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IOwnCalculus posted:Disagreed - the mileage penalty for a Grand Caravan is pretty significant, especially if the Mazda3 is big enough: He mentioned not being able to fit in a Hyundai (Elantra probably?) and a preference for larger spaces. The number of miles he drives isn't really high enough for the fuel economy to make that much of a dent, other than if he got a Suburban or something.
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Aug 26, 2013 05:30
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Throatwarbler posted:He mentioned not being able to fit in a Hyundai (Elantra probably?) and a preference for larger spaces. The number of miles he drives isn't really high enough for the fuel economy to make that much of a dent, other than if he got a Suburban or something. As a 6'4" guy who tries to fit in every car he sees, I can tell you there is basically no relationship to exterior size and being able to fit comfortably. Mazda 2: Bingo (I own one) Last gen mazda 3: Weird ergonomics kept me from buying Smart: Yes Hyundai Equus: A very surprising no. Fiat 500: Yes C5 RS6: No  I can't fit in miatas and lotuses though In fact, the chevy uplander is the least comfortable vehicle I've ever driven that I could sit in without getting stuck (hello Tesla roaster, that was embarrassing).
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Aug 26, 2013 07:44
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Suck it tall people: I fit into each every car (5'8"). It probably isn't true for nm, but I can comfortably fit 4 people into the Mazda2. Not "yeah, you can put 4 people in it", but actually drive around with 4 people in the car. Somebody who is 6'+ can sit in the back and not be in the fetal position. Modern cars rule.
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Aug 26, 2013 15:41
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FISHMANPET posted:Her view is completely irrational, and I recognize that, but sometimes you have to make compromises for domestic bliss. Look at the two variants of the Ford Focus, the sedan and the hatchback. That way you'll have at least looked at 4 different cars. If you still REALLY want the Spark after that, good on ya. =)
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Aug 26, 2013 16:44
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Phone posted:Suck it tall people: I fit into each every car (5'8"). I never have to worry about people standing in front of me at concerts  I can fit 3.5 people in the mazda 2. The .5 needs to have skinny or no legs. (or be a kid).
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Aug 26, 2013 22:26
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Throatwarbler posted:The Grand Caravan/Town&Country/Routan is the right vehicle for you. The StowNGo seats are great, and you can get them for much less than the equivalent Toyota or Honda. Will it be fine for towing the trailer? New vs used? How reliable are they nowadays? I've seen some that have extended warranties at the dealer but not sure if it's worth the trouble. Looking around I see a ton of them for $15-$16k that are in line with what I'm looking at.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:59
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So my lovely old SUV with 170,000 miles on it is in the shop for the third time this year (brakes went out, A/C died, then the radiator exploded) and I've decided to get a new one because I don't like it at all and never did and it can feel my hate and is breaking on purpose to try to kill me, obviously. I have never bought a car before, I inherited this one as a hand-me-down from my mom when she got a new car. I also don't know anything about models of cars, but I can generally identify all the parts in an engine and I change my own oil and replaced some hosed-up brake lines under my dad's supervision once  Proposed Budget: Ideally up to $10,000, max out at $15,000, mayyybe $18,000 if I have a really goddamn good reason to. New or Used: Sorry but I honestly don't know  I'm only 22 so a new car's lower insurance rates might offset the insurance penalty they're hitting me with for being young, and a warranty would be nice, but I don't know if that would balance out with the lower cost of a (reliable) used car.Body Style: I like 4-door sedans personally, or really anything that can seat 4 people comfortably, and I'm 6'3" so it needs to have enough space for my giant head and long gangly legs. How will you be using the car?: Driving to work and around town mostly. I live really close to work and in a small town so my commutes to 90% of the places I go are under 20 miles away and traffic is usually fine. I do like to travel elsewhere by car more than plane though, so something that could drive across the country without falling apart would be neat, though that's not really a huge factor. What aspects are most important to you?: Fuel efficiency, reliability, relatively comfortable, being able to fit some friends in so we can go to lunch or whatever, My car enthusiast friend has a 2012 350z which terrifies me and which I can barely fit in, and my other car enthusiast friend at the other end of the spectrum has a 2013 Ford F-150 that could drive right through a concrete wall and has something resembling a goddamn flight computer built into the dash that shows you the orientation of the truck in three dimensions. I just want a nice metal box I can putter around town with my boring friends in.
