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Andre Banzai posted:The whole question is... why the hell 2 different new insignias? One for MECs, one for MELDed soldiers. Though the bioagumentation one mostly being a BIOHAZARD symbol does raise some concerns.  
Welmu fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:21
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Edgecase posted:No, just a whole new endgame, which is probably a good thing. Once you beat the satellite coverage portion of the game, it makes more sense to introduce a new challenge than to try and squeeze more life out of the same mechanic. Adding a new faction that competes for council funding and sabotages your process isn't just a simple new mechanic. That's a drastic overhaul of the game. That's not what this is. It could simply be research holding you back from going all the way down both tech trees. You capture a device that the scientists can either use to research gene mods or augmentations.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:26
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Welmu posted:One for MECs, one for MELDED soldiers. Though the bioagumentation one mostly being a BIOHAZARD symbol does raise some concerns. I didn't make myself clear, I apologize. Does that mean that XCOM will adopt 2 new insignias beside Vigilo Confido? That seems a bit weird, doesn't it? Will it have separate insignias for different soldiers? I don't know, it just seems a bit weird. Also, in the Council Message teaser for EW, one of the insignias (the biohazard one) flashes in the background. And the transmission is being actively tampered with. It's all really weird. Interestingly, this seems to break down advancement between "Vahlen's path" and "Shen's path". But of course, Shen would never agree with mutilating XCOM's own soldiers. Anyway, all these new technologies place XCOM treading firmly down the Ethereal path.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:28
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Alternatively, using too many of one modification type on one trooper might make them incompatible with the other type.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:28
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Cythereal posted:Alternatively, using too many of one modification type on one trooper might make them incompatible with the other type. Mech troopers are completely incompatible with the gene mods and vice versa.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:30
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Andre Banzai posted:I didn't make myself clear, I apologize. Does that mean that XCOM will adopt 2 new insignias beside Vigilo Confido? That seems a bit weird, doesn't it? Will it have separate insignias for different soldiers? I don't know, it just seems a bit weird. Different branches of armed forces usually have differing insignia, just like you color you classes differently. Don't you?  Andre Banzai posted:Also, in the Council Message teaser for EW, one of the insignias (the biohazard one) flashes in the background. And the transmission is being actively tampered with. It's all really weird. It's not the BIOHAZARD symbol: It's probably the logo of whatever faction/cult was loony enough to welcome the enslaving ethereals with open arms. Think of the people welcoming aliens in Independence Day, but replace slow-mo explosions with psionics and infiltration: Church of Scientology, turned up to 11. Welmu fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:30
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Cythereal posted:Alternatively, using too many of one modification type on one trooper might make them incompatible with the other type. Yeah, they could just be talking about a single unit when saying that you can't go all the way with both -- and not the overall research.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:30
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Mokinokaro posted:Mech troopers are completely incompatible with the gene mods and vice versa.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:33
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I always thought "Vigilo, Confido" meant something like "Vigilant, Secret (Confidential)". Anyways, they need to open up a pre-order so I can throw money at them 
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Aug 21, 2013 18:33
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Christian Knudsen posted:Yeah, they could just be talking about a single unit when saying that you can't go all the way with both -- and not the overall research. I'd be disappointed if that was true. I want to spend all of my MELD or whatever on a single super-soldier. All my tactics will revolve around that soldier. The rest of the team are expendable and only used in the purpose of getting more MELD.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:41
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From what I understand from the video, it seems to be more, 'well, you're replacing your legs with metal, you can't gene-mod /metal/' sort of deal. You can do both, but it limits just how far you can customise people in either branch -- which is fine by me. What I wonder is how this is going to work with Psionics.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:44
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Welmu posted:It's not the BIOHAZARD symbol: Holy poo poo, that is completely incredible. Thanks for that. Wow, an actual infiltration force by the aliens or a "Cult of Sirius", that sounds really cool.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:44
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teethgrinder posted:They specifically said in that first interview that they're not, just that you'd be unlikely to get far in both paths. Mech troopers cannot get genetic upgrades, but the rest of your troops can get them even if you got mechs on the roster. Edit: Also, the logo for the Cult of Sirius in Apocalypse if anyone who didn't play it was wondering: 
Slashrat fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:46
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fspades posted:I'd be disappointed if that was true. I want to spend all of my MELD or whatever on a single super-soldier. All my tactics will revolve around that soldier. Here's a teaser on MELD upgrades:  You can Catch Them All!™, like skill perks, but you'll probably run out of MELD at some point: it's basically another highly valuable resource, like Elerium. fspades posted:The rest of the team are expendable and only used in the purpose of getting more MELD. In the interview both devs mention their eager anticipation of fans instituting redshirt-rookies whose job it is to find MELD pinatas before they self-destruct. Dash forward into the unknown, you brave, poor bastard. Welmu fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:46
