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  • Locked thread
Automatic Slim
Jul 1, 2007

TinTower posted:



How about you gently caress off, Murdoch?



I had to google this reference. Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#Findings

Sales of The Sun are still down in Liverpool because the The Sun editor blamed the fans/victims in the Hillsborough incident over the police incompetence.

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TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
There was one good thing about Hillsborough: it still keeps Liverpool together, and it keeps most of the footballing world together.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFX07w2-4ls

:unsmith:

TinTower fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Aug 19, 2013

Rodatose
Jul 8, 2008

corn, corn, corn
As someone in the states, I hadn't heard about that and it's pretty infuriating.


As always, blame the poor rabble so that members of a different poor rabble can be mad at them.

Automatic Slim
Jul 1, 2007

Rodatose posted:

As someone in the states, I hadn't heard about that and it's pretty infuriating.


As always, blame the poor rabble so that members of a different poor rabble can be mad at them.

After reading the wiki, I came away with the feeling it wasn't the looters that urinated on the bodies of the victims.

Byolante
Mar 23, 2008

by Cyrano4747
There are plenty of idiots who watch English football who still believe the sequence of events as published by the sun. Maggie did a lot to damage the reputation of football in England and it is not at all shocking that Hillsborough was pushed the way it was as a method of gentrifying the game and pushing the poor out.

The other side of the coin though is Heysel which tends to get papered over.

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

Byolante posted:

There are plenty of idiots who watch English football who still believe the sequence of events as published by the sun. Maggie did a lot to damage the reputation of football in England and it is not at all shocking that Hillsborough was pushed the way it was as a method of gentrifying the game and pushing the poor out.

The other side of the coin though is Heysel which tends to get papered over.

Heysel is interesting because the coverup has, for the most part, actually worked. Everyone blames the Liverpool fans for making that wall collapse, as if they turned up for the game with pickaxes and blasting charges. At Heysel:

- That wall was unsafe (and the owners of the stadium *knew* it was unsafe)
- The owners of the stadium ignored police advice about segregation of fans, putting Liverpool and Juve fans directly next to each other on a terrace with only a temporary fence separating them (so as to maximise their ticket revenue from the seated areas)
- The first missiles thrown were from the Juve fans into the Liverpool fans - the majority of the missiles thrown were lumps of the terracing itself, the stadium was in such a poor state of repair
- The wall collapsed under the pressure of Juve fans climbing over it to escape advancing Liverpool fans - but they had to climb the wall because ALL THE EXITS WERE LOCKED

Yes, Liverpool fans rioting was a proximate cause of the collapse, but the idea - even in some Liverpool fans heads - that Heysel was entirely the fault of the Liverpool fans is a fabrication that suited the Belgian authorities, the footballing authorities (because god knows they wanted a reason to stop English fans travelling, they really were loving terrible in the eighties), the owners of the stadium, and even the British government.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

goddamnedtwisto posted:

The situation with email is even worse - almost all email providers use the email address as a login and have trivial password-recovery techniques, and permit diversion of a copy of all email sent to a mailbox with no further notification required (Hotmail still permit it 8 years after they were heavily criticised for it by the trial judge in R. v Stanford) and once you have access to someone's email account these days it's pretty much all over. Google at least permit 2FA but hide it well away.
Out of interest, which webmail provider would you say was the least bad from this point of view? I don't mean which one supports end-to-end encryption and will self-immolate rather than talk to the spooks, just which one is least likely to cave in under less serious pressure, or is less vulnerable to malicious compromise?

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

Zephro posted:

Out of interest, which webmail provider would you say was the least bad from this point of view? I don't mean which one supports end-to-end encryption and will self-immolate rather than talk to the spooks, just which one is least likely to cave in under less serious pressure, or is less vulnerable to malicious compromise?

Legally, they're all in the US so that's a wash. Google allow 2FA via smartphones, and Hotmail are experimenting with it, but ultimately expecting any third party to care as much about your privacy as you do is silly.

