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Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Squashy Nipples posted:

Hey, tipping conversations always go well in here, right?

What do we think of this?

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

"What Happens When You Abolish Tipping
I got rid of gratuities at my restaurant, and our service only got better."

Sounds like the Costco thing to me. "I made it so that my employees are paid a better, more stable wage, based on the production of the business rather than the whim of the customer, and they're happier and better at their jobs". It's a no-brainer for everyone who doesn't think that a fair wage disincentivizes work.

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Squashy Nipples
Aug 18, 2007

Doh004 posted:

As a non food industry worker I hate this idea. I enjoying punishing people by not tipping them.

Maybe if they bootstrapped themselves up they'd make more than below minimum wage :smuggo:


Yeah, annual salary is the only objective measure of moral fortitude, so of course I'm more qualified to to judge character then lowly servers.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007
Soiled Meat

Squashy Nipples posted:

Hey, tipping conversations always go well in here, right?

What do we think of this?

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

"What Happens When You Abolish Tipping
I got rid of gratuities at my restaurant, and our service only got better."

Very interesting. Makes a lot of sense. In the uK a lot if places just add 12.5% service charge to the bill.

Kenning
Jan 11, 2009

I really want to post goatse. Instead I only have these🍄.



Squashy Nipples posted:

Hey, tipping conversations always go well in here, right?

What do we think of this?

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

"What Happens When You Abolish Tipping
I got rid of gratuities at my restaurant, and our service only got better."

Yeah this would p. much make every restaurant better. There is no restaurant environment that would not be improved with this system.

Squashy Nipples
Aug 18, 2007

Kenning posted:

Yeah this would p. much make every restaurant better. There is no restaurant environment that would not be improved with this system.

Yeah, that was my feeling. I've been of the opinion that we should be paying more for prepared food across the board, from fast food to nice sit down joints. But people are whiny bitches, and they hate price increases. So while my logical side thinks that adding in an automatic surcharge is an unnecessary abstraction (hey, there are plenty of non-food costs built into the price of your meal), it seems like the best solution for now.

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

Yayyy adventures in cooking! Our electric range apparently gets quite hot when set to high! I now know how to set grapeseed oil on fire! All of our smoke detectors work! I am making this post from outside!

The house is not burnt down but it smells like poo poo.

Edit: Husband says: "I was reading the Chinese food thread and I really wanted to go for some real wok hei." This is your fault, gravity!! :argh:

Hawkperson fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Aug 16, 2013

pr0k
Jan 16, 2001

"Well if it's gonna be
that kind of party..."

Squashy Nipples posted:

Yeah, annual salary is the only objective measure of moral fortitude, so of course I'm more qualified to to judge character then lowly servers.

Hey guys look who got trolled.

I have mixed thoughts on that policy, both here and as it is more normally in Europe. As someone that has worked for tips, I recall fondly measuring my "score" in tips. I recall also my surprise in Germany when I learned that waiters there were professionals and tips, while occasionally proffered and accepted, were very rare as a matter of course. Waiters there have health care, time off for maternity, vacation, etc. So comparing the systems it seems like the waiters get a better deal in Europe...but that doesn't include the effects of the much higher taxes. In Germany my tax rate would be around 40% - then I would have to pay a 20% VAT on pretty much everything I buy. That's way more then I pay for my own healthcare and income tax.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

We are all drinking from the highball glass of ideology.
A small price to pay to live in glorious socialist utopia though.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007
Soiled Meat

pr0k posted:

Hey guys look who got trolled.

I have mixed thoughts on that policy, both here and as it is more normally in Europe. As someone that has worked for tips, I recall fondly measuring my "score" in tips. I recall also my surprise in Germany when I learned that waiters there were professionals and tips, while occasionally proffered and accepted, were very rare as a matter of course. Waiters there have health care, time off for maternity, vacation, etc. So comparing the systems it seems like the waiters get a better deal in Europe...but that doesn't include the effects of the much higher taxes. In Germany my tax rate would be around 40% - then I would have to pay a 20% VAT on pretty much everything I buy. That's way more then I pay for my own healthcare and income tax.

I don't believe that 40% is the starting rate of tax in Germany.