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Really liking what I've seen from this. The fact that they add in options to add in replayability but don't force those options is a really good design. People who play and save scum even get options to help them playing. The angle of fire thing sounds like a great option, cover was a system that I didn't quite fully like with how binary it was in EU. I'm I am excited to hear more about EW, and of course play it! The only real concerns I have are power creep, which I'm sure they'll handle well, and the fact that a lot of players didn't like bomb missions for the fact that they forced you to move in an unsafe way. I think with the fact that MELD is a bonus rather than a pass/fail state will alleviate that. If this has steam workshop support (which I am pretty sure if it's not in this DLC, it'll happen eventually), I can see this XCOM series being played for a very long time by many people. Zudrag fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:47
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Welmu posted:It's not the BIOHAZARD symbol Definitely yes on it being a different symbol (XCOM and the two new ones are pentagons, the one in the transmission appears to be a hexagon). I could see the single-device explanation working out too. Give the super special alien artifact to Vahlen, get a Research Bonus on gene enhancement that makes them feasible to research. Give it to Shen, get a Research bonus on cybernetic augmentation technologies that makes them reasonable. You can still research the other tree, but it'll take forever.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:48
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Edgecase posted:Definitely yes on it being a different symbol (XCOM and the two new ones are pentagons, the one in the transmission appears to be a hexagon). In the interview, they mention that MECs and MELD stuff is available from very near the beginning: research & build a cybernetics or (and) genetics lab, respectively. Welmu fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:49
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Welmu posted:Here's a teaser on MELD upgrades: My guess is the Mech, and Gene implants will have the same body slots, so you can either have robot legs, or gene enhanced legs, or say lasers shooting from your eyes, or gene enhanced 10/10 vision.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:57
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Bizarre Echo posted:I'm a little worried that I haven't seen Jake " That's brilliant. "It's like chess with big guns against aliens. Which isn't like chess at all when I think about it..." I think I have a crush on Jake Solomon now.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:58
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" Solomon in any of the interviews for EW so far. His
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Theparker posted:My guess is the Mech, and Gene implants will have the same body slots, so you can either have robot legs, or gene enhanced legs, or say lasers shooting from your eyes, or gene enhanced 10/10 vision. Unlikely, given than becoming a MEC is a clearance sale in body parts: everything must go! MECs seem to only retain their head, and possibly their torso or parts thereof. It's not an À la carte choice like in Shadowrun of an arm here and a leg there, but a straight up Deus EX: HR replacement of the vast majority of your body. That's why I still think MEC and MELD upgrades to be mutually exclusive on a single soldier. MECs get their own skill tree along with railguns and flamers lovingly crafted by Shen, meatbags get alien bio-goop directly injected into their brain by Vahlen. who probably has a rather unnerving grin and a massive syringe Welmu fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 19:01
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quote:There's no way said tech in your soldiers brains can go wrong when psionic aliens arrive. Note the shot of an upgrade that prevents Panic and Mind Control(Stun is bad, but not as bad as Mind Control). It'll be interesting to see how compatible these mods and mechanisation is with the Psi upgrades. Could be these bar you somehow.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:09
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The Race to the Meld is going to cause so much heartache and gnashings of teeth. What a beautiful mechanic they threw in. I'm already getting anxiety about plunging into the fog of war.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:11
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Maybe the doctors at XCOM just slice off the soldier's bodyparts and keep their limbs in cryogenic storage so that they can be reattatched when the war is over/the soldier retires/they need to send off the soldier's body for a funeral and don't want too many questions asked by the family. Mutated soldiers would be harder to decommission. I guess it may be too much to ask to be able to retrieve robotic limbs for reuse whenever a mech soldier gets killed, but I hope you can at least recover weapon fragments and alloys.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:13
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Bloodly posted:Note the shot of an upgrade that prevents Panic and Mind Control(Stun is bad, but not as bad as Mind Control). It'll be interesting to see how compatible these mods and mechanisation is with the Psi upgrades. Could be these bar you somehow. speaking of which, if you can have a psi-Mech, that is the new sacrifice. Since clearly he's got nothing to look forward too after war. What with basically having traded all his human parts to be a war machine, and laws not really being designed to cover that poo poo.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:14
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Welmu posted:Different branches of armed forces usually have differing insignia, just like you color you classes differently. Don't you? Yeah, thinking about it now, that emblem (assuming that the teaser isn't 100% apocryphal at this point) is probably from some sort of mirror mirror version of XCom run by people who either took whatever offer the aliens may have made to "help" humanity "better itself". It would make a certain amount of sense if the new toys the player gets to use are slightly less limited version of what the Dark Rangers you periodically encounter have (because the aliens are really big on trying to slot entire species into specific roles). This would also open up some interesting new possibilities for council missions if you were eventually trying to say, save a VIP from not-XCom. The in-game explanation for the meld canisters on the maps they show up on might be that they're supply drops for not-XCom (who might be doing the whole secret base thing just like XCom to ensure that a council nation doesn't just fire an ICBM to eliminate them?). If that's part of what they're doing with the exo-suit and eugenics-monster stuff then I'm pretty down with that.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:15
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Bloodly posted:Note the shot of an upgrade that prevents Panic and Mind Control(Stun is bad, but not as bad as Mind Control). Why, I seem to have inadvertently, and completely by accident, contradicted myself  Bloodly posted:It'll be interesting to see how compatible these mods and mechanisation is with the Psi upgrades. Could be these bar you somehow. The Star Wars approach: the less limbs Darth Vader has, the less midichlorians he has, leading to a lower Force stat.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:16