Zombywuf
Mar 29, 2008

Zephro posted:

Out of interest, which webmail provider would you say was the least bad from this point of view? I don't mean which one supports end-to-end encryption and will self-immolate rather than talk to the spooks, just which one is least likely to cave in under less serious pressure, or is less vulnerable to malicious compromise?

Really your only choice for even a modicum of privacy is to not use webmail and to learn to use encryption, i.e. GPG. You still wont be safe if they decide to target you because they'll compromise your machine and install a keylogger or just prosecute you under the RIP act. You will also have to convince your interlocutors to use it which is the hard bit.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Zombywuf posted:

Really your only choice for even a modicum of privacy is to not use webmail and to learn to use encryption, i.e. GPG. You still wont be safe if they decide to target you because they'll compromise your machine and install a keylogger or just prosecute you under the RIP act. You will also have to convince your interlocutors to use it which is the hard bit.
No, like I said, I'm not worried about three-letter agencies. I just mean I'd like an email provider that won't do things like:

quote:

almost all email providers use the email address as a login and have trivial password-recovery techniques, and permit diversion of a copy of all email sent to a mailbox with no further notification required (Hotmail still permit it 8 years after they were heavily criticised for it by the trial judge in R. v Stanford)
I'm more worried about my insurance company than the NSA.

Plasmafountain
Jun 17, 2008

Since were on the subject:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/south-yorkshire-police-wanted-spend-5749493

quote:

South Yorkshire police chiefs wanted to use funds donated in memory of Hillsborough disaster victims to pay for breaks in the sun for their officers, it has emerged.

The ECHO can reveal a holiday flat, microwave ovens for police station kitchens and new gym equipment were on a wish list circulated among senior officers in February 1991.

The majority of the £12m fund had been given to families, survivors and others affected by the disaster, including match stewards at the stadium.

But a significant amount of what were described as “residual” funds remained, and its trustees asked police and other organisations for ideas on how they might be used.

Former Merseyside chief constable Norman Bettison, then a Superintendent based in South Yorkshire Police’s F Division, requested £2,000 to refurbish the reception area of his police station.

Other ideas included new blinds for the force’s casualty bureau and “better gifts” for officers on sick leave.


The disaster fund included £100,000 from Liverpool FC, as well as money from Liverpool city council and the proceeds of a charity version of Ferry Cross the Mersey featuring Paul McCartney and Gerry Marsden, which was number one for three weeks in May and June, 1989.

Chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, Margaret Aspinall, said: “It is one of the most shocking things I’ve heard in a long time.

“It’s not something I was previously aware of and to hear how, even in 1991 when it was clear to everyone that the police were to blame, they were suggesting money should go to them to pay for microwaves and holidays. This really is quite hard to believe, and to hear Bettison suggesting money should go to refurbish a police station is sickening.

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

Zombywuf posted:

Really your only choice for even a modicum of privacy is to not use webmail and to learn to use encryption, i.e. GPG. You still wont be safe if they decide to target you because they'll compromise your machine and install a keylogger or just prosecute you under the RIP act. You will also have to convince your interlocutors to use it which is the hard bit.

I'm not sure if "them" is hackers or, you know... :tinfoil:THEM:tinfoil: in this context, but as an interesting aside - you're at least safe from government keyloggers and other trojans for now, they're still illegal (and specifically any data gathered from them cannot be used in a prosecution, and indeed their existence poisons the chain of evidence enough that it's very unlikely any forensics gathered from your computer will be admissible).

Guy DeBorgore
Apr 6, 1994

Catnip is the opiate of the masses
Soiled Meat

goddamnedtwisto posted:

I'm not sure if "them" is hackers or, you know... :tinfoil:THEM:tinfoil: in this context, but as an interesting aside - you're at least safe from government keyloggers and other trojans for now, they're still illegal (and specifically any data gathered from them cannot be used in a prosecution, and indeed their existence poisons the chain of evidence enough that it's very unlikely any forensics gathered from your computer will be admissible).

