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Vengarr posted:This seems appropriate:
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Sep 9, 2013 17:06
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Back when Eren was "dead," Mikasa also realizes that she selfishly spurred the others into battle, then gave up and tried to commit suicide herself. She actually decides to stop acting so immaturely before she learns that Eren is alive. She also hesitates to kill Bertholt and Reiner before they transform. This literally saved their lives and allowed the last six or so chapters to happen. People have a real blind spot when it comes to Mikasa, and I really do suspect that it is because the she is the most talented character and yet had no penis. Mostly because the way people talk about her supposed faults as a character strongly reminds me of how people complain about talented women in Hollywood always taking similar roles, but fail to notice that George Clooney has literally stated in interviews that all his characters share the same basic personality traits (aging successful men confronting the fact that they are past their prime).
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Sep 9, 2013 20:38
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Soulcleaver posted:Wikipedia says 27 is the first chapter of book 7. Hopefully the English and original numbers line up. Thanks, if anyone is curious it is actually Chapter 28 i am guessing is going to be the first chapter of english book 7. The manga has also pointed out how terrible i am with remembering certain characters. - The dude with grey hair from the anime is Jean, and not Reiner. - Reiner was also not the one who was eaten in trost, that was thomas, and not reiner My memory is really terrible.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:52
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UberJumper posted:Thanks, if anyone is curious it is actually Chapter 28 i am guessing is going to be the first chapter of english book 7. Ive spent half of the manga thinking that Reiner and Jean were the same guy
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Sep 9, 2013 22:28
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Squidster posted:Some cool Attack on Metal Gear fanart from here. AnonSpore posted:I thought it was just amusing until I noticed one of the dogs was sweating. I was just about to comment on how great that is before I thankfully noticed these were posted in the anime thread.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:32
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It's not really a spoiler to say that, is it? Bert sweats like hell even in his human form, and the art doesn't suggest that Bert and Ernie are the colossal and armored titans at all. Unless you mean "because they're Sniper Annie's wolves" but I think that's reaching a bit.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:34
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Thankfully, it's pretty obvious in the anime that Annie, Reiner, and Bert are friends. They're always shown together. It's not particularly incriminating.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:43
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Yeah, hopefully it's nothing. That's just the first time I had to do a double take, I was all ready to post before I was like "whoooah, hold on this isn't the manga thread, better not say anything?" Of course, they're probably all spoiled about Reiner already anyway...
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Sep 9, 2013 23:17
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Mighty Dicktron posted:Thankfully, it's pretty obvious in the anime that Annie, Reiner, and Bert are friends. They're always shown together. It's not particularly incriminating. Who is Bert? Aside from that, i finally managed to read upto chapter 37. And wow, its good. A small question, did Ymir appear earlier in the manga? I don't remember him, but he has apparently been there since the beginning? Regarding the human titans With annie turning out to be the female titan, i am 99% sure that the Armoured titan is going to be Jean (mostly due to the identical hair cut/colour). For the really tall titan, i am guessing its going to be Pixis (since he seemed pretty gung-ho on not having Eren killed, and seems to show up not long after the trost gate is broken down).
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Sep 9, 2013 23:44
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UberJumper posted:Who is Bert? I could tell you the answers to that but instead my advice would be to exit the thread immediately before you get a faceful of thick gooey spoiler phlim phlam and just read up to present before coming back.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:46
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UberJumper posted:Who is Bert? You probably don't want to be in this thread if you're not up to date on the manga. Bert is the black haired guy who hangs around with Reiner and is always sweating. Ymir is a woman.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:46
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beaten 
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Sep 9, 2013 23:46
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AnonSpore posted:I could tell you the answers to that but instead my advice would be to exit the thread immediately before you get a faceful of thick gooey spoiler phlim phlam and just read up to present before coming back. Alright i shall do that and come back. ActionZero posted:You probably don't want to be in this thread if you're not up to date on the manga. I don't remember any that person at all, i thought Jean was the one always hanging around Reiner  , and i had no idea Ymir was a woman. Alright i am running away now.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:51
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Hodgepodge posted:Back when Eren was "dead," Mikasa also realizes that she selfishly spurred the others into battle, then gave up and tried to commit suicide herself. She actually decides to stop acting so immaturely before she learns that Eren is alive. Right after giving in to death she also realized that she should fight and live whether or not Eren was there. Then, her lesson learned, the universe delivered the Rage Titan to smite her enemies. Well, I like to pretend that Mikasa's self actualization was at least a contributing factor. The vast majority of the cause being Eren's reality warping, ahabian(melvillian?) anger, of course.
