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Simkin posted:But this one actually makes the new paint scheme look pretty decent. Maybe I'm just drawn to shiny things. It looks like a can of Coors light, is.. is that intentional?
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Sep 11, 2013 00:01
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SybilVimes posted:It looks like a can of Coors light, is.. is that intentional? Them rockies.. 
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Sep 11, 2013 00:03
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Shouldn't it be molson's?
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Sep 11, 2013 00:04
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hobbesmaster posted:Shouldn't it be molson's?  Coors IS Molsons (but afaik - it's been a long long time since I drank any beer, let alone North American) Molson's cans were never bare aluminium like Coors
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Sep 11, 2013 00:07
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Jonny Nox posted:Air Canada Express (I really love Air Canada's blue) I just got home from work and am tired, but I suddenly realized Air Canada Blue is WW2 Luftwaffe Light Blue. 
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Sep 11, 2013 00:57
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Jonny Nox posted:So Westjet's regional Livery is pretty terrible compared to it's competition: yeah, they look mis-proportioned in comparison to the 200's.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:27
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FullMetalJacket posted:yeah, they look mis-proportioned in comparison to the 200's. I'm guessing it's pretty much the last stretch the wings can handle. I'm only going by the "if it looks right it'll fly right" principle here though
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Sep 11, 2013 02:34
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Canadian Airlines "Proud Wings" livery was the best we've ever seen from a Canadian carrier. Perhaps WestJet will give us a new livery when they get some widebodies?
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Sep 11, 2013 03:36
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Jonny Nox posted:So Westjet's regional Livery is pretty terrible compared to it's competition: I feel like it violates trade descriptions laws to see a company called WestJet flying turboprops.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:50
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Jonny Nox posted:I'm guessing it's pretty much the last stretch the wings can handle. I'm only going by the "if it looks right it'll fly right" principle here though Not quite; Bombardier is thinking of building a 90-seat variant of the Q400...emphasis on thinking about it. It is possible from a technical standpoint, but will anyone buy it? They're not so sure. As an aside, from a pilot's perspective, flying a Q400 after an earlier model Dash is like dying and going to heaven, they're that much better, and it's not like the early models (-100 to Q300) are bad aircraft in any way. Just to give some perspective; each engine on the Q400 puts out more power than both engines on the 50-seat Q300, to say nothing of the smaller -100. Bugsmasher posted:Canadian Airlines "Proud Wings" livery was the best we've ever seen from a Canadian carrier. Yes, that Canadian logo was incredible; shame it didn't last long. As for your other point, watch this space, circa 2020 
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Sep 11, 2013 04:03
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Great moments in ugly livery: People Express in the 80s. It looked bad enough on a 727 but on a 747... I can remember a few guys from the era referring to the paint job as the "bloody hemorrhoid". 
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Sep 11, 2013 04:38
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benito posted:Great moments in ugly livery: People Express in the 80s. It looked bad enough on a 727 but on a 747... I can remember a few guys from the era referring to the paint job as the "bloody hemorrhoid". Holy poo poo that vertical stab. 
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Sep 11, 2013 04:54
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benito posted:Great moments in ugly livery: People Express in the 80s. It looked bad enough on a 727 but on a 747... I can remember a few guys from the era referring to the paint job as the "bloody hemorrhoid". I flew People's from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh in the summer of '84 for $33.50 each way. They collected the airfare after you boarded. It was great.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:11
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I like to imagine the folks in the BA to the stage* right were looking out the window and thinking "How bloody awful!"
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Sep 11, 2013 05:18
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Bugsmasher posted:Canadian Airlines "Proud Wings" livery was the best we've ever seen from a Canadian carrier. Westjet will never order widebodies, they don't want to compete with the big dog in Montreal who gets all the sweet, sweet, government favouritism. There is also a myth in their culture that the mostly white livery saves money. Then again, they said I was too smart to work there- so I may be a little bias against them.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:20
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Powercube posted:Westjet will never order widebodies, they don't want to compete with the big dog in Montreal who gets all the sweet, sweet, government favouritism. Could be talking about fuel savings because of less weight although a unpainted aluminum body would be more like it.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:26
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Bugsmasher posted:Canadian Airlines "Proud Wings" livery was the best we've ever seen from a Canadian carrier. Is that the goose? Because yeah, the goose was the best livery in Canada, and one of the top ones ever, imo.  Oh and to the guy who said he loved the AC blue paint, that's honestly the first time I've heard anyone say that. Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 05:26
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Powercube posted:Westjet will never order widebodies, they don't want to compete with the big dog in Montreal who gets all the sweet, sweet, government favouritism. I think the advantage of a white livery is more if you plan on changing it a lot, though there might be some minor savings in weight and/or heating and cooling. ...though, if weight is an issue, why hold back? 