Nope. First €8k is nothing then a sliding scale from 14% up to 42% at €52k

pr0k posted:

Hey guys look who got trolled.

I have mixed thoughts on that policy, both here and as it is more normally in Europe. As someone that has worked for tips, I recall fondly measuring my "score" in tips. I recall also my surprise in Germany when I learned that waiters there were professionals and tips, while occasionally proffered and accepted, were very rare as a matter of course. Waiters there have health care, time off for maternity, vacation, etc. So comparing the systems it seems like the waiters get a better deal in Europe...but that doesn't include the effects of the much higher taxes. In Germany my tax rate would be around 40% - then I would have to pay a 20% VAT on pretty much everything I buy. That's way more then I pay for my own healthcare and income tax.

I don't believe that 40% is the starting rate of tax in Germany.

Nope. First €8k is nothing then a sliding scale from 14% up to 42% at €52k

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009

Why would you want to make less than €52k?

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)
Do people not understand a progressive tax and a sliding scale with income thresholds?
If someone earns 52k they don't pay 42% of every cent they earn, just 42% of the bit above 52K. So if they earn 70k they only pay 42% tax on 18k.

Mind you, it is quite high, even in Australia (decent minimum wage and no tipping), it's tax free for incomes under $18,200; 19% tax for incomes between $18200-37k; 32% tax for income between 37k and 80k; 37% for income between 80k and 180k; 45% for incomes over 180k

EG if you earned 90k here, you don't pay 37% tax on all your income.

You still get the $18200 tax free, you have to pay 19% tax for the money earned between $18200 and 37k, pay 32% tax for the money earned between 37k and 80k, and just pay 37% tax on the final 10k that you earned over the 80k bracket.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"
Grimey Drawer
I am fine with America and all of it's fuckedupness because it is still possible here to buy land for under 1k an acre. How would I ever be able to afford my own hillbilly amusement park in Europe?

Very Strange Things
May 21, 2008

Fo3 posted:

in Australia (decent minimum wage and no tipping), it's tax free for incomes under $18,200; 19% tax for incomes between $18200-37k; 32% tax for income between 37k and 80k; 37% for income between 80k and 180k; 45% for incomes over 180k

EG if you earned 90k here, you don't pay 37% tax on all your income.

You still get the $18200 tax free, you have to pay 19% tax for the money earned between $18200 and 37k, pay 32% tax for the money earned between 37k and 80k, and just pay 37% tax on the final 10k that you earned over the 80k bracket.

That all adds up to about 23.3% of 90k, if anyone cares.
I'm not sure why I did.
It would be 24-point-something on 100k.

Squashy Nipples
Aug 18, 2007

pr0k posted:

Hey guys look who got trolled.

Heh? Not at all, I was playing along. Just because I didn't use the SmugFace doesn't mean I don't get the joke.
That said, the bootstrapping folks really do feel that way.



Fo3 posted:

Do people not understand a progressive tax and a sliding scale with income thresholds?

No, people don't. They just don't. And I've learned not to bother trying to explain it, either, specially to those OBUMMER IS STEALING MY MONEY folks.

Doh004
Apr 22, 2007

Mmmmm Donuts...

Squashy Nipples posted:

That said, the bootstrapping folks really do feel that way.

That's the sad part :smith:

Squashy Nipples posted:

No, people don't. They just don't. And I've learned not to bother trying to explain it, either, specially to those OBUMMER IS STEALING MY MONEY folks.

I've explained this dozens of times to my libertarian friends and each time is met with the same "BUT HOW IS THAT FAAAAIIIRRRRRR?" :(

Clavietika
Dec 18, 2005


Blerg. I wanted to make dino.'s lemon rice for a work potluck, but someone replied back that they're allergic to curry. :wtc: I'm extra disappointed because another coworker was going to make roti, NOT ANYMORE!


:smith:

Curry seems like a really broad thing to be allergic to. It has lots of allergens, but if you're allergic to something IN the curry wouldn't you be allergic to other stuff with those ingredients too?

e: VVV Which is ridiculously infuriating to me, because there should be about 15 people coming so it's not like they're going to starve, and if you're a picky eater (I don't eat plenty of things people bring to potlucks, hello ambrosia salad? Other peoples' sulfury potato salads?) don't force your bland on other people!