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Sep 10, 2013 00:01
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Hodgepodge posted:People have a real blind spot when it comes to Mikasa, and I really do suspect that it is because the she is the most talented character and yet had no penis. Mostly because the way people talk about her supposed faults as a character strongly reminds me of how people complain about talented women in Hollywood always taking similar roles, but fail to notice that George Clooney has literally stated in interviews that all his characters share the same basic personality traits (aging successful men confronting the fact that they are past their prime). Mikasa is a terrible character. I dig that she's a badass and not a damsel in distress, but she's insanely flat. Literally everything she does in the series is for Eren or based on him, and when he was absent from her life for a few moments she pretty much threw in the towel in a nihilistic fit. She has NO real agency, everything is about and for Eren. That pretty much defines a weak female character. On the flip side, I think Eren is a pretty flat and and terrible too. Armin is the only person in the main three that's actually a character. That said the rest of the supporting cast is pretty fantastic, Annie and Ymir in particular.
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Sep 10, 2013 00:06
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roobots posted:Mikasa is a terrible character. I dig that she's a badass and not a damsel in distress, but she's insanely flat. Literally everything she does in the series is for Eren or based on him, and when he was absent from her life for a few moments she pretty much threw in the towel in a nihilistic fit. She has NO real agency, everything is about and for Eren. That pretty much defines a weak female character. Had a disturbing thought watching the Anime: does anyone think there is going to be a happy ending for those two? I mean can you imagine Eren and Mikasa settling down and having a family (not necessarily with each other) after the war is over? They are both ruthless killing machines. Eren has a laser-sharp focus on murdering any and all Titans, and Mikasa has a similarly narrow focus on Eren's continued survival. Shonen convention or no, I just don't see both of them making it. Once the last titan buys it, there is no reason for their story to continue.
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Sep 10, 2013 00:36
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ArchangeI posted:Shonen convention or no, I just don't see both of them making it. Once the last titan buys it, there is no reason for their story to continue. Who says they'll even manage that? Kill 'em all, I say. 
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Sep 10, 2013 00:43
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ArchangeI posted:Shonen convention or no, I just don't see both of them making it. Once the last titan buys it, there is no reason for their story to continue. If Isayama does with them what I think follows with Eren, either he will lose something and self destruct by turning into a literal rage monster or all the titans as enemies will be stopped without Eren having contributed in a meaningful way. Having lost most of what he is with no catharsis, then he will self destruct in some other way. I don't really know what either would do to Mikasa. Would we get a Titan take on the "We're the only ones who wants to save our friend corrupted by whatever" plot line? To end on a positive note, the last thing that would happen is the main three leaving to go see the outside world together, but that sounds so boring.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:05
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^^^ Most of the Scouting Legion is motivated by a desire for freedom, especially Eren and Armin. It would be really weird if they survived and didn't want to explore. They'll have grown into leadership positions, of course, but within an organization with the same ultimate ambition as their own. I doubt there will be a cliche ending where the three go off on their own; the Scouting Legion as a whole will probably repurpose as surveyors and explorers, and they'll be working within that context. Assuming there are enough people left alive of course.roobots posted:Mikasa is a terrible character. I dig that she's a badass and not a damsel in distress, but she's insanely flat. Literally everything she does in the series is for Eren or based on him, and when he was absent from her life for a few moments she pretty much threw in the towel in a nihilistic fit. She has NO real agency, everything is about and for Eren. That pretty much defines a weak female character. Um, this does little but validate my suspicions. I have no idea why you'd look at a post full of evidence and then assert a bunch of opposite points without any. But whatever your motives, it makes for a lovely post that merely unnecessarily restates the widespread opinion that my post was reacting to with no further contribution. It almost reads like you're trying to will the evidence of character growth on her part out of existence by chanting "flat character flat character" in response. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 03:09
