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Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug
Thread has come full circle. People making fun of people buying Nordost cables for $5,000 when they could just go buy a BJC for $35. Now people buying the $35 cables are being made fun of for not buying $1 cables.

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grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Philthy posted:

Thread has come full circle. People making fun of people buying Nordost cables for $5,000 when they could just go buy a BJC for $35. Now people buying the $35 cables are being made fun of for not buying $1 cables.

Umm, if it had come "full circle" we'd be now making fun of the people buy $1 cables because they didn't buy $5,000 Nordost ones.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

You're all idiots, I mean why even bother listening to music in your house. Alone. Like a loser? GO OUTSIDE, NERDS.

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

This just hit me: Shouldn't live music be the only real pure form of music? Is there some exception because live concerts doesn't allow you to buy excessive amounts of really expensive electronics?

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

I saw a load of posts and thought "cool, something awesome must have been posted and we're all having a fun time deconstructing it" but no.

We have like 2 pages of people discussing whether $1 cable is better or worse than $5 cable.

ChristsDickWorship
Dec 7, 2004

Annihilate your demons



Boiled Water posted:

This just hit me: Shouldn't live music be the only real pure form of music? Is there some exception because live concerts doesn't allow you to buy excessive amounts of really expensive electronics?
Are you kidding? It costs like $20k to put an adequate PA system into a dance club for 200 people, and could easily be $100,000 for a nice 1200 seat theater where you would go see a show for a $40-$50 ticket price.

What keeps audiophiles out of the live sound business is you have to actually understand audio and acoustics, you have to aggressively manipulate audio (not just fill the signal chain with "natural" sounding things), and you will be judged based on what other people think, not what you think.

Opensourcepirate
Aug 1, 2004

Except Wednesdays
Getting back to actual science and using the correct hardware in the correct place. Not all RCA outputs are created equally.

wikipedia posted:

A line level describes a line's nominal signal level as a ratio, expressed in decibels, against a standard reference voltage...

The most common nominal level for consumer audio equipment is −10 dBV, and the most common nominal level for professional equipment is 4 dBu. By convention, nominal levels are always written with an explicit sign symbol. Thus 4 dBu is written as +4 dBu.

Expressed in absolute terms, a signal at −10 dBV is equivalent to a sine wave signal with a peak amplitude of approximately 0.447 volts, or any general signal at 0.316 volts root mean square (VRMS). A signal at +4 dBu is equivalent to a sine wave signal with a peak amplitude of approximately 1.736 volts, or any general signal at approximately 1.228 VRMS

So according to wikipedia, consumer level hardware should have a line out of about half a volt, and professional equipment should be about 1.5 volts. I think that modern consumer equipment probably goes up towards the pro range, just based on how low I can turn amplifiers and how well I can drive headphones, but I could be wrong about that.

So absolutely, if you're putting out 1.5 volts and then getting a millivolt of noise induced into your RCA cables because they're not shielded very well, you're not going to be able to hear that at all.

Getting back to a case that was discussed just a few pages ago; RCA cable quality matters significantly when carrying unamplified phonograph output.

wikipedia posted:

A "phono input" is a set of input jacks, usually RCA jacks, located on the rear panel of a preamp, mixer or amplifier, especially on early radio sets, to which a phonograph or turntable is attached. Modern styli (phonograph needles) and phono cartridges give a very low level output signal of the order of a few millivolts which the circuitry amplifies and equalizes.

Through at least the 1980s, the phono input was widely available on consumer stereo equipment—even some larger boomboxes had them. By the 2000s only very sophisticated and expensive stereo receivers retained the phono input, since most users were expected to use digital music formats such as CD or satellite radio. Some newer low-cost turntables include built-in amplifiers to produce line-level (one volt) outputs; devices are available that perform this conversion for use with computers; or older amplifiers or radio receivers can be used. Nearly all DJ mixers have two or more phono inputs, together with two or more one-volt line inputs that also use RCA connectors.