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Aug 27, 2013 04:33
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:So my lovely old SUV with 170,000 miles on it is in the shop for the third time this year (brakes went out, A/C died, then the radiator exploded) and I've decided to get a new one because I don't like it at all and never did and it can feel my hate and is breaking on purpose to try to kill me, obviously. I figured I would throw in my two cents. I am a horrible, no good car salesman, but I will attempt to keep bias to a minimum. A few things to consider on the money side of it. Along with insurance rates, if you plan on financing, you will pay lower interest rates on new cars vs used. You could have an $18,000 new car and a $15,000 used car and pay the exact same monthly payment, depending. (btw, try to stay over $10,000...any lower and interest rates shoot up and you could actually have higher monthly payment than on a used car a little newer and a couple thousand dollars more) But you can probably get "more car" for your money going the used route. On the new car side, at the top of your price range, I would suggest an LX honda civic. It is a base model, but it comes with backup camera standard, Bluetooth, USB, iPod and pandora interface, etc. cost of ownership is low due to them using the same engine and transmission that has been in the civic since 2006, but gets roughly 39 mpg highway. The msrp is up around $19000+, but what honda dealers don't want you to know is that they currently have something called "flex cash" from honda. You can get them to use that as down payment towards your car (most dealers do $500, but you can get them to go up to $750 usually) and after negotiating, if it has no accessories (all weather mats, mud guards, etc) you should be able to get them down to between $17,988 and $17,488. And they have 0.9 percent financing for up to 60 months currently. Used car side, I would suggest a Toyota Camry due to reliability and again, more car for your money. Used honda that is not older will still cost a pretty penny. One last thing I will leave you with is that you should also entertain the idea of leasing. I know, it sounds dirty, but leasing laws have changed drastically since the late 90's to protect consumers. In fact, I will dub this a general lease info course below. Quick FAQ on leases "But I don't want to lease, I want to own my car Juando290. Why wouldn't I just finance?" If you finance, you don't own your car either, a lender does. You don't own it until you have the title in hand. Fun fact...less than 20% of people who finance ever actually make their final payment. The average time that people keep a car in the US is about 45+ months but they finance for 60. "I heard that they limit your miles and charge a penalty if you go over." Yes and no. You get charged a penalty no matter what, if you lease, finance, or even buy outright. That penalty is depreciation. So if you finance and decide that you want to trade in, you are "charged" based off condition and how many miles are on the car affecting its current value, with every mile over the average of 15k a year, is roughly 25 cents subtracted from normal value. Either way you are paying for it, at least in a lease it is in writing and you can plan for it. And if you know that you are most likely going to drive more than the lease allows, you can pre pay miles...at a discounted rate from normal depreciation. So, for example. You have a car that is roughly $20k. Normal lease is, let's say $160 a month, for 36 months, and 12k miles a year with a residual amount of $15,000 (the amount that you can buy the car for at the end of lease...this is roughly what the manufacturer believes the car will be worth after the time period of your lease, and I will explain a little later how this can benefit you.) But you know that you will probably do 15k a year. Depending on the manufacturer, you can pay, let's say 15 cents for each mile for those extra 3000 miles a year instead of the normal 25 cents per mile that you would be charged at the end of lease for going over(again, 25 cents is just the normal depreciation you would have to deal with if you financed anyway). It raises your payment by $37.50 a month, and $1,350 over the course of the lease, but ultimately saves you $900 at the end of lease, because if you didn't pre pay the extra miles, it would cost you $2,250 in over milage fees at the end of lease. Again, that is charged at the the same rate as national average of depreciation per mile driven of 25 cents a mile. The other thing you did when you paid the extra is that it lowered your residual by $1,350 down to $13,650. And that is important in the following segment... Benefits to leases: So, the big difference between leasing and financing is that with a lease, you are only paying for what you use. In financing, you are responsible for the whole thing. Like the example above, you are only paying for a little over $6,000 of the car, where if you finance, you are liable for all $20k of it. After 36 months, you have way more options than with financing. As most economist will tell you, you want to purchase things that are an investment and have the possibility of making you money, and you never want to own something that depreciates/is an expense. Those things you wan to rent. Plus, in a lease, since you are paying for "less" of the car, your payments are lower, freeing up funds for other ventures ( a great example would be financing a car for $300 a month and having a credit card you pay the minimum fee on, vs a lease at 180 a month and using the $120 not going to a car and adding it to your credit card payment and actually making a dent in it) Those options on a lease I stated above are trading in at the end or near the end of lease, turning the car in at the end of lease, or purchasing the car at the end of lease if you really like it. An example of trading in at the end of lease - so, remember that residual of 13,650? Well, let's say that you pre paid those extra miles, but you ended up not actually using them and actually only drove 13000 miles a year, and the manufacturer guessed incorrectly on what the value of the car would be at the end of lease (maybe you have a car that gets great gas milage, and gas prices have risen to the point that your car is more valuable than expected)...so we will make up an arbitrary number of a trade value of $15,200. If your residual is $13,650...that means you have $1,550 equity in the car, and you can trade it in on your next new vehicle (probably another lease, right?) you basically got all the extra money you put in back, plus a little extra on top of that. Now if you financed in this situation, you would come out the same if you owed the same amount after 36 months, but that is where the similarities end. Now on the flip side...let's say that the residual is the same, but for whatever reasons, the manufacturer was incorrect on what the value would be after 36 months and trade would be $12,000. Well, at that point you just turn it in and wipe your hands of it. It is now the manufacturers burden on what to do with a vehicle that is