs and etc. Then I hope to run autocheck on them all, filter out which are worth keeping, then traveling to said places, test driving them then consult mechanic. Or is that overkill for just a beater cargo van? Anyway - I've learned a few important things... such as the importance of maintenance and how it can prolong a vehicles life for a looooong time. And it also seems like at this price point and such high mileage... it's a "crap shoot". Thus why I'm looking for well maintained vans..
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Aug 2, 2013 10:33
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AlecEiffel posted:So at this point, I've compiled about 20 cargo vans within a 100 mile radius of Bloomington, IN in an excel spreadsheet. All ranging from like '89 to '02, Dodge, Ford, GMC, Chevy, E250, B2500, different mileages and what not. I plan on calling every single one of these individuals to find out mileage, rust, maintenance, history, VINs and etc. If you are really intending to use this as a for-profit business moving stuff for people, you need a small business loan of some sort and a better van than this. A $2k van will take significant work to get it in good enough shape to reliably haul stuff long distances and be beaten on every day, otherwise it would be worth more than $2k.
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Aug 2, 2013 16:01
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Some complicated poo poo is about to come down and I'm going to have to give up my current car (surrendering it in the course of bankruptcy proceedings). So... Proposed Budget: Less than $3000 (preferably a lot less) New or Used: Obviously Used Body Style: No preference, although hatchbacks are my first love (my first car was an 88 Golf) How will you be using the car?: To/from work about 32 miles round trip, no long distance (as in, out of state) driving. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Not at this price point... What aspects are most important to you? In order of importance; Reliability (gotta get to work), economy (decent MPG), ease of repair (I know what I'm doing in this department and have tools) & reasonably cheap parts when needed. Not much of a budget, and I want something that is built like a brick shithouse. Cars I have owned/driven, in order: 1988 VW Golf GL 5-door: Man I loved this car. On the other hand, I never had to work on it. At that age I didn't know how. 1992(?) Volvo 740 Wagon: Love/hate. She was not well cared for in her previous life, so I ended up with a lemon of sorts, but...it was nice. Leather, butt warmers, I could throw my mountain bike in the cargo area...then the transmission exploded. So I'm wary of Volvos but at the same time I appreciate their quality. 2007 Dodge Stratus V6: gently caress this car. gently caress it bad. Why? Couldn't do a goddamn thing to it. I've never seen such a ridiculous engine compartment, and don't even get me started on what it took to change the drat spark plugs. Christ. 2003 VW Passat GLX V6: Oh man I loved this car. Why did I give it up. WHY. I loved everything about it. 2008 (Bought New) VW GTI 5-dr: I also loved this car, but guess what? Negative equity blows. To the tune of $629 a month. (Current) 2011 VW Jetta SE: Feels cheap. Not a fan, but I had to deal with a VW dealer to dump the GTI. REALLY not a fan of the shitbox 2.5L 5cyl engine. Wimpy, and yet it burns too much gas... I'm also willing to take on a project car as long as the ultimate monetary cost doesn't exceed my budget. I'd even take a salvage title although I'll admit I know nothing about that.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:33
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At less than $3k, you can set aside most of your criteria except reliability, because if that's your most important point, it's going to dominate your purchasing decision. Basically, at this price point, you're looking a lot of cars that are at or near the end of their depreciation. They've got lots of miles, they're older, they're not in perfect condition. A huge number of them will have impending serious mechanical issues. If you don't do your own mechanical work, you want a car that is not about to blow a head gasket, have an auto transmission failure, or need all of its bushings and engine mounts replaced. So, I'd say look at almost anything at your price bracket, and just look for cars with good maintenance records available, and owners willing to let you take the car for a PPI before you buy. Aim for cars with good longevity and reliability records of course (and I'm afraid that means probably not a VW) and probably avoid the cars that carry a premium on the used market (because they'll cost more for what you get: that means hondas, toyotas, and enthusiast cars). Given economy is also a factor, obviously avoid pickup trucks and SUVs. Try for something with 4 cylinders and 4 doors. Maybe like a nissan sentra or whatever. Scour craigslist, consider dozens of cars, try to find the diamond in the rough. If you can drive a stick, get that; if you can't, maybe learn because a mantran is more reliable and also cheaper to repair than an auto. For cheap parts, prefer domestics and cars that sold in huge quantities over imports and rarer models. Regarding salvage titles: I really don't think it's wise, even though maybe you don't care about resale value (which is poo poo for a salvage). Your insurance will probably be much more expensive and/or payout far less on a salvage titled car, if they're willing to insure you at all. The car's safety may be compromised, and even if you're in deep financial straits I don't think it's worth an increased risk of injury or death if you're in a serious accident. If I were in your place I'd prefer taking the bus to driving a salvage-title car where I can't be sure the structure will properly absorb energy in a wreck. If you do decide to get a salvage-title car, you should get it for at least half off what an equivalent non-salvaged car would cost; you should have it inspected and make sure the shop doing the inspection knows it's a salvage; and your inspection should include putting it up on a frame rack to check the integrity and straightness of the frame. Even then, you may problems down the road, if there was hidden damage or poorly-repaired damage you can't see without opening the engine, transmission, frame, or whatever. Good luck!
