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Black August
Sep 28, 2003

SaucyLoggins posted:

Red Rogue is fantastic and free. http://redrogue.net/

I really wish there was more like this. It was a simple and well-done blend of gameplay and story.

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lordfrikk
Mar 11, 2010

Oh, say it ain't fuckin' so,
you stupid fuck!
I've been playing a lot of Spelunky these past few weeks and I still can't help but murder all the shopkeepers :catstare: Maybe that's why I never win, haha.

SpruceZeus
Aug 13, 2011

Red Rogue is an awesome game with an awesome soundtrack.

Action and platformer roguelikes are my favorite kinds of roguelikes. I used to play traditional ones a lot more but I'm easily distracted and kind of scatterbrained and it's hard for me to stay interested in them very long.

Danith
May 20, 2006
I've lurked here for years

blackguy32 posted:

There should be a section for action based roguelikes which I beginning to become quite fond of. The ones that I can think of off the top of my head are Delver, Baroque, and Spelunky. But I would love to hear about more of them if there are any.

Legend of Dungeon is awesome. Lots of cool spell books and hats and the lighting is really well done.

I would recommend using a controller to play it though.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

Danith posted:

Legend of Dungeon is awesome. Lots of cool spell books and hats and the lighting is really well done.

I would recommend using a controller to play it though.
I really like how this looks visually, but at the same time it seems like it'd be real hard to tell what was going on a lot of the time. Lotta lighting effects that mix together messily around the sprites walking in front of each other.

SaucyLoggins
Jan 4, 2012

Panstallions For Life

IronicDongz posted:

I really like how this looks visually, but at the same time it seems like it'd be real hard to tell what was going on a lot of the time. Lotta lighting effects that mix together messily around the sprites walking in front of each other.

At least what I've played so far it's pretty slow paced actually. I've never even remotely had an issue distinguishing anything. I've never gotten late game or played with multiple people though.

SuicideSnowman
Jul 26, 2003
What's the challenge level like in Legend of Dungeon?

I like games like Binding of Isaac because while difficult you can get better at the game the more you play. Is it anything like that or is the "skill" level dependent more on the items you get?

Ah Map
Oct 9, 2012
Never trust anyone who has learned to read Dwarf Fortress.

Ramagamma
Feb 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

lordfrikk posted:

I've been playing a lot of Spelunky these past few weeks and I still can't help but murder all the shopkeepers :catstare: Maybe that's why I never win, haha.

It's become a running joke that if I'm playing Spelunky around friends I'm instructed in an aggressive manner "not to kill the loving shopkeepers, it's just not worth it".

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007

by zen death robot
Play the console version of Spelunky and learn to be properly terrified of even upsetting the shopkeepers because traps and poo poo are still active offscreen.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
It's not just the console version now, new spelunky is on steam! :)
There was a daily challenge a bit ago where an explosive frog was set up so that it would explode no matter what in the black mail and agro the shopkeepers. Not many people made it far that challenge.

Tempora Mutantur
Feb 22, 2005

packetmantis posted:

In CoQ, is there a guaranteed location for each of the glotrot cure items? I've gotten to that point a couple of times, but on all of them I've died hunting around in the rear end-end of nowhere for oil or something.

Wait, that means you got through Golgotha, right? How the hell did you surive dropping down into the 3rd level of the chute-crab conveyor belt? That part confuses the hell out of me because three times now, each with increasingly stronger armor and more HP (last time I had 14 AV and 121 hp) I've broken through the chome walls on levels 1-2, stolen what I wanted, then without fail I jump down to level 3 and am told I've died. The message log just says I fell, and then an endless stream of "The chute crab hits but doesn't penetrate your armor! The chute crab hits you x3 for 2 damage! The chute crab hits but penetrate your armor!" until I'm dead. I can't tell if this is a bug, or if there's a longer drop to level 3 and I'm being stunned by the fall long enough to be poked to death. In fact now that I'm writing this I bet that's it, time to pop some rubbergum next time. Sigh.