The rice I wanted to bring doesn't even technically have "curry" in it... But it has many of the ingredients that go into curry powder so if this person actually has an allergy, I still wouldn't bring it in good conscience. Ugh I should stop thinking about this ugh.

another edit: The best rated spanish rice recipe on Allrecipes.com is SALSA RICE. :suicide:

Clavietika fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Aug 16, 2013

FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...
Just a picky eatter that doesn't like curry lying about it probably.

The Midniter
Jul 9, 2001

gently caress bitches, make curry. There will be plenty of other poo poo for Mr/Ms Picky Eater to choose from.

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)
A curry is a generic powder or sauce. There's no rule on what goes in it at all.
I think most people that say "allergic" to curry means they may be allergic to one component, or think all curry is spicy and they don't like spice/chilli so they say they are allergic.
Dino.'s lemon rice isn't what I would call a curry BTW, it tastes like lemon, ginger, and whatever herb or nut you put in it. The turmeric is not noticeable over the lemon, and the cumin seed and mustard seeds are mild, the chilli you can even omit or add the tiniest amount. It's a lemon rice, not a curry rice.

edit: Do a coconut rice. Put a chopped scotch bonnet in it and it will be Jamaican coconut rice. :D


Late edit: You could do arroz rojo the proper way. Make a sofrito with:

fresh peeled tomatoes
1 green capsicum or a few anaheim or numex chillies
1 medium yellow onion
2 large cloves garlic
olive oil
1 tsp Spanish sweet paprika
salt and pepper to taste
Finish with coriander (uhh, cilantro)

Fo3 fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 16, 2013

geetee
Feb 2, 2004

>;[
Since we're on the topic... Do you guys tip for takeout?

Edit: vvv :laugh: could not resist

geetee fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 16, 2013

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

Clavietika posted:

Blerg. I wanted to make dino.'s lemon rice for a work potluck, but someone replied back that they're allergic to curry. :wtc: I'm extra disappointed because another coworker was going to make roti, NOT ANYMORE!


:smith:

Curry seems like a really broad thing to be allergic to. It has lots of allergens, but if you're allergic to something IN the curry wouldn't you be allergic to other stuff with those ingredients too?
Just make "lemon rice, no curry edition". If they were allergic to one of the spices in curry, they would tell you what they were actually allergic to. Bonus points to you if you make them a list of ingredients and then ban basically all foods with flavour as a result.

geetee posted:

Since we're on the topic... Do you guys tip for takeout?

Don't even loving start.

(Usually no)

esperantinc
May 5, 2003

JERRY! HELLO!

geetee posted:

Since we're on the topic... Do you guys tip for takeout?

Edit: vvv :laugh: could not resist

I do, but not as much as I would have had I eaten in. Generally a couple bucks, because most of the time from what I've seen it's a server that has to take the time to box everything up for you, neglecting their tables a bit while they're at it.

bombhand
Jun 27, 2004

I tip a small amount on takeout for places I like a lot with small staffs, because it means they treat me better and I get extra pieces of sashimi in my dinner set or more fancy pieces than usual.

pr0k
Jan 16, 2001

"Well if it's gonna be
that kind of party..."

Fo3 posted:

Do people not understand a progressive tax and a sliding scale with income thresholds?

I get it, I has a math. If a reasonable income of 90k pays 23% in income tax, then add paying 20% VAT on almost every cent you spend of the 77% of the income you have left, 77% of 90k is 69300 and paying 20% on that leaves you 55440 to actually spend, which is 62% of your income so you paid about 38% in taxes effectively. Which is pretty close to the 40% number I mentioned.

Test Pattern
Dec 20, 2007

Keep scrolling, clod!

pr0k posted:

I get it, I has a math. If a reasonable income of 90k pays 23% in income tax, then add paying 20% VAT on almost every cent you spend of the 77% of the income you have left, 77% of 90k is 69300 and paying 20% on that leaves you 55440 to actually spend, which is 62% of your income so you paid about 38% in taxes effectively. Which is pretty close to the 40% number I mentioned.