We've already seen in this thread that US law enforcement is very willing to use inadmissible data in its investigations, and then construct a fake sanitized "chain of evidence" that makes no mention of the data. They even have an official program for it IIRC. I wouldn't write off the prospect of government keyloggers and trojans just because they don't show up in court.

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006

Guy DeBorgore posted:

We've already seen in this thread that US law enforcement is very willing to use inadmissible data in its investigations, and then construct a fake sanitized "chain of evidence" that makes no mention of the data. They even have an official program for it IIRC. I wouldn't write off the prospect of government keyloggers and trojans just because they don't show up in court.

Believe it or not (and I almost did the same thing myself), this isn't the Snowden thread.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

A rather complex piece from my regular contributor on how Murdoch and pals might be trying to worm their way out of corporate charges
http://brown-moses-hackgate.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/met-and-murdoch-covert-deals-and.html

Zombywuf
Mar 29, 2008

Zephro posted:

No, like I said, I'm not worried about three-letter agencies. I just mean I'd like an email provider that won't do things like:

I'm more worried about my insurance company than the NSA.

Ah, you're pretty much hosed unless you run your own mail server, or you could use encryption.

Yeah it sucks.

BTW: There are many companies that have had, or still have, lovely password recovery mechanisms, including Netflix and Amazon. Yeah, companies with your credit card info.

goddamnedtwisto posted:

I'm not sure if "them" is hackers or, you know... :tinfoil:THEM:tinfoil: in this context, but as an interesting aside - you're at least safe from government keyloggers and other trojans for now, they're still illegal (and specifically any data gathered from them cannot be used in a prosecution, and indeed their existence poisons the chain of evidence enough that it's very unlikely any forensics gathered from your computer will be admissible).

This depends on what THEY want. If the UK government want to prosecute me then they won't use key loggers because it's illegal and they can just use the RIP act. If on the other hand the NSA just want to rifle through my stuff for shits and giggles then they can log all the keys they want.

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

Zombywuf posted:

Ah, you're pretty much hosed unless you run your own mail server, or you could use encryption.

Yeah it sucks.

BTW: There are many companies that have had, or still have, lovely password recovery mechanisms, including Netflix and Amazon. Yeah, companies with your credit card info.


This depends on what THEY want. If the UK government want to prosecute me then they won't use key loggers because it's illegal and they can just use the RIP act. If on the other hand the NSA just want to rifle through my stuff for shits and giggles then they can log all the keys they want.

That's pretty much always been the case though because every American agency has pretty much been allowed to do whatever they want to non-Americans (hence the years-old urban legend about NSA spying on Brits for HMG and GCHQ reciprocating on American citizens)

I know it's an even weaker version of "If you've nothing to fear you've nothing to hide" but basically I've always assumed :tinfoil:THEY:tinfoil: can read whatever I'm doing online at any time if I'm ever likely to be up to something likely to being myself to their attention, and I'm sort of okay with that - even moreso now I know (in the UK at least) just how strong the protections are on use of both Part 1 (interception) and Part 3 RIPA ("Rubber-hose" cryptography). Part 1 Ch.2 (comms data) not *quite* so much but there's really very little they can glean from the data covered by that.

Anyway this is veering dangerously off-course for the thread - the legal or otherwise powers of governments to snoop on citizens is pretty irrelevant to the illegal power of the media and other private bodies to do the same, and ultimately the latter is of much more concern (or at least should be) to the average citizen.

goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Aug 19, 2013

Zombywuf
Mar 29, 2008

You know the XKeyScore documents show those urban legends have become (somewhat) reality?

Anyway, I do think widespread state monitoring is on topic for a thread covering topics like the police selling peoples personal data.

Verizian
Dec 18, 2004
The spiky one.
Some would say there's very little difference between governments and private entities when every PM we've had for the past few decades was all but hand picked by Murdoch. Excluding Brown but I'm pretty sure he only got the job because some sick gently caress thought it was funny.