Since I like talking about Qud: The tinkering system is awesome. At first I thought it was really crappy and gimped, then I thought you needed Psychometry for it to work, but now I've found how I personally enjoy the hell out of it:

Being a Watermerchant mutant. I tend to go Burrowing Claws/Carapace/Regen as a core, and then either no defects, or the Ravenous defect (Butchery solves your problems as long as you have the str to carry food) so that I can pick up either Night Vision/Sense Psychic/Telepathy or Mental Mirror. The claws and the water merchant part are core of the build, really; starting stats for me are 18 for all the physical stats, 20 int, and 16 Ego. Water merchant puts me at 18 ego, and comes with Snake Oiler which boosts ego by 4 for the purpose of bartering. By level 15, I have enough int (putting every point into int till then) to get Expert Disassemble, which means that all of the desert rifles and combat shotguns and chain pistols and such I've been accumulating in my Joppa chest can then be disassembled into their parts. The Water Merchant background means I've been flush with cash the whole time so I can stash excess loot in Joppa too.

The claws means that when I get to Grit Gate, I can burrow through the walls from Mafeo's area into the other two shop keepers who have lots of Tinkering schematics and restock when Mafeo does. You don't need to do that, since it's clearly an exploit of how villagers don't care if you destroy their homes, only if you take their +1 bandage of asswiping (which by the way I only found out because if you have Claws, you auto-attack walls when you bump into them, which should be removed so that you have to ctrl-move into walls to kill them). But it triples the number of tinker-schematic vendors you have from just Argy in Joppa. Even if you play legit with just Argy, there doesn't seem to be any limit to what level of data disks he carries.

Anyway, the point is that this is also making me think about being a True Man because Tinkers can get Night Vision Goggles and Force Bracelets, which give them the Night Vision and Force Bubble mutations. You have a near-infinite supply of money thanks to being a water merchant which translates into a near-infinite supply of bits, and checking back whenever they restock (I'm not totally sure on the timing, I think it's about a day) means you can eventually make your own chem cells or just buy them, and then recharge them with the bits you have. I stash my loot in Joppa in the chest that I don't own, just be careful to close the door before even opening the chest or the town will aggro you; it doesn't seem to reset, and assuming you're only traveling between places with recoilers, this means you can always teleport to Joppa and back if you need to pick up loot and it only costs you $10 to recharge the cells both times.

By the way, you can recharge cells at the tinker shops by pressing 'C' on the item you want to charge, then they tell you how much and ask for confirmation. Super useful since it means you can use all those sweet chem-cell fueled items and just recoil back to Joppa if need be (and other places once you find them).

I play this way as a melee and ranged fighter, using the named electric counterweighted longsword that the hunter in Goatman Town (I forget the name) always sells (and sadly he doesn't restock ever) with something in my offhand and a buckler on my offhand arm.

Also, I've seen it exactly one time, but there's a bio-scanner bracelet that tells you the exact HP and AV/DV values of your target. I died early in that game (I spawned with it as a tinker mutant before I realized the money from Water Merchant is way better) but I want dat item.

Basically, since I have no idea how to get past Golgotha, I've become a roving crazed tinker who butchers animals for food and (I only thought of it right before I died, ironically due to forgetting to turn on my force bracelet and shooting with my super-sweet carbine) building a stockpile of supplies to trek into the eastern ruins since I've never been there. I can reliably get to the mid 20s before I either try Golgotha and experience the spoiler above, or get killed doing something dumb.

Also: Are there any merchants besides Joppa, Grit Gate, the Goat Man Village, and the wandering dromad merchants?