Do you think it just evaporates? As you said, you get vacation, health, and other benefits of a functioning state rather than a crumbling libertarian neogilded age wasteland.

dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.
Also, I haven't really seen VAT placed on groceries, and things of that nature.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

We are all drinking from the highball glass of ideology.
I just spent a full shift working the booth at the county fair for our church's Hispanic club. I manned the flat top and the open grill, doing tortillas and carne asada. We also served carnitas, tamales, elotes, and aguas frescas. We went through amazing amounts of food, but now I recall one of the reasons I cut my restaurant career short.

I am tired. Also old.

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)

pr0k posted:

I get it, I has a math. If a reasonable income of 90k pays 23% in income tax, then add paying 20% VAT on almost every cent you spend of the 77% of the income you have left, 77% of 90k is 69300 and paying 20% on that leaves you 55440 to actually spend, which is 62% of your income so you paid about 38% in taxes effectively. Which is pretty close to the 40% number I mentioned.

You don't pay VAT on income.
You seem very confused as I gave the Australia version on taxation, and our 'VAT' is also only 10%. Doesn't apply to any fresh produce bought BTW, just goods that are manufactured or processed, or services.
It doesn't apply if you save up cash or income, or invest it, doesn't apply if you use the money for overseas holidays of course, buying an established house doesn't get 'VAT' taxed (different taxes do apply there though, and of course if you build one from scratch then you pay 'VAT' on the materials and labour), speaking of established houses, 'VAT' doesn't apply when even buying anything second hand eg cars or whatever.

The point is VAT doesn't apply to income, and doesn't even apply to every expenditure.
Do you live somewhere with no sales or state taxes on purchasing? Just asking because I know there's a few states and counties that don't charge taxes, but most do I think. 'VAT' or what we have here 'GST', is just a federally run, state and sales tax system, and they removed all pre-existing state taxes before implementing it anyway.

Fo3 fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Aug 17, 2013

BlueGrot
Jun 26, 2010

dino. posted:

Also, I haven't really seen VAT placed on groceries, and things of that nature.

:norway:

DekeThornton
Sep 2, 2011

Be friends!
Here in Sweden VAT on groceries is 12%. On most other goods it's 25. Base income tax rate is about 30%. On top of that an employer has to pay a payroll tax of about 31 % of the employee's gross salary. That payroll tax pays for such things as pension and health Insurance and is effectiively part of the tax I pay on my salary. SO base level, without hitting a progressive taxation threshold, 60 % of my pay goes to taxes. The services I recieve for that tax burden really aren't all that much better than in countries with substantially lower taxation and I still suplement taxes with private Health Insurance.

I still tip though.

DekeThornton fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Aug 17, 2013

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)
On everything?
They had a hard time introducing it here in Australia about 20 years ago, and all sorts of food got exemptions just so the law would pass. Precooked or ready to eat meals or take away cooked foods got it, but not everything. At the time we had a decent strong third political party that had the balance of power, but now they're gone it's part of why politics suck so much in Australia today.

we have no VAT on raw meat, oils, flours, breads, unflavoured milk, spices, sauces, condiments, tea or coffee, any veg fresh, frozen or or canned, basic spreads for breads, breakfast cereals, some bottled or canned fruits and veg, even some canned meals like soups and stews.

We mainly pay 'VAT' on instant frozen meals and pizzas, soda/soft drinks, and sweets and desserts or other poo poo that you shouldn't eat anyway etc. And on them and fast food, take-away foods, restaurants etc, it's only 10% anyway.

Fo3 fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Aug 17, 2013

venus de lmao
Apr 30, 2007

Call me "pixeltits"

Squashy Nipples posted:

Heh? Not at all, I was playing along. Just because I didn't use the SmugFace doesn't mean I don't get the joke.
That said, the bootstrapping folks really do feel that way.

I worked for a guy, for minimum wage, who told me that people on minimum wage don't deserve to be able to afford to live. If they wanted to be able to, you know, feed, clothe, and house themselves, they'd nut up and get a better job.

rear end in a top hat.