worth less than what they were paid for it. You get to start out with a fresh slate. If you were one of those financiers, you are responsible for the vehicles worth. You owe $13,650 and the value is $12,000, and for whatever reasons, you need a different car...guess what...you have to deal with that $1,650 disequity and most likely roll it into your new car. Now your payments are higher. You could continue paying until you catch up and finally get to a point of having equity (you eventually will as the interest you are paying gets smaller and smaller) but it could take another year of payments or more before you crack it. Leasing allows you to be more flexible. Do you know what kind of lifestyle changes are going to happen within 5 to 6 years? Maybe a new job requiring a vehicle with better gas milage, maybe one or two unexpected kids that will require a bigger vehicle? Leasing allows you to be more fluid with the changes that happen in life since you are usually looking at 3 year intervals on vehicles. Another benefit is that you are always under full warranty on your car since you will not go over your drivetrain warranty during the lease and rarely go over the bumper to bumper coverage. Another factor to consider is accidents. Since leasing, or financing, you have to have full coverage either way. If you are financing and you happen to have a boo-boo that is reported to insurance, even after it is fixed, the value instantly drops fairly noticeably on the car, feeding the disequity you will have down the line. Again, as long as it was repaired to spec, at the end of lease, you can turn it in at no additional cost to you, starting with a clean slate once again. I will leave you with this snippet of information that should make it pretty clear that leasing is the way to go. With Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes, 81% of their vehicle sales are leases. On average, people who lease these vehicles also tend to be people who could afford to buy them outright with cash. Why would these wealthy people who either tend to be known for being able to manage finances in their favor, or pay other people to do it for them, opt for making payments with interest on something rather than just purchasing? Because, as countless experts and publications have stated (wall street journal, Forbes, fortune magazine, edmunds, etc) you do not want to own something that depreciates. Sadly, the people that would benefit the most from leasing are the least likely to do it. Leasing was a horrible way to get hosed over back before 1997 because companies could charge you whatever they wanted and did not have to disclose how much of your payment was interest and how much was going towards the car, and they could make you liable for the residual at the end, etc. Now, the manufacturer is liable for the residual. basically, leasing got a bad name because it was bad, and dealers got a bad name, because they were predatory on their leasing practices. After 1997, that all changed, but it is hard to wash that bad taste out of your mouth. That is about it. I will also let you know, you can negotiate the price on a lease the same as if you were financing or paying cash, making your payments even lower again, but don't tell my customers that. haha (the dealer cant change the residual though, other than the aforementioned pre pay of miles or adding accessories or whatnot, and you don't wan them to be able to, that is why leasing was so hosed up back in the day because dealers COULD change the residual back then.) I don't want to bogart this thread any more than I just did. If people want to learn a bit about the car industry, I would be willing to start an "ask me" thread about it, but I don't know how much interest there would be. Juando290 fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 10:25
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Juando290 posted:Quick FAQ on leases Thanks for the good write up. I tire of how people have a knee-jerk reaction against leases. They are just a financial tool like anything else and can be used intelligently or stupidly. That said, it seems that many people who lease are not making a fully-informed or educated decision and get themselves into a bad situation. I can somewhat understand how the BFC bandwagon is anti-leasing, especially for people trying to figure out all this financial stuff for the first time. I haven't personally leased a vehicle, but I could see it being an appealing option in the future - especially on cars with good residuals.
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Aug 27, 2013 17:47
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Can I transfer my existing plates to a new car? My plates expire Sept 10th and I've already paid the renewal. It was only $40 or so, but I'd like to apply that towards the new registration, and also keep the same plates. Or should I just eat the $40 and get new plates? And I'm probably going to donate my existing car to charity so I don't really care about keeping its registration anyway...
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Aug 27, 2013 18:37
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wow I had no idea people turn their cars over so quickly. Seems nuts to buy a heavily depreciating asset every 3 years.
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Aug 27, 2013 19:31
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Juando290 posted:Leasing I'm not looking at leasing right now so this is kind of a moot question, but when I bought a new car last year this was an option I considered. I ultimately passed because I drive a poo poo ton every year: about 35-40k miles. For future reference, did I make the right decision? I figured that leasing was mostly for people that drive a reasonable amount, and in my case I would be paying out the rear end for the extra miles.
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Aug 27, 2013 19:48
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FISHMANPET posted:Can I transfer my existing plates to a new car? My plates expire Sept 10th and I've already paid the renewal. It was only $40 or so, but I'd like to apply that towards the new registration, and also keep the same plates. Or should I just eat the $40 and get new plates? The rules probably vary by state, but normally you'd only bother to transfer vanity plates, not one of the ones with random strings. And transferring plates is not getting you free registration on the car you move it to, because registration fees are not based on having a license plate, they're based on registering the actual car for a given period of time. So no, you can't apply paid registration from one car to another car's registration. Also the cost of transferring vanity plates is probably very close to that $40, or above it, so that wouldn't make much sense anyway.
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Aug 27, 2013 20:01
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I meant applying the $40 or so towards the new higher registration. I kind of liked my old plates because I'd memorized the number but it's not really that big of a deal anyway...