This "phono input" designed for the millivolt signal from an unamplified turntable should not be confused with the modern standard one-volt line input and output that also uses RCA connectors and is found on video cameras, recorders and similar modern equipment.

If your carrying a signal of only a few millivolts, then you absolutely will hear it when you have a millivolt of noise induced on your coathanger RCA cable.

This article describes the standard RCA input output as being 1 volt. If you don't have a use for high end cables, then don't use them. I almost always use monoprice's premium cables. Maybe I'd be fine with the $0.88 cables instead of the $4 cables. I recognize though that other people have different needs than I do.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.
The turntable connection is essentially balanced though so it shouldn't pick up much noise.
The amount of noise induced from EM fields also depends on what the input and output impedances are for the equipment used and aside from turntables the standard for RCA jack impedances is "whatever the hell you feel like".

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

Opensourcepirate posted:

If your carrying a signal of only a few millivolts, then you absolutely will hear it when you have a millivolt of noise induced on your coathanger RCA cable.
Probably, but you pulled the 1mv figure out of your rear end so you could be orders of magnitude off. Saying "here's some guessed-at science, therefore I CAN DEFINITELY HEAR WHAT I THINK I CAN HEAR!" is pure audiophile bilge.

Show me something double-blind tested.

e: like are you a BJC rep or something because it's literally all you post about in this thread.

Khablam fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Aug 11, 2013

Opensourcepirate
Aug 1, 2004

Except Wednesdays
You're right that I don't really know how much induction can be expected. I know that I've had problems with humming on phonographs before. Maybe my problem was bad grounding rather than bad RCA cables. I have no connection to Blue Jeans Cable or any other vendor.

My most recent post was mostly because it seems to me that some people in this thread are using the logic that if they haven't had issues with cheap products in their specific home setups, then no one else is allowed to. I'm personally on the side of wanting equipment that I can be rough with.

I would recommend that everyone in this thread use cables that meet their specific needs. If you use the cheapest cable you can find meets those needs, then absolutely go for it.

Edit: To be clear. I wasn't trying to say that everyone with a phonograph needs a high end cable. I was trying to point out that it's silly to assume that a cable that carries a signal of 1V with no problems will also carry a signal of a few mV with no problems. I did not mean to imply that the 88 cent cable definitely will not perform adequately.

Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 12, 2013

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??
Grimey Drawer
By simply moving my hand near my turntables RCA cables before it hit the pre-amp, I could hear significant noise through my headphones. It was like I was playing a very lovely theremin.

I ripped those cables out, installed RCA jacks and bought BJCs as interconnects. Zero audible noise. Could I have gotten away with monoprice premium cables instead? Maybe. But the BJC cables are ridiculously nice, build quality wise. I'll probably have them forever.

Grumbletron 4000
Nov 30, 2002

Where you want it, bitch.
College Slice
I just ordered a preamp and some monoprice cables so I can finally listen to my vinyl again. I hope the cables do the job. Most of my equipment and speakers is stuff I've cobbled together for almost nothing over the years so I'm not expecting any miracles.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Boiled Water posted:

This just hit me: Shouldn't live music be the only real pure form of music? Is there some exception because live concerts doesn't allow you to buy excessive amounts of really expensive electronics?

If there are PA speakers involved there's nothing 'pure' about it, all the house gear and the engineer exist to turn a bunch of competing instruments into something clean and listenable. Even if you're just listening to what's coming off the stage it still depends on how the space has been treated and where you're standing.

Sound is complicated. Music on a studio release has been sculpted from a raw mass of conflicting frequencies into a listenable form, unless you're Iggy Pop. Same goes for live sound

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?
The only true hifi experience is a choir, singing perfectly in tune an acoustically completely dead room.

Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

baka kaba posted:

If there are PA speakers involved there's nothing 'pure' about it, all the house gear and the engineer exist to turn a bunch of competing instruments into something clean and listenable. Even if you're just listening to what's coming off the stage it still depends on how the space has been treated and where you're standing.
This is why I usually prefer to see bands in small spaces where you actually get the sound from each instrument separately. Your ear and brain do a much better job of mixing the sound than an engineer on a board ever could.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Socket Ryanist posted:

This is why I usually prefer to see bands in small spaces where you actually get the sound from each instrument separately. Your ear and brain do a much better job of mixing the sound than an engineer on a board ever could.