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Onmi posted:speaking of which, if you can have a psi-Mech, that is the new sacrifice. Since clearly he's got nothing to look forward too after war. What with basically having traded all his human parts to be a war machine, and laws not really being designed to cover that poo poo. Which speaks volumes about just how screwed up it is to mutilate your own soldiers and turn them into Robocops.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:16
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That's why I was hoping only grievously wounded soldiers could become mechs.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:17
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Maybe all the televions in front of the treadmills run these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl_Wd_vAQIU in a non-stop loop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SDoHUKBlHw Welmu fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 19:23
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Man, I just got the Slingshot DLC and figured I'd try out another classic ironman game. My assault dies because I forgot that one thinman was on overwatch and he got a crit in. Then my heavy panics and shoots the Triad guy, sigh. I guess I'll have to turn ironman off if I want to see it.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:23
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euphronius posted:That's why I was hoping only grievously wounded soldiers could become mechs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7h2IZQetVU "Legally they're dead. We can pretty much do what we want." It's no 'better'.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:27
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I mean the choice of a short life-time as a wounded near corpse in incredible pain vs mechanized demigodhood sounds somewhat more moral than just chopping off the arms and legs of a perfectly healthy woman.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:32
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Bloodly posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7h2IZQetVU I think it's more like "You lost your legs, if you want we can replace them with cybernetics but there's no backing out of the procedure" at that point, said soldier doesn't really have much left to go on to do anyway. Of course that's talking about tackling limb loss in an X-Com game and... yeah.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:32
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Morally speaking, the genetic path seems to be less terrible. Not only will the modified soldier still be able to feel the caress of another human being when the invasion ends, genetic changes like that should only affect the specimen on a phenotypical level, right? It wouldn't change his/her gametes. At least in theory, right? And well, the Bone Marrow modification seems actually good for the person. Unless it causes cancer in the long run. Oh well, I don't know what's worse.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:33
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euphronius posted:I mean the choice of a short life-time as a wounded near corpse in incredible pain vs mechanized demigodhood sounds somewhat more moral than just chopping off the arms and legs of a perfectly healthy woman. Consider how easily veterans are damaged by war and how many suffer from PTSD. Then imagine how a guy in an enormously powerful mechanized weapon, that he was put in after he almost died, might possibly react to that situaton.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:34
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It just makes us wonder how much we're willing to exploit soldiers to protect the earth. 
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Aug 21, 2013 19:35
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Andre Banzai posted:Which speaks volumes about just how screwed up it is to mutilate your own soldiers and turn them into Robocops. Their own fault for not reading amendment B468.42 on page 467 of the revised XCOM personnel contract. What are they gonna do, go on strike? Plenty more volunteers out there.
Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 19:36
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euphronius posted:I mean the choice of a short life-time as a wounded near corpse in incredible pain vs mechanized demigodhood sounds somewhat more moral than just chopping off the arms and legs of a perfectly healthy woman. A special operations soldier, tasked with defending the entire planet from alien incursion, might look more favourably on augments that enable them to run faster, weather enemy fire, and hit  harder. And, hey, no more worrying about things like exercise, fashion, or showering!Sure, the long-term effects are unknown, but that hasn't stopped people before. Being a mechanized demigod is probably a better option than mental enslavement by ethereals. Demiurge4 posted:Consider how easily veterans are damaged by war and how many suffer from PTSD. Then imagine how a guy in an enormously powerful mechanized weapon, that he was put in after he almost died, might possibly react to that situaton. 
Welmu fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 19:36
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Welmu posted:A special operations soldier, tasked with defending the entire planet from alien incursion, might look more favourably on augments that enable them to run faster, weather enemy fire, and hit This is going to lead to an apocalypse style sequel where we have the bio-augmented humans descendants who have just been utterly hosed because WHAT DID YOU EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU WENT loving AROUND WITH SOMEONES BIOLOGY?! And the augmented cyborg soldiers who are currently looking at being unable to find meaningful employment and a sudden lack of rights since hey, the line between human just got real loving blurred. So the new 'I-forget-the-mutant-activist-group' and S.E.L.F. to match our Cult of Sirius that seems to be popping up.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:39
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Welmu posted:Sure, the long-term effects are unknown, but that hasn't stopped people before. Being a mechanized demigod is probably a better option than mental enslavement by ethereals. And to be quite honest, I don't think X-COM attracts the most mentally stable soldiers who hope to die in bed surrounded by friends and family. I think the moment Dr. Vahlen starts talking about experimental genetic and cybernetic modifications that offer short-term power but unknown long term side effects, troopers will start lining up outside her door.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:40
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