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Aug 27, 2013 20:04
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FISHMANPET posted:Can I transfer my existing plates to a new car? My plates expire Sept 10th and I've already paid the renewal. It was only $40 or so, but I'd like to apply that towards the new registration, and also keep the same plates. Or should I just eat the $40 and get new plates? It does depend on state, in my state (Oregon) there are a couple ins to consider. If you are getting a new car, registration is higher, but it is good for four years. You can transfer plates and save over $100 though. If you just renewed the registration, you are just paying for the transfer fee. In Oregon, the date of expiration is all that matters, so you can ride out your remaining reg on the new car. If it is a used car, it is a standard 2 year for new plates, so you might as well transfer.
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Aug 27, 2013 20:47
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We leased our most recent vehicle and we're very happy with the decision. We choose to spend a portion of our disposable income on having a nice 'family' vehicle (aka my wife's SUV), and historically we change vehicles every 2 to 3 years. Money is cheap to borrow right now and residuals are high. Combined with any rebates or incentives you can get a very low lease payment right now on many vehicles. Leasing works well if you like to drive new vehicles under factory warranty, you don't drive an excessive amount of miles, you have very good to excellent credit, and you tend to trade your vehicles in every 3 years or so. I think the main thing that scares folks about leasing is the transaction is a little different than a purchase. I had typed some information about this a week ago, but never finished the post. They see terms like Cap Cost and Money Factor and it's harder to figure out where they're getting screwed. If anyone's interested I'll use our recent vehicle lease as a comparison. We wanted a new SUV that for the sake of this comparison cost 36,000 even. A nicely configured Explorer XLT if anyone cares. The rebates were the same from the manufacturer for both purchase and lease so lets say the price is the same. We live close to my wife's work, so we average about 12,000 miles a year in her car once we factor in family road trips. We are going to get rid of the car in approximately 3 years regardless if we purchase or lease. For a purchase, 36,000 is my out the door price with taxes, title, fees, etc. I'm approved from my credit union for 2.5% APR for 60 months or 3.0% for 72 months. My monthly payment on the car would be 639/mo for 60 months or 547/mo for 72 months. At the end of 36 months of making those traditional finance payments on the 72 month note I'll still owe 18.3K on the vehicle and will have made 20.4K in payments on the car. For the 60 month note I'll still owe 14.3K on the car but will have made 23K in payments on the car. Now for the lease transaction the 'Residual Value' comes into play. Basically a bunch of smart people at the finance company try to figure out what the car is going to be worth in the future. The residual value for a 36 month, 36K mile lease on my 36K MSRP SUV is 54% or $19,440. That value is set in stone and doesn't change (for a given term/mileage allowance). The number you negotiate on a lease is the "Cap Cost" or Capitalized Cost. Basically the amount of money you are financing. Just like a purchase transaction, incentives, rebates, fees, taxes, down payments all affect this number. The lower your cap number the less money you're financing. So MSRP on my SUV is 36,000 dollars, for the sake of making the comparison easy I have 2,000 in incentives that I'm going to use to offset my dealership fees and taxes so Capitalized Cost is going to be 36,000 just like in the purchase transaction. The 'Money Factor' on a 36 month, 12K/miles/year lease from ford is '.000625'. You can Google Money Factor and learn more about it, but basically multiply it by 2400 and it's your interest rate. Multiply out .000625 by 2400 and you get 1.5% interest. The interest rate on the lease is cheaper than the money I'm borrowing from my credit union in this case. Now some dealers can mark up the money factor. If they get you to pay 2.5% interest instead of 1.5% well that is extra money in their pocket. The lease agreement isn't going to show you an interest rate, it'll show you a money factor like 0.00104 or something and the average person doesn't know what the hell that is, but it's a small number so who cares. That little number can be the difference between a payment of 488 dollars or a payment of 510 dollars. Those extra 22 dollars a month usually go straight to the dealer. An extra 800 dollars in profit that most people won't even notice. So now to calculate the lease payment. MSRP (sticker price of the car) - Residual = depreciation. in the case of my $36,000 MSRP SUV, the depreciation cost is $16,300 dollars. Divide that by 36 months ( the length of the lease) and the depreciation payment is $452.77, add in the finance charges of $34.81 a month and we have a lease payment of appx 488 dollars. So, now to tie this all together. We've calculated 3 different payments. $639 for a 60 month purchase @ 2.5% $547 for a 72 month purchase @ 3.0% $488 for a 36 month lease @ 1.5% interest (.000625 Money Factor). Leasing allows me to drive the same vehicle at a lower payment. Juando290 touched on a few of the other benefits of leasing in a post above. Let's talk about when your lease is over. As you come towards the end of your lease you have several options available to you, and the market price for you leased vehicle is probably going to steer you one way or the other. Let's fast forward to September 2016 when we dispose of the car. Scenario 1: Value of the car is less/way less than the residual value calculated 3 years ago. Gas prices are 7 dollars a gallon and SUV's that are lucky to get 20MPG like the Explorer aren't selling worth a drat. The car is maybe worth 14,000 dollars if your lucky. If you financed for 60 months at 2.5% you still owe about what the car is worth (14.3K) but you've already made 23,000 in payments towards the car. You're basically even at this point but your out of pocket is 23K. If you financed for 72 