In that case you're relying on the band members to know how and why they need to set their own EQ, which usually means you're being cheerfully optimistic. If they're pro then they'll make sure they're carving out a frequency niche so they all fit well together, which is what an engineer is there for anyway.

Otherwise you get guitarists dialing in their bedroom tone that sounds AWESOME DUDE solo, and either sounds like a bee in a jar or turns into a honking booming mess when everyone's playing at once. I have been in one of those bands

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

I've never known a band be able to EQ themselves properly. "I'm lead guitar, I should be louder than everyone else by a large margin!" It's usually the bass player that gets a raw deal and he usually doesn't know how to set his tone properly anyway... "I play bass so the bass knob on my amp is turned way up because bass, right?!" and the end result is the guitarist being loud as gently caress, the drummer trying to go louder and the bass player just kicking out a fuckton of midrange and the entire thing sounds poo poo.

:(

Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

Well if the room isn't too echoey, then all of the sounds are coming from different directions which makes them stay separate much more than when they're all coming out of the same speakers.

Although I should say I'm mostly thinking of older and "quieter" bands here, not your typical teen or 20-something rock band where everyone's fighting to be the loudest instrument.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

88h88 posted:

I've never known a band be able to EQ themselves properly. "I'm lead guitar, I should be louder than everyone else by a large margin!" It's usually the bass player that gets a raw deal and he usually doesn't know how to set his tone properly anyway... "I play bass so the bass knob on my amp is turned way up because bass, right?!" and the end result is the guitarist being loud as gently caress, the drummer trying to go louder and the bass player just kicking out a fuckton of midrange and the entire thing sounds poo poo.

:(

Why do you hate punk rock? :)

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Socket Ryanist posted:

Well if the room isn't too echoey, then all of the sounds are coming from different directions which makes them stay separate much more than when they're all coming out of the same speakers.

Although I should say I'm mostly thinking of older and "quieter" bands here, not your typical teen or 20-something rock band where everyone's fighting to be the loudest instrument.

It doesn't even need to be people trying to be loudest, just that when you have all the instruments occupying the same frequencies nobody can hear themselves properly, so they think they're too quiet and turn up and make the whole thing worse. The REAL loudness war...

If it's anyone with a decent bit of touring experience they probably know what they're doing by now. But yeah, point is live music isn't 'pure' in any sense of the word, it's raw and organic and depends a lot on the physicality of the space and your position in it. It's entirely subjective, so audiophiles can't make changes and ~objectively~ compare and say 'wow THAT wasn't there before! Or it wasn't so crisp and warm'

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

88h88 posted:

I've never known a band be able to EQ themselves properly. "I'm lead guitar, I should be louder than everyone else by a large margin!" It's usually the bass player that gets a raw deal and he usually doesn't know how to set his tone properly anyway... "I play bass so the bass knob on my amp is turned way up because bass, right?!" and the end result is the guitarist being loud as gently caress, the drummer trying to go louder and the bass player just kicking out a fuckton of midrange and the entire thing sounds poo poo.

:(

Or Lemmy, who turns off the high and low, cranks the mid to max, and turns up Murder One to 11, and then plays the bass like a guitar.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


jonathan posted:

Or Lemmy, who turns off the high and low, cranks the mid to max, and turns up Murder One to 11, and then plays the bass like a guitar.

Everything louder than everything else :rock:

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Many years ago I did professional sound reinforcement (i.e. I set up everything and ran it for concerts). The trick to live music is getting the band to actually show up and cooperate for sound-checks. The key to sound-checks wasn't really about the house sound, it was about getting the *monitor* mix right. If the monitor mix is right, the band members all think they are getting what they want in the house (they aren't, the house gets what *I* want), so they are happy and just play their music.

The house sound gets mixed so that it sounds good to me, with the help of lots of really cool equipment to stay ahead of building idiosyncrasies and feedback.