Also also, if anyone plays Qud and wants the full detail of how I play this:
18 all physical stats/20 int/16 ego/rest in Willpower > Claws/Carapace/Regen > Water Merchant Background > Buy a carbide weapon from the Joppa merchant if he has one, or at least the best weapon he's got > Play as a melee fighter > Get the Joppa recoiler asap > use guns as you find them > imo take Rifles/Bows + Kickback and ideally Take Aim, this lets you kick people back if you use your 2-handed ranged weapon point blank (imo the shot-skills are worthless but Take Aim is nice if you have distance) > start picking up Tinker I-II, Disassemble, and Scavenger around level 9 > put points from levels 3/9/15 into Int so you're ready to take Expert Disassemble at 15. I get to Grit Gate once I have the recoiler and quest from Argy because there's lots of carbide loot on the way there. The carapace helps you with most everything as long as you run from dangerous things; regen + carapace means easy kiting. Once you're around level 6-9, maxing Carapace and Claws before regen (level 1 regen lasts you into the 20s, easy, whereas carapace and claws get WAY better at higher mutation levels) you can start hunting Equimaxes for 375 exp each, and then head east from Joppa into the jungle where you can find Goatman Village, the only village on the map there, which is surrounded by goat men (kind of hard to kill but also worth 375 exp each). I also recommend getting Tactics > Charge in there somewhere so you can charge Goatman Sowers before they through their explosive seeds at you, which do hurt this guy.

This is by no means a super-optimal build since Claws, Carapace, and Regen are all sort of crutches for early game survival, but it makes it easy to live long enough and build up enough of a stash to start scumming the shops whenever you feel like it in preparation for hitting level 15 and breaking down all your gear into bits.

Also: buy empty recoilers (or ones with cells if you need the cells) and stockpile them when you need to burn extra cash. They disassemble into a guaranteed pristine electronics + scrap. I'd also recommend turning on auto-disassemble scrap so you don't have to manually click it each time. There's no reason to not break down scrap doing this.

Particularly useful schematics:

Salve injector > requires a Dreadroot Tuber + the bits, cheap, and it's salve!
Solar cell > SUPER cheap, it takes a tier-2 bit + 2 crystals, and the tier-2 bit it needs is plentiful, you can let these recharge in the daytime for extended treks, but more importantly it's a money maker on top of meaning that you can have all the cells you need if shops aren't carrying them
Force bracelet > On-demand force bubble limited only by how many cells you have. Amazing.
Bio-scanner bracelet > If you find this, you are a lucky bastard since I've never seen the schematic. I'd make this for sure though, just to learn more about the game such as specific HP of monsters.
Grenades (HE and Freezing) > I guess they could all be useful, I prefer HE and freezing because you can get a goddamn grenade launcher so you can freeze > HE them and loot shouldn't be destroyed as it would with thermal or acid
HE Missile > Because you can get a rocket launcher if grenade launchers aren't badass enough for you.
Consumable of your choice > Beyond Salve injectors, if you like the injectors, pick up the data disks when you see them. Most require an additional non-bit component though; whatever the hell takes Young Ivory, for example, is hard as hell to make since Young Ivory is so rare (whereas the tubers for salves are easily harvested as long as you ctrl-attack every dreadroot you find).

Oh man, if Harvestry helps getting tinker components for injectors, I know where I might spend some skillpoints next game...

I'm going to try dual-chainpistols next game since I generally end up with thousands of rounds of unused ammunition, assuming I find the data disk for them again. I'm tempted to pass on Carapace but it's so useful, and there's so few other mutations to replace it with that I don't really see a point; I should ping unormal for that beta link.

E2: Woot, that new beta makes Burrowing Claws cost 2 instead of 3. Hello free Nightvision! Claws + Carapace + Regen + Nightvision without defects is going to rock so hard. Can't wait to get home and play now, drat.

Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 11, 2013

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe

S.T.C.A. posted:

Also: Are there any merchants besides Joppa, Grit Gate, the Goat Man Village, and the wandering dromad merchants?

Yes, there is at least one more guaranteed merchant.

Tempora Mutantur
Feb 22, 2005

Unormal posted:

Yes, there is at least one more guaranteed merchant.