months at 3.0% you're seriously upside down. You still owe $18,300 on your loan making you 4300 dollars upside down. You've already made $20,400 in payments and now you have to find a way to roll over the negative equity or come up with difference out of pocket. Ouch! Total out of pocket on this car would be 24,700 dollars. If you leased, you turn the car in to the dealer, maybe pay a small lease end fee (~400 bucks) and laugh as you walk away realizing the leasing company just lost their rear end on your deal. Total out of pocket is appx 18,000 dollars (17,568 in payments and 400 lease end fee) For Scenario 1 we can see leasing is clearly a better deal to the tune of 5 to almost 7 thousand dollars as the leasing company is taking the hit on the difference between market price and residual value. Scenario 2: Value of the car is equal to calculated residual (19,700) If you financed for 60 months you have about $5,400 in equity in the car (19.7K residual - 14.3K loan balance). You can use this towards a new downpayment on your next car to lower you monthly payment. You're still out 23,000 in payments over 3 years though, so your net out of pocket in this scenario is 17,600. If you financed for 72 months there will be about $1,400 in equity in the car (19.7 residual - 18.3K loan) making your net out of pocket at the end of 36 months appx 19,000 dollars. If you leased your net out of pocket is about 18,000 dollars. 1000 dollars less than financing the car for 72 months, and only 400 dollars worse than financing the car for 60 months and you didn't have to tie up the extra 5,000 dollars in car payments over the course of 36 months. You could have put that money to better use every month. Scenario 3: Value of car is greater than calculated residual. Let's say the market for SUV's is hot in September 2016 and you can easily get 23,000 for your car. Financed for 60 months your net out of pocket is going to only be $14,300 which is fantastic (23K in payments -8.7K in equity). Financed for 72 months your out of pocket is going to be $15,700 which is still better than the lease (20.4K in payments -4.7K in equity) Leasing - your out of pocket on the lease is 17.6K in lease payments, but since the market is so hot you decide to buy your car at the end of the lease for the pre-negotiated residual value of 19.7K. You buy the car for 19.7K but then turn around and trade it in for 23K reducing your out of pocket 3300 more dollars making your net cost over 36 months 14.3K, the same as the 60 month financing, but once again reducing cash outlay over 36 months by 5,000 dollars. Another option with leasing is you can trade the lease in early if the market value is high enough or you just want out early. We plan on doing this with our Ford lease, but you have to be careful as many lease agreements have clauses in them where you can't terminate the lease with X months left or whatever. Double triple check and never trust the salesman. I'm not saying they'll outright lie to you, but they may just not know about the fine print. We plan on trading in our 2012 Explorer sometime in 2014 right before the 2015's hit the lot. If the Explorers keep their value the way they have been we should be able to pull a couple thousand in equity at that given point in time vs our lease buyout amount. Now before someone jumps all over my rear end this is just an example scenario. There are dozens of variables that can affect a leasing scenario. Interest rates move a point or two, incentives are better on purchase vs. lease etc, different states treat taxes on leased vehicles differently. You have to run the numbers for your own scenario and see how it turns out. With the current market of high residuals and low interest rates now is a very very attractive time to lease a vehicle if leasing a vehicle makes sense for you. Hikaki posted:I'm not looking at leasing right now so this is kind of a moot question, but when I bought a new car last year this was an option I considered. I ultimately passed because I drive a poo poo ton every year: about 35-40k miles. For future reference, did I make the right decision? I figured that leasing was mostly for people that drive a reasonable amount, and in my case I would be paying out the rear end for the extra miles. Correct, leasing would probably not be a good deal for you. I also drive alot, around 24K miles a year and I've come to terms I'm going to be putting 250K+ miles on my current car. If you're getting reimbursed per mile though, leasing might make sense for you. I'm most familiar with Ford products and their lease rules. Say you wanted a 2012 Taurus SHO (as I can find accurate numbers for that vehicle on edmunds). A 2012 Taurus SHO with a 36 month lease of 19.5K miles a year has a .5% interest rate and a residual value of 43% of MSRP. You can also prepay additional miles up front at a reduced rate. It's 10 to 15 cents a mile I think but can vary per car. There was a 3250 dollar incentive on the Taurus SHO at the time those rates were published so lets compare costs for purchase vs. lease. 45,000 MSRP for the Taurus SHO. 3,250 in incentives and 4500 in discounts as these don't sell anywhere close to MSRP. Let's call our base vehicle price 37,250 and throw in 8% for taxes and fees. That makes our net purchase price or cap cost about 40,250. Assuming 3 years @ 35K miles per year Lease payment = 40,250 cap cost + 7K in extra miles (46.5K miles *15cents) - (19,350 residual) = 27900 depreciation amount /36 months = 775 + monthly finance charge (.00021 money factor x (47250+27900)) = 790/mo with the caveat I'm not exactly sure how the extra mileage charge affects the residual on the car or if it's added to cap cost or not so this may not be correct. I'm assuming the extra mileage charge keeps the residual rate the same as they probably don't work up residual rates for 35K miles/yr. Standard Purchase @ 2.5% for 60 and 40,250 purchase price = 714.33 /mo A 24 month lease on the car with 19.5K miles has a 53% residual. 40,250 cap + 4800 in extra miles (32K extra @ 15 cents) = 45,050 - 23850 residual = 21,200 depreciation /24 months =883.33 + finance charge of 13.91/mo = 897.24/month Then we have to do the out of pocket comparision etc etc.... poo poo. I just wasted 90 minutes of my day on this post. Hope it helps someone and my information isn't too off base.