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I wonder about Eren's fate myself post-series resolution. I don't see Eren going homicidal rage at the Titan threat being resolved in a way that doesn't involve killing 'em all, seeing as how the whole basis for his rage is that the Titans kill everybody. If the Titans aren't trying to kill everybody anymore, why would he go rage monster? A need for catharsis I can see, but I have a feeling that may come in the form of the People In Charge sitting within the innermost walls. I would be totally happy with a "Eren and friends travel the world" ending, it'd be a nice bookend. Bonus points if Eren gets to keep his Titan form and just has buddies sitting on his shoulders while he saunters around dangerous terrain or something. Also, for no reason other than to throw out another random hypothetical: I've always sort of fancied the idea of Eren getting himself stuck, lucid, in Titan form. How is anyone's wager, but I'll go with "tried doing that skin hardening thing and accidentally sealed himself in" since this is all imaginary anyway. Sort of like Ymir's whole "mindless titan days", but without the mindless? I don't know, haha. It would certainly make for an odd conflict, or at least a very frustrated Eren.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:02
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I expect either he gets some new character development to tone him down or he is forced to sacrifice himself to kill all titans. This will also open up Mikasa and let her do whatever she wants and Armin can be the new world leader.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:09
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His rage at the Titans comes from them taking humanity's freedom, as well as actual lives. The freedom part came first, before they actually broke through. If he learns that humans are behind it all, he will hate them. If the Titans and anyone who used them to confine humanity are removed, he will want to make use of the freedom that gives him and see the world.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:16
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The chances of Eren, Mikasa and Armin all surviving to the end of the story are slim at best. Eren constantly places himself in mortal danger (even more than the norm for a Recon Squad trooper) due to his Titanicidal rage, Mikasa constantly places herself in danger to pull Eren out of the fire, and Armin is slowly but steadily adopting Pixis and Ervin's approach of "For the sake of humanity, everyone (including your closest friends) is expendable".
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Sep 10, 2013 04:26
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Where do you think Annie was actually trying to take Eren? She didn't seem to show any interest in going back to her hometown before. For all we know, she could have been trying to take him back to Shiganshina.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:59
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JosephWongKS posted:The chances of Eren, Mikasa and Armin all surviving to the end of the story are slim at best. Eren constantly places himself in mortal danger (even more than the norm for a Recon Squad trooper) due to his Titanicidal rage, Mikasa constantly places herself in danger to pull Eren out of the fire, and Armin is slowly but steadily adopting Pixis and Ervin's approach of "For the sake of humanity, everyone (including your closest friends) is expendable". I don't get why Eren gets poo poo on so much. The dumbest thing he's done is join the scouting legion. Other than that, he's followed orders, carried out THE ONLY successful mission against the titans, and fought like mad when the chips are down. If it weren't for his obsession with killing titans, he'd probably go mindless like Ymir. He didn't get any training like the other titans surely did.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:12
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Well he did kill Thomas, Mina, Milius, and Nack (and himself) early on.  And on characters that might make it, I've long believed that Jean will last to the end of the series. He's got a clear narrative arc while not heading down the dark path that Armin is, his leadership skills are invaluable considering the rest of the trainees' states (once upon a time I would've said Reiner, but welp), and he's long been the only sane guy so you sort of need him to keep perspective and everyone rlse honest. Besides, he's Isayama's favorite and surely that counts as something.  Seriously Safe posted:Where do you think Annie was actually trying to take Eren? She didn't seem to show any interest in going back to her hometown before. For all we know, she could have been trying to take him back to Shiganshina.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:26