The down side of the business is that everyone on the musician side treats you like poo poo (or a servant), and if you do EVERYTHING perfect, the best compliment you can possibly hope to get, is when not a single person complains, because nobody in the house (or on the stage) realized that you were even doing anything.

On the subject at hand, unless there is no 'sound guy' (I guess they are calling themselves engineers these days) at the venue, and no amplification, there is no such thing as non-EQ'ed live music. Street music with a few strings or some brass would probably come the closest, and it's rare to find more than two instruments that sound good together in a live environment without some sort of mixing/EQ. Caveat: I don't live in a place where live street music is common at all, so I'm sure I've missed some.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

jonathan fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Aug 16, 2013

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Would've carried more weight without the spelling mistake

grack fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Aug 16, 2013

Ron Burgundy
Dec 24, 2005
This burrito is delicious, but it is filling.
That's not the american spelling? My neighbour at the harbour told me you guys hated the letter U.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:
I think that's only if it ends in an -r

Glamor, favor, flavor, armor, valor, author, etc.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

I think I win the thread now, close it down, make a new one.

http://www.goldensound.com/productlist/next-generation-audio-accessories

The Quantum Light posted:

The flashing lights from this device will regularize the quantum movement in audio equipment and thus improve the clarity of the sound. There are several ways to use this light: (1) Flash it on the CD and DVD for a few seconds, you will hear improved sound and see enhanced pictures. (2) flash it on all the wires, including interconnect wires, video wires, digital wires and power cords and equipment, you will get better sound and sharper pictures. (3) Flash it on any instrument from violin, guitar, piano or synthesizer, you will get a better sound when you play. There are some side benefits to human health: Flash it on the wounded area of your body for a few minutes, it will improve the circulation of the blood which may help to reduce the pain and may heal the wounds faster. Flash it to certain pressure points of your body to improve your health, e.g.. a few minutes to the center bottom of your foot may help you sleep better. Benefits to your drink: Flash it a few seconds to your cheap wine will help it taste smoother and bring out the original grape flavor. However, flashing light against expensive wine may simplify its taste, therefore, it is not recommended.

Price: $370/each

It even manages to touch on wine connoisseurs. BOOM.

Ultra tweeters posted:

Description/Theory: These remarkable, next generation audio devices, sold in pairs, operate at extremely high frequencies -- much higher than the audio band, actually in the microwave band, above 1 Gigahertz (GHz). Ultra Tweeters are connected to the output terminals of existing speakers with thin, flexible cables provided. Ultra Tweeter's principle of operation is very unconventional - they don't generate frequencies in the audio band or even in the 20-100 KHz band like super-tweeters, but in the Gigahertz frequency band (normally used for satellite and microwave communications).

Ultra Tweeters organize and improve flow of acoustic energy through the propagation medium (air) in the room, allowing the air to more efficiently transfer the main speakers' acoustic signal to the listener. Like a policeman in busy downtown traffic, Ultra Tweeters maintain a more orderly, uniform and efficient flow of the acoustic waves through the air by quantum mechanically modifying the air molecules. This modification of the air molecules produces a wider frequency bandwidth, lower noise floor, more "air," and lower distortion. Ultra Tweeters are compatible with any existing speakers without the need for time alignment of drivers or having to match the Ultra Tweeters' acoustic output to existing speakers.

Operation: Ultra Tweeters may be placed on top of the existing speaker cabinets. They may also be placed in any other convenient location in the room since they do not behave like conventional super-tweeters - i.e., they do not operate in the audio band, or even in the 20-100 KHz band of
high-performance super-tweeters. In fact, Ultra Tweeters will improve the performance of systems that include high-performance super-tweeters.

Sale Price: $720/pr (20% off $900)
Anyone have a CD with 1Ghz samples I can test this on?

Please .. someone ... uncover this as a hoax :smith:

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

quote:

(normally used for satellite and microwave communications)

Are these the good kind or bad kind of microwaves? I can imagine someone sitting listening to their music slowly getting cooked from the inside out.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

88h88 posted:

Are these the good kind or bad kind of microwaves? I can imagine someone sitting listening to their music slowly getting cooked from the inside out.

