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Well to be fair, it's not an inaccurate description of the kind of corruption and twistedness of modern day terrorist organizations with religious leanings. It's all about power, nothing less.
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Aug 17, 2013 18:17
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I just would have preferred them to be a little less cartoony. You can have crazy fanatics without drugging and being kooky evil guys.
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Aug 18, 2013 01:47
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Pimpmust posted:If I'd change one thing it's the Terranists being such anime Evil/Crazy/Corrupt Cultists. Phezzan is supposed to be pretty drat rich, where's all that money going*? They've been planning that poo poo since forever. The reason they're so rich is that the money isn't going into maintaining a large military.
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Aug 18, 2013 02:50
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My favorite moment from this show was when they revealed that Oberstein isn't actually a cold, plotting saboteur. He's just scared of the other admirals and doesn't have much confidence.
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Aug 18, 2013 04:01
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Animal-Mother posted:My favorite moment from this show was when they revealed that Oberstein isn't actually a cold, plotting saboteur. He's just scared of the other admirals and doesn't have much confidence. I think it's both. Also, would you trust Bittenfeld with sensitive information that's vital to the political order of the galaxy, much less information that you yourself have not fully confirmed yet and so are not ready to use? On the other hand, if Oberstein let Mittermeyer in on some things, there wouldn't be a problem. I think Mittermeyer hated him the least of all the other admirals. Re: Terraists. I agree that giving them a fleet would've been silly. Letting them be the embodiment of terrorism and conspiracy that Yang talked about wasn't a bad choice. Still, their portrayal was unsatisfactory. I'm not saying a corrupt cult full of drugged fanatics with surprisingly wide reach (hello, Assassins, or at least Assassins as portrayed by their opponents!) was out of place, but they could've at least fleshed them out more, explained how they gained that reach or said what exactly de Villiers' deal was. The likes of Trunicht and Braunschweig were hardly sympathetic, but at least their motivations, origins and actions were explained pretty clearly. Meanwhile, de Villiers was just this guy who tried to plunge the galaxy into chaos for the hell of it (as he did not believe in Terraist dogma... whatever it was) and had a ridiculous evil laugh.
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Aug 18, 2013 04:50
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advokat posted:I think it's both. Did he sabotage the empire at some point? Do I actually need to spoiler things like this?
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Aug 18, 2013 22:31
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Animal-Mother posted:Did he sabotage the empire at some point? Do I actually need to spoiler things like this? Not in that sense, at least not on purpose. I did find myself wondering if his tactic of attracting everyone's hatred away from Reinhard did not eventually backfire - it certainly was a factor in Reuental's rebellion, for instance. Also, let me just add that I regret he never actually did go to talk to Reuental with Lang in tow like he threatened to. That would've been awesome.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:15
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Animal-Mother posted:My favorite moment from this show was when they revealed that Oberstein isn't actually a cold, plotting saboteur. He's just scared of the other admirals and doesn't have much confidence. When did this happen? I always remembered Oberstein not giving a poo poo about the other admirals or even Reinhardt when it came to matters of state. The admirals hated him because he was aloof, didn't socialise with them and was responsible for doing all the dirty stuff nobody wanted to do but they also knew his worth and value to the new Empire. I don't recall him sabotaging anything at all. His whole life is dedicated to his job but whether that was for his personal gain or for the greater good of the Empire was something that nobody really knew.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:27
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Kegslayer posted:
I think they're talking about when he goes to that planet that was rebelling against the Empire and is a total hardass and throws all the leaders in prison, then when Reinhard shows up and lets them all out he's treated like the good guy. That's the biggest example in my mind of Oberstein intentionally being an rear end in a top hat just to make the other leaders look better by comparison.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:45
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Actually, I think it was when the Narrator said that actually, Oberstein was the first man in the Empire to suspect that the Terraists were not yet done and had something to do with unrest in the FPA (or somesuch - can't remember the context off-hand), but did not care to share this with anyone. And then the Narrator went on to say that this was because Oberstein did not trust the other admirals. He did not think very highly of any of them, but it must be added that he did not think very highly of himself either. You could read this as "he's afraid of the other admirals and also lacks confidence, but is not malicious", but IMHO that is not exactly what the Narrator was trying to convey.