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Aug 3, 2013 03:43
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Grab a Miata. It's reliable, parts are dirt cheap, perfect platform for a project later on, and decent economy. There's also nothing dumb that goes catastrophically bad unless if you manage to find a 90-91 that has the short nose crank issue. If you keep your foot out of it, you can average 30mpg on the freeway going 65.
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Aug 3, 2013 15:59
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Powdered Toast Man posted:Some complicated poo poo is about to come down and I'm going to have to give up my current car (surrendering it in the course of bankruptcy proceedings). At your budget look at a crown vic. They dont get the best gas mileage but they are very reliable. End of life panther platform has all the kinks worked out. Everything is cheap to fix. How much driving do you do a year?
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Aug 3, 2013 16:17
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Alright... my 2000 Honda Civic LX (197 0000 km) is starting to show its age. I bought it used about 5 years ago, and while it has been behaving pretty well over those 5 years I've owned it, it's starting to break down (had to replace the struts, lots of rust and most places due to Canadian winters, now have to replace the brake line). It's time to start looking at a replacement. I need suggestions! Proposed Budget: $5000 - $7000 New or Used: Used Body Style: 4-door sedan How will you be using the car?: To and from work (suburbs to downtown core. 1 hour each way). Shopping. Nothing unusual, really. What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, fuel economy, and ease of repair. Stick shift preferred. I've been a Honda guy for as long as I've been driving, but I'm definitely open to looking at other makes. Any suggestions? melon cat fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 16:18
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melon cat posted:Alright... my 2000 Honda Civic LX (197 0000 km) is starting to show its age. I bought it used about 5 years, and while it has been behaving pretty well over those 5 years I've owned it, it's starting to break down (had to replace the struts, lots of rust and most places due to Canadian winters, now have to replace the brake line). It's time to start looking at a replacement. I need suggestions! Hondas are pretty notorious for rust, which isn't helping things. Plus $5-7k won't get you anything much newer. Price will get you into a newer (~2007) Ford Focus, which I would recommend. I must prefer the 2007 and earlier, but there's really nothing wrong with the 2008+ except blandness.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:33
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I have a couple questions about employee pricing, specifically Chrysler's: 1. If I get employee pricing it that it or is the still some haggling room? 2. Do I then have to use the dealer's / Chrysler's financing or can I bring my own?
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Aug 3, 2013 22:05
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I wish I would of found this thread first its probably a better place for this. So long story short I have to get a new car asap. I've always wanted a s2000 and came across this one for sale. Any thoughts on it? Do these make a good daily driver? Reliability is my number one concern. Anything i should look out for? And is this a decent price? http://www.breakawayhonda.com/mobi/VehicleDetailPage.aspx?vin=JHMAP11453T004831 Not so interesting side note this would be my second car ever after rocking an 89 dakota for ten years. Also my first manual if I do get it. Now my other option I'm considering is that since I work for BMW manufacturing I can get a pretty good deal on a brand new mini cooper s. I forget the exact price off hand and it'd be a lease (I like the Cooper s but I don't think I'd want to own it, I rather lease it till I find something else). This would be insurance and maintenance included. That sounds a little better but man I'd love an s2000 and now that I'm single again I could get one. Also to the dude above me if thiers works like BMWs that price is the price bottom line and you use there financing.
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Aug 4, 2013 02:38
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Phone posted:Grab a Miata. It's reliable, parts are dirt cheap, perfect platform for a project later on, and decent economy. There's also nothing dumb that goes catastrophically bad unless if you manage to find a 90-91 that has the short nose crank issue. Hmm, this interests me. Thanks for the advice, y'all.