They probably don't emit any kind of waves.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.
Would be hilarious if they actually worked and produced a signal in the GHz range, they'd have the FCC on them so fast it's not even funny.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

88h88 posted:

Are these the good kind or bad kind of microwaves? I can imagine someone sitting listening to their music slowly getting cooked from the inside out.

They're soundwaves (vibrations in the air) not microwaves, a particular frequency range of EM radiation.

It's completely bogus.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.

Khablam posted:

They're soundwaves (vibrations in the air) not microwaves, a particular frequency range of EM radiation.

It's completely bogus.

I used this calculator to work out the power loss of a 1 GHz signal in air
1598225 dB/m

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

grack posted:

Would've carried more weight without the spelling mistake

Good band name though

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box


longview posted:

I used this calculator to work out the power loss of a 1 GHz signal in air
1598225 dB/m

Even better:
Assuming a throw of .1mm, the diaphragm would be accelerating from 0 to 223,694mph to 0 every cycle, or around 293 times the speed of sound.

TomR
Apr 1, 2003
I both own and operate a pirate ship.
I was looking for a local place to pick up a volume control pot and I found this:http://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee_purifiers.html

quote:

Small Slipstream Quantum Purifier, Each

Small Slipstream Quantum Purifiers are typically used in lower-current AC circuits, non-AC analog and digital circuits, and smaller midrange drivers and tweeters.

(Click MORE INFO for Specifications)



$100.00 $100.00 pcX USD Price

Now I'm not sure I trust them enough to buy a volume knob from them.

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

The Locator posted:

On the subject at hand, unless there is no 'sound guy' (I guess they are calling themselves engineers these days) at the venue, and no amplification, there is no such thing as non-EQ'ed live music. Street music with a few strings or some brass would probably come the closest, and it's rare to find more than two instruments that sound good together in a live environment without some sort of mixing/EQ. Caveat: I don't live in a place where live street music is common at all, so I'm sure I've missed some.

I think you're missing some good opportunities to hear acoustic live music. Doesn't your locality have a concert hall w/ orchestra, or a church w/ choir or organ?
I'd say that the most "in-tune" music possible is produced by a really good brass band (the English meaning of the word), or a really good chamber choir. Anything else usually only plays tempered scales, so no intervals are really in tune.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

TomR posted:

I was looking for a local place to pick up a volume control pot and I found this:http://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee_purifiers.html


Now I'm not sure I trust them enough to buy a volume knob from them.

I do appreciate that they crossed out the original price, and then displayed the exact same price next to it, just bolded.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

How you feel about this will depend on your thoughts about what happens after you die. I'll say one thing though, the thought of someone uploading a bunch of poo poo I hated just to be a oval office would make me haunt their rear end from beyond the grave.

Introducing a coffin with an 'audiophile' speaker setup.

http://catacombosoundsystem.com/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDpC5ZYcA7M

quote:

CataCoffin

Two-way front speakers
4-inch midbass drivers
Wide range tweeter with external cooling
8-inch sub bass element
Custom built 2.1 amplifier
T-class stereo amplifier
Tripath Class-T Digital Power Processing™ Technology
SP Output R+L (4 ohm): 2x15W
Output (8 Ohm): 2x10W
Sub bass amplifier 50W RMS with SP output 80/120W
Frequency range: 22Hz-20kHz
Signal/noise ratio: >98dB signal
Acoustic absorption factor αp= 0,65-0,95


CataTomb

Performance-upgradeable music server
7-inch TFT-screen
2,5 GHz Intel Core processor
4 GB 1600 MHz HDD
Wireless 4G internet connection


CataPlay

Access to million of tracks
Collaborative playlists

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

88h88 posted:



Introducing a coffin with an 'audiophile' speaker setup.



My coffin only plays Cannibal Corpse.

Entrails torn from a Virgin's oval office on repeat 24/7.

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