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Aug 19, 2013 16:18
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I started watching the Gaiden episodes. Started with the Reinhard stuff and the animation in the first one is great, but damnit does the new CGI animation look like garbage on the second one. I'm enjoying the story, though.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:37
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Man, gently caress Commodore Fork. I'm on episode 14 and I hope he dies the death he's so painfully obviously set up for.  Edit: Also I love how casually it is thrown in, at least in the early episodes, how much of an alcoholic Yang is. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Aug 25, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 21:09
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nutranurse posted:Man, gently caress Commodore Fork. I'm on episode 14 and I hope he dies the death he's so painfully obviously set up for. The whole business with commodore Fork annoyed me in that he casually mouths off to and belittles an admiral and no one ever called him on it. He should've been busted off to asteroid monitoring on the rear end end of nowhere for his attitude.
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Aug 25, 2013 23:07
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Welp. Episode 40 has cemented the fact that Rudolf von Goldenbaum is basically Space-Hitler.
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Aug 26, 2013 17:11
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I dont really like anime, and I dont really like TV shows. That said, I've watched the two movies and I'm four episodes in, this is the greatest. I'm so stoked that I have this to watch for the next couple of months. Are there any cool stories or info about the creators of this show and what they've done, and what the process this show went through was? What's it's inspiration in Japanese media? Also drat... is this the oldest thread on the forums? Is it safe for me to read through it? Out of all the shows I really dont want to be spoilered on this one
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Sep 4, 2013 00:22
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WYA posted:What's it's inspiration in Japanese media? This thread is definitely among the oldest still not in archives and has survived numerous pushes for a new OP. I haven't posted in here since 2010, but the thread used to be very solid about keeping spoilers behind black bars due to the continuous influx of LOGH virgins. Not sure if such things are still in fashion.
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Sep 4, 2013 01:14
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WYA posted:I dont really like anime, and I dont really like TV shows. That said, I've watched the two movies and I'm four episodes in, this is the greatest. I'm so stoked that I have this to watch for the next couple of months. Are there any cool stories or info about the creators of this show and what they've done, and what the process this show went through was? What's it's inspiration in Japanese media? For the record, the oldest thread is from 2002 so it's not that close. I wouldn't read through a thread for a long since completed show if I'm trying to not be spoiled, but spoiler tags did exist way back then, so if you really want to, go for it. This thread gets bumped up every now and then with someone either newly starting or just finishing for the first time, so it's kind of a minefield of spoilers.
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Sep 4, 2013 05:03
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When the thread first started only about half the show was subbed too so, I mean, it's possible you wont be cluster hosed with it but there are some HUGE moments that you don't wanna gently caress yourself up over. It's not like an airing show thread where it moves along with the broadcast; since this is an ova that started in what the gently caress 198x, I wouldn't risk it if you are really adverse to spoiling things. We try but it's an ancient thread, there's certainly going to be points where major things are unspoilered just because of the flow of conversation.
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Sep 4, 2013 05:34
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Shyrka posted:The whole business with commodore Fork annoyed me in that he casually mouths off to and belittles an admiral and no one ever called him on it. He should've been busted off to asteroid monitoring on the rear end end of nowhere for his attitude. If I remember right the series implies that he's some politician's favorite (maybe Cornelia Windsor?). The FPA military has some pretty serious issues with political nepotism.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:33
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Episode 19 so far and I cant decide if Yang > Lohenngram.
MOVIE MAJICK fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 20:05
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WYA posted:Episode 19 so far and I cant decide if Yang > Lohenngram. I just finished the first season and I never hesitated in choosing Yang. Although it seems like the series doesn't want to advocate for one side being better than the other, I found the Alliance characters to be easier to identify with.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:32
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Cloks posted:I just finished the first season and I never hesitated in choosing Yang. Although it seems like the series doesn't want to advocate for one side being better than the other, I found the Alliance characters to be easier to identify with. What episode is the end of the first season? I think you're right that he's easier to identify with, probably because the political structure of the Alliance is one we are used to. Also, is it just me, or does the storyline of Lohengramm seem similar to Augustus (the first roman emperor)? This show is going right up there with the Wire, Deadwood and Twin Peaks for me. Never thought I'd say that about an anime...