Plus the whole trend towards privatising everything in return for a cushy job when politicians leave office.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

More charging decisions from the CPS:

quote:

Operation Elveden: Former Daily Mirror journalist and eight others to be charged

Gregor McGill, a senior lawyer with the Crown Prosecution Service, whose team handles CPS decision making and potential prosecutions in relation to the ongoing phone hacking investigations and other related matters, said:

This announcement relates to five files of evidence from the Metropolitan Police Service.

Greig Box Turnbull, Grant Pizzey, Desra Reilly, Marc Alexander and one other

It is alleged that Grant Pizzey, a prison officer at HMP Belmarsh and his partner Desra Reilly provided information to Greig Box Turnbull, a former journalist at the Daily Mirror, in exchange for payment.

It is alleged that between 1 December 2005 and 31 January 2012, Grant Pizzey and Desra Reilly received almost £20,000 in exchange for over 40 pieces of information about incidents that took place within the prison, a number of which related to high profile prisoners.

It is also alleged that between 1 February 2006 and 31 December 2009 Marc Alexander, formerly a prison officer at HMP Holloway, received £2,700 for information sold to Greig Box Turnbull also relating to events within the prison in which he worked.

Following careful review of the evidence we have concluded that Greig Box Turnbull should face two charges of conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office, one reflecting a conspiracy with Grant Pizzey and Desra Reilly, who should be charged as co-conspirators, and the second reflecting a conspiracy with Marc Alexander, who should also be charged as a co-conspirator.

This file of evidence also included allegations against one other member of the public and it was determined there was insufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and that no further action should be taken in relation to the allegations against this individual. Due to ongoing proceedings it would be inappropriate to say any more about this decision at this stage.

Graham Dudman and John Troup

It is alleged that between 5 September 2002 and 27 September 2002 Graham Dudman, now Managing Editor at the Sun newspaper, requested the authorisation of payments of £3,000 to one or more police officers in exchange for information relating to ongoing police investigations.

It is also alleged that between 23 June 2002 and 6 December 2007, Graham Dudman authorised payments to public officials. This information related to the health of a Broadmoor patient, details of an incident at a hospital and details of an incident relating to army combat.

It is further alleged that Graham Dudman approved a payment requested by John Troup, a former journalist at The Sun newspaper, for information relating to the death of a prison inmate.

Following careful consideration of the evidence we have concluded that Graham Dudman should be charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office, one reflecting conspiracy with John Troup, who should also be charged as a co-conspirator.

Vince Soodin

It is alleged that between 18 June 2010 and 20 July 2010 Vince Soodin, a journalist with The Sun newspaper, provided payment to a police officer in exchange for information including contact details for witnesses in police investigations. It is alleged that a payment of £500 was made in exchange for this information.

Having carefully reviewed the evidence we have concluded that Vince Soodin should be charged with conspiring with a police officer to commit misconduct in public office.

Darren Jennings

It is alleged that Darren Jennings, a police officer with Wiltshire Police provided information to The Sun newspaper in relation to a police officer who was facing criminal proceedings. It is alleged that on or around 6 September 2010 he sought payment of £10,000 in exchange for personal background information about the police officer and other individuals who were in police custody at the time.

Following careful review of the evidence we have concluded that Darren Jennings should be charged with misconduct in public office.

Alan Ostler

It is alleged that between 1 June 2008 and 10 July 2008 Alan Ostler, formerly an assistant technical instructor at Broadmoor Hospital, provided information to journalists at The Sun and the Daily Mirror.

It is alleged that Alan Ostler received payment of £900 from the Daily Mirror in exchange for information relating to patients and incidents inside Broadmoor Hospital.

Following careful review of the evidence we have concluded that Alan Ostler should be charged with misconduct in public office.

All of these matters were considered carefully in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors and the DPP's guidelines on the public interest in cases affecting the media. These guidelines ask prosecutors to consider whether the public interest served by the conduct in question outweighs the overall criminality before bringing criminal proceedings.

Accordingly, we have authorised the institution of proceedings against nine individuals and all nine will appear before Westminster Magistrates' Court on 5 September 2013.