Thanks! Since you're posting, would you mind confirming if we plop down a chest (or even just leave items on the floor) in a settlement, will anyone steal them/will they ever despawn? It seems like they stay there forever based on my testing, but I'm not sure if I'm just being lucky.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!
Well I'm soldiering on in Sil despite the lack of tiles, but now I need tips on builds and progressing and poo poo because I'm getting tired of being murdered by a hoard of orcs around 300 ft. every time.

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe

S.T.C.A. posted:

Thanks! Since you're posting, would you mind confirming if we plop down a chest (or even just leave items on the floor) in a settlement, will anyone steal them/will they ever despawn? It seems like they stay there forever based on my testing, but I'm not sure if I'm just being lucky.

Yes, it's safe in the current builds.

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013
Am I missing something? I found the goatfolk village, there's blood and bodies everywhere, I got the goatfolk parchment, but Mamon is nowhere to be found.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

I'm having a lot of trouble with Caves of Qud, the Villagers in Joppa randomly get hostile. They start of friendly but if I get close they might turn hostile. I know I'm not hitting them by accident since I can stand 3 tiles away and it still happens. I can't even trade with the merchan because he always turns hostile when I open the door, Am I missing something? I've even tried using telepathy to get the quest put they still turned hostile before I had a chance to leave. At first I thought they might be anti mutant bigots put it happens with true human characters as well.

..btt
Mar 26, 2008

voltron lion force posted:

Well I'm soldiering on in Sil despite the lack of tiles, but now I need tips on builds and progressing and poo poo because I'm getting tired of being murdered by a hoard of orcs around 300 ft. every time.

I don't do much better, but I can fairly reliably get to 500-600 before I gently caress up and die. I think you need to be a lot more ready to back off than most roguelikes, and make sure to pump attributes - due to the way combat works, getting a few extra points can vastly increase your damage output. Also, you'll probably want to switch around weapons, shields and even armour depending on who you're fighting - unlike some other roguelikes this generally only takes a turn and is relatively safe to do even in melee combat. It's well worth carrying around one of each bane weapon as you find them, and that can also give you some hints as to what monsters are nearby. Also, weapon weight is really important, as are the attack dice configuration. I don't fully understand it myself, so read the manual (again). For the early game it can be really helpful to take a couple of smithing levels and weaponsmith, and make a longsword and bastard sword with weight matching your strength. I have good success in the early game with 6 melee, 6 evasion, 2 smithing, then pumping melee and evasion as much as I can. I usually rush for the guaranteed forge on the second floor and make my swords and a digging implement.

Other not-so-obvious things that you've probably already worked out - there are strong anti-grind mechanics. If you've killed more than a few of a monster, it's probably best sneaking past them or running away since you'll get almost no experience for killing them. The more walls around you, the harder you are to detect, and if you don't move you get a +7 bonus to the detection roll. Even in heavy armour you're usually safe stood still in a corner. Monsters will wander off, and will leave the floor via the stairs.

Monsters tend to move far more intelligently than most other roguelikes, withdraw very early to make sure you don't get surrounded. This is almost always what kills me - I lose focus for a few turns and by that time I'm in a bad position and can't regain the tactical advantage before I'm overwhelmed. There are still some tricks you can play on the AI though - for melee units they won't follow you into a corridor... unless you're lowish on health or can duck around a corner. I'll often duck around a corner, wait a couple of turns then charge back toward them so I can fight them one at a time (though beware of later monsters like trolls that have crazy regen, they'll just keep shuffling around and healing up). Another trick for melee enemies is to stand in a corridor and repeatedly close the door. Eventually they'll get irritated and step into the doorway to stop you closing it, at which point you can fight them one at a time. Ranged enemies will not open a door while you're stood on the other side of it.