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Sep 5, 2013 20:37
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The first season ends with episode 26. I definitely agree with your ranking of it, it's a shame that it's not as well known. Are there any other anime that are similar in quality or scope? I feel like watching this has really spoiled me in regards to most anime being low quality television.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:41
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Lohengramm is basically Alexander the Great, Julius and Augustus Caesar, Napoleon, Fredrick the Great, etc rolled into one - I don't think there's any one historical figure he's based on, but there's been a few "young conquerors" that have had a roughly similar trajectory and Reinhard fits the mold pretty well.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:43
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Pornographic Memory posted:Lohengramm is basically Alexander the Great, Julius and Augustus Caesar, Napoleon, Fredrick the Great, etc rolled into one - I don't think there's any one historical figure he's based on, but there's been a few "young conquerors" that have had a roughly similar trajectory and Reinhard fits the mold pretty well. His whole plan with the nobles reminds me a lot of Augustus, also his cold, almost sociopathic demeanor.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:51
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Cloks posted:Are there any other anime that are similar in quality or scope? I feel like watching this has really spoiled me in regards to most anime being low quality television.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:30
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Chas McGill posted:No, nothing comes close. Sorry, but anime is ruined after you watch this. Everything I've watched since seems trifling in comparison. I actually think Turn A Gundam is a little bit better. But just a little bit.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:45
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Cloks posted:Are there any other anime that are similar in quality or scope? I feel like watching this has really spoiled me in regards to most anime being low quality television. If you mean something with exactly the same sci-fi/military/politics genre mix, audio/visual qualities, storytelling and sheer length...then the answer is no. There are good shows, including others that are excellent within their respective genres (like, say, Time of Eve with matters of robotics and such), but nothing is exactly comparable. I do think fans of Legend of the Galactic Heroes might at least want to try the new Space Battleship Yamato 2199 series, if they wish to see another space opera in a military setting. There are certain differences and it's still not equivalent to LOGH, but one could easily argue that Galactic Heroes probably wouldn't exist without the influence and popularity of the original Yamato/StarBlazers back in the day (1974). In fact, they even shared the same director (the late Noboru Ishiguro). If you want a more detailed or varied response, I'd suggest asking in the recommendations thread. wielder fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 22:49
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WYA posted:His whole plan with the nobles reminds me a lot of Augustus, also his cold, almost sociopathic demeanor. And like Augustus he has a best bro who is amazing at everything. Agrippa 
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Sep 5, 2013 23:47
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WYA posted:Episode 19 so far and I cant decide if Yang > Lohenngram. I would say that Yang and his cabinet are a lot more interesting because of how down to Earth they are for being, well, Galactic Heroes. Lohengram's ranks are made of characters who start out as larger than life and only get bigger from there.
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Sep 6, 2013 02:19
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TK-31 posted:I would say that Yang and his cabinet are a lot more interesting because of how down to Earth they are for being, well, Galactic Heroes. Lohengram's ranks are made of characters who start out as larger than life and only get bigger from there. Thats true... although it doesn't have exactly the amount of moral conflict that Lohengram's storyline does for where I'm at like him debating whether to let the nobles nuke the planet. Yang is more or less morally straightforward because he doesn't have any sort of ambition within the war besides to stop it. In Japanese are titles said at the end of names usually? MOVIE MAJICK fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 02:49
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Cloks posted:I just finished the first season and I never hesitated in choosing Yang. Although it seems like the series doesn't want to advocate for one side being better than the other, I found the Alliance characters to be easier to identify with. The characters on both sides of the conflict are quite human and I don't think one side is necessarily better than the other but the series does make a big point about how the shittiest democracy beats the ultimate dictatorship.
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Sep 6, 2013 03:14
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Kegslayer posted:the series does make a big point about how the shittiest democracy beats the ultimate dictatorship. I didn't get that from it at all. I saw the series as saying that dictatorships are more prone to extremes: with Reinhard at the wheel, things get monumentally better and are arguably better than in the decaying FPA, BUT that depends on a single individual and you don't always get a Reinhard; the FPA, even as dysfunctional as it became, was still miles better than the Goldenbaum dynasty. It's been a while since I've watched this, but I seem to recall Yang specifically going over this issue; how one of the reasons he supported democracy unequivocally because while it could get lovely, it wouldn't get as lovely as a dictatorship could get (part of why he refused to take over and institute a dictatorship, even temporarily). That's obviously a simplification, but I recall that being a point.