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Aug 4, 2013 02:50
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katka posted:I wish I would of found this thread first its probably a better place for this. That's not a great price unless the car is pristine. Good daily driver depends on what your daily commute looks like. S2000s are mostly very reliable with some known issues with soft top wear.
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Aug 4, 2013 03:48
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iamnotcreative posted:I have a couple questions about employee pricing, specifically Chrysler's: 1. Yes. You may want to try to negotiate first, since sometimes you can get a better deal, and then if you can't beat the employee pricing, you can mention that you are eligible. Note that there are usually a couple different kinds of discounts, and I know they're different for UAW, White Collar and Suppliers. 2. At least for supplier pricing, you can pay cash or BYO.
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Aug 4, 2013 15:00
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My beloved V70R is starting to get electrical gremlins that are making me nervous about getting stranded, especially since my wife and I take long trips. It has over 200k and I'm looking for something I can get more utility out of Proposed Budget: 30k, but willing to pay a little more if it gets me more New or Used: Used Body Style: SUV. Would consider a pickup , but I like the extra passenger room and enclosed cargo area of the SUV How will you be using the car?: Primarily daily driving. I plan to tow a car trailer and do light off roading. It seems that very few trucks are good at both and those that are have some sort of air suspension which is why I have my choices so limited What aspects are most important to you? 7000+lb towing capacity. Decent off road capability. By decent I mean wont get stuck in sand on the beach and can do the same trails a stock JK could do, doesnt need to climb rocks. Heated seats. Nice interior. A dash I would like to look at Dual/quad zone climate control Nice but not necessary: Bluetooth-preferably with audio streaming Navigation Back up camera Leather 3rd row seating HIDs My current top 3 Range Rover VW Touareg Land Cruiser/LX470 Have also considered but havent completely ruled out Range Rover Sport Tahoe/Yukon X5 Q7/Cayenne Any other ideas or any comments about the above? kmcormick9 fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 19:04
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It seems like a Discovery/LR3/4 would also serve your purposes for less cost unless you must have the fancy RR looks. They all have air suspension though. Can the Q7 and X5 really tow 7,000lbs? The Escalade seems like it would work for you, and also cconsider a Toyota Sequoia with the 5.7l. You can get those from the factory with lockers and low range and a Torsen center diff, the air suspension is optional and they're pretty bullet proof reliability-wise. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 19:59
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kmcormick9, A Ford Expedition would also suit your needs unless you just don't care for them. The Limited trim is quite nice, the only thing it wouldn't have is the HID's. Those don't seem to be available on any model. The Limited or King Ranch models would have all the creature comforts you could want though. If you don't care for Ford vehicles, I would look at a comparable Tahoe/Yukon or any Toyota offering. Personally I wouldn't consider a used Range Rover or VAG vehicle for a daily driver.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:42
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The Durango can tow 7400 lbs with the V8 and will have everything else on the list. I suppose if you are considering the RR then the Durango should do it too.
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Aug 5, 2013 00:22
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I did some preliminary research on the 100 Series Land Cruiser/LX470 and this is what I remember offhand: - Towing capacity is rated at 6500lbs - They get sub-10mpg while towing - You might need to put airbags in the back - Main difference from the 4Runner/Sequoia is that they are built off of the truck chassis (tad bit rougher ride) I'm still a few years out from towing, but I'm still considering the LX470 and I might see if I could swing a Ford Flex Ecoboost (if the 3.5L TT doesn't turn out to be a pain in the rear end).
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Aug 5, 2013 01:47
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Pretty much any gasoline powered vehicle is going to get sub 10mpg while towing a large load. It's just expected.