For archers, if you get them in a corridor, then move away from them diagonally, you can pull them into the doorway, then if you move to the wall they'll move away from the doorway. Pin them against the wall (rather than a corner) and they're an easy kill like so:

code:
  |..
o +..
  |..
  |.@    <- wait here (you don't have to close the door)

  |..
  o..    <- then when this happens
  |..
  |.@

  |o.
  '..
  |..
  |@.    <- move here (when there are several, close the door on your way past)
Also, shields are WAY better than evasion for ranged enemies. Consider equipping one to dance with archers even if you're using a two-hander for the orc hordes.

Lore-master works on enemies as well as gear - use far-look. Very worthwhile for your first few runs to work out what everything does. Also, monster memory is preserved if you reload your last game after you die instead of starting a new game.

I might be able to be a bit more specific if you explain what usually kills you.

..btt fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 11, 2013

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe

Hel posted:

I'm having a lot of trouble with Caves of Qud, the Villagers in Joppa randomly get hostile. They start of friendly but if I get close they might turn hostile. I know I'm not hitting them by accident since I can stand 3 tiles away and it still happens. I can't even trade with the merchan because he always turns hostile when I open the door, Am I missing something? I've even tried using telepathy to get the quest put they still turned hostile before I had a chance to leave. At first I thought they might be anti mutant bigots put it happens with true human characters as well.

That... should't happen. Try deleting the folder and reinstalling, you might have an old/bizzare/corrupt blueprints.xml.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!

..btt posted:

I might be able to be a bit more specific if you explain what usually kills you.

Its pretty much like you said about getting overwhelmed. I think I'm ok fighting off a few orcs, but then the scout shouts and three more come up the stairs and another two from the other rooms and I'm screwed. I've at least learned not to fight by the stairs :D

I can get to the first forge very reliably so I've kind of been planning my character around that. Usually I pump up smithing to like 10 or so and take armorsmithing and artistry and pimp myself out in some good armor. This works great for a few floors but then it seems like the enemies kind of catch up to me as far as power and I start to be in danger again. By that point I'm usually at a loss as to where to put my xp points, besides some of the no brainer melee/evasion abilities, and I end up either getting swarmed or slowly whittled down as I try to run.

My last death was totally my fault though. I just kept punching this violet slime all the while thinking "I wonder why my constitution is drained :downs:"

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe

packetmantis posted:

Am I missing something? I found the goatfolk village, there's blood and bodies everywhere, I got the goatfolk parchment, but Mamon is nowhere to be found.

Working as intended, for what it's worth. ;)

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
You can eat lembas bread to get rid of stat drain, I didn't notice this and was wondering why anyone would forge the gear that costs stats.

Tempora Mutantur
Feb 22, 2005

packetmantis posted:

Am I missing something? I found the goatfolk village, there's blood and bodies everywhere, I got the goatfolk parchment, but Mamon is nowhere to be found.

I think the whole mission is a reference to Heart of Darkness. Keep following the river. The parchment also has a clue to this, sorta, if you [R]ead it.

Hel posted:

I'm having a lot of trouble with Caves of Qud, the Villagers in Joppa randomly get hostile. They start of friendly but if I get close they might turn hostile. I know I'm not hitting them by accident since I can stand 3 tiles away and it still happens. I can't even trade with the merchan because he always turns hostile when I open the door, Am I missing something? I've even tried using telepathy to get the quest put they still turned hostile before I had a chance to leave. At first I thought they might be anti mutant bigots put it happens with true human characters as well.

Just to rule out the obvious: you aren't opening the chests before this, right? Because if you open the town chests with the doors open, the villagers aggro you immediately/when you see them. If you close the door and no one's inside, then it's fine. I ask because the first thing I do on every character is raid the three chests in huts that you can close the door on, the other chests are always in view of someone.

Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Sep 11, 2013

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!

Jeffrey posted:

You can eat lembas bread to get rid of stat drain, I didn't notice this and was wondering why anyone would forge the gear that costs stats.