May I remind all concerned that proceedings for criminal offences involving these nine individuals will now be commenced and that each has a right to a fair trial. It is very important that nothing is said, or reported, which could prejudice that trial. For these reasons it would be inappropriate for me to comment further.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

My regular contributor has written a humourous piece on the status of the Royal Charter
http://brown-moses-hackgate.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/schrodingers-royal-charter.html

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo
Tom Watson was on Q&A, the Australian version of Question Time, broadcast on the ABC recently. The episode can be viewed here and the download appears to be non-geoblocked.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3818772.htm

He did alright but I think people in Australia failed to see the significance of things. Also those Twitter comments on the bottom of the screen are stupid sometimes.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Brown Moses posted:

More charging decisions from the CPS:

How close are we to having Piers do his "teddy bear making GBS threads into a teacup" routine in a cell?

Sex Vicar
Oct 11, 2007

I thought this was a swingers party...
Tangentially related but an official watchdog investigation by the information commissioner has been announced, looking into companies accused of using Private Detectives to "Blag" personal information.

May have some knock on to the press investigations but at least things are moving on the "Blagging" front.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Keith Vaz and HASC will be publishing the names of the blue chip companies involved with hacking on Monday, should be interesting.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
Is that under parliamentary privilege or did he talk the police around?

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008

Mr. Squishy posted:

Is that under parliamentary privilege or did he talk the police around?

It's being reported that Vaz gave them an ultimatum - you publish it, or we will.

JoeSchmoe
Jul 17, 2003

According to twitter, SOCA have changed their mind...

https://twitter.com/tomsymonds/status/375977961637568512

(BBC Home Affairs Correspondent, so should be reasonably accurate).

Loonytoad Quack
Aug 24, 2004

High on Shatner's Bassoon
:woop:

And so it begins... again:

quote:

Sunday Mirror confirms phone-hacking investigation

The publisher of the Sunday Mirror is under investigation over alleged phone hacking, its parent company has said.

Several Sunday Mirror journalists have been arrested over hacking, and Mirror Group Newspapers (MGN) itself is now being investigated.

Trinity Mirror said police were at a "very early stage" of examining if MGN was "criminally liable" for alleged crimes by former staff.

A Trinity spokeswoman said the group did "not accept wrongdoing".

BBC home affairs correspondent Tom Symonds said MGN had joined News UK, which published the now defunct News of the World, under "corporate" investigation.

Trinity's spokeswoman said MGN "has been notified by the Metropolitan Police that they are at a very early stage in investigating whether MGN is criminally liable for the alleged unlawful conduct by previous employees in relation to phone hacking on the Sunday Mirror".

She said the group "takes these allegations seriously", adding: "It is too soon to know how these matters will progress and further updates will be made if there are any significant developments."

One of the Sunday Mirror journalists arrested was former editor Tina Weaver, who worked at the paper between 2001 and 2012, and was detained in a dawn raid by the Met in March.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "As with any investigation we carry out, we do not identify suspects or anybody arrested or anybody we may we wish to speak to.

"That goes for corporations the same as it does for individuals."

Trinity Mirror's share price dropped by more than 6% soon after it announced the police investigation, although it later recovered.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24059941

Luckily Piers Morgan doesn't know anything about that sort of thing so I'm sure he's not remotely worried.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



Loonytoad Quack posted:

:woop:

And so it begins... again:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24059941

Luckily Piers Morgan doesn't know anything about that sort of thing so I'm sure he's not remotely worried.
Good to see the investigations are still ongoing :getin:

Sex Vicar
Oct 11, 2007

I thought this was a swingers party...
Has there been any movement on the publication of Blue-Chip Hacking companies? Last I saw, SOCA maneged to nix it by claiming there was nine companies that had legal proceedings against and had three companies and one person removed from the list who were allegedly involved (Which the times named as Allianz, Delloite, Credit Suisse and Simon Cowell) that put a block on Keith Vaz's plans to release it. Seems like there's a lot of police interference on publishing the list.