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Aug 5, 2013 02:32
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Powdered Toast Man posted:Some complicated poo poo is about to come down and I'm going to have to give up my current car (surrendering it in the course of bankruptcy proceedings). My car is a mid-to-late 90s ford escort manual transmission. Tinny as poo poo, I got mine at 150k miles for 2k, but even a novice wrench monkey like me can keep it running (currently at 213k miles and the worst issue I have now is my A/C unit), and it gets 32-36 mpg since I drive mostly highway. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 14:57
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Help, I'm having a baby and it won't fit in my Mini Cooper! Proposed Budget: Under 20K (US), including a trade-in for which I hope to get at least 6-6.5K. We'd pay cash on the balance after the trade. I've never traded in a car before so any advice on that is appreciated too. New or Used: Used, preferably later model still on warranty (nothing earlier than 2011) Body Style: Looking for a small SUV with 4WD; we have gotten some recommendations from friends who really like the Honda CR-V, so that is the range/type of car we are going for. Also, since we live near a Honda plant it would be nice to support the local economy as well and we already have a Civic that's trucking along at 180K+ miles and is pretty reliable. We aren't married to the idea of a Honda, but based on my initial research it seems like they are the lowest price option (both outright and maintenance) and best fuel economy. How will you be using the car?: Will be mainly using it for family transportation: ourselves and baby. So space to haul a modest amount of baby gear and safety will be important. What aspects are most important to you? As I said above, I'd like it to have ample space to carry carseat/stroller and groceries, etc. comfortably. However we don't really want anything bigger than the CR-V size so we're willing to sacrifice a little on that point. Safety, reliability, and cost of maintenance are probably the other most important factors. We'd probably want the base trim model in whatever we choose, we are not frilly people and don't need all the bells and whistles.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:22
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New Weave Wendy posted:Help, I'm having a baby and it won't fit in my Mini Cooper! It sounds like you've sold yourself pretty hard on a CRV, as you want something with at least as much space as a CRV but no bigger than a CRV and want a Honda. However, there are some other really good options in the same class that are worth a look, and slightly used Hondas are generally a terrible value because everybody wants a slightly used Honda. If you're looking for a compact CUV, definitely check out the Mazda CX-5, and think about if you really need AWD. You're not going to find a real 4WD system in any vehicles in the CUV class, and most of them have excellent traction in snow and such anyway with the normal FWD and decent tires.
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Aug 5, 2013 16:17
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People in AI are preoccupied with the Mazda because it's from the same company that makes their Miatas and it drives pretty nice with a manual trans. If you don't care about that then it's a slow box with a bad interior and mediocre crash test scores. Also you're going to have trouble finding one for under 20 since it's a 2013 car. Best bet for you would be one of the 2nd generation GM Theta cars (2010+ Chevy Equinox, GMC Terrain, Cadillac SRX). With the 4 cylinder they are pretty reliable and fuel efficient with very good crash safety while also being somewhat bigger than the CRV for all your baby momma poo poo. Second choice would be a Dodge Journey, which is even bigger and can be had with a 3rd row but is noticably crappier in most other respects at least until the 2011 refresh.
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Aug 5, 2013 17:25
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Throatwarbler posted:People in AI are preoccupied with the Mazda because it's from the same company that makes their Miatas and it drives pretty nice with a manual trans. If you don't care about that then it's a slow box with a bad interior and mediocre crash test scores. Also you're going to have trouble finding one for under 20 since it's a 2013 car. When I test drove one (with the 2.5L) back-to-back against the CR-V LX, I had a hard time finding any significant difference in how they drove, and it's not like these are cars you want to fling into a corner. The CR-V came in about $3k+ cheaper too, by virtue of the base LX having a hell of a lot more going for it than the base CX-5 (the only one that is priced similarly is the 2.0 with a manual and fuckall for other features). I also have a lot more confidence that I won't have to be blasting carbon out of the intake tract of the Honda's K24 (since it's not direct injection) and more confidence in the Honda's resale. Even though it's likely that by the time I sell it, it'll have something like 200-300k on it (three months, 8200 miles so far!) The CX-5 is a better looker to me, at least. But the move to the 2.5 Skyactiv killed the fuel economy advantage it had over the rest of the market, in order to make up the power deficit it had. Are you financing the remainder, and does your "under 20k" need to include tax/tags/etc? What interest rates are you able to get for a used car? Honda Financial is doing 0.9% on CR-Vs for 60 months so depending on your situation the new option may actually be more in your reach than you realize. I paid right about $21.6k for a new CR-V LX at the end of April. Regarding the trade... typically the dealer uses it as a means to try and gently caress you over. They'll throw a lowball at you. Note that for the most part condition of the trade doesn't matter since in most cases they're just going to turf it to auction, and they're already accounting for doing a full detail / inspection in their lowball offer to you. Where the trade can work out in your favor, though, especially if they give you a competitive offer for it, is that at least in AZ (and I think this is the case in most states?) the trade reduces your taxable amount by the value of the trade. So if you're paying 9% sales tax, and they give you $6000 for trade-in, it ends up being $6,540 off of your total purchase amount.