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Sep 6, 2013 03:56
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Rrright. You just agreed with him. Read it again, baby.
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Sep 6, 2013 06:02
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DamnGlitch posted:Rrright. You just agreed with him. I don't think that my reading comprehension is that bad, but I wouldn't mind being corrected. In what way does the worst democracy beat the ultimate (as in best ruler overall, not most dictatorial) dictatorship aside from the metric of Zero_Tactility fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 06:19
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Zero_Tactility posted:I don't think that my reading comprehension is that bad, but I wouldn't mind being corrected. In what way does the worst democracy beat the ultimate (as in best ruler overall, not most dictatorial) dictatorship aside from the metric of I'll be careful of spoilers but the whole series seems to address the question of what the best system of government is and whether the worst democracy is better than the best dictatorship so talking about the themes seem to be okay. Yang strongly believes in democracy despite being a more than capable benevolent dictator. He admits that he only has these views because he was brought up with them and if he had been born in the Empire then he would have volunteered to serve Reinhard. His main argument is essentially that people have a right to gently caress themselves up and the responsibility of any failings of a democracy should lie with the people. In a dictatorship, people won't take responsibility but instead blame everything on the dictator. His second point is that people like Reinhard are exceptionally rare both in talent and in their concern for his subjects. While Reinhard has the most efficient and just form of government, there's no guarantee that his successor will be the same. The FPA is all sorts of hosed up. It's rulers are useless and self serving and the general voting public punish and hinder Yang more than they help him but it's not all bad. There are people there like Jessica and the various government bureaucrats/workers that do believe in democracy and seek to better society despite their leaders and their peers being terrible people. The series seems to conclude that a constitutional monarchy is the best compromise with a dictator/leader having limited powers and elections/appointments held by the public but a democracy is still infinitely preferable to a dictatorship. I love the series and it's kind of amazing and also disappointing at how applicable and relevant the story is now despite it being written in the 80s.
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Sep 6, 2013 08:20
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^^^ I have a post somewhere in this thread from like March 2010 where I was commenting on the FPA bitching about having to raise taxes because they can't cover all these foreign wars, while CNN was reporting on the exact same thing with the USA Zero_Tactility posted:I don't think that my reading comprehension is that bad, but I wouldn't mind being corrected. In what way does the worst democracy beat the ultimate (as in best ruler overall, not most dictatorial) dictatorship aside from the metric of What they're saying is the dude said that a crap democracy was still better than a good dictatorship, then you replied with an explanation from the show of how a crap democracy was still better than a good dictatorship. Everyone is in agreement all the time yaaay. So I've been working on a way to share just LoGH stuff from my PlexApp server, and I think I've got it down properly now. I still don't know if I can use a dummy account that just has LoGH access and just hand that out to multiple people, or if I will still need to add individual accounts to my main server and just selectively share the LoGH content. But if anyone wants to be a guinea pig over the weekend let me know and we'll swap emails or something and try it out.
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Sep 6, 2013 08:36
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Zero_Tactility posted:I don't think that my reading comprehension is that bad, but I wouldn't mind being corrected. In what way does the worst democracy beat the ultimate (as in best ruler overall, not most dictatorial) dictatorship aside from the metric of A good Dictatorship looks better then a bad democracy, but it will turn to poo poo very quickly.
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Sep 6, 2013 11:51
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tonberrytoby posted:Yes that is the main argument made in the show and in the thread. This is why the show is so great. Yang makes his argument and Reinhard calls him out on his bullshit. His dictatorship is much more preferable to the government of the FPA. It's an efficient meritocracy that will benefit and serve its citizens much better than the FPA ever could. Yang has a point in principle about fearing for the unknown future but Reinhard is able to make a real positive change to the people right there and then.
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Sep 6, 2013 12:20
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Kegslayer posted:This is why the show is so great. Yang makes his argument and Reinhard calls him out on his bullshit. His dictatorship is much more preferable to the government of the FPA. It's an efficient meritocracy that will benefit and serve its citizens much better than the FPA ever could. Yang has a point in principle about fearing for the unknown future but Reinhard is able to make a real positive change to the people right there and then. And then Yang could have rebutted with "But also I don't get to let farmers get nuked for political convenience."
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Sep 6, 2013 14:30
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