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.
In more New sUK news, turns out nobody will pay £1 for tits and poo poo puns on the internet http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/16/sun-paywalls

Greenslade for the Graun posted:

Sun online's disastrous paywall start as traffic plunges by 62%

Web metrics sometimes appear to resemble opinion polls in that the questioner gets the desired result. They are more believable when a web measurement company is entirely dispassionate and neutral.

That's the case with SimilarWeb, which is based in Tel Aviv. So I commend its research into The Sun's online traffic over the past two months.

It compared data after the the paper erected its paywall in August with that in the previous month. Here are the headline findings:
    *Monthly site visits down by 62.4% from 37.3m visits in July to 14.4m visits in August.

    *Average time spent on site down by 67.4% from 3:59 minutes in July to 1:18 minutes in August.

    *Bounce rate up by 31% from 47.5% in July to 68.9% in August. (For the uninitiated, bounce rate is a metric that records visitors who click on a site and then leave without going on to access content within it. So the higher the bounce rate percentage, the worse the site's performance).
By any standards, I think this amounts to a disastrous start for The Sun's paywall strategy. I have to say I am surprised. I expected the paper to do better, not least because of the Sun+ goals app.

But it is early days and there will surely be an improved take-up rate over the coming months.

You can see more of the research details, along with a graphic showing the drop in traffic, on SimilarWeb's site here. And you can see how it collects its worldwide data here.

Oh dear.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...
On the other hand, given the terrible money that web advertising pays, it wouldn't surprise me if they were making more money despite the drop in readers.

Pasco
Oct 2, 2010

While I wish nothing but harm on The Sun and all who sail in her, it's received wisdom that erecting a paywall on a previously free website is expected to result in around a 90% reduction in traffic.

These numbers for The Sun actually seem disappointingly positive, so let's hope it does eventually prove disastrous.

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

Pasco posted:

While I wish nothing but harm on The Sun and all who sail in her, it's received wisdom that erecting a paywall on a previously free website is expected to result in around a 90% reduction in traffic.

These numbers for The Sun actually seem disappointingly positive, so let's hope it does eventually prove disastrous.

I'm more interested in the sociological impact than whether or not it hurts murdoch's bottom line. If a large portion of the websites' original readership is no longer reading it, where have they gone to get their news? If it's the mail then :eng99:, but if it's driving people to (marginally) better sources of information like the beeb then I couldn't be happier...

pitch a fitness
Mar 19, 2010

StarkingBarfish posted:

I'm more interested in the sociological impact than whether or not it hurts murdoch's bottom line. If a large portion of the websites' original readership is no longer reading it, where have they gone to get their news? If it's the mail then :eng99:, but if it's driving people to (marginally) better sources of information like the beeb then I couldn't be happier...

I can't remember where I saw this - probably in a former version of this thread - Sun readers who have to pick something else typically buy The Star instead.

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

Firing Cirrus posted:

I can't remember where I saw this - probably in a former version of this thread - Sun readers who have to pick something else typically buy The Star instead.

Wasn't that for the physical medium rather than the website though? Even the star is a minor improvement, mind you.

Loonytoad Quack
Aug 24, 2004

High on Shatner's Bassoon
The reviews for The Sun app since they went pay-only are amusing:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.thesun.mobile

Loonytoad Quack fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 17, 2013

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

StarkingBarfish posted:

Wasn't that for the physical medium rather than the website though? Even the star is a minor improvement, mind you.

I hope that's sarcasm. The Daily Star is pretty much the house rag of the English Defence League and makes the Daily Mail look like the Morning Star. It really is the worst newspaper in Britain and only the pathetic readership figures it gets prevent it from being far more dangerous than it is.

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StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

goddamnedtwisto posted:

I hope that's sarcasm. The Daily Star is pretty much the house rag of the English Defence League and makes the Daily Mail look like the Morning Star. It really is the worst newspaper in Britain and only the pathetic readership figures it gets prevent it from being far more dangerous than it is.

That shows how much I know- I thought it was zero content, but left leaning? Or am I getting mixed up with the Mirror?

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