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Aug 27, 2013 21:38
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Xguard86 posted:wow I had no idea people turn their cars over so quickly. Seems nuts to buy a heavily depreciating asset every 3 years. I actually have to for work because my company has a rule where our vehicles can't be over 100k miles and I drive about 35k per year. They pay me a car allowance though. My last car I had a little under two years and that's going to be how long I'll have the one I own now for as well. I bought both of those with about 35k on the odometer though.
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Aug 27, 2013 21:43
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FISHMANPET posted:Can I transfer my existing plates to a new car? My plates expire Sept 10th and I've already paid the renewal. It was only $40 or so, but I'd like to apply that towards the new registration, and also keep the same plates. Or should I just eat the $40 and get new plates? A quick google search says that in Minnesota, the plates stay with the car unless they are custom plates. Registration Refund: Despite what the former says, when you dispose of the car, I suggest keep the plates. You'll need to return them when you use this form. https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/forms-documents/Documents/MV_ClaimforRefund.pdf They may tell you that you shouldn't have kept the plates. If they do, play dumb and point at the box on the bottom of the form that says clearly "HAVE PLATES/STICKERS BEEN RETURNED?" and claim that you thought you had to turn in the plates to the DMV because that's how your parents did it when you were a kid (or some bullshit similar story) Been out to look at that Focus yet? 
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Aug 27, 2013 22:44
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I'm looking at a 2004 Pontiac Vibe with about 146k miles and a list price of $5600. A few questions: - The Carfax shows that it got about 30k as a rental in its first year. After that, it only had one owner. How true is the rental car stigma? - The dealer is an actual Honda dealership, not just a used lot. Does that mean anything for the current state of the car? I'm under the impression that cars with existing problems get auctioned or otherwise don't stay on a big dealer's lot. For reference, I hope to negotiate the price down to $5000-5400 including taxes and fees.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:59
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I ended up going with a 2014 Focus ST, really pumped. Got an A-plan hookup in the family so I'm getting a screaming deal. Thanks thread!
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Aug 27, 2013 23:44
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The leasing information is pretty interesting. I've never considered leasing a car, I guess mostly because of the bad rap. If there isn't already a leasing thread it would be awesome if someone made one and had it put in the OP of this thread
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Aug 27, 2013 23:49
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Thanks for the in-depth response Juando290 (and others)! I hadn't even really considered leasing, as my dad is of the "Cars have to last until they completely fall apart around you" school of thought and laughs at the idea of leasing and I guess it rubbed off a bit. It does sound like a better option for me since I do foresee my life getting somewhat overhauled in the next 5 years or so. I appreciate the car suggestions too, gonna go research them right now.
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Aug 27, 2013 23:53
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Maultaschen posted:I'm looking at a 2004 Pontiac Vibe with about 146k miles and a list price of $5600. A few questions: I had a 2003 Vibe GT that *wasn't* a rental. I bought it in 2006 with about 24k on the clock and sold in in 2008 (trade in on my '97 M3) with about 38k on the clock. In April 2008, my 11 year old, 124k/mile BMW had fewer squeaks, rattles, and 'gripes' and things-that-I-think-are-about-to-go-to-poo poo than my 5 year old I can't imagine what a rental Vibe would be like, even if the second owner was my mom...who has put over 250k miles (6.5k/year) on her '71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible. She's owned it since 1974, and it's on its third complete engine teardown/rebuild currently. She really takes care of her car. I would say "cars" but, well, there's only been the one for almost as long as I've known her. FWIW, my 124k/mile BMW now has 195,000 miles, and STILL has fewer squeaks, rattles and gripes than that Vibe did. I would recommend pretty much any of these that aren't a 7-series before I would recommend that Vibe to you. Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 23:54
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Kenny Rogers posted:Run. Do not walk, RUN away from this car. Wait, Vibes are supposed to have a pretty good reputation? Consumer Report awards and good reliability scores on Edmunds and all that. I do plan to test drive this one on Thursday. Also, I had my mechanic do a pre-purchase inspection on a Mazda 3 yesterday. Turned out to have a bunch of problems with the right front wheel, including a bent rim. Illegal window tint, too. Ran away from that one.