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Sep 11, 2013 05:30
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StandardVC10 posted:I think the advantage of a white livery is more if you plan on changing it a lot, though there might be some minor savings in weight and/or heating and cooling. Funny thing about the Silver Bullets, I have a mate who used to be a CX 744 jockey before moving over to the 77W. He swears that they actually had worse fuel burn due to the rivets being more exposed than their sealed and painted brethren. The way AA used to do it saved weight as they came polished and sanded straight out of Renton or Long Beach. Apparently, when you strip the paint the way CX and AC did results in minimal savings.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:37
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Jonny Nox posted:
I'm going to say that this is my favorite livery of the lot.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:42
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Ardeem posted:I'm going to say that this is my favorite livery of the lot. It looks even hotter on a BAE-146. Every time I go up to CYEG it's always on the ramp, but I can never get a good photo.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:56
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Powercube posted:The way AA used to do it saved weight as they came polished and sanded straight out of Renton or Long Beach. Apparently, when you strip the paint the way CX and AC did results in minimal savings. Can you elaborate on this?
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Sep 11, 2013 07:12
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Simkin posted:Also, I am apparently genetically coded to stare at any and all Beavers, regardless of livery or configuration... It's that godamned Y chromosome...
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Sep 11, 2013 13:47
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Captain Postal posted:Can you elaborate on this? The "polished and sanded" part leads me to believe that the stock aluminum airframe (although lighter) was rough enough, and the rivets protruded enough as to add noticeable drag that they could calculate the fuel usage as being similar to a smoother (and heavier) painted airframe. I guess that AA had their aircraft polished so the bare aluminum was smooth like a painted surface and the rivets were sanded to cut down on air resistance. Less weight and less resistance would equal better fuel economy.
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Sep 11, 2013 14:29
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drgitlin posted:I feel like it violates trade descriptions laws to see a company called WestJet flying turboprops. Turboprops are jet engines by some definitions.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:26
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hobbesmaster posted:Turboprops are jet engines by some definitions. Indeed, no less a jet than a turbofan* is, just has a bigger, more obvious, fan. * turbofans really aren't jets, sorry, if you say 'we'll fly there by jet' to me, you'd better damned well be sure there is a 707/737-200ADV waiting 
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Sep 11, 2013 16:56
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hobbesmaster posted:Turboprops are jet engines by some definitions. turbine engines connected to a prop via a gearbox. they have a lot of similarity to a high bypass turbofan minus the means of output.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:58
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Blistex posted:The "polished and sanded" part leads me to believe that the stock aluminum airframe (although lighter) was rough enough, and the rivets protruded enough as to add noticeable drag that they could calculate the fuel usage as being similar to a smoother (and heavier) painted airframe. Bare metal aircraft aren't sanded, they're simply polished. There is a thin layer of pure aluminum (Alcoa and just about everyone else calls it ALCLAD) over the aluminum alloy skin, which, when properly maintained, protects the aluminum alloy underneath. Bare aluminum structures must be kept well polished, and improper polishing can damage the protective properties of ALCLAD, but it does save weight, and holy gently caress is it better looking than American's new scheme...  
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Sep 11, 2013 17:00
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MrYenko posted:Bare metal aircraft aren't sanded, they're simply polished. There is a thin layer of pure aluminum (Alcoa and just about everyone else calls it ALCLAD) over the aluminum alloy skin, which, when properly maintained, protects the aluminum alloy underneath. Bare aluminum structures must be kept well polished, and improper polishing can damage the protective properties of ALCLAD, but it does save weight, and holy gently caress is it better looking than American's new scheme... Awesome, this is why I have to stop listening to pilots on matters of aircraft production. The new AA scheme only looks good on the 77W, everything else is just an abomination.
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Sep 11, 2013 17:27
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FullMetalJacket posted:turbine engines connected to a prop via a gearbox. they have a lot of similarity to a high bypass turbofan minus the means of output. Sometimes they blur the lines even further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan
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Sep 11, 2013 18:48
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NightGyr posted:Sometimes they blur the lines even further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan When I was younger, somebody tried to explain unducted fans to me and I was all "But, converting fuel into noise is a loss of energy, how do you get *MORE* efficiency out of it?" 