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Aug 5, 2013 17:51
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Thanks ThroatWarbler and Weinertron, I'm not 100% sold on a Honda so I'll do some researching on the Mazda and GM suggestions mentioned as well.IOwnCalculus posted:When I test drove one (with the 2.5L) back-to-back against the CR-V LX, I had a hard time finding any significant difference in how they drove, and it's not like these are cars you want to fling into a corner. The CR-V came in about $3k+ cheaper too, by virtue of the base LX having a hell of a lot more going for it than the base CX-5 (the only one that is priced similarly is the 2.0 with a manual and fuckall for other features). I also have a lot more confidence that I won't have to be blasting carbon out of the intake tract of the Honda's K24 (since it's not direct injection) and more confidence in the Honda's resale. Even though it's likely that by the time I sell it, it'll have something like 200-300k on it (three months, 8200 miles so far!) This is really helpful too, thanks. Plan is to pay cash since we are able to and it would hopefully get us a better deal. The 20K-with-trade budget would ideally include tax/tags/other fees. Also, I was under the impression that my state offers tax reduction when trading in but apparently this only applies when trading for new cars - not used. So I'm guessing there exists a possible scenario where we could come out ahead if we sprung for a new one in or within a couple thousand of that price range, which opens up my question a little bit. New Weave Wendy fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 18:14
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Cash will not get you a better deal, at all. In fact you should not mention you are paying cash until you have already finalized a price in your negotiations. Dealerships want to finance cars; it's a huge revenue stream for them. e. And think about it: if you finance a car through anyone other than the dealer, all the dealer is going to get is cash anyway. If you go through the car maker's financing arm it's the same, but the dealer will get incentives from them (e.g., money) as a reward for setting up the financing. And if the dealer finances you directly, they get a stable cash stream (the interest on the loan) on a secured loan (they can repossess and resell your car if you default). This means the loan is extremely low risk for them. Cash is the worst of the above options from the dealer's perspective. Normal advice is also to not negotiate on the value of your trade-in (or even mention you have one, necessarily) until you've settled on the final price of the car you're buying. This way the dealer is not monkeying with the new car's price to account for a seemingly good deal on the trade-in. So it goes A: Bargain hard on the "out-the-door" price for the new car you want. When they pressure you to decide if you want financing or have a trade-in, say "it's an option but I'd prefer not to discuss it until we have a final price on this car." B: Offer the trade-in and tell them what you want for it. They will offer you something a lot less than that, most likely: negotiate on it until you have settled. C: Indicate you want to pay cash. They may offer you financing deals that may have incentives that attract you over cash. Make sure that any financing you agree to is based on final out-the-door price you negotiated, and not based on "monthly payment" adjustments that wind up costing you more. D: Verify all the numbers in the paperwork. Don't sign anything with numbers you don't recognize or understand on them. Good luck! Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 18:35
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New Weave Wendy posted:Thanks ThroatWarbler and Weinertron, I'm not 100% sold on a Honda so I'll do some researching on the Mazda and GM suggestions mentioned as well. Used cars are expensive these days, this segment is in high demand and quite competitive, and new cars are getting better faster so you might do better with a new one anyway, esp. if you can stretch to $25k. That opens you up to the new Subaru Forester and Mitsubishi Outlander which both offer superlative crash safety, and the Mitsubishi will give you a very long warranty too.