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Aug 28, 2013 00:22
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I'm also going to chime in as a supporter of leases. I'm also horribly biased since I sell cars, but we love leases. Especially in the luxury market, leasing is far more popular than purchasing. It's generally a much more cost-effective way of having a nice car. I'm presently leasing since I like having a luxury car with cutting-edge technology, and that's by far more affordable if I'm not purchasing the car. I could pay $500 a month and be able to walk away from the car completely in three years, or pay $800 a month for five years and be seriously upside-down on the car for much of the time. And really, I love European luxury cars dearly, but I wouldn't want to pay for the maintenance and upkeep after it's out of factory warranty. Yeah, people do trade cars a lot. It's rare that I get someone who wants to trade in a car that's older than 5 years old and has no payoff; the majority of the used cars I take in are 30-48 months old and still financed. Honestly, if you're going to trade cars more often than every 5-7 years, try leasing. And it's fine, we car salespeople don't mind if you ask us a ton of questions about how leasing works, what's included, and specific penalties for high mileage, excess wear and tear, and so on. Read all the fine print; it's worth it. Leasing isn't all scary and actually sometimes is awesome.
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Aug 28, 2013 02:34
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Maultaschen posted:Wait, Vibes are supposed to have a pretty good reputation? Consumer Report awards and good reliability scores on Edmunds and all that. I do plan to test drive this one on Thursday. Lease+Finance chat: For someone who did some stupid poo poo in the spring 2009 and tanked their credit, at what point (FICO Score) during the repair cycle should a lease become a viable option? My score has so far recovered to the middle third of the 600's (615-654, depending on bureau), and aggressively paying down what little cc debt I have is boosting my score as I go along. Leasing sounds pretty attractive, but I don't think I'm quite there yet - I'm shopping for a second car, and have a pre-approved package in the low 6% range. I figure (probably correctly) that talking to a dealer about leasing is still just going to waste both our times and get me a good chuckle at this point? (Y/n) Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 02:48
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Kenny Rogers posted:
Here's a screenshot of the link you posted.  You are unironically recommending someone buy a $5,000 E39 with a V8 instead of a loving Corolla because of reliability. purpleandgold posted:
For all your guys who said that you are going to "buy a car and keep it for 10 years and drive it into the ground" or some variation of such. Unless you're 65+ years old and already driving a 1997 Buick Lesabre, the chances of this happening are vanishingly remote. People's lives change, they get married, divorced, move to different towns with different climates/commutes, have kids, get jobs in other countries, get better jobs that allow them to buy newer/nicer cars, lose jobs, any number of a million different things that might result in changing cars. The younger you are, the more likely that this will happen to you and the demographic of the SA forums are probably younger than the national average. 25 year old kids are NOT going to be buying a car and keeping it for 10 years and 100k miles. Even if that's you *want* to do, I really wouldn't base my decisions on the assumption that it's going to work out that way.
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Aug 28, 2013 04:33
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FISHMANPET posted:Can I transfer my existing plates to a new car? My plates expire Sept 10th and I've already paid the renewal. It was only $40 or so, but I'd like to apply that towards the new registration, and also keep the same plates. Or should I just eat the $40 and get new plates? A plate costs $70 here but it's only $10 to transfer a plate to a new car.
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Aug 28, 2013 04:46
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If I buy a base model new car where a moonroof is not an option, is a dealer aftermarket installation ever an option? Or is it only some questionable specialty shop (which I won't do)?
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Aug 28, 2013 05:00
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CatchrNdRy posted:If I buy a base model new car where a moonroof is not an option, is a dealer aftermarket installation ever an option? Or is it only some questionable specialty shop (which I won't do)? This is a really bad idea and a recipe for leaks. If the dealer installs it, they're use the same shop you will. Sunroofs/moonroofs suck anyhow.
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Aug 28, 2013 05:05
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Throatwarbler posted:You are unironically recommending someone buy a $5,000 E39 with a V8 instead of a loving Corolla because of reliability. I linked every BMW between 5000 and 5500 (his price range) for sale in the entire USA. 7 series and all. I was at work, and didn't have a bunch of time to go through and cherrypick. Let me amend my statement. Pretty much any (stock) $5000-5500 E36 (1995-1999) 3-series (or possibly 5 series with an inline 6 - 525i, 528i, 530i) would be an equal or better bet (In my opinion, and based on my own experience with both cars) than the Vibe I owned. Particularly if you get maintenance records with it - which is a LOT easier to do/find with a BMW than a Pontiac. I've put 71k on the M3 in 5.5 years, and it's only needed Tires/Alignment/Wipers/Oil/Car Wash and some scheduled/preventive maintenance, which ran just a bit less than $1000: Water pump, thermostat + housing, hoses, radiator, brake pads/rotors. At 200k, it's The Vibe GT (which I admit he's not looking at) got 28 MPG. The M3 gets 23.5. The one place that I *have* to concede is that you can't sleep in the BMW very well, where the Vibe is pretty comfortable (if a bit stuffy after a while) if you flip the front seatback forward. Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 05:17