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cooldude2.0 posted:really? he was center back of the formation and guarded until the last moment during the excursion. when he stopped up the wall he was guarded by every other human. In the instances you listed, Eren was guarded by other people at the express instructions of his superiors. When he's by himself or in a squad of peers, what does he do? At the start of the Battle of Trost, he Leeroy-Jenkinsed the Titans and got his leg chomped and got himself eaten for his efforts. When Titan-Annie destroyed Squad Levi, instead of riding back to safety (as he was instructed to do so), he turned Titan to fight her and got decapitated and eaten (again) for his efforts. When he was kidnapped by Bert and Ernie, he tried to attack them even though his arms had not yet regenerated. JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 06:32
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JosephWongKS posted:When Titan-Annie destroyed Squad Levi, instead of riding back to safety (as he was instructed to do so), he turned Titan to fight her and got decapitated and eaten (again) for his efforts. I don't think that Eren had much of a choice at that point but to stand and fight. Could he really have ridden to safety? I think Annie would probably have caught him even faster if he'd tried to escape.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:49
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JosephWongKS posted:In the instances you listed, Eren was guarded by other people at the express instructions of his superiors. When he's by himself or in a squad of peers, what does he do? At the start of the Battle of Trost, he Leeroy-Jenkinsed the Titans and got his leg chomped for his efforts. When Titan-Annie destroyed Squad Levi, instead of riding back to safety (as he was instructed to do so), he turned Titan to fight her and got decapitated and eaten (again) for his efforts. When he was kidnapped by Bert and Ernie, he tried to attack them even though his arms had not yet regenerated. Eren is defined by his anger. His rage at humanity's situation, at the loss of his comrades. That's the reason he's so irrational. It's symbolic of the humanity he embodies. What's more human than emotion? Than irrationality? Sure we can't agree with his actions on a logical level, but we can agree on an emotional level. All of his actions have been based in anger at the enormous loss of life at the hands of the titans. Ironically he's probably the most human of the cast.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:59
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Van Dine posted:I don't think that Eren had much of a choice at that point but to stand and fight. Could he really have ridden to safety? I think Annie would probably have caught him even faster if he'd tried to escape. Not to mention that the only reason Levi and Mikasa showed up was because of Eren's roar. Dude would have been proper hosed if he hadn't transformed.
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Sep 10, 2013 07:14
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The artist posted on his blog about how he had to redraw Armin's good idea face for some reason. For some reason.
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Sep 10, 2013 07:51
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Devour or Fire posted:The artist posted on his blog about how he had to redraw Armin's good idea face for some reason. Holy loving poo poo, Armin.  I swear to god I take back everything I ever said about him looking cute, that face is going to haunt me in my restless dreams.
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Sep 10, 2013 10:24
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roobots posted:Mikasa is a terrible character. I dig that she's a badass and not a damsel in distress, but she's insanely flat. Literally everything she does in the series is for Eren or based on him, and when he was absent from her life for a few moments she pretty much threw in the towel in a nihilistic fit. She has NO real agency, everything is about and for Eren. That pretty much defines a weak female character. I mean, they are kind of functionally identical at this point, but I think she has a lot more room to grow than if she were just obsessed with Eren and Eren alone.
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Sep 10, 2013 11:49
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ArchangeI posted:Had a disturbing thought watching the Anime: does anyone think there is going to be a happy ending for those two? I mean can you imagine Eren and Mikasa settling down and having a family (not necessarily with each other) after the war is over? They are both ruthless killing machines. Eren has a laser-sharp focus on murdering any and all Titans, and Mikasa has a similarly narrow focus on Eren's continued survival. Shonen convention or no, I just don't see both of them making it. Once the last titan buys it, there is no reason for their story to continue.