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)

Bertrand Hustle posted:

... If they wanted to be able to, you know, feed, clothe, and house themselves, they'd nut up and get a better job.
And if they did, then he would have to pay more to attract any workers who have left for better jobs.
Hell, you might end up with a country like Australia with decent wages for all.
:australia:
We're a bunch of whingers down here, but at least we aren't the US or any Scandinavian countries.
Personally I feel we have the balance more or less right, tax not so high, wages highish, but the loving Australian whingers don't realise how good it is, not to mention the 'stop the boats' bullshit :suicide:
You'd think we have it hard done here when listening to all the local whining pricks (most of which are immigrants themselves, or their parents were, but they all still want to "stop the boats".)

One thing we don't have though is any decent population spread, no cheap land or housing due to the whole centre of the country being a desert and most people living on the coast of the southern half and nearly all of them in five capital cities.

Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 17, 2013

Squashy Nipples
Aug 18, 2007

Bertrand Hustle posted:

I worked for a guy, for minimum wage, who told me that people on minimum wage don't deserve to be able to afford to live. If they wanted to be able to, you know, feed, clothe, and house themselves, they'd nut up and get a better job.

rear end in a top hat.

These kinds of sentiments shoehorn nicely with modern Prosperity Gospel. So, you can treat your underpaid employees like total poo poo, mock their miserable poverty to their faces, and STILL get into heaven!

Yay Christianity!

pr0k
Jan 16, 2001

"Well if it's gonna be
that kind of party..."

Fo3 posted:

You don't pay VAT on income.
Call me crazy, but I think the words in my post made it pretty obvious that I understood that. And, while not strictly an income tax, since the VAT amounts to a much more significant part of your money than local and state taxes do here, its presence had bearing on the conversation. And since we *had* been talking about Europe, I just grabbed Germany's tax code for example, which has none of the exceptions you mention.

I am not writing a freakin treatise on overall taxation all over the drat world. I just said the friggin taxes in europe are high so I'm not fully sure the waiters there are so much better off than they are here in the states. I didn't call for Ron Paul to be the next fuckin Pope or anything, man.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?
Your short version involved a person making EUR90K, and spending every last dime of post-taxation income on VAT-eligible things, to compare to servers in the US who can still be paid as little as USD2.13/hr + tips, or minimum wage, whichever is more, and depending on their employer may be fired the first time that employer has to make up the difference. And that's only if everyone's following the law!

Marta Velasquez
Mar 9, 2013

Good thing I was feeling suicidal this morning...
Fallen Rib

Kugyou no Tenshi posted:

Your short version involved a person making EUR90K, and spending every last dime of post-taxation income on VAT-eligible things, to compare to servers in the US who can still be paid as little as USD2.13/hr + tips, or minimum wage, whichever is more, and depending on their employer may be fired the first time that employer has to make up the difference. And that's only if everyone's following the law!

For reference, non-tipped national minimum wage is $7.25/hr, so it restaurants like that, the server has to make $5.12/hr in tips or risk being fired.

Some states have a minimum wage of over $10/hr, making the situation worse for servers.

Kenning
Jan 11, 2009

I really want to post goatse. Instead I only have these🍄.



On the West Coast and a handful of other states there's no longer a tipped wage as distinct from a regular minimum wage. Thank loving god.

Iron Lung
Jul 24, 2007
Life.Iron Lung. Death.
A few people were discussing cold-brew coffee in here a while ago (could have been weeks or months) I think. I tried to find it but couldn't dig it up, could whoever posted about that link me to the page or re-post about it? Would be interested in keeping some really good/strong coldbrew in the fridge since it's still hot as hell in AZ but have about 0 experience making coffee at home. How long is it good in the fridge for?

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FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...

Iron Lung posted:

A few people were discussing cold-brew coffee in here a while ago (could have been weeks or months) I think. I tried to find it but couldn't dig it up, could whoever posted about that link me to the page or re-post about it? Would be interested in keeping some really good/strong coldbrew in the fridge since it's still hot as hell in AZ but have about 0 experience making coffee at home. How long is it good in the fridge for?

One pound of beans in 9 cups of water for 24 hours. Strain. It will be strong.

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