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Aug 5, 2013 19:21
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Leperflesh posted:Dealerships want to finance cars; it's a huge revenue stream for them. This has flown under the radar for a long time and most people don't think about it. It's probably one of the last parts of a vehicle purchase transaction people don't fight over. By the time your in finance and you've agreed to a rate you've probably breathed a sigh of relief. You just have to fend off the undercoating and platinum warranty offerings and you can go home with your car. My wife, who works at a very large credit union that does a massive amount of vehicle loans just shared this with me. Customer Payment: $897 Principle: 675 Dealer: 57 Interest: 165 The dealer part comes out of the interest charge the customer sees. It's a small, but constant stream of cash long after the sale is over. This dealer could have sold this guy his truck for 0 profit and still make $57 x 60 or 72 months profit off of him. Multiply that by 1500 to 4000 cars a year being sold and you have a tidy income stream. How many folks do you know have bought vehicles and had finance say "Well we couldn't quite get you that 3.5% you wanted, but we got you at 4%" and people just go with it. A high volume dealership can (and many do) sell cars at 500 over invoice all day, and with fees, interest spread, manufacturing bonuses and kickbacks make a very nice profit. fake edit: That car payment is not abnormal for her to see. We live in Texas and the number of folks who finance top of the line pickups with payments like that is pretty normal. She's seen Escalades and Yukon Denali's purchased with negative equity rolled in running 850 a month for 84 months... pure insanity, but people make the payments. Fully loaded F350 King Ranch, or RAM 3500 Laramies can top out over 70K, maybe more with dealer adds. skipdogg fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 19:27
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Leperflesh posted:Cash will not get you a better deal, at all. In fact you should not mention you are paying cash until you have already finalized a price in your negotiations. Hell, in my case, that 0.9% APR also came with $750 extra down payment put in by Honda Financial. Even accounting for interest over the life of the loan, I would've spent more by paying cash! Also, and this goes a bit to the limits of my BFC-type abilities, but if you can get 0.9% on a loan and you have ~$15k laying around... couldn't you probably find somewhere that can get you a better-than-0.9% return on investment? If you could even average 2% on money that you would otherwise put into a down/cash purchase versus a 0.9% loan, you're coming out ahead by taking that financing.
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Aug 5, 2013 19:52
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IOwnCalculus posted:Also, and this goes a bit to the limits of my BFC-type abilities, but if you can get 0.9% on a loan and you have ~$15k laying around... couldn't you probably find somewhere that can get you a better-than-0.9% return on investment? If you could even average 2% on money that you would otherwise put into a down/cash purchase versus a 0.9% loan, you're coming out ahead by taking that financing. Bingo. The only practical reason to put a decent downpayment (20%) on a car is to ensure you're never upside-down on it. There is utility in that, but otherwise your money is best used in any number of investments. Anything under 2% is essentially free money by historical standards.
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Aug 5, 2013 21:24
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IOwnCalculus posted:Hell, in my case, that 0.9% APR also came with $750 extra down payment put in by Honda Financial. Even accounting for interest over the life of the loan, I would've spent more by paying cash! The one caveat to that is that you need to put enough down that you are never upside-down on the car, or you'll have to pay for gap insurance to cover the difference and the cost of the gap insurance is likely to exceed the additional interest you're earning with your investment. Anyway I just want to add to this: Leperflesh posted:Cash will not get you a better deal, at all. In fact you should not mention you are paying cash until you have already finalized a price in your negotiations. Here's the scenario. You go into the dealer and tell him you're interested in <%car>, which has a sticker of $19,999. The sales guy says "will you be financing this today? I can get you a killer deal!" and you say  no, I'll be paying in cash. Here is what the sales guy instantly thinks: 1. These guys have the kind of finances that they can save up $20,000 in cash, on top of their emergency savings etc., which they are willing to pay for a car. THEREFORE 2. These guys have great credit, AND 3. These guys have positive cashflow in their monthly budget, or they'd never have been able to save up that money THEREFORE 4. I can upsell them. I will get them into a $32k car; something more luxurious or sexier version of <%car>. I will get them to sit in it "just for fun" and then I will casually mention that they could just put $15k down and they'd be able to take this car home today with easy payments of just $250 a month. I will woo them with a seemingly-low 3% financing deal and the fact that they'll get to hang on to $5k of their cash on top of that. The sales guy will get a tidy bonus from his sales manager for selling a more expensive car, AND financing it so the dealership gets a nice cut from the financing arm from that loan. And the customers may actually go home happy, too: they get a sweet luxurious car. They may or may not ever figure out that not only did they spend way more money than they budgeted, but they also probably overpaid on the $32k car because they wound up negotiating based on monthly payment size instead of out-the-door final price. Plus their insurance is much higher because the more expensive car costs more to insure. That $250 payment actually turned out to be $271 because of various tacked-on fees and taxes and stuff, and it's a 72-month loan. They can easily afford it and don't sit down to calculate out exactly how much they wound up paying in the long run for this car. Of course, you might well foil the sale's guy's clever plan, if you stick to your guns and your budget, but you should at least be aware that this is what he's probably thinking when you proudly inform him of your all-cash payment option. edits to make the math add up, derp Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 21:29
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