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Sep 10, 2013 13:15
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Armin grows up to be the new leader of the survey/recon corps.
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Sep 10, 2013 13:18
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Hodgepodge posted:Um, this does little but validate my suspicions. I have no idea why you'd look at a post full of evidence and then assert a bunch of opposite points without any. But whatever your motives, it makes for a lovely post that merely unnecessarily restates the widespread opinion that my post was reacting to with no further contribution. I really can't think of any examples of Mikasa acting in her own interests instead of acting on behalf of Eren. Her mother was brutally murdered, she's the last of her kind and yet her entire motivation seems focused on Eren and protecting him. I get that he's the only family she has left, but it still bugs me that her actions never seem to be for her, but for Eren. If they are for her or are about her family, I just think the series has a done a poor job of showing that. Or it's just going to be a really really slow burn. And don't get me wrong, this isn't a Mikasa issue. It's an SnK issue and to a greater extent, a shounen manga issue. Characters depth gets back seated for "Oh poo poo that is so cool" all the time.
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Sep 10, 2013 13:59
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I think it depends on your perspective. Is she acting on Eren's behalf? Or is she acting on her behalf, selfishly (unconsciously, but still) using Eren as her own anchor? I always saw it as closer to the latter - that she fights for the ideal that Eren represents in her life - hence why, when she thought he died at Trost, she broke out of her funk pretty drat quickly, reorienting herself around a new anchor based on a particular ideal of Eren's. That's not to say Eren isn't important to her personally as well, but I saw Mikasa's characterization so far as primarily an unhealthy zeal for an ideal, which - at least in my opinion, gives far more depth than just an unhealthy zeal for Eren as a person.
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Sep 10, 2013 14:34
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roobots posted:I really can't think of any examples of Mikasa acting in her own interests instead of acting on behalf of Eren. Her mother was brutally murdered, she's the last of her kind and yet her entire motivation seems focused on Eren and protecting him. I get that he's the only family she has left, but it still bugs me that her actions never seem to be for her, but for Eren. If they are for her or are about her family, I just think the series has a done a poor job of showing that. Or it's just going to be a really really slow burn. I don't know man, I kinda like Mikasa because despite her cool-headed nature she'll still act irrationally for her family. I mean I'll admit at first I was annoyed that she had little to no personality, but it slowly dawned on me that Eren was her remaining shred of humanity. So of course she would fight tooth and nail for that. So in that light it's more like she's doing it for her sake rather than Eren's. Although its really more of a symbiotic relationship when you think about it. Eren acts as Mikasa's rock while Mikasa is constantly pulling Eren out of the fire.
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Sep 10, 2013 14:39
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^^ (edit) With regards to that, I'd imagine that it might seem odd to a Japanese reader if a character were expected to grow as "an individual" rather than within a network of symbiotic social relationships. Even within the original three, both depend on Armin as well. The theme so far had definitely been finding their place within the larger community of the Scouting Legion. --- All of this misses that when she thought that Eren was dead, she realized that there were other things in her life to live for, primarily her responsibility to other members of the Scouting Legion. Even when Eren is taken later, her despair is no longer hers alone, and that's what is pointed out to her and the others- Eren had become the Legion's #1 priority, so they're going after him. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 17:49
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Mary Annette posted:This series is pretty good on subverting stereotypes, but Armin hasn't completely shed his 'bookish, effeminate sidekick' baggage yet. Add me to the list of "People Eating Their Words About Armin".  Devour or Fire posted:The artist posted on his blog about how he had to redraw Armin's good idea face for some reason. The captions read (to my half-assed Japanese), top to bottom: "This is the published, just-right 'Sicko Armin' face" "This is the pre-revision, over-the-top 'Sicko Armin' face" "What am I gonna do with this 'Sicko Armin' face?"
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Sep 10, 2013 17:53
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