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Sep 11, 2013 18:56
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NightGyr posted:Sometimes they blur the lines even further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan The MD-94X would have been awesome.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:10
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Powercube posted:Westjet will never order widebodies, It was also said they'd never order turboprops, but here we are.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:20
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Powercube posted:Westjet will never order widebodies, they don't want to compete with the big dog in Montreal who gets all the sweet, sweet, government favouritism. Never is a pretty strong word. If you asked anyone in Westjet's senior management in 2002 the question "Are you guys going to expand your fleet beyond 737s?" The answer was pretty much gently caress no (especially if you asked one of the co-founders in particular), and yet here we are today, with a turboprop regional airline and wet-leased 757s. If they are going to order wide bodies, it will be after Encore is well-established, the 737 fleet renewal is mostly complete and a couple other things go down to plan. Ten years from now is kind of the absolute earliest they would be in a position to do so and even then, it would be a small order. Speaking of that co-founder, I asked him once about the Westjet livery at about the same time. The all-white fuselage was chosen because it was simple and clean-looking - I learned later that he sort of had an obsession with keeping aircraft spotless - not because it saves money at the paint shop, which it does, but not in an amount that anyone would call significant.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:50
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FullMetalJacket posted:turbine engines connected to a prop via a gearbox. they have a lot of similarity to a high bypass turbofan minus the means of output. And then there's this thing, that I just heard of the other day... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_PW1000G
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Sep 11, 2013 19:57
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SybilVimes posted:Indeed, no less a jet than a turbofan* is, just has a bigger, more obvious, fan. 737 has been turbofan since Day 1 with JT8Ds. A lot of 707s were turbofan from Boeing as well. Heck, even the -80 has been rocking turbofans longer than it ever had turbojets.
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Sep 11, 2013 20:11
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MrChips posted:Never is a pretty strong word. If you asked anyone in Westjet's senior management in 2002 the question "Are you guys going to expand your fleet beyond 737s?" The answer was pretty much gently caress no (especially if you asked one of the co-founders in particular), and yet here we are today, with a turboprop regional airline and wet-leased 757s. If they are going to order wide bodies, it will be after Encore is well-established, the 737 fleet renewal is mostly complete and a couple other things go down to plan. Ten years from now is kind of the absolute earliest they would be in a position to do so and even then, it would be a small order. Are you talking about Beddoe or Morgan? I met both quite a few times when flying out of the SE side of YYC in my training and instructing days.
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Sep 11, 2013 20:12
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MrChips posted:I'm writing up a big post about Vladimir Myashischev and the aircraft he designed...keep an eye out in the near future for what is turning out to be a pretty interesting story. Lookin' forward to this. Note on aviation spergposting: I discovered over at Dailykos (of all places) a retired B-52 pilot doing aviation posts. His stuff on obscure Soviet aircraft would be interesting to this thread: The Tu-22 Blinder, which on the basis of this article must have had the worst ergonomics of any Soviet aircraft. The Tu-128, a fighter a third larger than the F-111. Sukhoi Interceptors: the USSR's lawn darts. Dassult Mirage IV: the French model of nuclear bombers. Other random things: I have a late contender for the ugliest aircraft: Indian AF Embraer, er, something:  Other photos from Airliners.net: Just-delivered 747, still a thing of beauty.  A sight to make Vikingskull weep:   Be-200:  OSHA violation?  T-50:   Q400, Thunderhead: 
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Sep 11, 2013 20:29
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A Lufthansa 747-800 was on final at KMIA right in front of me on my way to work earlier this week. Super-sexy.
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Sep 12, 2013 00:15
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Sup Gripfans? This will probably be the 3rd time I post this image, but: Maybe they won't need to redo their banner afterall? Boeing And Saab To Propose Gripen For T-X http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_09_11_2013_p0-615489.xml Boeing wants to sell 2-seat Gripens as advanced jet trainers in the US? Seems kinda crazy, for a number of reasons. Think they are serious about this? Would having an installed base of Gripens in the US make it easier for Saab to sell some to Canada? How is reselling Gripens better than T-38-ifying an F-18? (or tooling up for a T-38NG) Is the Gripen ready for some Football?
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Sep 12, 2013 00:22
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