Well poo poo that's good to know, I always make an elf so that'll be helpful. Food doesn't seem to be a huge issue in Sil, I rarely live long enough to get hungry. Then again I rarely find extra food.

I've tried out an archery build a few times but it kind of necessitates taking weaponsmith for the first forge doesn't it? Like I find melee weapons all day but bows are much more scarce and you want one asap to make those archery points useful.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

Unormal posted:

That... should't happen. Try deleting the folder and reinstalling, you might have an old/bizzare/corrupt blueprints.xml.

Yeah, I think I'll try that.

S.T.C.A. posted:


Just to rule out the obvious: you aren't opening the chests before this, right? Because if you open the town chests with the doors open, the villagers aggro you immediately/when you see them. If you close the door and no one's inside, then it's fine. I ask because the first thing I do on every character is raid the three chests in huts that you can close the door on, the other chests are always in view of someone.

No, it can happen when the only thing I've done is walk two tiles north. I can avoid it by waiting until noon and then start moving but I basically have to do that every time I enter the village.



edit: ok, after reinstalling it work like it should.

Hel fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 11, 2013

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

Unormal posted:

Working as intended, for what it's worth. ;)


S.T.C.A. posted:

I think the whole mission is a reference to Heart of Darkness. Keep following the river. The parchment also has a clue to this, sorta, if you [R]ead it.

poo poo, I knew it had to be something like that! Thanks guys. I was reading the parchment and I was all, "maybe he'll show up if I eat all these dead goat people?" Of course that didn't work, so I ended up just milling around the jungle for a while.

Dice Dice Baby
Aug 30, 2004
I like "faggots"

doctorfrog posted:

A good roguelike isn't one that hates you, it's one that just doesn't give a poo poo about you.

I think you perfectly synthesized what I feel the philosophy of what a roguelike should be


There's an interesting software called Necklace of the Eye (NotEye, http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye.php) which I didn't find posted in the OP.
It's a frontend for
  • Hydra Slayer
  • Brogue
  • nLarn
  • Rogue
  • DoomRL
  • Drakefire Chasm
  • NetHack
  • ADOM
  • Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
  • Frozen Depths
  • TopDog

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006

CoQ sounds so rad just from reading the Water Merchant build

omeg
Sep 3, 2012

Bouchacha posted:

CoQ sounds so rad just from reading the Water Merchant build

It is. I need to play it again, this time as a mutant. I've usually had success with praetorians before.

Bob NewSCART
Feb 1, 2012

Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

CoQ does sound fun as gently caress but the ASCII is basically unreadable to me.

Social Animal
Nov 1, 2005

Bob NewSCART posted:

CoQ does sound fun as gently caress but the ASCII is basically unreadable to me.

There is an option to make the floor tiles more like NetHack and less like Dwarf Fortress (that messy style.) Only way I can play it, turn it on and see if it helps.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
Heroes of loot just came out for android/ios. PC coming soon

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.orangepixel.dungeonfree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErjC9ueJC3I&t=2s

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006

I wish more trailers were as adorable.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

So can I not attack multiple times in combat with multiple arms in Qud? i wanted to swing around 4 battle axes like a crazy mutant barbarian but I only seem to attack with one in combat. :(

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe

Ibram Gaunt posted:

So can I not attack multiple times in combat with multiple arms in Qud? i wanted to swing around 4 battle axes like a crazy mutant barbarian but I only seem to attack with one in combat. :(

You certainly can, but you'll need to invest in things like the Dual Wield skill and leveling up your extra arm mutations to increase offhand and extra-hand attacks in order to start elevating your proc rate. They'll still all proc without those things, but the rate is pretty low to start with.

With enough proc-rate increasing you can even start proccing hands multiple times per attack.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Unormal posted:

You certainly can, but you'll need to invest in things like the Dual Wield skill and leveling up your extra arm mutations to increase offhand and extra-hand attacks in order to start elevating your proc rate. They'll still all proc without those things, but the rate is pretty low to start with.