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CatchrNdRy posted:If I buy a base model new car where a moonroof is not an option, is a dealer aftermarket installation ever an option? Or is it only some questionable specialty shop (which I won't do)? Never ever ever do this. You are asking for trouble unless you are willing to go to a shop that will do it right...and at that point, you would save money if you had gotten the next step up in the first place (and it will most likely negatively affect your trade value or resale down the line) Kenny Rogers posted:Mine may be an "n=1" story, but it was a giant sack of poo poo, and I had the top of the line GT model. It never left me stranded or anything, but I had plenty of fit and finish problems (and a few mechanicals, like the 120v socket and the driver's window occasionally deciding to just not work at 100% anymore) developing when I dumped it. I'm generally pro-union, but the *noticeably* deteriorating condition (squeaky rattle developing behind the driver's side dash, about 4" down by the sound of it?) in a car with less than 40k was enough to put me off anything built by the UAW forever. Depending on manufacturer, if you can get financed, they will also lease to you. Again, using Honda as an example (since that is the dealer I am based at, though I sell on Chevy, ford, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru lots as well) Honda has three tiers of credit that they will approve for financing. They don't have special requirements for leases. If they can approve you through manufacturer financing, then you will have the option for leasing in the same tier. If you have no collections, you will be fine (people with a 700 score or above qualify for Hondas top tier currently, so you are close to breaking into their second tier right now...) Also, one last lease bit..if you are thinking about buying a house for any reason, leasing is also good on a car because your debt to income ratio is lower. Like my write up, your debt will not show $20,000 being financed, only $6,000. And Pontiac vibe/Toyota matrix. I had one of these as a work vehicle at my last job and it was the most prone to failure vehicle I have ever driven. My 1986 Volvo wagon 240 DL is more reliable than that car was. And the Volvo currently has 336000 miles on it. In a span of three years on the matrix, my boss had to replace wheel bearings multiple times, headlights burnt out all the time (some kind of voltage issue) transmission needed replaced, little bits broke here and there. One time it just decided to not start...junker. Whenever we have used ones on our lot, I don't show people them. Juando290 fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 05:19
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Hikaki posted:I'm not looking at leasing right now so this is kind of a moot question, but when I bought a new car last year this was an option I considered. I ultimately passed because I drive a poo poo ton every year: about 35-40k miles. For future reference, did I make the right decision? I figured that leasing was mostly for people that drive a reasonable amount, and in my case I would be paying out the rear end for the extra miles. I forgot to answer your question. You made the right decision not to lease...I believe the most you can pre pay for miles with most manufacturers is up to 100,000 miles over the whole lease. And yes, at that point, your payment would be outrageous. Only corporations take advantage of extreme high mile leases on fleet vehicles since they avoid corporate taxes that way, since they don't own the vehicle. Personally, think leasing makes sense as long as you keep it under 25-28k miles a year depending on vehicle.
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Aug 28, 2013 05:35
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nm posted:This is a really bad idea and a recipe for leaks. If the dealer installs it, they're use the same shop you will. Juando290 posted:Never ever ever do this. You are asking for trouble unless you are willing to go to a shop that will do it right...and at that point, you would save money if you had gotten the next step up in the first place (and it will most likely negatively affect your trade value or resale down the line) thanks won't do it!
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Aug 28, 2013 05:40
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Juando290 posted:Depending on manufacturer, if you can get financed, they will also lease to you. Again, using Honda as an example (since that is the dealer I am based at, though I sell on Chevy, ford, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru lots as well) Honda has three tiers of credit that they will approve for financing. They don't have special requirements for leases. If they can approve you through manufacturer financing, then you will have the option for leasing in the same tier. If you have no collections, you will be fine (people with a 700 score or above qualify for Hondas top tier currently, so you are close to breaking into their second tier right now...) quote:And Pontiac vibe/Toyota matrix.
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Aug 28, 2013 05:42
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CatchrNdRy posted:thanks won't do it! Just do a convertible conversion.
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Aug 28, 2013 05:51
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Rhyno posted:Just do a convertible conversion. I like the cut of your jib.
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Aug 28, 2013 06:02
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Juando290 posted:I like the cut of your jib. It's almost as impressive as the cut of my sawzall. Which will be helpful when we cut the loving roof off his car.
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Aug 28, 2013 06:05
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Rhyno posted:It's almost as impressive as the cut of my sawzall. Well, except for that one time, I guess. But after a visit to The Detailing Thread - Sperging About Bone Fragments and Paint Swirls it was good enough for Johnson, Nixon, and Ford! I'm in. When do we get started?
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Aug 28, 2013 07:04
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Throatwarbler posted:For all your guys who said that you are going to "buy a car and keep it for 10 years and drive it into the ground" or some variation of such. Unless you're 65+ years old and already driving a 1997 Buick Lesabre, the chances of this happening are vanishingly remote. People's lives change, they get married, divorced, move to different towns with different climates/commutes, have kids, get jobs in other countries, get better jobs that allow them to buy newer/nicer cars, lose jobs, any number of a million different things that might result in changing cars. The younger you are, the more likely that this will happen to you and the demographic of the SA forums are probably younger than the national average. 25 year old kids are NOT going to be buying a car and keeping it for 10 years and 100k miles. Even if that's you *want* to do, I really wouldn't base my decisions on the assumption that it's going to work out that way. Is this really that rare? I'm 32 and still driving my 99 Camry from college - and it'll probably go for another 5+ years. My wife's still driving her 97 Prizm from high school. It seems like everyone in my family keeps cars for 10 years or >200k miles.
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Aug 28, 2013 07:56
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