With enough proc-rate increasing you can even start proccing hands multiple times per attack.

Ah, I see. Thanks. I've never had a character survive redrock yet so I don't know much about the mechanics admittedly. :shobon:

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe
One thing that's not obvious but that you can't really do with multiple arms is wield multiple shields for much effect. Since shields "proc" during an attack to give a brief bonus during that attack, only your best shield will proc. So generally you only need one shield, though there are corner cases where you might want more.

..btt
Mar 26, 2008

voltron lion force posted:

Well poo poo that's good to know, I always make an elf so that'll be helpful. Food doesn't seem to be a huge issue in Sil, I rarely live long enough to get hungry. Then again I rarely find extra food.

I've tried out an archery build a few times but it kind of necessitates taking weaponsmith for the first forge doesn't it? Like I find melee weapons all day but bows are much more scarce and you want one asap to make those archery points useful.

Food can certainly be an issue if you live long enough, or find the wrong cursed jewellery. Also, lembas only restores grace, purple moulds drain con.

Pumping smithing isn't so useful in the latest build since forge generation has been somewhat normalized - smithing really only comes into its own with artifice once you've found 5+ forges, it's not useful in the early game putting a lot of points in it. You'll survive far longer getting some combat or stealth.

Yes there are weapons all over, but don't underestimate having a weapon tuned to your strength. Try the build I mention, I bet you survive much longer (of course it's far from the only viable build). I usually go 3 4 4 3 in base stats. Gives you a decent chunk of health and higher than normal strength for good damage output.

For archery builds, I take versatility at turn 1, this gives you enough melee to survive until you find a bow without wasting early forge charges. You'll still need to melee at points, and it makes points in archery extremely efficient.

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01011001
Dec 26, 2012

..btt posted:

Also, weapon weight is really important, as are the attack dice configuration. I don't fully understand it myself, so read the manual (again).

I don't know your level of understanding but since I get this part of the game pretty well (despite being bad at the rest of the game) here's a mechanicspost.

-Your weapon starts with a number of dice, and a number of sides per die. So the guaranteed curved sword you start with has 2 dice with 5 sides to them, dealing 2-10 damage potentially at base (1d5 = 1-5 per die).
-You add extra sides to each die to that equal to your strength, up to the weapon's weight. So that 2d5 sword with 3 strength and 3 weight will be a 2d8 attack (2-16 damage). 4 strength and 3 weight is still 2d8 due to the weight not being enough to support you. For quick reference, each added side is like .5 damage extra per die on average.
-Your base critical value is 7 + weapon weight. For a 3-weight sword, this is 10. If your attack roll beats their evasion roll by this much, you get an extra die of damage. Multiple levels of surpassing that number (20, 30, etc) each add another die - so that 2d8 would go to 3d8, 4d8, etc. Finesse drops this to 6 + weight, Finesse+Subtlety drops this to 4 + weight.
-Special brands (Gondolin, Doriath) add an extra damage die for free if you hit against the appropriate target. So that 2d8 sword would be a 3d8 sword if it were Gondolin-branded and used on an orc.

Some takeaways:

-Every point of hit is a fairly important thing - besides the fact that you want to be connecting more than not, thanks to the crit system, there's no such thing as accuracy overkill.
-You want a weapon which has a weight that matches your strength, usually. The main exception is that if you're using Charge you might want a weapon with your strength + 3 in weight. A very small investment in early Smithing will set you up with this.
-The higher strength you have, the more you'll get out of high weapon dice count + high weight weapons like the bastard sword, greatsword, greataxe, and warhammer. The Power skill essentially counts every weapon as 1 weight higher and your strength as 1 correspondingly higher for melee and throwing, so if you're going with one of the big weapons due to high strength it's better in that circumstance.
-The spear/glaive/greatspear all have fairly high damage dice and low die counts - this can make their use a bit on the random side, but they'll be solid when branded or when critting.

It's a pretty cool system, all in all.

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